Poll: is it OK to send merits to your own alts?

[MikeMike]

My online banking has technical limits as to how much money I can send via wire transfer (and via other means), and many cars have technical limits as to how fast they will drive, and if they will play the radio if the seatbelts are not being worn. Both the money in my bank account and any cars I own are still my property, despite these technical limitations.

Merits are not cars nor money. It's a forum feature and you don't own it any more than you own the "Report to moderator" button - you can use it subject to rules.

I can withdraw money from the bank and put it under my mattress, or mod my car any way I want if I don't drive it on public roads. If theymos allows you to take the sMerits off the forum in some way then I would agree that you can own them and perhaps use elsewhere not subject to forum rules.


I'm removing the other annoying KORE troll as well. Mike, get your minions in line.

Funny I was just going to ask him to chill
and why do you call him "my minion" and a "KORE Troll"?
That is not applicable nor justified.
But he is entitled to his opinions the same as you and I.
Perhaps you are dealing with too many scammers and corrupt people.
Im not one of them.

[bones261]

censorship is good...right?

This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic.

[MikeMike]

censorship is good...right?

This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic.

All depends on the reasons why the posts are deleted...
But yea.
Create your own topic.

[bones261]

censorship is good...right?

This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic.

All depends on the reasons why the posts are deleted...
But yea.
Create your own topic.

A person doesn't need "reasons" to delete a post on a self moderated topic. They could ask a Magic 8 ball or flip a coin if they wanted.

[suchmoon]

But he is entitled to his opinions the same as you and I.

He's not entitled to trash this thread. That's not an opinion. If you're happy with him posting useless crap in your KORE thread that's your problem but it's not going to work here.

[MikeMike]

But he is entitled to his opinions the same as you and I.

He's not entitled to trash this thread. That's not an opinion. If you're happy with him posting useless crap in your KORE thread that's your problem but it's not going to work here.

I did not say I was happy and posted that I was concerned of his posts.
Last thing we need is someone making wild accusations against me or KORE.

[r1s2g3]

Few things are worth noting here.
1. Mike have no idea that it require  at least Jr.Member to post the picture.
2. He have no idea about Copper Membership too?
3. He have no idea about ethical use case of Merit.
4. Trying to involve mprep in trust issue, that moderator do not entertained.

So much ignorance here on mikemike part is worth noting.
Only honest part is open acknowledge of giving merit to the Corporate alt account.

Mikemike, you are tagged for your ignorance and I do not think you can blame suchmoon for that.

What you can do :
Try to ask suchmoon what your further action will help suchmoon to remove that trust instead of justifying a community frowned action.
Few options that I can think of (but you and suchmoon both need to agree)
1. Since 40 merits are abused, so you need to merit 40 current newbies for their good post,that are not discovered by others till now.
2. Acknowledging your ignorance and requesting Theymos to undo this transaction ( but I guess Theymos may not entertain you)
3. Might creating some good content in this forum from your personal experience and knowledge that we do not have discussed in this forum.
4. Any other idea that suchmoon proposes.

In short, you cannot blame suchmoon/anybody for your ignorance.

[suchmoon]

But he is entitled to his opinions the same as you and I.

He's not entitled to trash this thread. That's not an opinion. If you're happy with him posting useless crap in your KORE thread that's your problem but it's not going to work here.

I did not say I was happy and posted that I was concerned of his posts.
Last thing we need is someone making wild accusations against me or KORE.

Ok, this is going way off rails, but you're running the self-moderated KORE thread and you're letting this crap through:

Good job KORE team!!

right on, right on...

Matrix, Great work!

GO KORE, GO BTC!

Holding KORE.

Go KORE, go BTC!

So what - any shitty bump is a good bump? Wild accusations? Come on. Shitcoiners gonna shitcoin. So why don't we stop debating relative merits (pun intended) of various shitcoins and focus on the topic at hand. If you can convince theymos to reverse the 40 merits I will revise my ratings to neutral. I think that's fair.


Ok this is getting ridiculous. After being explicitly warned about multi-posting you're still making multiple posts in a row. All that will be deleted, don't bother.

1. Mike have no idea that it require  at least Jr.Member to post the picture.

But somehow he "knew" that 40 merits are needed for that. I find that really hard to believe.

[MikeMike]

Few things are worth noting here.
1. Mike have no idea that it require  at least Jr.Member to post the picture.
2. He have no idea about Copper Membership too?
3. He have no idea about ethical use case of Merit.
4. Trying to involve mprep in trust issue, that moderator do not entertained.

So much ignorance here on mikemike part is worth noting.
Only honest part is open acknowledge of giving merit to the Corporate alt account.

Mikemike, you are tagged for your ignorance and I do not think you can blame suchmoon for that.

What you can do :
Try to ask suchmoon what your further action will help suchmoon to remove that trust instead of justifying a community frowned action.
Few options that I can think of (but you and suchmoon both need to agree)
1. Since 40 merits are abused, so you need to merit 40 current newbies for their good post,that are not discovered by others till now.
2. Acknowledging your ignorance and requesting Theymos to undo this transaction ( but I guess Theymos may not entertain you)
3. Might creating some good content in this forum from your personal experience and knowledge that we do not have discussed in this forum.
4. Any other idea that suchmoon proposes.

In short, you cannot blame suchmoon/anybody for your ignorance.

No I cannot blame him and have not done so.
I have been honest about "my ignorance" from the beginning and personally
yep, I had no idea what the heck proper use of Merit was and I take ownership of that.
EDIT:
In fact I did think it was related to Trust. Like Merit deserving of trust and gave you some status to post pics.
Now if it was called Post Rewards or Post Merits that would have cleared things up for me.
Im not the only one who fails to properly understand this as most never use it correctly.
That denotes a problem with educating the people using this forum.
Perhaps a notice the next time you login that explains it all could help.

I already PM'd Theymos and asked them to remove the merit I sent.

Regarding the "Copper Membership" this is another lack of educational effort to properly
inform those whom create a new account that the option exists.
I have not created an account since mine was hacked in 2015 so please lighten up a bit.
There is an oppressiveness to many posts here.

[MikeMike]

But he is entitled to his opinions the same as you and I.

He's not entitled to trash this thread. That's not an opinion. If you're happy with him posting useless crap in your KORE thread that's your problem but it's not going to work here.

I did not say I was happy and posted that I was concerned of his posts.
Last thing we need is someone making wild accusations against me or KORE.

Ok, this is going way off rails, but you're running the self-moderated KORE thread and you're letting this crap through:

Good job KORE team!!

right on, right on...

Matrix, Great work!

GO KORE, GO BTC!

Holding KORE.

Go KORE, go BTC!

So what - any shitty bump is a good bump? Wild accusations? Come on. Shitcoiners gonna shitcoin. So why don't we stop debating relative merits (pun intended) of various shitcoins and focus on the topic at hand. If you can convince theymos to reverse the 40 merits I will revise my ratings to neutral. I think that's fair.


Ok this is getting ridiculous. After being explicitly warned about multi-posting you're still making multiple posts in a row. All that will be deleted, don't bother.

1. Mike have no idea that it require  at least Jr.Member to post the picture.

But somehow he "knew" that 40 merits are needed for that. I find that really hard to believe.

I have no control over what people post and "go KORE" is not a P&D statement.
I personally dont like it and even asked them to not post it.
But you cant force someone not to be excited if they are and there is nothing wrong with that.
Perhaps they know more than you and remember you called KORE a shitcoin.
Come back in a year.

KORE was attacked and we lost an entire Coder Team.
I let you know this in PM.
I have been honest with you from the beginning and you are blowing things way out of context and making accusations that are frankly not true.


EDIT:
Regarding the 40 Merit sent.
It is what I felt comfortable sending JIC and thought it would be enough to post pictures.
Otherwise I would have sent more if I knew I get more Merit sent to my account regularly to give away.


Thanks,
I used the searchbox at the top of the forum.
Here are my searches:
"Merit System"
"bticointalk merit rules"
"how does merit work"

None were effective.
Bitcointalk clearly has failed in the proper execution of the "Merit System" they adopted.
Does it not make sense to have the terms of use in the actual Merit link in your profile?
Seems most my post that bring out very relevant facts here are being deleted as well as this link to very relevant information on proper merit use.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.msg49087465#msg49087465

[suchmoon]

No I cannot blame him and have not done so.
I have been honest about "my ignorance" from the beginning and personally
yep, I had no idea what the heck proper use of Merit was and I take ownership of that.

Fair enough. I have removed neg trust from "KORE - Projects" and I hope you won't risk doing it again.

The other two ratings can't be removed while that 40 merit transaction is still there.

I have no control over what people post and "go KORE" is not a P&D statement.

You do. It's a self-moderated thread and you should help the moderators out by removing trash like that. Nothing to do with P&D, just useless posts. But you like them for the free bumps (my opinion).

[MikeMike]

No I cannot blame him and have not done so.
I have been honest about "my ignorance" from the beginning and personally
yep, I had no idea what the heck proper use of Merit was and I take ownership of that.

Fair enough. I have removed neg trust from "KORE - Projects" and I hope you won't risk doing it again.
Thanks I appreciate your reasonableness here.
The other two ratings can't be removed while that 40 merit transaction is still there.
Lets hope Theymos removes the 40 merit.

I have no control over what people post and "go KORE" is not a P&D statement.

You do. It's a self-moderated thread and you should help the moderators out by removing trash like that. Nothing to do with P&D, just useless posts. But you like them for the free bumps (my opinion).
Im glad to see people excited about KORE,
and I do not like P&D posts.
With the wallet in its current state people are reluctant to post and I frankly dont blame them.
Thedudde is helping with the testnet and has some evidence of the new wallet
and so do some others...

I know it is hard but please try and separate KORE, myself and the KORE Team from scams you are used to dealing with.
Just give us a chance here is all Im asking.

EDIT:

I also had no idea that you get (could you confirm) 50 Merit per month?
I do believe most people are not aware of this and I think if they are
made aware would be much less reluctant, and that people would give it away daily even.
Again proper education about its use is key and another thing it took me awhile to get
is that when you send Merit it does not decrease your total Merit shown in your posts.
I think most people believe it does decrease that total Merit number and therefore again are reluctant to give it away.

[TheMatrix101]

oooooooooookkkkkkkkkkaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy since my livelyhood will be attacked ill respond to this.
What this all boils down to is, are alt accounts ethical and is KOREDev an alt account.

Are ALT accounts ethical?

• NO
  

Is it ethical to send merits to your own alts?

• No, an alt is unethical, enabling those alts to do more damage is unethical as well.

What is an alt account?

• An alt account is a secondary, third, fourth, etc, account that is meant to hide activity you dont want viewable on your account, the only real reason you would have an alt is to deceive others. Seeing as KOREDev was not made for a single user and was not made to hide questionable activity it is not an alt.
  

Is KOREdev an alt account?

• NO, KOREdev was made to be a team account that multiple users could have access to in order to post updates in different language threads due to an old dev leaving who screwed us over and now we have no access to those language threads and have to effectively kill them.
• It could be argued that it is currently an alt because we haven't had the time/money to hire a set of translators. this has some grounds. however, due to the merit system, it would be pointless for us to do so until the activity level of the account is up and the account actually can be utilized by multiple translators at a single time without logistical issues

should we care more about "spam" comments

• Yea probably, but as long as it's not fud frankly we don't care, you could post "this is a weird project" or "who cares about privacy" and we probably wouldn't delete those either

Why are we (KORE) self moderated?

• Have you ever been on a mod moderated thread? increadibly slow to respond/delete things

Do I care for BTCT's merit system?

• NO, its stupid and a pain in the ass. I can see the use case for it but the execution is piss poor

I understand and respect wanting to protect people from scams, hell I do that and similar on an almost daily basis. Though I do not care for the unfounded attack on my ethics. It is good to question the ethics of everyone. But questioning ethics and attacking someone without learning those ethics first are two very different things.

Matrix

[actmyname]

should we care more about "spam" comments

• Yea probably, but as long as it's not fud frankly we don't care, you could post "this is a weird project" or "who cares about privacy" and we probably wouldn't delete those either

Right. As long as it's not negative, you'll let trash through. I see. Too much of a bother, eh?Inundating your team account with merit is not something that makes sense. That's artificially increasing the reputation of the posts, whether you care or not.

When a new system is introduced, shouldn't you generally check to see how it works and what effects it has upon other systems? If you had done so, you would have only sent 1 merit.^*

_{*assuming you were ignorant}

[suchmoon]

Do I care for BTCT's merit system?

• NO, its stupid and a pain in the ass. I can see the use case for it but the execution is piss poor

Great, then don't use it, problem solved.

Here's the issue with you and Mike and many other shitcoiners: you don't give a damn about the forum beyond the ability to peddle your shitcoin. Mike has a self-moderated thread but he lets the garbage posts in. None of you report those posts to moderators either. Mike multiposts with his own account and with the alts as well, including in this thread. He even tried to promote his sale thread here. Merits are stupid except when you can use them in some made-up scenario to make "corporate" accounts look better than they are. Plus a bunch of lame-ass excuses about images, translators, etc - makes no sense. Buy a Copper account, that's what it's for.

[rat03gopoh]

Lol, 10% of the poll results choose "Yes". Have they entered their reason in this thread? Or they give irony reasons because they did it (sent merit to their alts)

[suchmoon]

Lol, 10% of the poll results choose "Yes". Have they entered their reason in this thread? Or they give irony reasons because they did it (sent merit to their alts)

One of them did it (MikeMike). Not sure about the other "yes" votes. There is some reasoning on pages 2 and 3 but it kinda got drowned in off-topic nonsense.

[MikeMike]

For all the concern about the improper use of the Bitcointalk Merit system I cant get any clear answers nor links to the Merit Rules of use.
I just did a search and cannot find them.
One thing is clear.
The Bitcointalk Merit system is not working the way it should, people are not using it correctly, or not using it at all.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.msg49083888#msg49083888
Some of that misuse is clearly for ill purposes and some is not.
To set oneself up as the judge and executioner is a bit of an issue.
I do not see an effort to educate people here at all.
A bunch of posts about you should have known and ignorance are useless judgmental meddling without the dispensing of knowledge.
To impute bad motive does not help either and it is clear people are doing that.

This thread is not about education it is about judgment.
Post relevant links to the Merit System Rules.
How much do you get and when?

[suchmoon]

For all the concern about the improper use of the Bitcointalk Merit system I cant get any clear answers nor links to the Merit Rules of use.
I just did a search and cannot find them.
One thing is clear.
The Bitcointalk Merit system is not working the way it should, people are not using it correctly.
Some of that misuse is clearly for ill purposes and some is not.
To set oneself up as the judge and executioner is a bit of an issue.
I do not see an effort to educate people here at all.
A bunch of posts about you should have known and ignorance are useless judgmental meddling without the dispensing of knowledge.
To impute bad motive does not help either and it is clear people are doing that.

This thread is not about education it is about judgment.
Post relevant links to the Merit System Rules.
How much do you get and when?

https://www.google.com/search?q=bitcointalk+merit

First result:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.0

See also the pinned posts in Meta: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=24.0 - particularly ones about rules and merit.

Any questions should be directed to those threads or create a new thread if you feel there is something that hasn't been addressed. This is not the right place for that.


Stop copy-pasting FFS.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Since there is no way of sending sMerits in self post, it's forbidden to send in alt too. Sending merits to alt should not be encourage here. It is counted as abuse. DT member would tag those users.

That's pretty solid logic if you ask me.

And while I think it's certainly abuse, I don't believe Theymos wants DT members tagging members who merit their alts.  DT members have done it in the past, but in the past few months I don't think a lot of merit-swapping deals have gotten negged.  It all depends on how blatant and extensive the abuse is and IF a DT member feels like giving them a neg. 

As for myself, I've pretty much bowed out of tagging merit abusers.  There is too much subjectivity in these cases and too many chances to erroneously neg a bunch of people all at once.  I'd much rather stick to the relatively black-and-white offenses of account selling and such.