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Author Topic: Isn't this merit thing getting more monopolistic politics?  (Read 398 times)
Stedsm
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January 04, 2019, 02:37:29 PM
Merited by OgNasty (4), LoyceV (1), evakka (1)
 #1

The words I used in the subject above, have got a few more questions to ask:
- Are merits actually being circulated between those who really need it?
- Are they also helping out others through their sMerits?

There's a different sort of thinking I've come across - most people don't use their merits by not sharing them with those who deserve them.

Reason?!

Merits help others to rank up, mostly everyone here is just to earn a side income, and for most of them, it's a living if they are in a signature campaign. Just to stop others from being promoted to higher ranks so as to reduce competition and keep it low (with the fear of losing their own position in that campaign as few may not be confident enough of their capabilities of remaining in the same), they try their best not to share their merits ahead. But for your information, they're given only with the purpose to share on the basis of "Give & Take" tradition and keeping them to ourselves will be stupid and never be useful to us nor others. So, keep sharing merits and love to those users who really deserve those higher ranks we're at. Smiley

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January 04, 2019, 03:01:16 PM
Merited by suchmoon (4)
 #2

- Are merits actually being circulated between those who really need it?
Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't matter if the person needs it. What's matter if the person deserves it.

- Are they also helping out others through their sMerits?

There's a different sort of thinking I've come across - most people don't use their merits by not sharing them with those who deserve them.
There are probably a good number of people here who are not sending out their merits, but I don't think there's anything we can do. If their standards are just really high? Yea, nothing we can do. Content deservedness(for a lack of a better word), is hugely subjective. I personally intentionally lower my judgement slightly with people with lower ranks.

As for people who don't give out merit just to decrease the competition in signature campaigns though? I think that's quite farfetched. If there were people like that, they're probably a huge minority.

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January 04, 2019, 03:21:37 PM
Merited by OgNasty (2)
 #3

OP actually made a whole lot of sense,as I think there are users who hoard their Smerits for the very reason you've outlined,but they happen to be very few of them,and it should not affect a good poster from ranking up as their are a lot of merits sources and members who merit worthy posts.
For now everyone is left to do whatsoever they wish with their Smerits and I think it should be so,more reason the system introduced sources to avoid complaints from users finding it hard to rank up that user A or B is hoarding merits and not giving them out probably to reduce competition for their spot on signature campaigns
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January 04, 2019, 03:24:15 PM
Merited by OgNasty (1)
 #4

No system can be perfect but so far, since the merit introduction, the forum has taken another shape in respect to quality post.  Usually this type of topic are started by lower rank users complaining of not receiving merit but I'm glad you're a legendary rank user that means you truly want answers to your question instead of an attent to draw attention to yourself.

Back to your questions,
- Are merits actually being circulated between those who really need it?

Yes, the merits are been circulated between not just those  who truly need it but those who deserve the merits. For more info visit the recent merit stats board or keep an eye on this thread "[LOG] The ranked up members - Congratulations!"

- Are they also helping out others through their sMerits?
You mean the merit receivers? Well it's not an obligation to merit others so it's their choice but we have the merit source to fill-in those space for them and in the near future rules will be implemented to decay unused smerit.

 Although there are those who give them out, like
See Smerit as liabilities to myself and an Asset to others and give them away to deserving users immediately I get them.
and this topic starter "Giving 17 Newbie Members a Chance to Rank Up To J. Member" he started from 4 and now 17 newbies. I can't mention all but we have those who do so. .

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January 04, 2019, 03:29:34 PM
 #5

Can we get away from the whole concept of merits being awarded to members who need them to supplement their income? Merit should be awarded to encourage good posting, and not to provide an income for some semi-literate spammer who is promoting a scammy project.

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January 04, 2019, 03:34:34 PM
Merited by mjglqw (1)
 #6

<…>- Are merits actually being circulated between those who really need it?
If we narrow the term “need” to being useful in terms of ranking-up, then let’s start by looking at received merit distribution by rank:
Code:
rank                          EarnedMerit                   %
Administrator                 3195                          1,11%
Global Moderator              757                           ,26%
Donator                       1510                          ,52%
Founder                       1526                          ,53%
Staff                         4261                          1,48%
VIP                           383                           ,13%
Legendary                     52479                         18,17%
Hero Member                   33784                         11,7%
Sr. Member                    47463                         16,43%
Member                        60211                         20,85%
Full Member                   48454                         16,78%
Jr. Member                    24418                         8,45%
Newbie                        9548                          3,31%
Brand new                     823                           ,28%

Total                         288812                        100,%
Note: Data as of 28/12/2018 (currently updating the Merit Dashboard to include data right up to today).  

Arguably, some ranks do not require merit for ranking-up purposes: Administrator, Global Moderator, Donator, Founder, Staff, VIP and Legendary. That adds up to 22% of total currently awarded sMerit (64.111 sMerits).
Nevertheless, those ranks may require some earned merit in order to participate in campaigns (some top paying campaigns seem to require it), feel a certain level of recognition, and as a side effect redistribute the earned sMerit to others.

Quote
- Are they also helping out others through their sMerits?
I make the following numbers to be reasonably true:
 600.000      sMerits from the Initial Airdrop
-291.791    Sent sMerits (Merit Sources and Regular users – as of today)
+146.000    minimum organically generated (merit halvings first degree)
--------------------------------------------
454.209   Total unsent sMerits

Therefore 291.791 sMerits have been sent, but there could be something in the line of 450K unsent sMerit, mostly originated in the initial sMerit Airdrop. Now a lot of that could be related to accounts that are no longer active, do not care for the Merit System, or whatever other reason.

Quote
There's a different sort of thinking I've come across - most people don't use their merits by not sharing them with those who deserve them.
As stated above, the initial unspent sMerit airdrop is an incognita as to why there is still so much. I don’t think it is so much a question of it been hoarded per-se, but rather that there are many people for who the merit game is not attractive, and have no direct operative need for it themselves.

If we focus strictly on earned merit that has not been sent, I make it around 38k (see [TOP-200] Members who have a lot of earned sMerits).


Overall, I don’t see too much of an issue to earn a couple of merits for those that create decent enough content, but rather find that ranking-up speed is really slow for the vast majority in the mid-to-high ranks.

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January 04, 2019, 05:48:08 PM
Merited by OgNasty (1)
 #7

... mostly everyone here is just to earn a side income, and for most of them, it's a living if they are in a signature campaign.

That's why I don't give merits to members of signature campaigns. I do not want to encourage people to post garbage for money.

I also ignore members of signature campaigns so I never see their posts. As a result, I give away very few merits because 90% of the members are here trying to make money.



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January 04, 2019, 05:53:32 PM
 #8

Am glad this thread is open by a legendary member who don't need a merit cause he is already on the highest position in the forum before the introduction of the merit system, will it will not do you any good withholding your smerit because their are being generated just to be given to others who deserve it in other to encourage them for they hard works but this days it very difficult to earn merit.

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January 04, 2019, 05:58:11 PM
 #9

this is literally a best topic i have read so far, not saying because I need merit but the thing is people actually do this, they don't share Smerit because of the competition and this is also a reason why newbies with so many activities cannot participate in any campaigns or something. I personally think that rules should be changed or some actions should be taken and we need more kind people like you to run this forum as a family or in a friendly environment i would say. This is how we can take this forum on a high rank.
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January 04, 2019, 07:52:28 PM
 #10

this is literally a best topic i have read so far, not saying because I need merit but the thing is people actually do this, they don't share Smerit because of the competition and this is also a reason why newbies with so many activities cannot participate in any campaigns or something.

No mate, this is just an assumption.  As a scientist, I'll call it a hypotensis because it has not been proven to be true . Beside the reason we have newbies with many activities without merits is because they're either posting rubbish or spending more time in the wrong board.
Also we have giveaways threads that they can partake in that's if they feel there post are worth meriting so there isn't any excuse for not receiving merit.

We have regular post meriters, giveaways threads and merit source so if the so called newbies with many activities without merits truly want one they can get it.

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January 04, 2019, 08:18:34 PM
 #11

Am glad this thread is open by a legendary member who don't need a merit cause he is already on the highest position in the forum.....
Ranking up isn't actually the only purpose for a merit,though it happens to be a vital part and a reason for it.
But there are other reasons for a merit and one is to acknowledge that a post was wwell constructed by the OP and makes a whole lot of sense,and that recognition Is a good feeling irrespective of whether one is a legendary OT junior member,the only difference could be the feeling of the recipient,one probably has been earning merits in large amounts(L.member)so probably would not be over the heels excited as opposed to the other who might be(J member)

Earning merits also increase Smerits which affords one the opportunity to merit/acknowledege good posts with merits.
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January 04, 2019, 09:30:18 PM
 #12

There's a difference between those who 'need' it and those who 'deserve' it because they earned it. It's not creating a monopolistic politics just like what you're pointing because at the end of the day, each individual who has their own sMerits to give aren't being controlled by anyone to withhold their sMerits because they are ordered to; it's just personal preference or if someone really appreciate a post (note: merits aren't 'like' buttons that you have on social media sites.) There had been a lot of topics about merits and whatnot but I simply don't care as long as the post quality of this forum increases again. Giving sMerits shouldn't be mandatory but rather be given as a token of appreciation if something is actually worth the read or has given you new knowledge you previously knew nothing about.

 
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January 04, 2019, 10:53:31 PM
 #13

Can we get away from the whole concept of merits being awarded to members who need them to supplement their income? Merit should be awarded to encourage good posting, and not to provide an income for some semi-literate spammer who is promoting a scammy project.

The way dotthebeats said, merits should be taken as a token of appreciation and few members also said that there's a thin line between need and deserving, but then, you can't really deny the fact I mentioned here that merits are really being hoarded (yes, I mean it and I can see it as well) under the FUD of losing their position in the campaign they're enrolled in. There's a requirement now as well as higher ranks are being paid much well compared to lower ranks, and it's not necessary that all low rank members are posting garbage only (or spamming) and/or you can't call any/all of the projects here to be scam. I've only created this just for those newbies who come up and ask about merits (in the list of which few already deserved some merits on their posts but didn't get any and are waiting to be promoted to even Jr. Member rank) and for those who're not really interested in this merit "game" can buy the copper membership to use almost all the features of the forum.

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January 05, 2019, 07:12:58 AM
Merited by Jet Cash (1)
 #14

The OP has really brought our attention to an issue that has been there I will use this opportunity to thank merit sources and good will members for circulating there smerit to deserving members.
S
While some members are strict about keeping there smerit For some reason best known to them but IMO this is not helping the forum smerit can be in full sendable merit and not keepable merit.
And also it not alone high ranking members that can mandated to send merit every one who posses smerit can do so to deserving users.

Let's us be selfless in our act for the betterment of the forum

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January 05, 2019, 10:58:00 AM
Last edit: January 05, 2019, 12:15:13 PM by LoyceV
 #15

It doesn't matter if the person needs it. What's matter if the person deserves it.
I used to not care whether someone "needs" it or not. Until I read this:
I agree with this approach. I considered giving merit proportional to activity, but I decided not to because doing so would probably give far more undeserved merit than deserved merit in total. But undoubtedly some people got screwed by this, and if they have decent posts, by all means, give them the 250 or 500 merit that they need to rank-up.
Of course they still need to deserve it, but if I stumble upon a user who has decent posts and needs a certain amount of Merit to go up in rank, I'll give him the Merit needed.

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January 05, 2019, 11:21:34 AM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #16

It doesn't matter if the person needs it. What's matter if the person deserves it.
I used to not care whether someone "needs" it or not. Until I read this:
I agree with this approach. I considered giving merit proportional to activity, but I decided not to because doing so would probably give far more undeserved merit than deserved merit in total. But undoubtedly some people got screwed by this, and if they have decent posts, by all means, give them the 250 or 500 merit that they need to rank-up.
Of course they still need to deserve it, but if I stumble upon a user who has decent posts and needs a certain amount of Merit to go in rank, I'll give him the Merit needed.

Oh definitely! I tend to have lower standards when giving merits to lower-ranked users. Most of the time, the posts doesn't even need to be sort of helpful; as long as the post contributes decently. I also give merit to people who ask questions, as long as it does make sense and it's not those typical questions like "when price increase?", "what is the best exchange?" and such.

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January 05, 2019, 12:09:03 PM
Merited by Welsh (5), Kakmakr (1), LoyceV (1)
 #17

<…>
That’s the way I see it. As I’ve stated a couple of times recently, in my opinion, there doesn’t seem to be much of an issue with merits in terms of earning a few (for those that really set their mind and fat/mid/thin fingers to the task), but rather with earning enough to make ranking pace become an incentive and not a deterrent for those that, let’s use a recent commonly repeated expression here, are “net positive”.

Those that excel is some way or other have no real issue with ranking speed, and those that create crap are never going to rank-up, but there are many people in between, that are being merited, but whose ranking-up speed is pretty slow (a person who makes decent contributions should earn an average of 1 merit per day in order to rank-up at the same rate as before – activity aside).

With nearly a year into the Merit system, we’ve got:
•   5 New Legendries (from Hero)
•   24 New Heroes (from Sr. Member and Full Member)
•   83 Sr. Members (from Full Member, Member and Old Era Newbie)
•   153 Full Members (from Member, New Era Newbies and Old Era Newbies)
•   3.028 Members (from New Era Newbies and Old Era Newbies)
•   9.164 Jr. Members (from New Era Newbies and Old Era Newbies)

But the ranking-up pipeline looks like this … :
Code:
CurrentRank                   segment                                                     nUsers
Hero Member                   0. Being considered for Legendary                           80 (they have the minimum activity of the range, and most of the merit from the airdrop)
Hero Member                   1. Could have ranked up to Legendary, lacking Merit         616
Hero Member                   2. Could have ranked up to Legendary, lacking Activity      2
Hero Member                   3. Soon may rank up to Legendary                            3
Hero Member                   4. Not enough activity nor Merit to rank up to Legendary    488
Sr. Member                    1. Could have ranked up to Hero Member, lacking Merit       1137
Sr. Member                    2. Could have ranked up to Hero Member, lacking Activity    12
Sr. Member                    3. Soon may rank up to Hero Member                          5
Sr. Member                    4. Not enough activity nor Merit to rank up to Hero Member  801
Full Member                   1. Could have ranked up to Sr. Member, lacking Merit        2583
Full Member                   2. Could have ranked up to Sr. Member, lacking Activity     12
Full Member                   3. Soon may rank up to Sr. Member                           1
Full Member                   4. Not enough activity nor Merit to rank up to Sr. Member   763
Member                        1. Could have ranked up to Full Member, lacking Merit       4273
Member                        2. Could have ranked up to Full Member, lacking Activity    13
Member                        3. Soon may rank up to Full Member                          1
Member                        4. Not enough activity nor Merit to rank up to Full Member  1330
Jr. Member                    1. Could have ranked up to Member, lacking Merit            6564
Jr. Member                    2. Could have ranked up to Member, lacking Activity         437
Jr. Member                    3. Soon may rank up to Member                               21
Jr. Member                    4. Not enough activity nor Merit to rank up to Member       2154


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January 05, 2019, 02:22:09 PM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #18

- Are merits actually being circulated between those who really need deserve it?

Yes, they are, eventually. I am and a lot of other members are examples of that.
What I personally do is that I don't see the ranks or the need of the poster while handing out Merits. What I see is the post itself, and the history of the poster in some cases when the poster is relatively new to my eyes and has a lot of posts but no Merits yet. Probably If I was a Merit Source or something , who uses to have too many sMerits to hand out, I might had other thoughts, but for now, that is what I do, and I think what I'm doing has nothing wrong with it. Correct me if I'm wrong about that.

- Are they also helping out others through their sMerits?

Yes again. Maybe not everyone out there, but for the majority if I speak, they are.

most people don't use their merits by not sharing them with those who deserve them.

From what I've experienced so far, I think 'most' isn't the correct word here, but 'some' is the word I would personally use in that statement if I were to say it, since there aren't a lot of people (I'm not counting Merit abusers and farmers in this) who would keep their sMerits to themselves rather than giving them out for the posts that deserve Merits. If that was really the case, I doubt if any of the good posters who have ranked up by earning Merits could have possibly done it.

Reason?!

Just to stop others from being promoted to higher ranks so as to reduce competition and keep it low (with the fear of losing their own position in that campaign as few may not be confident enough of their capabilities of remaining in the same), they try their best not to share their merits ahead.

That is a new one for me. I could never think like that, nor I've ever thought that someone could have a mindset like that.
Upgate
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January 05, 2019, 02:29:42 PM
 #19

The undeniable truth is that everyone no matter how many merit you have already always appreciate a merit given to them. Merit is very significant it a sign of good and credible work that's why it's very important to have a good post history even if you had missed a merit from a good post you could still get it at anytime.

If merit was for ranking up I think the legendary guys would just sit back and not contribute positively as they used to

HODL2090
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January 05, 2019, 02:49:09 PM
 #20

The crust of the issue is no one is under any obligation ti hand out merits (except merits sources, to a small degree).
It is recommended that one hands out smerits, as they are of no use whatsoever to the hoarder, but not everyone sees the need to search for deserving posts, and some accounts with sendable merits are inactive.
But the merit sources and willing members are doing a good job in keeping merits in circulation.
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