A world without borders?

[Davidovic]

On one hand world with out boarders will be great. There won't be any wars, conflicts and etc., but on the other hand the incidence rate will rise and who knows where this will lead.

[1715549994]

1715549994

[fatnet]

the only borders, which should exist, are private property borders(while everything should be private, and ofc, no world goverment(no its not ancapistan)). only this borders dont violate anyone

[fatnet]

btw, if there are no state borders and there is world goverment, its a horrible system, cuz in this system you wont be able to get to another, less authoritarian jurisdiction (cuz there are no borders lol) from the world goverment's tyrany.
for example, the only country, which gave political refuge to edward snowdon was russia, if we would live in world without the borders, but with the world goverment snowdon would die

[Spendulus]

btw, if there are no state borders and there is world goverment, its a horrible system, cuz in this system you wont be able to get to another, less authoritarian jurisdiction (cuz there are no borders lol) from the world goverment's tyrany.
for example, the only country, which gave political refuge to edward snowdon was russia, if we would live in world without the borders, but with the world goverment snowdon would die

Okay, Russia gets to keep their borders. Places people are trying to MOVE OUT OF can keep their borders. Only places people want to MOVE INTO can't have borders.

[fatnet]

btw, if there are no state borders and there is world goverment, its a horrible system, cuz in this system you wont be able to get to another, less authoritarian jurisdiction (cuz there are no borders lol) from the world goverment's tyrany.
for example, the only country, which gave political refuge to edward snowdon was russia, if we would live in world without the borders, but with the world goverment snowdon would die

Okay, Russia gets to keep their borders. Places people are trying to MOVE OUT OF can keep their borders. Only places people want to MOVE INTO can't have borders.

russia was the only country snowdon moved into, all other countries didnt give him political refuge

[btcforthewin]

Labor costs- Without borders, there would be no place to hold people to cheap labor.  In that situation, the full cost of labor would have to be paid globally.  Even if you kept most borders but eliminated borders within the global south, it would be problematic.  In the current system, companies can force workers in thailand to eat the costs under the threat of moving elsewhere.  If Thailand doesn't like it, they can simply move to Vietnam.  Without borders between these countries, there would be nowhere to run and the companies would have to pay the true cost of labor.  

Environmental costs Where would we send our trash and pollution if there were no borders?  It is not a coincidence that the countries who benefit from pollution are not the countries who suffer the consequences of it.  We are consuming the environment without having to assume the costs of that consumption.  

Hmm, lets take a deeper look at your arguments.

Labour costs and environmental costs, they very often are the same. Garbage is sent to the locations where labour is cheap, in this way it can be sorted cheaply. Good example is Bangladesh and ship breakage.

I highly doubt that the main reason is economical one. Because cheap labor is geographically restricted. Again good example is India, there are not much options for people living there get to Europe or USA, because they just dont have the means to travel that far.

Argument for economical benefits without borders- most countries are trying to get trade deals with each other to overcome economical hurdles made of border restrictions.

[Sujoris]

Labor costs- Without borders, there would be no place to hold people to cheap labor.  In that situation, the full cost of labor would have to be paid globally.  Even if you kept most borders but eliminated borders within the global south, it would be problematic.  In the current system, companies can force workers in thailand to eat the costs under the threat of moving elsewhere.  If Thailand doesn't like it, they can simply move to Vietnam.  Without borders between these countries, there would be nowhere to run and the companies would have to pay the true cost of labor.  

Environmental costs Where would we send our trash and pollution if there were no borders?  It is not a coincidence that the countries who benefit from pollution are not the countries who suffer the consequences of it.  We are consuming the environment without having to assume the costs of that consumption.  

Hmm, lets take a deeper look at your arguments.

Labour costs and environmental costs, they very often are the same. Garbage is sent to the locations where labour is cheap, in this way it can be sorted cheaply. Good example is Bangladesh and ship breakage.

I highly doubt that the main reason is economical one. Because cheap labor is geographically restricted. Again good example is India, there are not much options for people living there get to Europe or USA, because they just dont have the means to travel that far.

Argument for economical benefits without borders- most countries are trying to get trade deals with each other to overcome economical hurdles made of border restrictions.

And that is the whole point.

If borders were abolished there would be a mass influx of cheap labor to the cities. City wide borders could pop up based on people's skills and the maximum number of people a city could support. I think the world would become more efficient that way. But you never know, evil finds its way to surface mysteriously often even in the most unlikely places.

[haseeb ahmed]

A dream which I think will never come true and the way world is going there will be more borders in future God save the world.

[Spendulus]

....you never know, evil finds its way to surface mysteriously often even in the most unlikely places.

Indeed, open borders is exactly free reign to evil.

[semobo]

A dream which I think will never come true and the way world is going there will be more borders in future God save the world.

God designed it,we are just acting on it.In few thousand years the current structure of the world will not be same so it might create more or less borders depends on where the plateau were moving.

[fauxLes]

No it will not work.

Our social, political and economic model is based around the nation state. Established in 1648. That was when we got rid of feudalism. And declared that those who recognize themselves to be a nation ought to govern themselves.

Until we overhaul and completely change the nation state concept there will be borders and boundaries.

[semobo]

No it will not work.

Our social, political and economic model is based around the nation state. Established in 1648. That was when we got rid of feudalism. And declared that those who recognize themselves to be a nation ought to govern themselves.

Until we overhaul and completely change the nation state concept there will be borders and boundaries.

Mankinf exist for thousands of year and the current system came before some hundred years before so why not it is possible? Only people need to change if they want to change something in this world and god diesn't create ay borders only we did.

[Astargath]

You know why it wont work? You know why communism doesn't work? Because of humans, humans are not good, we are selfish and we fuck up often. Those systems would work in theory if everyone was a decent person but in practice it is way different.

[coins4commies]

It is capitalism that makes people messed up.  It is scarcity mindset that makes people greedy.  People weren't greedy for hundreds of thousands of years.   Capitalist nature is not human nature but of course it is the current nature of the world.

[BADecker]

You know why it wont work? You know why communism doesn't work? Because of humans, humans are not good, we are selfish and we fuck up often. Those systems would work in theory if everyone was a decent person but in practice it is way different.

That's right!

If you put a border up around your husband/wife, because that person is yours, you have a border. Remove the border and see how you and your spouse feel about it after a while... sharing each other with who knows who, and anybody who happens to come around.

If you think you like this kind of idea, try it for a while. You will find that the novelty wears off quickly.

National borders are simply on a bigger border scale.

[iamhungry]

You know why it wont work? You know why communism doesn't work? Because of humans, humans are not good, we are selfish and we fuck up often. Those systems would work in theory if everyone was a decent person but in practice it is way different.

That's right!

If you put a border up around your husband/wife, because that person is yours, you have a border. Remove the border and see how you and your spouse feel about it after a while... sharing each other with who knows who, and anybody who happens to come around.

If you think you like this kind of idea, try it for a while. You will find that the novelty wears off quickly.

National borders are simply on a bigger border scale.

Of course, we all need our space (well at least I hope everyone else thinks so)

I don't think this is what he meant by open borders

[BADecker]

You know why it wont work? You know why communism doesn't work? Because of humans, humans are not good, we are selfish and we fuck up often. Those systems would work in theory if everyone was a decent person but in practice it is way different.

That's right!

If you put a border up around your husband/wife, because that person is yours, you have a border. Remove the border and see how you and your spouse feel about it after a while... sharing each other with who knows who, and anybody who happens to come around.

If you think you like this kind of idea, try it for a while. You will find that the novelty wears off quickly.

National borders are simply on a bigger border scale.

Of course, we all need our space (well at least I hope everyone else thinks so)

I don't think this is what he meant by open borders

True, this is not the kind of borders originally meant. But problems are similar with national borders. People of other nations bring in customs and ideals that might be totally against the way you want things done in your nation.

[btcforthewin]

And that is the whole point.

If borders were abolished there would be a mass influx of cheap labor to the cities. City wide borders could pop up based on people's skills and the maximum number of people a city could support. I think the world would become more efficient that way. But you never know, evil finds its way to surface mysteriously often even in the most unlikely places.

What is the whole point?

Economic migration is restricted by market conditions, if there is not enough work, people wont go there.
If the Journey is too far , people wont do it, because they wont have the means.

[Spendulus]

It is capitalism that makes people messed up.  It is scarcity mindset that makes people greedy.  People weren't greedy for hundreds of thousands of years.   Capitalist nature is not human nature but of course it is the current nature of the world.

You know that ... "People weren't greedy for hundreds of thousands of years..."

how do you know that?

what I know is the greed that you've displayed. There is no greed like that of communists, who want the people to give THEM all their goods, land and money.

[Sujoris]

It is capitalism that makes people messed up.  It is scarcity mindset that makes people greedy.  People weren't greedy for hundreds of thousands of years.   Capitalist nature is not human nature but of course it is the current nature of the world.

You know that ... "People weren't greedy for hundreds of thousands of years..."

how do you know that?

what I know is the greed that you've displayed. There is no greed like that of communists, who want the people to give THEM all their goods, land and money.

I actually agree with you on this. Greed is the very thing that drove the cavemen's society to hunt and gather and stockpile. If they weren't greedy, they wouldn't have survived. Greed is one of the fundamental driving forces of human civilization. And of all living things actually.