MATHEMATICALLY Impossible for BITCOIN to "Come Back" - Why tell ppl lies?

[btc-room101]

Ok, lets do the math, today bitcoin is $68 BIlllion USA capitalization, yep that is a lot of money.

But in 2017 the crypt capitalization was north of $800 BUILLION USA, so where did 95% of the wealth go? Did it just 'evaporate'.

Now the morons who pump&dump btc on this site are saying, ... its coming back, but how?

In 2017 they pumped&dumped btc on CHINA, USA, Europe, africa, korea, singapore, aussie, ... everywhere on earth people used their credit-cards who had no money, to BUY BTC,

Now these people have lost all their money, they still OWE on this debt,

How in the  hell is it coming back??

Who in the hell is going to bring a NEW $800 BILLION USD back to the btc table??

From 2009 to 2014, ok btc bounced $1 to $400, that's fine, total capitilization was in the millions, and that was easy to replace, but now $800 billion USD is more than the GDP of most countrys,

Also the FED-RES is no longer doing QE, a lot of the money that made its way to BTC was that post 2008, the FED printed $4 Trillion USD and dumped it on the world, so a lot of that money, trickled to BTC, ...

BUT now the FED has quit QE, its no coming back.

There is NO way in hell, its infinitely impossible for bitcoin to go back to even $5k, in all probability it might stop at $1k, but its most likely to just keep drifting back to $400.

[1715052443]

1715052443

[1715052443]

1715052443

[bitcoinsc]

btc is manipulated. u can't tell if it's up or down. but u can tell is gold dumps and stocks dump. goes into cryptocurrency.  hopes and dreams. print money 3 years from now it goes to cryptocurrency. hopefully it hits 1 trillion. the longer we are here cryptocurrency evolves. blockchain gets smarter. log scale. network effect happen s

[arielbit]

this is a good argument.

i recommend selling your BTC's since we are going back to 400$ 

anyway if the "crypto sphere" technologies/adoptions/innovations will decay back to 2013 levels i fully agree.

[BitcoinHodler]

the only thing that your constant spam on bitcointalk on hourly basis is making me think is if you believed in 10% of the things you are posting here then why in the world are you even on this "bitcoin" forum wasting your time?

[arielbit]

the FED printed $4 Trillion USD and dumped it on the world

BTC market capitalization can be $10 Trillion USD if they print another $100 trillion USD for all i care

billion...trillion doesn't matter anymore...keep printing them until i can wipe my ass with it 

[STT]

BUT now the FED has quit QE, its no coming back.

That might be the cornerstone to your argument made of cardboard, the FED doesnt really determine anything in an economy by themselves.   They might fix interest rates at a certain point, but they need support to that point or in the end their actions are just press releases that would have no parallel to effective rates available.   I look at them like weather forecasters, could be useful resource of sorts if reflecting real factors.

   The QE program is not unwound, thats the important part to observing effects.   We're at the point where they stop putting coal in the steam engine, the train isnt going to stop as theres massive inertia in play and the buffers are Washington DC.   So far as I know they'll always raise the debt ceiling, always spend more and are unable to really stop QE imo because thats a very sharp painful stop.    QE is nowhere close to over when its such a large amount on the books still.    To really 'quit QE'  we need a fiscal budget in surplus and able to repurchase the debt.    Then you have brakes of some sort and can be reducing the debt, controlling rates even

tl;dr weak dollar decade >

[Zin-Zang]

Ok, lets do the math, today bitcoin is $68 BIlllion USA capitalization, yep that is a lot of money.

But in 2017 the crypt capitalization was north of $800 BUILLION USA, so where did 95% of the wealth go? Did it just 'evaporate'.

Now the morons who pump&dump btc on this site are saying, ... its coming back, but how?

In 2017 they pumped&dumped btc on CHINA, USA, Europe, africa, korea, singapore, aussie, ... everywhere on earth people used their credit-cards who had no money, to BUY BTC,

Now these people have lost all their money, they still OWE on this debt,

How in the  hell is it coming back??

Who in the hell is going to bring a NEW $800 BILLION USD back to the btc table??

From 2009 to 2014, ok btc bounced $1 to $400, that's fine, total capitilization was in the millions, and that was easy to replace, but now $800 billion USD is more than the GDP of most countrys,

Also the FED-RES is no longer doing QE, a lot of the money that made its way to BTC was that post 2008, the FED printed $4 Trillion USD and dumped it on the world, so a lot of that money, trickled to BTC, ...

BUT now the FED has quit QE, its no coming back.

There is NO way in hell, its infinitely impossible for bitcoin to go back to even $5k, in all probability it might stop at $1k, but its most likely to just keep drifting back to $400.

Good Points,

One Additional point is that people were using Credit Cards to purchase BTC during the rise to $20000,
The Banks have since blocked credit card purchases of BTC , allowing only debit card purchases.
This removes a major influx of money that BTC was seeing and it will not be coming back, as the banks are blocking it.  

FYI:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/petertchir/2018/02/04/are-americans-buying-bitcoin-on-credit/#3320fbce1e48
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/05/credit-card-ban-regulator-scrutiny-latest-challenges-for-bitcoin.html?&qsearchterm=BITCOIN%20CREDIT%20CARD%20PURCHASE

[arielbit]

Ok, lets do the math, today bitcoin is $68 BIlllion USA capitalization, yep that is a lot of money.

But in 2017 the crypt capitalization was north of $800 BUILLION USA, so where did 95% of the wealth go? Did it just 'evaporate'.

Now the morons who pump&dump btc on this site are saying, ... its coming back, but how?

In 2017 they pumped&dumped btc on CHINA, USA, Europe, africa, korea, singapore, aussie, ... everywhere on earth people used their credit-cards who had no money, to BUY BTC,

Now these people have lost all their money, they still OWE on this debt,

How in the  hell is it coming back??

Who in the hell is going to bring a NEW $800 BILLION USD back to the btc table??

From 2009 to 2014, ok btc bounced $1 to $400, that's fine, total capitilization was in the millions, and that was easy to replace, but now $800 billion USD is more than the GDP of most countrys,

Also the FED-RES is no longer doing QE, a lot of the money that made its way to BTC was that post 2008, the FED printed $4 Trillion USD and dumped it on the world, so a lot of that money, trickled to BTC, ...

BUT now the FED has quit QE, its no coming back.

There is NO way in hell, its infinitely impossible for bitcoin to go back to even $5k, in all probability it might stop at $1k, but its most likely to just keep drifting back to $400.

Good Points,

One Additional point is that people were using Credit Cards to purchase BTC during the rise to $20000,
The Banks have since blocked credit card purchases of BTC , allowing only debit card purchases.
This removes a major influx of money that BTC was seeing and it will not be coming back, as the banks are blocking it. 

hmmmm...no more credit purchases after BTC crashed but there are credit purchases during bubble...congratulations new debt slaves

to the people stupid enough to buy BTC on credit..learn your lesson.

meanwhile FUD is all around the media and forums to scare people specially those who bought on credit

[btc-room101]

Ok, lets do the math, today bitcoin is $68 BIlllion USA capitalization, yep that is a lot of money.

But in 2017 the crypt capitalization was north of $800 BUILLION USA, so where did 95% of the wealth go? Did it just 'evaporate'.

Now the morons who pump&dump btc on this site are saying, ... its coming back, but how?

In 2017 they pumped&dumped btc on CHINA, USA, Europe, africa, korea, singapore, aussie, ... everywhere on earth people used their credit-cards who had no money, to BUY BTC,

Now these people have lost all their money, they still OWE on this debt,

How in the  hell is it coming back??

Who in the hell is going to bring a NEW $800 BILLION USD back to the btc table??

From 2009 to 2014, ok btc bounced $1 to $400, that's fine, total capitilization was in the millions, and that was easy to replace, but now $800 billion USD is more than the GDP of most countrys,

Also the FED-RES is no longer doing QE, a lot of the money that made its way to BTC was that post 2008, the FED printed $4 Trillion USD and dumped it on the world, so a lot of that money, trickled to BTC, ...

BUT now the FED has quit QE, its no coming back.

There is NO way in hell, its infinitely impossible for bitcoin to go back to even $5k, in all probability it might stop at $1k, but its most likely to just keep drifting back to $400.

Good Points,

One Additional point is that people were using Credit Cards to purchase BTC during the rise to $20000,
The Banks have since blocked credit card purchases of BTC , allowing only debit card purchases.
This removes a major influx of money that BTC was seeing and it will not be coming back, as the banks are blocking it. 

hmmmm...no more credit purchases after BTC crashed but there are credit purchases during bubble...congratulations new debt slaves

to the people stupid enough to buy BTC on credit..learn your lesson.

meanwhile FUD is all around the media and forums to scare people specially those who bought on credit

The banks banned buying bitcoin on credit-cards last Dec 2017, that's largely the reason that price collapsed after that point, as new money quit flowing into the ponzi.

From a theoretical point of view, you never buy a 50/50 on margin ( debt ), in this case 100%, the 'kelly criterion' says to invest ZERO on a 50/50, because on on the second bet of 50/50 you can be subject to 'gamblers ruin' total loss. What the morons did is bet in a 50/50 game with OPM ( other peoples money ), now that means they're in deep shit.

Experts always exit a parabolic rise of any financial time-series, but in the case of the bitcoin ponzi morons were told to "HODL" all the way to the top of the parabolic rise ( which always end in collapse )

[emma46]

I don't really think that it is all true ,
We could always check the marketcap for the capitalization of crypto market,

[btc-room101]

Ok, lets do the math, today bitcoin is $68 BIlllion USA capitalization, yep that is a lot of money.

But in 2017 the crypt capitalization was north of $800 BUILLION USA, so where did 95% of the wealth go? Did it just 'evaporate'.

Now the morons who pump&dump btc on this site are saying, ... its coming back, but how?

In 2017 they pumped&dumped btc on CHINA, USA, Europe, africa, korea, singapore, aussie, ... everywhere on earth people used their credit-cards who had no money, to BUY BTC,

Now these people have lost all their money, they still OWE on this debt,

How in the  hell is it coming back??

Who in the hell is going to bring a NEW $800 BILLION USD back to the btc table??

From 2009 to 2014, ok btc bounced $1 to $400, that's fine, total capitilization was in the millions, and that was easy to replace, but now $800 billion USD is more than the GDP of most countrys,

Also the FED-RES is no longer doing QE, a lot of the money that made its way to BTC was that post 2008, the FED printed $4 Trillion USD and dumped it on the world, so a lot of that money, trickled to BTC, ...

BUT now the FED has quit QE, its no coming back.

There is NO way in hell, its infinitely impossible for bitcoin to go back to even $5k, in all probability it might stop at $1k, but its most likely to just keep drifting back to $400.

Good Points,

One Additional point is that people were using Credit Cards to purchase BTC during the rise to $20000,
The Banks have since blocked credit card purchases of BTC , allowing only debit card purchases.
This removes a major influx of money that BTC was seeing and it will not be coming back, as the banks are blocking it.  

hmmmm...no more credit purchases after BTC crashed but there are credit purchases during bubble...congratulations new debt slaves

to the people stupid enough to buy BTC on credit..learn your lesson.

meanwhile FUD is all around the media and forums to scare people specially those who bought on credit

I read that the banks were seeing as much as a -80% default on these credit-card purchases, seems that OUR HODL'r (MORONS), not only maxx'd their cards, but they max'd a bunch of them certain that BTC was going to the moon, and they got their friends to max the cards, ... so the banks closed the door, but its been very quiet on the defaults, I suspect that even though the default rate is astronomical, still on average credit-card purchase with BTC was less than 5% of aggregrate, but still that's a lot of non-performing loans, and its a certainty that anybody who buys bitcoin with a credit-card is a loser & flake.( in the mind of the book-keepers )

[davis196]

Ok, lets do the math, today bitcoin is $68 BIlllion USA capitalization, yep that is a lot of money.

But in 2017 the crypt capitalization was north of $800 BUILLION USA, so where did 95% of the wealth go? Did it just 'evaporate'.

Now the morons who pump&dump btc on this site are saying, ... its coming back, but how?

In 2017 they pumped&dumped btc on CHINA, USA, Europe, africa, korea, singapore, aussie, ... everywhere on earth people used their credit-cards who had no money, to BUY BTC,

Now these people have lost all their money, they still OWE on this debt,

How in the  hell is it coming back??

Who in the hell is going to bring a NEW $800 BILLION USD back to the btc table??

From 2009 to 2014, ok btc bounced $1 to $400, that's fine, total capitilization was in the millions, and that was easy to replace, but now $800 billion USD is more than the GDP of most countrys,

Also the FED-RES is no longer doing QE, a lot of the money that made its way to BTC was that post 2008, the FED printed $4 Trillion USD and dumped it on the world, so a lot of that money, trickled to BTC, ...

BUT now the FED has quit QE, its no coming back.

There is NO way in hell, its infinitely impossible for bitcoin to go back to even $5k, in all probability it might stop at $1k, but its most likely to just keep drifting back to $400.

I guess that you don't know how market capitalization works.Having a 800 billion USD market cap doesn't mean that there are 800 billion USD worth of cash in the market.Even 10 billion USD in cash can create a 800 billion market cap.It's all about circulation of the money.
The amounf of noobs,that will buy the hype will never end.It might decrease for a while,but it will never end.
FED will keep priniting money untill the end of days.A new stock market crisis is coming and they will start the printing machine again.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I don't understand the point here.  The total market capitalization has nothing to do with how much money is available--and you have to realize that the US dollar isn't the only currency in the world; it just so happens that when you state how much all the bitcoin available is worth, it's denominated in US dollars.  It doesn't matter if the total market cap exceeds all the dollars in the world. 

There have been single companies whose market caps have been greater than the GDPs of some of the smaller countries in the world.  So? 

And to those who say the bitcoin market is manipulated:  EVERYTHING is manipulated to some extent; it just depends on who is doing the manipulation.  If you think the game is rigged, don't play.  But there are enough bitcoin investors now such that there aren't too many whales who can single-handedly move the market at will.  Are there some?  Yes.  But that certainly does not mean you can't make money with bitcoin.

I wish more people took some basic to intermediate economics courses in college, because I tend to see a lot of ignorance and spouting of untruths around here.  The problem is that a lot of people are also ignorant and may listen to those who spout their own misunderstandings about how things work.  Ignorance then can spread like a virus.  Education is a vaccine for that, and I think more people should avail themselves of that inoculation.

[adaseb]

A few points.

The total market cap during a bubble is never accurate. Basically any ICO can launch at a very high valuation and it can easily have a 9 figure market cap. Given the amount of ICOs released during last years quarter it wouldn't surprise me if there were dozens and dozens of these ICOs with inflated market cap.

Second, the reason why Credit card companies banned crypto purchases was due to fraud. People were getting their computers hacked, bought bitcoin with someone's credit card and when it was approved by coinbase, they withdrew it. The banks had to take the hit since the "customer says he never heard of bitcoin and never purchased it".

I am pretty sure this was a very small percentage but to save the headache they just banned crypto purchases all together with CCs. Shortly afterwards you could still do purchases by a debit card instead of a credit card.

[btc78]

this is a good argument.

i recommend selling your BTC's since we are going back to 400$ 

anyway if the "crypto sphere" technologies/adoptions/innovations will decay back to 2013 levels i fully agree.

Will you do the honor of selling th bitcoin first?Lol but you are right,that if this is wayback 2013 OP must be on the right track,but we are in the near 2020 now and things changing same as the mentality of the investors,those whos in losses from the 2017 hype is just a part of the worldwide prospective investors so if you are asking when will be the another $800billion might come,then the answer is just wait and see because for sure if the popularity of crypto spreads the workd then you will see in sooner

[GreatBug]

Ok, lets do the math, today bitcoin is $68 BIlllion USA capitalization, yep that is a lot of money.

But in 2017 the crypt capitalization was north of $800 BUILLION USA, so where did 95% of the wealth go? Did it just 'evaporate'.

Now the morons who pump&dump btc on this site are saying, ... its coming back, but how?

In 2017 they pumped&dumped btc on CHINA, USA, Europe, africa, korea, singapore, aussie, ... everywhere on earth people used their credit-cards who had no money, to BUY BTC,

Now these people have lost all their money, they still OWE on this debt,

How in the  hell is it coming back??

Who in the hell is going to bring a NEW $800 BILLION USD back to the btc table??

From 2009 to 2014, ok btc bounced $1 to $400, that's fine, total capitilization was in the millions, and that was easy to replace, but now $800 billion USD is more than the GDP of most countrys,

Also the FED-RES is no longer doing QE, a lot of the money that made its way to BTC was that post 2008, the FED printed $4 Trillion USD and dumped it on the world, so a lot of that money, trickled to BTC, ...

BUT now the FED has quit QE, its no coming back.

There is NO way in hell, its infinitely impossible for bitcoin to go back to even $5k, in all probability it might stop at $1k, but its most likely to just keep drifting back to $400.

All your math is based only on that people have been using credit cards to invest in Bitcoin and pump the price. In my opinion, this assumption is wrong. Even if it was a large number of people, it was still less than 1% of the human population. If 2% of the population is in the next bubble, the next bubble will be two times bigger.

[gentlemand]

Ever heard of market cap? Ever realised it's a load of shit? Ever realise that 68 billion is pure fiction? Ever realise that 800 billion or whatever of actual dollars would push the market cap to tens of trillions?

Nope?

Do you want a hug?

Do you want to be trepanned?

Do you want a reacharound?

[el kaka22]

There is a lot of assumptions and wrong information are going on there.

You would have to be either desperate or hopeless to write something like this or even worse you would have to be ill mannered, the only other option is being incredibly ignorant.

Let's go one by one, when bitcoin was around 800 billion dollars and dropped to 68 billion dollars that does not mean there was 700+ billion dollars sold in bitcoin. That is not how marketcap works at all, you can say bitcoin worth $20k today, you can ban people from selling any under and the price will be 800 billion dollars once again without buying or selling a single bitcoin.

The point there is not how much was sold it is how much it worth, so without buying or selling 800+ billion dollars you can change the marketcap very easily. Even a person who buys 10 billion dollars worth of bitcoin today can make it go back to 20 thousand dollars (which they won't because it would be suicidal investment).

Also, there was a lot of credit card and purchases in the post which is not entirely true, it was semi-true because yes there was people like that but it doesn't mean ALL of the increase came from that at all, there were a lot of people who outright purchased some with their savings account money as well.

[Tytanowy Janusz]

Where is this math? In all post i didn't found anything being calculated.

Who in the hell is going to bring a NEW $800 BILLION USD back to the btc table??

If you think market needs $800 bil $ to come back to ath you simply don't know what marketcap is.

This scenario is unrealistic but will help you understand:

99 % of bitcoins are in hodler hands. None of them will ever sell. Now how many $ needs to be put into market to pump btc to 1 000 000$ ? Imagine the worst case scenario. Someone will put 1mil $ buy order and hold till he buys all remaining coins. 200 000 * 1 000 000 = 200 bil (its less than your 800 bil and we have 1 mil $ btc with marketcap 21 t $ and its maximum in this scenario. In real world all remaining 1% coins won't be dumped on him. Others will jump with hype helping him or even boosting price to 2 mil) - that's mathematically explained.

Next scenario:

Bitcoin is worth 20k $ marketcap is around 450 bil $ and is getting hacked by quantum computer giving hackers access to all bitcoins. How many $ will hackers be able to get out from market? 450 bil? Will they be able to sell all coins for 20k $ each? Or few min after hack everyone will know that and everyone close to computer will cancel buy orders and none will ever create new buy order. They will probably take maximum of 100 mil before bitcoin reaching 1 cent and marketcap equal to 200k $.

There is also another thing showing that you are wrong.

Almost every ICO supports bitcoin and ether (and majority of new coins was bought by those) sometimes litecoin, monero and others. But even ether litecoin monero was bought mostly by BTC during their ICO. That gives us strange circle of pumping. They are also traded and pumped to current price mostly by bitcoin (alt/btc pair).

Why is that important?

1- When you sell for example google shares for 10 mil$ you decries marketcap evaluated in $ pulling out $ from market - when you are selling EOS to BTC you are decreasing marketcap evaluated in $ without pulling out $. When you then sell bitcoin to $ to pull them out of market you decrease marketcap again !
2- imagine that scenario. All bitcoin coins have marketcap of 10 bil $. Than there is ETH ico and all coins was bought for 5 bil $ in bitcoin currency. Than we have EOS ico and all coins was bought for 3 bil $ in ETH. We have marketcap equal to 18 bil but only 10 bil cames from $ and 8 bil cames from strange circle of pumping (total markecap pumping). In real its not that black and white but i just wrote that overpainted picture to better explain my thoughts. Now lets w8 for few years to pump each other to current price.

Now imagine that some coins are still tradable only by bitcoin. It means that when btc/usd price is growing alt/usd is instantly too because its calculated through alt/btc and btc/usd.

[snipie]

the FED printed $4 Trillion USD and dumped it on the world

BTC market capitalization can be $10 Trillion USD if they print another $100 trillion USD for all i care

billion...trillion doesn't matter anymore...keep printing them until i can wipe my ass with it 

I assume reading that the Zimbabwean or the Venezuelan currency is as cheap as the wc paper. You can burn it also in the coldest days to warm yourself also 
Poor countries and poor people sadly 
Now bitcoin can come back from nowhere even from $3 like it always did and it will do it this time also.