Simple and undeniable proof that Bitcoin is a scam

[CryptoBull31]

Bitcoin is the most advanced value storing and transferring technology ever developed, making a sovereign store of value possible - no government or bank can censor your money - and it can be moved within minutes to any place on the planet, essentially making it a free alternative to offshore banking available to anyone. When you look at bitcoin as a technology within a certain socio-economic context it is obvious that bitcoin is greately underpriced, whether it is 3,000$ or 15,000$ for a bitcoin it is still underpriced.

[fxsurfer]

Monetary transactions are enabled by internet and miners equipment, not by Bitcoin.

The internet alone, by itself, does not enable monetary transactions.

What do you think pays for the mining infrastructure?

Transaction is an instance of buying or selling something. Of course, the internet alone does not enable the buying or selling of something, but what that has to do with the topic at hand?

Because you stated above that transactions are enabled by the internet and miners.

Obviously the internet by itself can't enable transactions, so in this case miners are required.

But what do you think pays for mining?

(spoiler alert: Bitcoin does. No native token, no mining, no permissionless monetary transactions via the internet)


To repeat: The utility of cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin is monetary transactions. Whether Bitcoin is overpriced or undervalued is a different question, of course. But if you accept that banks, credit card companies and money transmitters (and by extension their respective stocks and bonds) have utility, you also have to accept that cryptocurrencies do. Everything else is just cherry picking.

Ability to transfer something (money, bitcoin, text, picture or whatever) is indeed  - utility. But this ability belongs to the transferring system, and not to the thing that is transferred. Everything can be transferred via some transferring system but that doesn't mean everything has utility. Picture has utility because it is used by art lovers for the  fulfillment of their aesthetic senses. Car has utility because it is used for driving. Dollar has utility because it is used for borrowing goods and services from the general population and returning them back later. Hence, these items can be both - transferred and utilized. But bitcoin is just an empty spreadsheet entry, and as such it cannot be utilized by anyone anywhere, but only transferred.

[HeRetiK]

Ability to transfer something (money, bitcoin, text, picture or whatever) is indeed  - utility. But this ability belongs to the transferring system, and not the thing that is transferred. Everything can be transferred via some transferring system but that doesn't mean everything has utility. Bitcoin is a spreadsheet entry and it has zero utility.

Bitcoin the network can not function without Bitcoin the currency. These "spreadsheet entries" are what pays the miners, similar to how other "spreadsheet entries" pay bankers, marketers, developers, etc. These "spreadsheet entries" pay the transferring system. You can't have one without the other.

[SnapDown22]

I don't think Bitcoin is a scam, they used to scam people, yeah, but its not a scam.

Just listen to this guy and get all answers: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJWCJCWOxBYSi5DhCieLOLQ

what I know is that the scam from Bitcoin has been scanned a lot and I regret joining in at that time and I realized that it was a scam and I would not use telehgam again

[fxsurfer]

Ability to transfer something (money, bitcoin, text, picture or whatever) is indeed  - utility. But this ability belongs to the transferring system, and not the thing that is transferred. Everything can be transferred via some transferring system but that doesn't mean everything has utility. Bitcoin is a spreadsheet entry and it has zero utility.

Bitcoin the network can not function without Bitcoin the currency. These "spreadsheet entries" are what pays the miners, similar to how other "spreadsheet entries" pay bankers, marketers, developers, etc. These "spreadsheet entries" pay the transferring system. You can't have one without the other.

Of course, but the bottom line is this. "Spreadsheet entries" in the form of Dollar or Euro are created for the borrowing of goods and services from the general population and returning them back later. On the other hand, "spreadsheet entries" in the form of Bitcoin and Crypto are created for extracting goods and services from the general population without returning them back later. And that's the difference between a legitimate business and a scam.

[ecnalubma]

I think this is a ten year old debate, In my opinion bitcoin is not the real product but Blockchain technology is the real deal. Even Bitcoin will disappear the technology that it bring will change the whole concept of history, people dictates value of everything and sometimes even the most useless things becomes precious and valuable I think bitcoin is from those things.

[HeRetiK]

Of course, but the bottom line is this. "Spreadsheet entries" in the form of Dollar or Euro are created for the borrowing of goods and services from the general population and returning them back later. On the other hand, "spreadsheet entries" in the form of Bitcoin and Crypto are created for extracting goods and services from the general population without returning them back later. And that's the difference between a legitimate business and a scam.

If you are referring to the circular flow of income -- that applies to Bitcoin as well, not just fiat currencies.

You can get paid in Bitcoin for goods and services and you can in turn use Bitcoin to pay for goods and services yourself. You can buy mining hardware using Bitcoin, pay your electricty bill using bitcoins you mined and spend the remaining bitcoins on Pizzas or whatever else you need. Granted, there's friction with the classical banking system (ie. when converting to fiat) but if you stay within a closed circuit of crypto it's rather frictionless, especially globally speaking (anyone who ever sent money abroad will know, as well as anyone who ever ran a small online business with international customers).

[waitforme]

Do you think banks are always the biggest trap in the world? Altcoins are headquartered and officially operated. Why be scared and worried that it is a scam? You can see that the way and operation of Crypto are the same, trading activities depend on trading. I believe Bitcoin is not a scam.

[wdnj]

whatever anyone will tell bitcoin is not a scam but the system doing what bitcoin can be.
this limit the demand from the people from BTC uses.
there are more important thing than participating in a scam one.
all we need to have is the knowledge on it. if you dont anything then never invest!

[fxsurfer]

Of course, but the bottom line is this. "Spreadsheet entries" in the form of Dollar or Euro are created for the borrowing of goods and services from the general population and returning them back later. On the other hand, "spreadsheet entries" in the form of Bitcoin and Crypto are created for extracting goods and services from the general population without returning them back later. And that's the difference between a legitimate business and a scam.

If you are referring to the circular flow of income -- that applies to Bitcoin as well, not just fiat currencies.

You can get paid in Bitcoin for goods and services and you can in turn use Bitcoin to pay for goods and services yourself. You can buy mining hardware using Bitcoin, pay your electricty bill using bitcoins you mined and spend the remaining bitcoins on Pizzas or whatever else you need. Granted, there's friction with the classical banking system (ie. when converting to fiat) but if you stay within a closed circuit of crypto it's rather frictionless, especially globally speaking (anyone who ever sent money abroad will know, as well as anyone who ever ran a small online business with international customers).

No, I am referring to the fact that for every dollar that is in circulation, there is a borrower who was issued a loan and used loan created dollars to get(borrow) goods and services from the general population. For that reason he is legally obligated - by the loan contract (backed by collateral), to return dollars back to the issuer (bank), and in the process have less purchasing power for goods and services. That is how he "returns" borrowed goods and services back to the general population. On the other hand, bitcoin miner used bitcoins to extract dollars, goods and services from the general population, but unlike borrower, he has no obligation to return goods and services back to the general population. Thus, unlike Dollar,  Bitcoin is not debt instrument that reduces purchasing power of borrowers through the banking system. Hence, in the first instance we have: 'borrowing goods and services from the general population - returning goods and services back to the general population', which is legitimate. In the second instance we have "extracting goods and services from the general population", which is a scam.  

[blockoption]

What's the objective value of a secure triple ledger system with worldwide adoption?

Good question.

[Lochshire]

No, I am referring to the fact that for every dollar that is in circulation, there is a borrower who was issued a loan and used loan created dollars to get(borrow) goods and services from the general population. For that reason he is legally obligated - by the loan contract (backed by collateral), to return dollars back to the issuer (bank), and in the process have less purchasing power for goods and services. That is how he "returns" borrowed goods and services back to the general population. On the other hand, bitcoin miner used bitcoins to extract dollars, goods and services from the general population, but unlike borrower, he has no obligation to return goods and services back to the general population. Thus, unlike Dollar,  Bitcoin is not debt instrument that reduces purchasing power of borrowers through the banking system. Hence, in the first instance we have: 'borrowing goods and services from the general population - returning goods and services back to the general population', which is legitimate. In the second instance we have "extracting goods and services from the general population", which is a scam.

So your objection to Bitcoin is that it doesn't follow socialist style flow of funds and instead follows capitalist flow of funds?
Using this logic then paying with cash instead of credit or a loan would also be a scam as it follows the exact flow that Crypto does.

Every dollar in circulation is NOT the result of a loan. If you borrow money then it would be, but if you earn it then it is not a loan as you are free to keep it as long as you want and never spend it.

[GaPR]

I feel that this topic is published and maintained with a single purpose: - find the idiots who will now sell their BTC, at these prices.

[nutildah]

OP's long-winded post does not constitute "proof" of anything.

If you buy bitcoin just to HODL it and hope for a miracle, well, that's your decision. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy bitcoin. If you buy bitcoin to use it for what it was intended: an easy way to move currency on the internet and across borders, then you're not losing anything except from purchase and transaction fees.

I use BTC just about every day, for purchases, to send money to people, to buy other coins, to buy phone data, and then for recreational stuff like sports gambling. There's no authority telling me I should or have to buy bitcoin; I do it out of my own free will, just like everybody else.

Edit: I just saw this topic was created on Dec 3rd.

How can we do that for Bitcoin?

mining cost equilibrium is the bottom line value

its its cheaper to mine then buy people mine if its cheaper to buy than mine people buy.

so look for the most effiecient mining cost and you learn the bottom line mining cost which miners wont sell below
you soon learn the number of times the price went below bottomline mining costs ovr many years is negligable because people are not fooilish

Still feel the same way franky?

This theory is now officially out the window. Most miners are now mining at a loss.

[kalel18]

It depends upon situation how to transact with the bitcoin holder, and if you want a high price or negotiable price so be it buy if you want and make it a profitable. In that case you are the one how to hold your money how to use it and if bitcoin scam you blame your self because you chose to.

[gabmen]

Do you think banks are always the biggest trap in the world? Altcoins are headquartered and officially operated. Why be scared and worried that it is a scam? You can see that the way and operation of Crypto are the same, trading activities depend on trading. I believe Bitcoin is not a scam.

Well the so called "proofs" Can be seen in a lot of different perspectives. And people who against bitcoin may very well find a lot of these to draw others away from btc. But people who have been dealing with bitcoin for a long time now know that it's anything but a scam

[Krsps]

Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are here to stay. Money, any form of money is based on trust and Bitcoin's trust is growing by leaps and bounds, all the time.
This is just a partial list.

Bitcoin now accepted:
Cheap air
Expedia
Microsoft
Wikipedia
Overstock.com
Tiger direct.com
KFC
Subway Subs
Name cheap
Playboy
A.T.&T.
Starbucks
Hotels
You can buy gifts cards for

Amazon.com
K-mart
Home depot and hundreds of others business.
Video games
And now so many online stores and business from newspapers to charities, to real estate, to shop keepers restaurants, and growing...

https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin/who-accepts/

The fear is there because it is unregulated by the government. But most of this fear is  from the government itself, and their propaganda.

According to different reports you would have a hard time getting a government job, or even passing a security clearance if you own a cryptocurrency account.

https://www.stripes.com/news/us/bitcoin-a-shadowy-realm-as-us-weighs-security-clearances-1.529596

The governments are going to hold put as long as possible on legitimizing bitcoin and cryptocurrencies but they already have a foothold worldwide. It may change an dgo up and down but it's not going away..and has as much chance as being stable as any other money, because people and companies are putting their trust in it.

As far as being a scam and anybody's
brother's losing his life savings,  or anybody at all and losing it...that is tragic!  But hardly because it is a scam.
It's from bad luck, poor trimming, and bad judgment. Who would put their family at risk but gamblers? And you don't need bitcoin for that. Anybody can gamble and lose any kind of money.

[Anonylz]

I wouldn't say btc is a scam but highly manipulated yes,  someone that bought btc at $1000 won't see it from your own perspective, even though it is not very clear what determines the price of btc when it increases so much within a short period and then slow down or go way below, still can not regard it as scam.

[Baronets]

Sorry guys, but I haven't read all of the replies, but I would like to make a couple of comments.

Most financial instruments are scam(ish) designed for the benefit of the bankers, and not for the retail investors.

Mining has no relevance to the value of Bitcoin in my opinion. All of the Bitcoin that will ever exist have already been created. Mining for new blocks is relevant to the support of the coin transfer and registration infrastructure only. Bitcoin will continue after the last mining reward has been allocated.

The value of an item is determined by market forces ultimately, and this is why a wooden table constructed by me is worth less than a table constructed by a professional carpenter.

The creation of a cryptographic proof of work has added a new category to the range of virtual assets. Bitcoin is one of only a few coins that really do have a value as a virtual asset.

[nutildah]

Mining has no relevance to the value of Bitcoin in my opinion. All of the Bitcoin that will ever exist have already been created.

You sure about that?