hugeblack (OP)
Legendary
Online
Activity: 2604
Merit: 3823
thechange.ltd - Exchange 250+ Coins With 0% Fees
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
December 17, 2018, 03:57:48 PM |
|
In the past, there have been concerns about money laundering taking place in the crypto community but there seems to be a new kind of scam happening in what is known as "Wash Trading". Where the exploiters/investors are buying and selling the same tokens in order to create an imaginary volume or improve the reputation of the platform or exaggerate the values of trading. According to this report[1], most of Okex’s volume was fake "only 11% was deemed as a real", coinbene was the worst "1% real". Based on this data over 80% of the CMC top 25 BTC pairs volume is wash traded. [1] https://www.blockchaintransparency.org/Wash Trading is a form of market manipulation in which an investor simultaneously sells and buys the same financial instruments to create misleading, artificial activity in the marketplace.
|
| | TheChange | | | | |
░░░░░░░░░░██▄ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███▄ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀███▀ ░░░░░░░░░░██▀ ░░░▄▄ ▄██▀ ███████████████ ▀██▄ ░░░▀▀ | | | | +250 COINS | | ..Crypto Exchange.. | │ | ▄▄▄▄ ▄▄▄███▀▀███▄▄▄ ▄█████▀▀░▄▄▄▄░▀▀█████▄ ██▀░▄▄▄████████▄▄▄░▀██ ██░████████████████░██ ██░████████████████░██ ██░▀██████████████▀░██ ██░▀████████████▀░██ ▀██░▀██████████▀░██▀ ▀██▄░▀██████▀░▄██▀ ▀██▄▄░▀▀░▄▄██▀ ▀▀██▄▄██▀▀ ▀▀▀▀ | | | │ | |
|
|
|
|
g-uid
Member
![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif)
Offline
Activity: 259
Merit: 18
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
December 17, 2018, 05:37:40 PM |
|
In the past, there have been concerns about money laundering taking place in the crypto community but there seems to be a new kind of scam happening in what is known as "Wash Trading".
It's most unfortunate to note that Wash Trading is not new at all, it was first banned in 1936! See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wash_tradeIf a rogue trader couples leveraged trading with Wash Trading I suspect you don't need much to manipulate a market. Regulated exchanges would force all players to adhere to these rules, which makes a better environment for all of us.
|
|
|
|
sorrysteve1
Full Member
![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif) ![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif)
Offline
Activity: 294
Merit: 107
WPP ENERGY - BACKED ASSET GREEN ENERGY TOKEN
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
December 17, 2018, 06:08:30 PM |
|
Having invested in to some altcoins that are on these exchanges I wish that they'd delist their token, similarly I wish that coinmarketcap and other such sites would stop listing them and recognizing their prices. It only further promotes them and allows more people to fall in to the trap of thinking it is legitimate.
|
﹏﹏﹋﹌﹌ WPP ENERGY ﹌﹌﹋﹏﹏
☆═══━┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈━═══☆
≈ WORLD POWER PRODUCTION ≈ █ █ █
|
|
|
g-uid
Member
![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif)
Offline
Activity: 259
Merit: 18
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
December 17, 2018, 07:18:45 PM |
|
Having invested in to some altcoins that are on these exchanges I wish that they'd delist their token, similarly I wish that coinmarketcap and other such sites would stop listing them and recognizing their prices. It only further promotes them and allows more people to fall in to the trap of thinking it is legitimate.
Believe it or not but CoinMarketCap mostly lists the supposed "good" players in the market. There are lots more bad players out there.
|
|
|
|
gentlemand
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2590
Merit: 3014
Welt Am Draht
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
December 17, 2018, 07:56:32 PM |
|
Obviously there's no way of knowing, but it's rather more important to know who's wash trading. If it's the actual customers then I'm not too bothered. That's what enough assholes do already.
If it's purely the exchanges themselves, and I'll guess most of the time it is, then that's much more odious.
|
|
|
|
exstasie
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1521
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
December 17, 2018, 08:16:39 PM |
|
In the past, there have been concerns about money laundering taking place in the crypto community but there seems to be a new kind of scam happening in what is known as "Wash Trading". Where the exploiters/investors are buying and selling the same tokens in order to create an imaginary volume or improve the reputation of the platform or exaggerate the values of trading. According to this report[1], most of Okex’s volume was fake "only 11% was deemed as a real", coinbene was the worst "1% real". Based on this data over 80% of the CMC top 25 BTC pairs volume is wash traded. It's been going on for a long time. Huobi was the first to use this kind of volume churning on a major level. If you load their chart on Bitcoinwisdom, you can see when it began in Q3 of 2015. OKcoin started the same shortly after, then it spread like wildfire to Chinese exchanges generally and the increasingly important futures exchanges (OKcoin and BitVC). In the 2017 bull run, Korean and Japanese exchanges were widely believed to have pumped their volume too. The practice is definitely used to varying degrees across many exchanges.
|
|
|
|
figmentofmyass
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1483
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
December 17, 2018, 09:23:36 PM |
|
Obviously there's no way of knowing, but it's rather more important to know who's wash trading. If it's the actual customers then I'm not too bothered. That's what enough assholes do already.
If it's purely the exchanges themselves, and I'll guess most of the time it is, then that's much more odious.
why is that? with volume pumping, i figure the exchanges are just trying to exaggerate volume and liquidity to attract more traders. some relatively innocuous algorithm that amplifies volumes without necessarily manipulating the market much (since everything is amplified). if traders are doing it, i assume their intention is always bad. rationally, there's no reason for traders to engage in that behavior unless they are trying to manipulate price.
|
|
|
|
gentlemand
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2590
Merit: 3014
Welt Am Draht
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
December 17, 2018, 09:46:58 PM |
|
why is that? with volume pumping, i figure the exchanges are just trying to exaggerate volume and liquidity to attract more traders. some relatively innocuous algorithm that amplifies volumes without necessarily manipulating the market much (since everything is amplified).
if traders are doing it, i assume their intention is always bad. rationally, there's no reason for traders to engage in that behavior unless they are trying to manipulate price.
If an exchange is willing to pump the shit out of their volumes then I'll also assume that they're willing to front run the shit out of their customers too. They're attracting customers by deception so I can't imagine the deception will stop there in many a case. I naturally assume traders themselves are out to fuck as many people as possible and their wash trading is just a part of that.
|
|
|
|
g-uid
Member
![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif)
Offline
Activity: 259
Merit: 18
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
December 17, 2018, 09:52:41 PM |
|
Obviously there's no way of knowing, but it's rather more important to know who's wash trading. If it's the actual customers then I'm not too bothered. That's what enough assholes do already.
If it's purely the exchanges themselves, and I'll guess most of the time it is, then that's much more odious.
why is that? with volume pumping, i figure the exchanges are just trying to exaggerate volume and liquidity to attract more traders. some relatively innocuous algorithm that amplifies volumes without necessarily manipulating the market much (since everything is amplified). if traders are doing it, i assume their intention is always bad. rationally, there's no reason for traders to engage in that behavior unless they are trying to manipulate price. It is most certainly the traders. Manipulating the price means they profit from the activity. Traders are in it for the profit, not for the altruistic win. It is within the interest of the exchanges to allow Wash Trading, or rather, not disallow or actively monitor for it since this activity is not yet prohibited via regulation. Exchanges are also in it to make a profit. If the traders engage in this behavior then not only do exchanges benefit from the fees derived from the aforementioned, but also the positive side effects from exaggerated volumes.
|
|
|
|
BitHodler
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1179
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
December 17, 2018, 10:53:09 PM |
|
If an exchange is willing to pump the shit out of their volumes then I'll also assume that they're willing to front run the shit out of their customers too. They're attracting customers by deception so I can't imagine the deception will stop there in many a case.
I think so too. It would actually shock me if exchanges didn't have their own 'market making' bots trade against their users with all the precious information from the main exchange itself. BitMEX is doing the same thing aside from them stating that they don't trade against their users with insider information. I find it very hard to believe that they don't do so, but hey, evidence or it didn't happen.... I can't wait for most of the current exchanges to be replaced by exchanges respecting all the laws within the jurisdiction they operate in. That's progress this market needs.
|
BSV is not the real Bcash. Bcash is the real Bcash.
|
|
|
dothebeats
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3724
Merit: 1354
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
December 18, 2018, 06:48:12 AM |
|
This issue has been around since Mt. Gox days, and I don't think it will really be addressed too soon no matter how many committees they setup to combat just that. Wash trading really is a nuisance on the market but then again they are somewhat crucial into changing the tides of the market sentiment (not that I support the idea, though.) Even in futures market, ones that are under keen eyes from the government can be plagued by such activities, so I'm not that shocked to learn that crypto exchanges still suffer from such activities.
|
|
|
|
tdrinker
Full Member
![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif) ![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif)
Offline
Activity: 276
Merit: 103
Join FlipNpik Telegram : t.me/flipnpikico
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
December 18, 2018, 12:16:41 PM |
|
Having watched the price difference on the heavily manipulated volume markets and those which are legit I think it's clearly traders looking to exploit others. The price tends to fluctuate over a few day span from above to below the true market value by around 20-30%. If they can get anyone to fill trades at these prices then they can go and dump on the other exchanges or just wait and then move the price downwards by all of their wash trading. Something needs to be done about it but it's not easy to fix. The best option is removing all 0 fee trading platforms.
|
|
|
|
davis196
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
December 18, 2018, 01:08:04 PM |
|
I guess we need more external regulation over the cryptocurrency exchange platforms.This type of scam just won't go away.Perhaps all new altcoins should be banned from listing on cryptocurrency trading platforms and the ICO token sales will have to pay a very high listing fee,in order to be listed.I don't know about any other solutions.KYC policies just won't work.
|
|
|
|
1Referee
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2170
Merit: 1427
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
December 18, 2018, 01:41:47 PM |
|
I can't wait for most of the current exchanges to be replaced by exchanges respecting all the laws within the jurisdiction they operate in. That's progress this market needs.
Same here, but wash trading won't ever be exterminated completely. It happens in every market. The difference is that crypto is such a kindergarten, that no one even cares to put effort into hiding how much wash trading activity there is here. In stock markets it's done by institutions using proxies, which makes it way harder for any regulator to figure out what's happening. It's really the smart (stock) market versus the dumb (crypto) market. We're dealing with amateurs here. The professional guys have been doing this for decades and know how to conveniently make their trades look as organic as possible. If we can point at certain exchanges for being wash trading candidates, regulators won't have much of a problem with it either, especially if they pull out their big guns and actively start to raid these exchanges.
|
|
|
|
kaisa
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
December 18, 2018, 01:47:57 PM |
|
I have guessed since the first entry into the market in 2015, trading volume is unpredictable even when conducting market tests to make double orders there will be a trading robot that executes the market. Almost all centralized markets do that, even though there are some decentralized markets that do the same.
|
|
|
|
raven7886
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1041
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
December 18, 2018, 04:35:48 PM |
|
I don't think this is neither illegal or even immoral. When the whole livelihood of your lives work depends on you doing wash trading so your volume look high that is still quite acceptable, add the fact that others do it too and you got yourself a no brainer.
Of course from the stats it looks like coinbase is making it way too frequently and they need to chill out a bit but when your wash trading is only 30% or so of your whole trading volume it makes sense. I wish we lived in a world where wash trading was not a thing and than when someone did it we could really go all out on them but when 90% of the market is doing the same thing the ones who do not do it really just either have high volume enough to not care or they are lying about not doing it.
|
|
|
|
sorrysteve1
Full Member
![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif) ![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif)
Offline
Activity: 294
Merit: 107
WPP ENERGY - BACKED ASSET GREEN ENERGY TOKEN
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
December 18, 2018, 07:34:51 PM |
|
Having invested in to some altcoins that are on these exchanges I wish that they'd delist their token, similarly I wish that coinmarketcap and other such sites would stop listing them and recognizing their prices. It only further promotes them and allows more people to fall in to the trap of thinking it is legitimate.
Believe it or not but CoinMarketCap mostly lists the supposed "good" players in the market. There are lots more bad players out there. Well, I believe they might claim that but obviously they don't do the best of jobs at it. It's so clear with many exchanges that the volume isn't legit. I guess the issue is that CMC don't know if it's traders or the exchange behind it and they can't punish the exchange for the actions of some traders.
|
﹏﹏﹋﹌﹌ WPP ENERGY ﹌﹌﹋﹏﹏
☆═══━┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈━═══☆
≈ WORLD POWER PRODUCTION ≈ █ █ █
|
|
|
tmfp
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1932
Merit: 1737
"Common rogue from Russia with a bare ass."
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
December 18, 2018, 07:46:35 PM |
|
No, it's not acceptable because "everyone does it" and it's not the traders: it's a deliberate fraud by the exchanges, as the report makes clear Listing Fees are Big Business
Based on information we’ve received from many tokens in the space, the average project spent over $50,000 this year in listing fees from exchanges on our Advisory List. This adds up to an estimated $100,000,000 stolen in 2018 from the crypto ecosystem.. and with over 50 exchanges wash trading over 95% of their volumes, this is a 500K a year scheme, with some exchanges making over one million dollars this year just from collecting these fees.
We advise any token project to contact us regarding any exchange requesting large listing fees, especially those on our Advisory List. Many of these exchanges exist solely to collect these fees while their bots run their exchanges.
|
Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Evidence
|
|
|
g-uid
Member
![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif)
Offline
Activity: 259
Merit: 18
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
December 18, 2018, 08:07:07 PM |
|
I don't think this is neither illegal or even immoral. When the whole livelihood of your lives work depends on you doing wash trading so your volume look high that is still quite acceptable, add the fact that others do it too and you got yourself a no brainer.
Are you trolling? Good one if you are, otherwise you are not making any sense. Here's why: it's fraud. Wash Trading is fraud. Anyone who has a livelihood dependent upon such activity is a fraud too.
|
|
|
|
|