Trump Threatens To Keep Government Closed "For Months Or years"

[theymos]

Well, Trump caved yesterday, with $0 for the wall. It's not over yet but I find it hard to believe that he can get anything now that his bluff's been called.

This is just a CR, so a full budget will be coming soon. I still think he might get the $1.6 billion (and call it a massive victory). The $5.7 billion is very unlikely now, since the inertia is now strongly against him, and he's demonstrated a lack of willingness to follow through. I predict that there will not be another shutdown in 3 weeks.

I'm disappointed it ended so soon. Things were just starting to heat up.

I'm constantly shocked and how incompetent Trump's advisors must be. He could have won this if he'd been willing to endure major disasters and widespread outcry, but clearly he wasn't anywhere near so willing, since he broke at almost the first sign of trouble. So it's now clear that he had no strategy for winning when he went into this. I get the sense that he's surrounded by the sort of energetic but unrealistic ideologues you see on eg. /r/The_Donald, plus a handful of establishment neocons who he only sometimes listens to. I kind of like Trump - his policy instincts are better than most politicians, and he's unusually willing to buck the establishment -, so it's disappointing that his administration is such a mess.

If I were him and had similar values as he does, I'd fire basically my whole staff, replace them with people from the Heritage Foundation, tell them to figure out a way to get a wall built and make me look good, and then let them do 99% of the work from there. Then he'd have a functioning administration and he'd probably end up getting his wall, since he'd have actually-competent people working on it. Right now he's clearly in way over his head and surrounded by people who are either trying to undermine him or loyal-but-incompetent.

The reason he has emergency authority to build a wall is because it falls quite clearly under national security grounds, and most importantly defense of the nations sovereign borders.

This is the kind of overly-optimistic advice he should not be believing...

If he just had to move military to the border or something like that, he might get away with it. But in order to build a wall, he has to confiscate private property, and that's never going to stand. Every property-owner is going to sue Trump, and if even one of those many courts orders that construction be stopped, it's stopped. Furthermore, a president lost a very similar case  in the Supreme Court previously: In order to fight a war more effectively, a president tried to confiscate steel factories, but was prevented.

So if he tries doing it via national emergency, the courts will stop him near-immediately, it'll be stuck in legal proceedings for years, and at the end he'd probably still lose. Though even if he knows this, he might still try it so that he can say "well, I tried everything I can to build the wall".

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[TECSHARE]

Nothing says he can't buy or otherwise compensate for that land, and or build on land they already control. Every inch does not need to be covered for it to improve effectiveness. It still channels people through more predictable routes by limiting options. He would be well within his authority doing any of this.

[Spendulus]

...

So if he tries doing it via national emergency, the courts will stop him near-immediately, it'll be stuck in legal proceedings for years, and at the end he'd probably still lose. ...

Lose? I'd like to see the arguments that would cause the Supreme Court of any country to rule that a border wall could not be built on that country's border.

[suchmoon]

If I were him and had similar values as he does, I'd fire basically my whole staff, replace them with people from the Heritage Foundation, tell them to figure out a way to get a wall built and make me look good, and then let them do 99% of the work from there. Then he'd have a functioning administration and he'd probably end up getting his wall, since he'd have actually-competent people working on it. Right now he's clearly in way over his head and surrounded by people who are either trying to undermine him or loyal-but-incompetent.

For that to happen he would need to overcome his ego and this shutdown failure seems to be just the latest of many indications that he can't. As soon as "Nancy" took away his SOTU speech he folded. I wouldn't be surprised if he's gonna attempt that speech now and perhaps he even truly believes that his imaginary "art of the deal" / "apprentice" persona will be able to browbeat dems into his $5.7B plan.

Amazing how quick he left is to jerk itself off, never once double checking their information before stroking it in public. At least children aren't getting death threats over this one though. This was a temporary measure likely aimed at getting workers paid. It lasts 3 weeks. That is it. You can stop declaring victory now.

Sure. And GOP losing the midterms was just a temporary measure that completely fooled the left.

I'm not declaring victory, I just happen to think that the shutdown is stupid and the wall is stupid. If Mexico wants to pay - have at it, but holding own citizens hostage over this boondoggle is borderline criminal.

[TECSHARE]

If I were him and had similar values as he does, I'd fire basically my whole staff, replace them with people from the Heritage Foundation, tell them to figure out a way to get a wall built and make me look good, and then let them do 99% of the work from there. Then he'd have a functioning administration and he'd probably end up getting his wall, since he'd have actually-competent people working on it. Right now he's clearly in way over his head and surrounded by people who are either trying to undermine him or loyal-but-incompetent.

For that to happen he would need to overcome his ego and this shutdown failure seems to be just the latest of many indications that he can't. As soon as "Nancy" took away his SOTU speech he folded. I wouldn't be surprised if he's gonna attempt that speech now and perhaps he even truly believes that his imaginary "art of the deal" / "apprentice" persona will be able to browbeat dems into his $5.7B plan.

Amazing how quick he left is to jerk itself off, never once double checking their information before stroking it in public. At least children aren't getting death threats over this one though. This was a temporary measure likely aimed at getting workers paid. It lasts 3 weeks. That is it. You can stop declaring victory now.

Sure. And GOP losing the midterms was just a temporary measure that completely fooled the left.

I'm not declaring victory, I just happen to think that the shutdown is stupid and the wall is stupid. If Mexico wants to pay - have at it, but holding own citizens hostage over this boondoggle is borderline criminal.

You preach about ego and how much you care for the workers, but the first thing you do is leap to declare victory, gloating over a temp fix and punishing the act, not praise the act of making sure the workers got paid. Not sure what your rambling about temporary measures fooling the left is about, but I am sure it is based on lots of factual information as usual. 

[BADecker]

Just when I was starting to have hope...


Drudge Report: Shutdown Deal Reached; Government to Reopen Temporarily

President Donald Trump announced on Friday afternoon from the White House’s Rose Garden that he and lawmakers on Capitol Hill have reached an agreement to end the longest government shutdown in U.S. history.

“I’m very proud to announce today that we have reached a deal to end the shutdown and reopen the federal government,” Trump said in the Rose Garden. Trump also disussed the option of using a “very powerful alternative,” meaning a declaration of a national emergency to build the wall with executive authority in contravention of Congress, but said “I did not want to use it at this time.”

“In a short while, I will sign a bill to reopen our federal government for three weeks until Feb.15,” Trump said, confirming details first reported by the Drudge Report and subsequently confirmed by other media outlets. He said that he will ensure federal employees will receive back pay “very quickly.”

Trump also said this deal will trigger a bipartisan conference committee on Capitol Hill to begin reviewing a request from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) for a border wall.

“Walls should not be controversial,” Trump said, adding that Border Patrol agents have told him that “walls work” citing previous Democrat support for barriers on the border and foreign countries like Israel that have built walls to protect their borders.

Trump ended his White House Rose Garden remarks by noting that if the Congress does not reach a deal by Feb. 15, the government will shut down again or he will use the executive authority for a declaration of a national emergency to build the wall.

Watch the videos at the site.

[suchmoon]

You preach about ego and how much you care for the workers, but the first thing you do is leap to declare victory, gloating over a temp fix and punishing the act, not praise the act of making sure the workers got paid. Not sure what your rambling about temporary measures fooling the left is about, but I am sure it is based on lots of factual information as usual. 

My "rambling" refers to your own theory that GOP strategically lost the election to trap dems into some grand plan of theirs. I don't recall all the details, sorry. Me stating the fact that Trump caved is not a victory for me personally in any way. I didn't feel the shutdown at all. It's still stupid though on many levels so I'm happy it's over. The federal workers shouldn't have been subjected to this to begin with so there is nothing and no one to praise.

[TECSHARE]

You preach about ego and how much you care for the workers, but the first thing you do is leap to declare victory, gloating over a temp fix and punishing the act, not praise the act of making sure the workers got paid. Not sure what your rambling about temporary measures fooling the left is about, but I am sure it is based on lots of factual information as usual. 

My "rambling" refers to your own theory that GOP strategically lost the election to trap dems into some grand plan of theirs. I don't recall all the details, sorry. Me stating the fact that Trump caved is not a victory for me personally in any way. I didn't feel the shutdown at all. It's still stupid though on many levels so I'm happy it's over. The federal workers shouldn't have been subjected to this to begin with so there is nothing and no one to praise.

Yes, why remember the details when you can just invent them? Yes, what a cave getting those workers paid! A stronger man would have let them be held hostage right? You are incapable of addressing the conflict in your own logic. This shit isn't over, so your "fact" is nothing of the sort as usual. A lot of people are being hurt by this frivolous attitude toward border security and immigration, a lot more than missing a paycheck. None of this would even be necessary if the Democrats were not intent on making this impossible by refusing to negotiate over it.

[suchmoon]

Yes, why remember the details when you can just invent them?

I don't think I invented anything:

That is the difference between the left and the right. The left can only think 1 step ahead at most. The Democrats were HANDED the house by having several criminally complicit RINOs step down, leaving many would be solidly held Republican districts up for grabs unopposed. Congrats, you can win when no one else is running against you

Why do this you might ask? Well let me tell you! This is to set the stage for 2020, as well as make sure that even when Trump is finally out of office, he will take a bunch of the criminal cartel within our government out before then. The idea is give the Democrats incentives to commit voter fraud, document it, and then wrap up all complicit parties nice and tight, freeing up 2020 for a nice election relatively free of fraud. You keep counting those chickens before they hatch. I am sure it will all work out.

Yes, what a cave getting those workers paid!

Ok.

None of this would even be necessary if the Democrats were not intent on making this impossible by refusing to negotiate over it.

This is not going to strengthen Trump's negotiating position at all. Dems were ready to give him $5.7 billion for border security but not for the wall. If border security and immigration were of such importance he could have taken it and called it a win.

[coins4commies]

Democrats don't even realize that Trump has shifted the overton window on this entire issue.  Immigration reform is not on the table at all.  Amnesty is not on the table at all, not even for dreamers.  The entire debate is "border wall" vs "really tight border security" which would be even more effective than a wall. 

That is an invisible win for Trump.

[TECSHARE]

I will just leave this right here: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-26/was-no-way-concession-trump-vows-move-forward-wall-21-days-if-no-deal

[Flying Hellfish]

Democrats don't even realize that Trump has shifted the overton window on this entire issue.  Immigration reform is not on the table at all.  Amnesty is not on the table at all, not even for dreamers.  The entire debate is "border wall" vs "really tight border security" which would be even more effective than a wall. 

That is an invisible win for Trump.

Don't be overly dramatic, immigration reform was never on the fucking table anyways.  The dems and GOP have been fighting over immigration for decades and it isn't getting fixed weather Trump try's to change the narrative or not.

The hard right isn't going to let Trump give the democrats the dreamers or TPS, they wouldn't give it to him when he was getting 25b for the wall.  Trump reportedly was listening to Kushner who told him to dig in and he could get the senate dems to split from Chuck to get the 5.7b passed.

[TECSHARE]

Democrats don't even realize that Trump has shifted the overton window on this entire issue.  Immigration reform is not on the table at all.  Amnesty is not on the table at all, not even for dreamers.  The entire debate is "border wall" vs "really tight border security" which would be even more effective than a wall.  

That is an invisible win for Trump.

Don't be overly dramatic, immigration reform was never on the fucking table anyways.  The dems and GOP have been fighting over immigration for decades and it isn't getting fixed weather Trump try's to change the narrative or not.

The hard right isn't going to let Trump give the democrats the dreamers or TPS, they wouldn't give it to him when he was getting 25b for the wall.  Trump reportedly was listening to Kushner who told him to dig in and he could get the senate dems to split from Chuck to get the 5.7b passed.

Actually again you talk a lot about things you aren't paying very close attention to. It was actually on the table early on remember? Of course not your mind is a giant leftist memory hole.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/26/trump-daca-deal-is-a-dream-come-true-for-democrats-commentary.html

CNBC vanilla toast enough for you or is that a secret neonazi rightwing rag? Frankly I would have been happy if they took it because those people are already here and we could move on and stop the flow. Of course that wasn't good enough. It never is. They even admit it themselves, their entire strategy since day one has been to obstruct.

This guy is pretty far left, even of you, and he has (shockingly) a way better grasp on the dynamics of this than you. Of course he lives here, you just pretend to know whats going on and judge from afar.

[cruso]

I think one side will cave before the end of February once federal employees really stop receiving paychecks and people don't receive their anticipated tax refunds. Probably Trump will be the one to cave (likely accepting the original $1.6 billion and calling it a win)

Well, Trump caved yesterday, with $0 for the wall. It's not over yet but I find it hard to believe that he can get anything now that his bluff's been called.

Amazing how quick he left is to jerk itself off, never once double checking their information before stroking it in public. At least children aren't getting death threats over this one though. This was a temporary measure likely aimed at getting workers paid. It lasts 3 weeks. That is it. You can stop declaring victory now.

I don't see him shutting down government in 3 weeks time. Thats just him posturing and appeasing his base whilst he tries figuring out a way out of a mess he created himself. I bet you everything that he won't get a dime from congress, and he won't shut down government. He is more likely to abuse emergency powers and that won't get him the wall.

I will just leave this right here: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-26/was-no-way-concession-trump-vows-move-forward-wall-21-days-if-no-deal

I didn't bother clicking that, but the man is a known liar and his words are meaningless. He vowed never to open government without  the wall money.

[TECSHARE]

I think one side will cave before the end of February once federal employees really stop receiving paychecks and people don't receive their anticipated tax refunds. Probably Trump will be the one to cave (likely accepting the original $1.6 billion and calling it a win)

Well, Trump caved yesterday, with $0 for the wall. It's not over yet but I find it hard to believe that he can get anything now that his bluff's been called.

Amazing how quick he left is to jerk itself off, never once double checking their information before stroking it in public. At least children aren't getting death threats over this one though. This was a temporary measure likely aimed at getting workers paid. It lasts 3 weeks. That is it. You can stop declaring victory now.

I don't see him shutting down government in 3 weeks time. Thats just him posturing and appeasing his base whilst he tries figuring out a way out of a mess he created himself. I bet you everything that he won't get a dime from congress, and he won't shut down government. He is more likely to abuse emergency powers and that won't get him the wall.

I will just leave this right here: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-26/was-no-way-concession-trump-vows-move-forward-wall-21-days-if-no-deal

I didn't bother clicking that, but the man is a known liar and his words are meaningless. He vowed never to open government without  the wall money.

Yes the world is quite convenient when you can just dismiss facts for opinions. For anyone who thinks he has an excuse.... https://www.virustotal.com

[freedomno1]

Well as a slight consolation prize by caving in first he put the pressure on the Democrats, you said you won't do Jack unless government opens.
Trump you have three weeks and in "Trump Voice"
(YOU KNOW THAT IF YOU DON'T DO AS YOU PROMISED DEMOCRATS AND MAKE A DEAL I WILL SHUTDOWN THIS GOVERNMENT AGAIN FOR ANOTHER MONTH)

And he may not go back on it this time, he gave the government employees a break and some cash to well deal with the next month. If they can't budget now he doesn't care at this point, although he could always go the path of declaring a national emergency in February over another shutdown.

[BADecker]

^^^ Well, what's wrong with that?

Hundreds of TSA employees are calling out sick amid shutdown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JIl3cvv5vU

 

[BADecker]

“In a short while, I will sign a bill to reopen our federal government for three weeks until Feb.15,” Trump said, confirming details first reported by the Drudge Report and subsequently confirmed by other media outlets. He said that he will ensure federal employees will receive back pay “very quickly.”


Kill Bill Volume 2 - Bill's Death (Ending Scene)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kf0D_X7uFE

[Spendulus]

Well at least they might just get paid a little, then shutdown again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EQNqzeO9Hg

Hey, nothing wrong with some beer money!

[BADecker]

We don't really need government... except for one thing. Government is the major way the banking Ponzi keeps on going. Without the banking Ponzi, the way money works would change significantly. It's going to happen. All Ponzi's crash. Do it now, while the crash is only worse than the Great Depression... rather than destroying the nation for good. Cut Government!


How the Shutdown Shows Us Exactly Where to Start Cutting Government

Problem: Do you have any idea how many areas of your life involve the government? Now all these areas, that you didn’t even know the government was involved in, are affected by the shutdown!

Mainstream solution: Re-open government, and continue to leave all these sectors vulnerable to the incompetence and maliciousness of government.

Actual solution: GET THE GOVERNMENT THE HELL OUT OF THE ECONOMY!

Over a month of the “shutdown” and now they have agreed to reopen temporarily. Oh boy, that means we get all the terrible government we pay for back in our lives.

Until February 15th at least.

Then government workers can go back to the food bank lines or–gasp–find private sector jobs!

[The most shocking part of all this to me is that the people running the government on a daily basis don’t even have their shit together enough to go one month without pay. But why should I be surprised when they are taking the lead of a government almost $22 TRILLION in debt.]

I’m an empathetic person so I don’t like to see anyone struggle. Which is why for years I’ve written about the need to take matters into your own hands. Be prepared for disaster instead of relying on the government or corporations to save you.

So–big surprise–here’s a disaster. The government can’t fulfill its basic functions because of a partisan political fight.

And if this is how it goes over a $5 billion dispute, imagine when it really hits the fan. Could be the debt, the unfunded liabilities, or the viability of the overprinted dollar–but something WILL give causing a real shutdown much worse than the current political stunt.

Great reasons to get the government out of all important roles.

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