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Question: You have an Active Node Full Time ?
24/7 - 20 (39.2%)
12/7 - 1 (2%)
A few hours a day - 4 (7.8%)
Never - 10 (19.6%)
In the future maybe - 10 (19.6%)
It is not of your interest - 6 (11.8%)
Total Voters: 51

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Author Topic: How Many Full Nodes Bitcoin Online ?  (Read 15686 times)
franky1
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January 01, 2019, 12:45:19 PM
 #101

Lightning is NOT a separate network. All coins transfered within those payment channels ARE Bitcoins deposited in a 2-for-2 multisig address that have their transactions recorded locally,

im literally laughing now.
all coins are bitcoin deposits...

hilarious
you do know LN can function without bitcoin..
respectfully please do some research properly outside the echo chamber of your buddy group

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January 01, 2019, 12:46:41 PM
Merited by infofront (1)
 #102

here we go again another poke at the bear from the same buddy group derailing the topic. but ill bite

WINDFURY take this as a respectful message
go actually research LN outside the scope of just asking your certain buddies.
i kind of doubt you even watched the video from the lightning developers themselves
as it has become very apparent that a certain group is becoming an echo chamber only wanting to promote the fluffy cloud and unicorn over promises of another network

if you think LN is the bitcoin network. ask yourself what N stands for in LN.. lightning is not abbreviated to BNF(bitcoin network feature).. LN is not a blockchain either. and its not something that will fail if no bitcoiner used it.

LN is not dependant on bitcoins network. it is a separate network for multiple coins to vault up and be pegged into
(the 12 decimal payments are the pegged tokens)
LN will continue to run without bitcoin.

by chainhash that is an identifier buzzword so that (lets call them) masternodes can monitor multiple chains. by knowing
which chain is which.
LN is not coded to be just a bitcoin feature. its not for just bitcoins benefit, its not to make bitcoin unique

by masternode i mean a node thats a fullnode of many blockchains not just 1
(which is comedy itself. "full node of just bitcoin will become too big" bitcoin cant cope.. but LN masternodes will be fine being full node of many chains)
its funny because if LN nodes can cope with 3+ chains then nodes can cope with 1chain.

meaning if people can be masternodes of many chains they can be fine with being it for just 1.. which counters the rhetoric of one network is 'too big')

as it has become very apparent that a certain group is becoming an echo chamber.

research eltoo factories. not with the fluffy unicorn mindset of finding buzzwords like "oh look they called it eltoo to it must be a L2 thing" (thats just sponsorship buzzwordatory games that many play to gain investment by throwing in the word bitcoin into everything. EG coinbase and circle do it. yet they are fiat businesses handling different currencies. not sole services aiming at serving bitcoin alone to make only bitcoin have unique offerings)

so respectfully
look beyond the unicorn buzzwords with a critical mindset, look behind the buzzword illusion, and find the realistic stuff.


now lets take factories
onchain                                  |   offchain
(1)user->factory(vault UTXO)  | (2)factory(vaultutxo)&factoryhub(12dec peg)
                                             |                       ->(3)factoryhub&user->(4a)user&partnerA
                                             |                                                      ->(4b)user&partnerB
                                             |                                                      -> (4c)user&partnerC
                                                                     ^                             ^
                                               each->is a step AWAY from a tx that holds a onchain UTXO


i know what your next thinking.. that partner C holds co-signature control of users initial state 2 and 3 for security..
but no. for "privacy" they dont want the factory to be part of a 3-of-3 multisig where factory(hub) sees every payment users and partners do. where it would then require factory to sign off on each state change of the channel
also user wont be able to open channels with partner A and partner B
as then states 2 and states 3 become 5-of-5 multisigs making things more complex

and partner C doesnt want 'user' to broadcast back to bitcoin easily. hense why when closing a channel 'user' has to go back to factory and factory then decides if something should be broadcast. factory would notify C if user gave factory a close request (all off chain) and 'user' only then gets to sign a (2) close state to get back to (1) if factory agrees

emphasis: user C wont get sign off control of 'users' 2,3 but would be presented with OFFCHAIN UNCONFIRMED listing of
1,2,3,4 .. purely to show taint. (requiring trust) that 'user' hasnt secretly given more of the (3) value to another channel
because C is trusting factory will notify C if 'user' was playing games in other channels with funds that are meant to be for the 4c channel.

the whole point of factories is to have the factoryhub(3) aggregate transactions(4) and re-release a non blockchain payments(3) so that user channels(4) dont need to broadcast to the network to close channels.
they simply adjust 12 decimal payments between 3 and 4 to close a channel and re-open another channel with either the same person or a different person
or then request closing the user/factory hub(3) channel. to then get to a 8 decimal state(2) that can be signed out and put back to a coin networks blockchain

yes fluffy unicorn crowd will spin the positives. of less utility requirement of bitcoins network
but learn the critical concern of such too less utility of bitcoins network

if you think you can walk into starbucks and buy a coffee where by your using a LN masternode.. then ill laugh at whichever unicorn buddy told you so.
users will end up with phone apps that rely and trust on a server(factory) to monitor the blockchain

the best analogy for you to understand is user channels are like electrum litewallets. that communicate to electrum servers. whereby the electrum server decides if it should relay the transactions to the bitcoin network.

we already had in this debate about the min fee issue of transactions not getting around and not put into mempools. and many people complain that if the fee's are not right then a tx isnt sent..
even things like bread wallet. if the transaction doesnt use segwit outputs they wont relay transactions

and yes
the factory(masternodes) will be the "severs are needed" making a network centralised" argument that they play on bitcoin.. funny thing is taking utility away from bitcoin, to avoid bitcoin being a "server for 1 chain" by
wait for it....
... using an alternative network of "server for 3+chains".......
its funny because is not giving people more control. its giving them less control by locking funds into such network that is going to be more centralised

ill word it differently
ln promoter: "bitcoin will become servers we need another network to reduce bitcoin utility to avoid this"
btc realist: "maintaining 1 chain? you want another network that maintains multiple coins"
ln promoter: "yes"
btc realist: "and these masternodes of LN how many chains will they maintain"
ln promoter: "3+, but shhhh we need to reduce bitcoin utility"
btc realist: "but LN then becomes a network of server nodes of +3 requirements"
ln promoter: "yes, but shhhh we need to reduce bitcoin utility"

again you may think that people can run up just a lightning node for just bitcoin. but lightning nodes are already being coded as masternodes that by default have code for monitoring bitcoin and litecoin (look at previous post that already has the litecoin chainhash in its codebase by default)

imagine it this way
99% of users will be phone app litewallets using factories
0.9% master users wanting to be factories to earn some income just downloading the compiled .exe as they are not tech savvi.
0.1% will be tech savvi devs that will play around and not be default masternodes but able to code their own single chain independent use nodes that dont use factories nor litewallet

and if you think you will be one of the popular factory nodes. well forget it. coinbase, circle will as they along with blockstream
have been given hundreds of millions in investment over the years and the investors want some ROI
(why do you think the gameplay of the NYA agreement happened with the 3 card trick(NYA,UASF,bilateral) in 2017 played out like it did)

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January 01, 2019, 12:53:03 PM
 #103

BTC core and it's uptime is like 20 hours a day.
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January 01, 2019, 01:15:55 PM
 #104

Lightning is NOT a separate network. All coins transfered within those payment channels ARE Bitcoins deposited in a 2-for-2 multisig address that have their transactions recorded locally,

im literally laughing now.
all coins are bitcoin deposits...

hilarious
you do know LN can function without bitcoin..
respectfully please do some research properly outside the echo chamber of your buddy group

I respect your patience. I ve already given up at the point where ppl believe a full node does not mine...

Anyway the LN buddy group is very limited and behaves like a gold - cult. It cannot grow very big as u can show with baby maths. So let them play, they wont listen a sec.

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January 01, 2019, 01:29:04 PM
 #105

BTC core and it's uptime is like 20 hours a day.

finally someone that wants to keep the topic on track
..
im a realist. so lets also look at the negative to atleast put things into prospective to have a fair balance

if you discount all the sybil nodes running on amazon, hertzner,digital ocean, ovh (>35%)
you will find the 35% of 99.9% uptime taken away. will make that 20 hour average far worse

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Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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January 01, 2019, 01:34:15 PM
Last edit: January 01, 2019, 01:44:54 PM by franky1
 #106

Anyway the LN buddy group is very limited and behaves like a gold - cult. It cannot grow very big as u can show with baby maths. So let them play, they wont listen a sec.

problem with the gold-cult of the 18th century who made profit from vaulting up gold.. is that them small groups took gold from people and the gold cultists became the banks of 21st century.

LN is the same business plan as 18th century, "dont play with gold its too 'weighted' play with co-managed accounts an unaudited promissory notes for convenience...

i still laugh at the 2016 LNconcept:18th century banks "dont worry all promissory notes ar 100% backed by gold"
i still laugh at the 2018 LNfactory:20th century banks "dont worry bank notes are convenient even if you cant get gold out easily"


the funny part is all these unicorns promoting LN buddy group(behaving LIKE gold-cult).. are people that wont be the actual factory CEO(bank owners) that become the actual "gold-cult"
the real bank owner "gold-cult" would be coinbase, blockstream, circle.. all subsidiaries of DCG.CO
they just think if they kiss blockstream ass, then they will get hired by the real playa's

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January 02, 2019, 02:57:47 PM
 #107

Results for December 2018 / How Many Full Nodes Bitcoin Online ?


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January 02, 2019, 11:30:07 PM
 #108

I once used a full node. I think it would be a good thing to use the full node again. I think I’ll do it soon.
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January 03, 2019, 02:49:14 PM
Last edit: January 04, 2019, 11:42:55 AM by VB1001
 #109

Happy Birthday 10th Bitcoin, 3/Jan/2019

Genesis Block 03/Jan/2009

Hash:

04ffff001d0104455468652054696d65732030332f4a616e2f32303039204368616e63656c6c6f

CoinBase
04ffff001d0104455468652054696d65732030332f4a616e2f32303039204368616e63656c6c6f7 2206f6e206272696e6b206f66207365636f6e64206261696c6f757420666f722062616e6b73
(decodificado) ��EThe Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks

https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/4a5e1e4baab89f3a32518a88c31bc87f618f76673e2cc77ab2127b7afdeda33b

"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks."




The Times 03/Jan/2019 Bitmex, 10th anniversary of Bitcoin, "ThanksSatoshi" is included in the Coinbase input.



Hash:

000000000000000000037e741045a99121918e6ee717108fc77ec40b7419a829

CoinBase
030d7608040b771a5c2f205468616e6b735361746f736869202f4254432e434f4d2ffabe6d6d2ce fdddb4341345a5f494751a87e59567f4ddc88488dfff0df7bfc7cf57c0f22010000000000000042 14622919ba000000000000
(decode)? v? w? \ / ThanksSatoshi /BTC.COM/ mm , CA4Z_IGQ ~YV?M ܈ H { | |?? B? b)?

https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/bd9d5c05d4f5e7256160f27a55678c3b8f0c38914c20c471b87832f46576c9a1?show_adv=true

https://twitter.com/BitMEXResearch/status/1080590401323450368/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1080590401323450368&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccn.com%2Fbitmex-thanks-satoshi-nakamoto-front-page-times-10-years-after-bitcoin-genesis-block%2F

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January 04, 2019, 12:09:49 PM
 #110

Lightning Network Graphics







https://twitter.com/richardchen39/status/1080988170471247872

Real Time Lightning Network Statistics

https://1ml.com/statistics


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January 04, 2019, 02:26:38 PM
Last edit: January 04, 2019, 03:39:32 PM by franky1
 #111

seeing as topic creator has meandered into the depths of LN.
and to conclude my point about LN's issues with bitcoin

especially with the "proof of keys" initiative. (people should care more about 100% ownership than no/co-controlled convenience)

(numbers are loose pencil calculated back of the envelope of bytes that go into the 1mb base)(i didnt count witness as they dont apply to the tx count limit)
(being very economical(i rounded down bytes) to prevent the fluffy pony crowd arguments)

5k nodes, 18k channels = ~3.6 channels per node

to continue, open the ~4 channels lets call that 330bytes 1 in 4 out
close channels 4 in 8 out lts call that 670bytes

so lets call each user 1000bytes per open and close (being very economical with numbers)

so each block is the equivalent of 1000 users data requirement for LN overall (if no one else uses the bitcoin network for pure bitcoin network usage)
you would thing, wow thats great 144,000 users a day (if no one else uses the bitcoin network for pure bitcoin network usage)
you would think, wow great thats 8million users wanting 2 months lockin. (if no one else uses the bitcoin network for pure bitcoin network usage)

but no

thats means if 8 million users all opened. realise they made a mistake and closed on same day. it would take 2 months to sort out the bottleneck(if no one else uses the bitcoin network for pure bitcoin network usage)

lets word it another way 144,000 users can enter and leave LN each day (if no one else uses the bitcoin network for pure bitcoin network usage)

see why the bitcoin network needs scaling even if LN is used

silly people think the solution to this is just to force people to not be allowed to lock funds up for 1 day. and instead mandate people lock funds up for 2weeks-2months
silly people think the solution to this is just to force people use factories to not be allowed to unlock funds and instead reopen offchain mandate people never to unlock funds unless they pay a factory a large fee

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January 13, 2019, 10:36:20 AM
 #112

Bitrefill LN

With Thor, users can purchase an empty channel (potentially also for their friends or business partners) with crypto. Users don’t need to put up any money in the payment channel themselves, while Bitrefill maintains the channel, funded on their end for 30 days. As such, you can immediately start accepting payments through Bitrefill’s channel to you.

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/bitrefill-channel-opening-service-makes-accepting-lightning-payments-easy/

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January 13, 2019, 11:18:41 AM
 #113

Bitrefill LN

With Thor, users can purchase an empty channel (potentially also for their friends or business partners) with crypto. Users don’t need to put up any money in the payment channel themselves, while Bitrefill maintains the channel, funded on their end for 30 days. As such, you can immediately start accepting payments through Bitrefill’s channel to you.

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/bitrefill-channel-opening-service-makes-accepting-lightning-payments-easy/

yep key words "purchase".. "users dont put payment in themselves"

imagine bitreill as a factory
imagine bitreill as fortknox
people give 0.10000000btc to bitrefill (8 decimal bitcoins). these get locked under bitrefills control

bitrefil then opens a channel for 30 days and puts its own(unconfirmed/unaudited) 12 decimal tx into it. which because its not broadcastable onchain (bitcoin network will reject 12 decimal). bitrefil are happy to say user gets 0.100000000000. as at the 30th day it going to be bitrefil that gets to close the channel and aggregate the value. as they are the controller of funding

what then happens is bitrefil charge the user to get back the real 8 decimal BTC via the user paying the onchain fee and a exit LN fee... or for no/low price they can renew a new channel

much like how banks handled gold a couple centuries ago with the 'golds too expensive to unvault. how about take these silver coins(atomic swap for LTC) or just reopen a bank account and get new crisp unaudited bank notes(12 decimal unconfirmed tx value in channel)

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January 14, 2019, 03:32:05 PM
 #114

Utreexo, sync Bitcoin Straight From Your Phone

Simply put, it addresses what is known as the UTXO set, or the code that gives information on whether a bitcoin has been spent.

Source > https://www.coindesk.com/this-scaling-tech-could-let-you-sync-bitcoin-straight-from-your-phone


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January 14, 2019, 05:11:02 PM
 #115

@franky1 I don't understand why you insist in the constant bashing and ridiculous ad hominem attacks against gmaxwell.

When someone resorts to personal attacks, it means he or she is out of arguments, and resorts to this in desperation for having lost the debate.

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January 14, 2019, 09:19:24 PM
Last edit: January 14, 2019, 10:12:37 PM by franky1
 #116

@franky1 I don't understand why you insist in the constant bashing and ridiculous ad hominem attacks against gmaxwell.

When someone resorts to personal attacks, it means he or she is out of arguments, and resorts to this in desperation for having lost the debate.

oh look more poking the bear.. ill bite, yet again..
but before i begin. i did try avoiding the pokes of the bear for the hypocritical point of what is wrote above in regards to ad-hom. where i tried to avoid derailing into persona comments unrelated to bitcoin full node issues.
but seeing as more than one person wants a response. ill give it.

i make points about how core devs are doing things that are taking people off the network. bitcoin is not some AI that self codes. yes i mention devs by name such as wuille lukeJr and gmax
that is not ad-hom. that is highlighting who is involved

i have never made a comment about gmaxwell personal attributes that had nothing to do with the topic. EG i do not meander into attacks about his beard or the way he walks down a sidewalk.

instead i talk about bitcoin issues caused by devs. and yes its those devs that cause issues should be mentioned.
the funny part is how instead of understanding the content of the issues such as how their code has got negative impact. they want to meander the topic into appearing as if its a personal attack.
they keep writing code. but then pretend to be powerless janitors that cant code. they themselves play the ad-hom game by changing bitcoin but whenever anyone highlights the changes. suddenly the commenter must be some personal attacker.

the buzzwords "ad-hom" is an old and repeated strategy the core devs keep falling back on as their way to avoid answering why they are coding what they code.
the funny part though is if you done a word count on insulting/vulgar words. you will find those who are in core friendly group are the ones that do more 'attacks'. but i do not care about their vulgar meanders. i just continue to highlight the issues about bitcoin. and let them circle their out-dated tactics of avoiding listening to the community.

sorry but devs are not the victims here. greg got well paid to stifle bitcoin between 2015-2017 and has enough income to live happily because of it.
if you think greg is not involved in a "roadmap". well here is the advert naming it
https://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-core/capacity-increases
and here is the roadmap itself. note the creator at the top
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-December/011865.html
what bitcoin has become is a network where:
if it doesnt follow cores roadmap, opposers are deemed not as a counter option. but as an attacker that needs to disappear.
devs prefer to have less people using the network
devs do not want bitcoin to be a unique success, as they are happy to program other networks and promote other networks and even promote their involvement of pushing counter options off the network

note. the false promotion
"been working on scalability for several years" (that was wrote in 2015 meaning they have ben scaling for years prior)
yet. satoshi in 2010 mentioned the 7tx/s number and so yea 2018-19 i questioned gmax about his "working on scaling BITCOINS SYSTEM" to show m one single day that out paces numbers known about since 2010, to show that scaling is actually occurring

oh and a further point about when Gmax shot himself in the foot with the example block of 12k+ Tx's before segwit. i knew about that in 2015. and do you know why i excluded it from the main conversation. because that block contains no signatures and as such, as a true full validating node. bypassing that block and auto passing it as good, without validating signatures. is a security risk.

do you think its good security for nodes to just pass blocks around without signatures and just treat the data as passable.. can you even try to consider the auditing/security risks. without diverting the topic to sound like it must be ok because you trust the devs that allow nodes to accept such a unvalidated set of tx

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January 20, 2019, 07:50:08 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #117

I understand the different opinions in the debate and it is good that readers see all the technical points, but it is also interesting to continue informing about the state of the network of nodes and how important it is for Bitcoin.

Bitcoin (BTC) Network Nodes Grow Up Over 10,000 After Difficult Times in 2018

The number of reachable nodes was 10214 with the largest number of them located in the United States. The U.S. accounts for 24.37% of the total of Bitcoin nodes around the world, equal to 2491. The U.S. is followed by Germany with 1949 reachable nodes (19.06%). France was located in the third place with 677 nodes or 6.62% of the total number of nodes around the world. The top 10 places include the Netherlands, China, Canada, the United Kingdom, Singapore, Russia and Japan.

Source >https://bitcoinexchangeguide.com/bitcoin-btc-network-nodes-grow-up-over-10000-after-difficult-times-in-2018/

I sincerely appreciate the participation of everyone in this thread of Full Nodes.

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February 02, 2019, 06:48:44 AM
Last edit: February 13, 2019, 03:13:34 PM by VB1001
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #118

Two very interesting articles.

- The first Taproot:

Taproot Is Coming: What It Is, and How It Will Benefit Bitcoin

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/taproot-coming-what-it-and-how-it-will-benefit-bitcoin/

- The second Graftroot:

How Delegating Signatures Allows for Near-Infinite Spending Variations

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/graftroot-how-delegating-signatures-allows-near-infinite-spending-variations/

In both articles there are direct links to the original proposals of the developers.


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March 08, 2019, 07:09:07 PM
 #119

https://twitter.com/lopp/status/1104088607000854528
I ran this survey about operating Bitcoin nodes 3 years ago; please fill it out if you have a moment so that we can see if sentiments have changed!
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScOopaaULcpVe0boWHKrvrP0XIj_G6ZodLrv73jO3HQDVfpQA/viewform

-might be interesting
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April 01, 2019, 01:28:54 PM
 #120

^
A very complete poll, It is very well made and the result in the impeccable presentation.
 
Cypherpunk movement UP

Thx.

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