Russian act of war

[Waradlain]

Well, that escalated quickly. Didn't expect this tbh

Code:

The President pinned the cancellation on Russia's refusal to release Ukrainian Navy ships and sailors seized during a maritime confrontation between the two countries on Sunday.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/29/politics/donald-trump-cancel-vladimir-putin-meeting/index.html

You beat me to it. To be honest; I don't think that's the true reason why Trump cancelled the meeting; just a reasonable excuse.

I bet by February, Trump will be unable to leave the country due to the on-going investigations.

For me it looks like the real reason for canceling the meeting, but this is not Trump’s decision sure thing but his administration’s. There must have been more than "I don't like this situation" tweet.
But still ridiculous.

>>just a reasonable excuse.
Trump's reasonable excuse for Putin is the cancellation of two other meetings with Erdogan and someone else. He really doesn't wanna hurt his buddy.

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[bluefirecorp_]

https://www.concordmonitor.com/Ukraine-urges-NATO-to-deploy-ships-in-dispute-with-Russia-21861660

Will NATO actually act? Probably not, but hopefully.

Ukraine should invite in a ship parade in the Sea of Azov and grant permission to blow the fuck out of anything that stands in the way from doing the parade.

[mikeywith]

The United Nations was formed to solve problems like this without relying on war, but they're failing in the same way the League of Nations failed post WW1.

I thought the United Nations was formed to invade countries to force the removal of elected governments, and to promote the sale of US armaments.

I could not agree more.

[bluefirecorp_]

I hope the Russian troops get rekt by Ukraine soldiers. I'm willing to bet for each Ukrainian soldier defending their homeland, it'll take 5 Russians to kill.

Then again, looking at the KDR of American Commandos last time Russia attacked with their weak mercenaries, they got absolutely destroyed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/world/middleeast/american-commandos-russian-mercenaries-syria.html


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https://thehill.com/policy/international/419061-russia-trump-canceled-putin-meeting-over-domestic-political-situation

Ahahaha! Putin agrees with my theory. Shit.

[Ulyss]

The war has been going on for 4 years, if someone does not know.

[bluefirecorp_]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/12/03/ukraine-sends-troops-russian-border-amid-fears-invasion/


Defending their lands... let's see the Russian shills attack this action.

[byteball]

I hope the Russian troops get rekt by Ukraine soldiers. I'm willing to bet for each Ukrainian soldier defending their homeland, it'll take 5 Russians to kill.

Oh yeah.
For every 1 Donetsk and Lugansk militant killed, it was more like 10 Ukrainian soldiers lost in 2014-2015.
By international law, a Commander in Chief that faces such heavy losses has to capitulate to prevent further loss of population.
So after having lost around 40000 Poroshenko stopped his offensives.

Let me remind you that combat-related losses of Armed Forces of Russia, excluding various "private companies" and volunteers, are exactly 0 (zero) so far in and around Ukraine. So who has most to lose?

[bluefirecorp_]

I hope the Russian troops get rekt by Ukraine soldiers. I'm willing to bet for each Ukrainian soldier defending their homeland, it'll take 5 Russians to kill.

Oh yeah.
For every 1 Donetsk and Lugansk militant killed, it was more like 10 Ukrainian soldiers lost in 2014-2015.
By international law, a Commander in Chief that faces such heavy losses has to capitulate to prevent further loss of population.
So after having lost around 40000 Poroshenko stopped his offensives.

Let me remind you that combat-related losses of Armed Forces of Russia, excluding various "private companies" and volunteers, are exactly 0 (zero) so far in and around Ukraine. So who has most to lose?

Huh; didn't know Ukrainians were that shitty of fighters. I knew that Russian forces were really shitty compared to America after these events: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/world/middleeast/american-commandos-russian-mercenaries-syria.html


Perhaps America can start training Ukrainians on how to fight well.

[byteball]

Perhaps America can start training Ukrainians on how to fight well.

UK, US, Australia and Canada are doing that since 2013. It's not helping apparently.

I wasn't speaking of "mercenaries" by the way, those get paid by multinationals so it's difficult to say whose losses they are.

And why do you think Russia can afford 5:1 losses in 2018-2019 Ukrainian campaign? To achieve what?
Just because you are sure that was kind of losses it had in WWII?
Does Ukraine have, umm, natural resources, or vaults full of gold, or rich debtors around the world with collateral and hostages ensuring repayment?
Or is your reasoning "Russia will invade Ukraine because:.."
Putin will avenge fall of USSR that way;
Putin will prevent Ukraine being turned into a "shiny example of the capitalist way of development", like West Germany and South Korea after WWII? That turning into a shop window-pane has patently failed without him, during last 4 years.

Huh; didn't know Ukrainians were that shitty of fighters

That's actually irrelevant. They are not "defending homeland", they are sent to kill civilians of Donbass who revolted against Poroshenko's dictatorship.
And the dictator cannot admit that taxi drivers and coal miners fend off his armies counting in tens of thousands.
And cannot catch any Armed Forces from Russia, not a single one, not only him, but UN could not do that as well.

Also, a little known fact, when they were surrounded near Ilovaysk or Debaltsevo, they were given option to abandon their military vehicles, put down arms and get out alive. This was done in Syria all the time, and militants disarmed and escaped to retrain with Western instructors and get better weapons and ammunition, and assault Asad again with fresh zeal.
The Ukrainian commanders in that situation preferred to attempt to break out. So they valued vehicles more than human lives.

[bluefirecorp_]

Putin will prevent Ukraine being turned into a "shiny example of the capitalist way of development", like West Germany and South Korea after WWII? That turning into a shop window-pane has patently failed without him, during last 4 years.

I'm just going to drop this here; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index#2018_Human_Development_Index


For some reason you think life in Russia is better than life in South Korea? You're dead wrong.

Russia lists 49th. South Korea lists 22nd.

Germany lists 5th.


I'm fairly certain if "capitalist" west took over Ukraine, the quality of life would increase dramatically for the average Ukrainian. The Iron Curtain nation states were an entire failure, just like the USSR.

[byteball]

Russia lists 49th. South Korea lists 22nd.

Germany lists 5th.

That was my entire point, the joint resources of the "Free World" were used post-WWII to build up Bundesrepublik and S.Korea.
S.Korea was for China's admiration, while Western Germany was for Eastern Europe and USSR.
The West took Ukraine from USSR in 1991. So where are it's riches?

I'm fairly certain if "capitalist" west took over Ukraine, the quality of life would increase dramatically for the average Ukrainian. The Iron Curtain nation states were an entire failure, just like the USSR.

I'll tell you a secret: that would be the least of Putin's concerns. A huge, rich neighbour buying natural gas and petrol at world prices, without trying to cheat every January, would be always good.
Even rocket launching sites on land would be not as bad: a rocket launched from land can be intercepted not far from the launching site.
The scary thing was NATO occupation of Crimea and uncontrolled military ships traffic in Black Sea because of that: a rocket launched from a ship has a chance to succeed.
So seriously speaking, when Odessa will fall, this direction of attack on Russia can be abandoned all together. Either fall of Odessa, or Turkey becoming outwardly anti-Ango-Saxon.
But there are 4 or 5 more directions. Question is, can US engage all or most of them at once.

[bluefirecorp_]

I'll tell you a secret: that would be the least of Putin's concerns. A huge, rich neighbour buying natural gas and petrol at world prices, without trying to cheat every January, would be always good.
Even rocket launching sites on land would be not as bad: a rocket launched from land can be intercepted not far from the launching site.
The scary thing was NATO occupation of Crimea and uncontrolled military ships traffic in Black Sea because of that: a rocket launched from a ship has a chance to succeed.
So seriously speaking, when Odessa will fall, this direction of attack on Russia can be abandoned all together. Either fall of Odessa, or Turkey becoming outwardly anti-Ango-Saxon.
But there are 4 or 5 more directions. Question is, can US engage all or most of them at once.

Except what if Ukraine bought energy from the European-United States global power grid instead of importing gas/oil from Russia? That's cripple the Russian economy even more.

America has plenty of cruise missiles and plenty of ships in the black sea. Russia is very lucky to have unlawfully seized the Sea of Azov.

America has complete and utter sea and air superiority from a military perspective. There is no nation in this world that can stand against the mighty naval and air capacities of the United States.

The largest air fleet in the world is the United States air force.

Want to take a guess at the second largest air fleet? Well, it's actually the United State's navy. Rofl. Our sea fairing military branch could single-handily claim air superiority against any single nation.

[byteball]

Except what if Ukraine bought energy from the European-United States global power grid instead of importing gas/oil from Russia? That's cripple the Russian economy even more.

How losing a badly mannered and badly behaved customer who constantly reneges on payment obligations, spreads russophobia (better to say: trades in it) would cripple Russian economy, especially after Turkish stream already started?

European-United States global power grid - what is that? Buying Yamal gas on our Far North and delivering to Poland in tankers?
Or bringing Qatar gas and saying "it's American"?

To pass electricity on that hypothetical grid, one needs to generate it first.

2nd question: how Ukraine will pay for that energy, with it's deforestation selling all it's trees, or by selling even more russophobia and buying even more weapons?

Ukraine cannot be even properly privatized, because of Nazi batallions of far-right schizos roaming it freely. It's worse there than it was in the 90-ies in Russia.

America has complete and utter sea and air superiority from a military perspective. There is no nation in this world that can stand against the mighty naval and air capacities of the United States.

Except... Syria? How all this helped to overthrow Asad?

[bluefirecorp_]

Except what if Ukraine bought energy from the European-United States global power grid instead of importing gas/oil from Russia? That's cripple the Russian economy even more.

How losing a badly mannered and badly behaved customer who constantly reneges on payment obligations, spreads russophobia (better to say: trades in it) would cripple Russian economy, especially after Turkish stream already started?

European-United States global power grid - what is that? Buying Yamal gas on our Far North and delivering to Poland in tankers?
Or bringing Qatar gas and saying "it's American"?

HVDC grid between North Africa, Europe, and United States.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/the-smarter-grid/lets-build-a-global-power-grid

[bluefirecorp_]

http://uk.businessinsider.com/mi6-head-alex-younger-russia-wont-be-trusted-2018-12


Russian asshats. The whole world needs to treat that shithole like north korea, and stop all trade with them.

[glenntalbot]

Ukranian vessels were trespassing the waters of Russia so it was Ukrania that did an act of war. (I'm not pro Russia)Ukranian vessels were trespassing the waters of Russia so it was Ukrania that did an act of war. (I'm not pro Russia) I'm just saying that Ukrainians already lost some territories to Russia why try to recover it?

[bluefirecorp_]

Ukranian vessels were trespassing the waters of Russia so it was Ukrania that did an act of war. (I'm not pro Russia)Ukranian vessels were trespassing the waters of Russia so it was Ukrania that did an act of war. (I'm not pro Russia) I'm just saying that Ukrainians already lost some territories to Russia why try to recover it?

Uhhhh; Ukraine and Russia had a joint treaty over that water way. A country just can't lay claims to something covered by a treaty arbitrarily. The fact that Russia violated a treaty means that they're entirely at fault for this incident.

Where do you even get your newspropaganda from?

[TECSHARE]

Ukranian vessels were trespassing the waters of Russia so it was Ukrania that did an act of war. (I'm not pro Russia)Ukranian vessels were trespassing the waters of Russia so it was Ukrania that did an act of war. (I'm not pro Russia) I'm just saying that Ukrainians already lost some territories to Russia why try to recover it?

Uhhhh; Ukraine and Russia had a joint treaty over that water way. A country just can't lay claims to something covered by a treaty arbitrarily. The fact that Russia violated a treaty means that they're entirely at fault for this incident.

Where do you even get your newspropaganda from?

That's right! They have a joint treaty over a SHARED waterway, where at some point, the Ukrainian border ends and the Russian border begins. They crossed the border as defined in that agreement.

[bluefirecorp_]

Ukranian vessels were trespassing the waters of Russia so it was Ukrania that did an act of war. (I'm not pro Russia)Ukranian vessels were trespassing the waters of Russia so it was Ukrania that did an act of war. (I'm not pro Russia) I'm just saying that Ukrainians already lost some territories to Russia why try to recover it?

Uhhhh; Ukraine and Russia had a joint treaty over that water way. A country just can't lay claims to something covered by a treaty arbitrarily. The fact that Russia violated a treaty means that they're entirely at fault for this incident.

Where do you even get your newspropaganda from?

That's right! They have a joint treaty over a SHARED waterway, where at some point, the Ukrainian border ends and the Russian border begins. They crossed the border as defined in that agreement.

Where the hell do you get your propaganda from? Jesus christ; it was a joint water way that Russia illegally seized. Honestly, I don't see any country in the world ever entering in another treaty with Russia again -- because they obviously can't be trusted.

[glenntalbot]

[/quote]



Uhhhh; Ukraine and Russia had a joint treaty over that water way. A country just can't lay claims to something covered by a treaty arbitrarily. The fact that Russia violated a treaty means that they're entirely at fault for this incident.

Where do you even get your newspropaganda from?
[/quote]

Can you give us a link to that document or "treaty"... For me is like Mexicans trying to claim that the Gulf of Mexico and other territories lost to the U.S.A are theirs. There is nothing we can do about it.. peace out