Piracy

[Serge]

then go, do what you're good at, and quit talking things you don't understand...

continue try justifying stealing copies of work of others.  it's rather amusing although highly pathetic at the same time.

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[johnj]

then go, do what you're good at, and quit talking things you don't understand...

continue try justifying stealing copies of work of others.  it's rather amusing

Well gee serge, we couldn't do it w/o folks like you!

A+, wonderful service, would use pirate again.

[paraipan]

then go, do what you're good at, and quit talking things you don't understand...

continue try justifying stealing copies of work of others.  it's rather amusing

man, you don't get it do you...
who paid your schooling ? we all did, but you know that already...
what did you, supposedly, learn in your whole life ? a big part of all human knowledge, you obviously did not...
what you give us in return ? your intellectual "creations" based on our previous knowledge...
see where I'm getting at ?  

you can't build an "industry" on that and even try monetize the communications channel, discs, tape, mp3, whatever

[bitlane]

Perhaps it's time for our ISPs to dish out a few $$ back to the Establishment...similar to the Blank CD Tax ? (without raising our already high prices in the process.....lol)

Piracy, although free in concept, can in fact cost quite a bit to the person benefitting from it.

I personally pay about $150/month for a 100Mbit Unlimited Bandwidth/Unmonitored Internet Account, so even though it affords me the luxury of a few 1080p Bluray Rips per day......how are they FREE in the end ?

[Serge]

then go, do what you're good at, and quit talking things you don't understand...

continue try justifying stealing copies of work of others.  it's rather amusing

man, you don't get it do you...
who paid your schooling ? we all did, but you know that already...
what did you, supposedly, learn in your whole life ? a big part of all human knowledge, you obviously did not...
what you give us in return ? your intellectual "creations" based on our previous knowledge...
see where I'm getting at ?  

do I owe you anything? your self-entitlement doesn't know borders, does it? =)

[paraipan]

then go, do what you're good at, and quit talking things you don't understand...

continue try justifying stealing copies of work of others.  it's rather amusing

man, you don't get it do you...
who paid your schooling ? we all did, but you know that already...
what did you, supposedly, learn in your whole life ? a big part of all human knowledge, you obviously did not...
what you give us in return ? your intellectual "creations" based on our previous knowledge...
see where I'm getting at ?  

do I owe you anything? your self-entitlement doesn't know borders, does it? =)

you ow me nothing, you owe us a good laugh and a thread title change into something that doesn't put a "patch" on all of us arrr

[RandyFolds]

[Serge]

Perhaps it's time for our ISPs to dish out a few $$ back to the Establishment...similar to the Blank CD Tax ? (without raising our already high prices in the process.....lol)

Piracy, although free in concept, can in fact cost quite a bit to the person benefitting from it.

I personally pay about $150/month for a 100Mbit Unlimited Bandwidth/Unmonitored Internet Account, so even though it affords me the luxury of a few 1080p Bluray Rips per day......how are they FREE in the end ?

How does the cost of ISP benefit creator of the Blueray though ?

[paraipan]

Perhaps it's time for our ISPs to dish out a few $$ back to the Establishment...similar to the Blank CD Tax ? (without raising our already high prices in the process.....lol)

Piracy, although free in concept, can in fact cost quite a bit to the person benefitting from it.

I personally pay about $150/month for a 100Mbit Unlimited Bandwidth/Unmonitored Internet Account, so even though it affords me the luxury of a few 1080p Bluray Rips per day......how are they FREE in the end ?

+1 bitlane

lol @RandyFolds pirates indeed

[bitlane]

How does the cost of ISP benefit creator of the Blueray though ?

How does the cost of a blank CD benefit the musicians that get a 'tax' from it ?......ARE YOU KIDDING ?

[bitlane]

[paraipan]

[kiyote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LkWKvMCzqA - jack black talking about piracy.

please notice, that he is talking about incitement. what he says boils down to: no money -> no music.
THIS IS WRONG! because a real artist does care about his/hers art, not his wallet.

an artist should in my opinion, do it for the art, not the profit. of course the artist should be rewarded for his work.
an musician should hold concerts. but his record music, should be free.
i have a problem with paying for some that could easily be copied.
but i have no problem with going to a concert with a band. (except that im a rather poor student).

a concert can not be copied!

Okay, this is bullshit.  I'm a comedian and a comedy writer, and know a lot of actors and musicians, and they all want to get paid, because although they are doing what they love, at the end of the day, they still need to eat.

I personally creative commons everything I write, but that's because I have a career outside of writing, and I don't plan on making money off of it or doing it as my full time job.  But most of my friends have to work at shit jobs like waiting tables and clerks at law offices just to make ends meet, so they can do the thing that they love.

And you say, "Musicians should just do concerts!"  Concerts are one of the most grueling things a musician can do, months away from friends and family, traveling from unknown place to unknown place, and guess what?  Musicians already do them!  It's how they make ends meet to begin making their next album.

Your entitled attitude is astounding.  Maybe its because you're looking at that small percentage of musicians and actors who make a lot of money, and are forgetting about that 99.99% of them that are just figuring out how to get enough money to buy a few packs of ramen to eat. 

I will admit, I pirate a fair amount of stuff, but I also budget a certain amount of money each month to go back and buy the albums I like and will re-listen to.  If you're broke, I get it, I've been there, and it didn't stop me from downloading music, but quit with the entitlement shit.  It makes you look like an asshole.

dude! i play classical guitar, im not doing it for the money! im doing it for the music, because i think its fun!
the 99.99% aren't getting anything anyway.

im not talking about a world tourney. play for your community, play for fun, not money.

(i am the 99%, fuck you im know what im talking about.)

That's great, you have a hobby.

But you're condemning the vast majority of musicians from making a career of playing music.  They will always need to do something else.  No one becomes a musician for the money, just like no one becomes a teacher for the money either, but bills still need to get paid, and you're not only leeching off of the artists' hard work, but also claim that you're morally right to leech off of them, and are trying to encourage others to do the same.

Way to be an asshat. 

[payb.tc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LkWKvMCzqA - jack black talking about piracy.

please notice, that he is talking about incitement. what he says boils down to: no money -> no music.
THIS IS WRONG! because a real artist does care about his/hers art, not his wallet.

an artist should in my opinion, do it for the art, not the profit. of course the artist should be rewarded for his work.
an musician should hold concerts. but his record music, should be free.
i have a problem with paying for some that could easily be copied.
but i have no problem with going to a concert with a band. (except that im a rather poor student).

a concert can not be copied!

Okay, this is bullshit.  I'm a comedian and a comedy writer, and know a lot of actors and musicians, and they all want to get paid, because although they are doing what they love, at the end of the day, they still need to eat.

I personally creative commons everything I write, but that's because I have a career outside of writing, and I don't plan on making money off of it or doing it as my full time job.  But most of my friends have to work at shit jobs like waiting tables and clerks at law offices just to make ends meet, so they can do the thing that they love.

And you say, "Musicians should just do concerts!"  Concerts are one of the most grueling things a musician can do, months away from friends and family, traveling from unknown place to unknown place, and guess what?  Musicians already do them!  It's how they make ends meet to begin making their next album.

Your entitled attitude is astounding.  Maybe its because you're looking at that small percentage of musicians and actors who make a lot of money, and are forgetting about that 99.99% of them that are just figuring out how to get enough money to buy a few packs of ramen to eat.  

I will admit, I pirate a fair amount of stuff, but I also budget a certain amount of money each month to go back and buy the albums I like and will re-listen to.  If you're broke, I get it, I've been there, and it didn't stop me from downloading music, but quit with the entitlement shit.  It makes you look like an asshole.

this claim assumes people should have a right to make money from doing what they love instead of working 9-5 in a job they hate just like the rest of us. what makes musicians so special that they are exempt from the rat race?

i love romantic dinners and long walks on the beach. should i quit my job and start whinging about payment for it?

[payb.tc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LkWKvMCzqA - jack black talking about piracy.

please notice, that he is talking about incitement. what he says boils down to: no money -> no music.
THIS IS WRONG! because a real artist does care about his/hers art, not his wallet.

an artist should in my opinion, do it for the art, not the profit. of course the artist should be rewarded for his work.
an musician should hold concerts. but his record music, should be free.
i have a problem with paying for some that could easily be copied.
but i have no problem with going to a concert with a band. (except that im a rather poor student).

a concert can not be copied!

Okay, this is bullshit.  I'm a comedian and a comedy writer, and know a lot of actors and musicians, and they all want to get paid, because although they are doing what they love, at the end of the day, they still need to eat.

I personally creative commons everything I write, but that's because I have a career outside of writing, and I don't plan on making money off of it or doing it as my full time job.  But most of my friends have to work at shit jobs like waiting tables and clerks at law offices just to make ends meet, so they can do the thing that they love.

And you say, "Musicians should just do concerts!"  Concerts are one of the most grueling things a musician can do, months away from friends and family, traveling from unknown place to unknown place, and guess what?  Musicians already do them!  It's how they make ends meet to begin making their next album.

Your entitled attitude is astounding.  Maybe its because you're looking at that small percentage of musicians and actors who make a lot of money, and are forgetting about that 99.99% of them that are just figuring out how to get enough money to buy a few packs of ramen to eat. 

I will admit, I pirate a fair amount of stuff, but I also budget a certain amount of money each month to go back and buy the albums I like and will re-listen to.  If you're broke, I get it, I've been there, and it didn't stop me from downloading music, but quit with the entitlement shit.  It makes you look like an asshole.

dude! i play classical guitar, im not doing it for the money! im doing it for the music, because i think its fun!
the 99.99% aren't getting anything anyway.

im not talking about a world tourney. play for your community, play for fun, not money.

(i am the 99%, fuck you im know what im talking about.)

That's great, you have a hobby.

But you're condemning the vast majority of musicians from making a career of playing music.  They will always need to do something else.  No one becomes a musician for the money, just like no one becomes a teacher for the money either, but bills still need to get paid, and you're not only leeching off of the artists' hard work, but also claim that you're morally right to leech off of them, and are trying to encourage others to do the same.

Way to be an asshat. 

tough shit. 99% of the rest of us have to do something else (other than what they're passionate about), why not musicians?

[RandyFolds]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LkWKvMCzqA - jack black talking about piracy.

please notice, that he is talking about incitement. what he says boils down to: no money -> no music.
THIS IS WRONG! because a real artist does care about his/hers art, not his wallet.

an artist should in my opinion, do it for the art, not the profit. of course the artist should be rewarded for his work.
an musician should hold concerts. but his record music, should be free.
i have a problem with paying for some that could easily be copied.
but i have no problem with going to a concert with a band. (except that im a rather poor student).

a concert can not be copied!

Okay, this is bullshit.  I'm a comedian and a comedy writer, and know a lot of actors and musicians, and they all want to get paid, because although they are doing what they love, at the end of the day, they still need to eat.

I personally creative commons everything I write, but that's because I have a career outside of writing, and I don't plan on making money off of it or doing it as my full time job.  But most of my friends have to work at shit jobs like waiting tables and clerks at law offices just to make ends meet, so they can do the thing that they love.

And you say, "Musicians should just do concerts!"  Concerts are one of the most grueling things a musician can do, months away from friends and family, traveling from unknown place to unknown place, and guess what?  Musicians already do them!  It's how they make ends meet to begin making their next album.

Your entitled attitude is astounding.  Maybe its because you're looking at that small percentage of musicians and actors who make a lot of money, and are forgetting about that 99.99% of them that are just figuring out how to get enough money to buy a few packs of ramen to eat. 

I will admit, I pirate a fair amount of stuff, but I also budget a certain amount of money each month to go back and buy the albums I like and will re-listen to.  If you're broke, I get it, I've been there, and it didn't stop me from downloading music, but quit with the entitlement shit.  It makes you look like an asshole.

dude! i play classical guitar, im not doing it for the money! im doing it for the music, because i think its fun!
the 99.99% aren't getting anything anyway.

im not talking about a world tourney. play for your community, play for fun, not money.

(i am the 99%, fuck you im know what im talking about.)

That's great, you have a hobby.

But you're condemning the vast majority of musicians from making a career of playing music.  They will always need to do something else.  No one becomes a musician for the money, just like no one becomes a teacher for the money either, but bills still need to get paid, and you're not only leeching off of the artists' hard work, but also claim that you're morally right to leech off of them, and are trying to encourage others to do the same.

Way to be an asshat. 

tough shit. 99% of the rest of us have to do something else (other than what they're passionate about), why not musicians?

this times a million.

[kiyote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LkWKvMCzqA - jack black talking about piracy.

please notice, that he is talking about incitement. what he says boils down to: no money -> no music.
THIS IS WRONG! because a real artist does care about his/hers art, not his wallet.

an artist should in my opinion, do it for the art, not the profit. of course the artist should be rewarded for his work.
an musician should hold concerts. but his record music, should be free.
i have a problem with paying for some that could easily be copied.
but i have no problem with going to a concert with a band. (except that im a rather poor student).

a concert can not be copied!

Okay, this is bullshit.  I'm a comedian and a comedy writer, and know a lot of actors and musicians, and they all want to get paid, because although they are doing what they love, at the end of the day, they still need to eat.

I personally creative commons everything I write, but that's because I have a career outside of writing, and I don't plan on making money off of it or doing it as my full time job.  But most of my friends have to work at shit jobs like waiting tables and clerks at law offices just to make ends meet, so they can do the thing that they love.

And you say, "Musicians should just do concerts!"  Concerts are one of the most grueling things a musician can do, months away from friends and family, traveling from unknown place to unknown place, and guess what?  Musicians already do them!  It's how they make ends meet to begin making their next album.

Your entitled attitude is astounding.  Maybe its because you're looking at that small percentage of musicians and actors who make a lot of money, and are forgetting about that 99.99% of them that are just figuring out how to get enough money to buy a few packs of ramen to eat. 

I will admit, I pirate a fair amount of stuff, but I also budget a certain amount of money each month to go back and buy the albums I like and will re-listen to.  If you're broke, I get it, I've been there, and it didn't stop me from downloading music, but quit with the entitlement shit.  It makes you look like an asshole.

dude! i play classical guitar, im not doing it for the money! im doing it for the music, because i think its fun!
the 99.99% aren't getting anything anyway.

im not talking about a world tourney. play for your community, play for fun, not money.

(i am the 99%, fuck you im know what im talking about.)

That's great, you have a hobby.

But you're condemning the vast majority of musicians from making a career of playing music.  They will always need to do something else.  No one becomes a musician for the money, just like no one becomes a teacher for the money either, but bills still need to get paid, and you're not only leeching off of the artists' hard work, but also claim that you're morally right to leech off of them, and are trying to encourage others to do the same.

Way to be an asshat. 

tough shit. 99% of the rest of us have to do something else (other than what they're passionate about), why not musicians?

this times a million.

Okay, I get your argument now:  because you haven't found a way to get compensation for doing the things you love, you've gained the right to take from those who have. 

[phillipsjk]

guys supporting piracy, go pirate open source all you want if you like free so much - i won't say a word.   don't use any copyrighted material if you have no desire to pay for it - it is not made for you.

Here you fail to understand how FOSS software works. It is still under copyright. In fact, in many jurisdictions, copyright is automatic and the author is not able to renounce the copyright. In order to grant more freedoms than is traditionsally available under copyright law, the author releases the work under a license giving additional permission. One of the simplests licenses is the WTFPL.

One important thing to understand about permissive licenses is that if you disregard the license (for whatever reason), copyright law still applies with exemptions such "fair use" in the united states or "fair dealing" in commonwealth countries. IMO, the default copyright license still applies for proprietary software as well, even (especially) if you disregard the EULA. Since FOSS lincenses rely on copyright law, It is possible to pirate FOSS software. Typically, that involves distributing derivative works without releasing the source code.

On thing to watch out for is that some EULAs appear to be patent, rather than copyright licenses. One example of this is the Windows 7 EULA. It claims you agree to the license "by using the computer." Copyright laws  does not have this power, but stronger  patent law does. For example independent development is not a defence in patent disputes unless you can prove prior-art. Even if you can prove prior art, you are still liable for damages since granted patents enjoy a presumption of validity. For sufficiently complex software, it is probably trivial to get it to perform some kind of patented series of steps during its operation. In fact software patents are getting so ubiquitous, it is hard to write software avoiding them. To be safe, you would have to restrict yourself to 20 year old techniques.

The "would you copy a car" will be come a big issue in the comming century. The arguments for and against on both sides are exactly the same as for other things under copyright/patents/trademarks/integrated circuit topologies/ or database rights. Schlock Mercenary explains the end-game.

Back to the point:
People are social creatures. It is not enough to use some random peice of software, or watch some unknown movie. Due to network effects, we are generally expected to all use the same (proprietary) software, watch some portion of pop-culture, have a familiarity with the bible since it is referenced so often by other works, etc.

Copyright expires for a reason. As do patents. Trademarks don't expire because they exist for a different purpose: to prevent confusion in the marketplace.

I was serious when I said that ISP restrictions on copying restrict my ability to copy even if I have permission from the copyright holder. If you use certain protocols like bittorrent, you are presumed to be infringing copyright, despite the substantial non-infringing uses. When the ISP imposes bandwidth caps to get you to buy their "tripple play" (Internet, TV, Phone) bundle, it restricts my ability to author alternate Gnu/Lunix distros or participate in the Open Street Map project. Most residential ISPs restrict servers; meaning they are only selling you half an Internet connection (the IP protocol is inherently Peer to Peer). When I was shopping for a webhost, I was dismayed to learn that many of them are even more restrictive than ISPs (often exerting editorial control over your site).

Edit: Added Schlock Mercenary link, other minor corrections.

[RandyFolds]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LkWKvMCzqA - jack black talking about piracy.

please notice, that he is talking about incitement. what he says boils down to: no money -> no music.
THIS IS WRONG! because a real artist does care about his/hers art, not his wallet.

an artist should in my opinion, do it for the art, not the profit. of course the artist should be rewarded for his work.
an musician should hold concerts. but his record music, should be free.
i have a problem with paying for some that could easily be copied.
but i have no problem with going to a concert with a band. (except that im a rather poor student).

a concert can not be copied!

Okay, this is bullshit.  I'm a comedian and a comedy writer, and know a lot of actors and musicians, and they all want to get paid, because although they are doing what they love, at the end of the day, they still need to eat.

I personally creative commons everything I write, but that's because I have a career outside of writing, and I don't plan on making money off of it or doing it as my full time job.  But most of my friends have to work at shit jobs like waiting tables and clerks at law offices just to make ends meet, so they can do the thing that they love.

And you say, "Musicians should just do concerts!"  Concerts are one of the most grueling things a musician can do, months away from friends and family, traveling from unknown place to unknown place, and guess what?  Musicians already do them!  It's how they make ends meet to begin making their next album.

Your entitled attitude is astounding.  Maybe its because you're looking at that small percentage of musicians and actors who make a lot of money, and are forgetting about that 99.99% of them that are just figuring out how to get enough money to buy a few packs of ramen to eat. 

I will admit, I pirate a fair amount of stuff, but I also budget a certain amount of money each month to go back and buy the albums I like and will re-listen to.  If you're broke, I get it, I've been there, and it didn't stop me from downloading music, but quit with the entitlement shit.  It makes you look like an asshole.

dude! i play classical guitar, im not doing it for the money! im doing it for the music, because i think its fun!
the 99.99% aren't getting anything anyway.

im not talking about a world tourney. play for your community, play for fun, not money.

(i am the 99%, fuck you im know what im talking about.)

That's great, you have a hobby.

But you're condemning the vast majority of musicians from making a career of playing music.  They will always need to do something else.  No one becomes a musician for the money, just like no one becomes a teacher for the money either, but bills still need to get paid, and you're not only leeching off of the artists' hard work, but also claim that you're morally right to leech off of them, and are trying to encourage others to do the same.

Way to be an asshat. 

tough shit. 99% of the rest of us have to do something else (other than what they're passionate about), why not musicians?

this times a million.

Okay, I get your argument now:  because you haven't found a way to get compensation for doing the things you love, you've gained the right to take from those who have. 

Yeah, that's what we're implying.

Read the thread.

[Rassah]

I know a lot of artists who draw really well, and put their stuff up online for free. They then take comision requests that they charge money for which they use to live off of. The free art is an advertisement; a demonstration of their skill. The custom job is what they get paid for.  Musicians can, and often do, get paid the same way. They give their music out for free to advertise their skill, a radio station can "hire" their skill if it's good enough, then the radio station pays them to keep producing music while advertising supports them playing it to everyone else for free. Likewise, I keep hearing that big name musicians make mst of their money from actually doing work at concerts as opposed to CD sales.

Here's a question though. If someone was selling me a car, and telling me how it has really nice features, is very reliable, and is a lot of fun to drive, but not allowing me to see it, then when I pay, say, $20,000 for it (average car price), it turns out to be an old, beat up, stripped down piece of crap that only goes straight forward and barely moves, is it fair that I am not allowed to return it, and the sales guy is legally allowed to get away with it?