USD will crash before BTC

[jjjfff]

Read this very carefully https://www.marketwatch.com/story/stock-market-investors-its-time-to-hear-the-ugly-truth-2019-01-05

For years critics of U.S. central-bank policy have been dismissed as Negative Nellies, but the ugly truth is staring us in the face: Stock-market advances remain a game of artificial liquidity and central-bank jawboning, not organic growth. And now the jig is up.


It's a ponzi scheme, stupid!

They can't keep printing money forever. The markets are pumped by the FED.

World debt sits at U$ 250 trillion (!!!) right now:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/11/global-debt-hits-a-new-record-at-247-trillion.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-lehman-debt/?srnd=premium

Nobody is going to pay this debt, EVER. It's never going to get paid. They will roll over, print more money, throw this to the next generation (it's a ponzi, new people need to keep coming in).

By the time our grandsons read this they will be working most their lives just to pay the FED balance sheet.

[clrpod]

If the whole world is indebted to one another then new money does not need to keep coming in. As long as no country is in a powerful enough position to stop the constant rolling over of debt then it can continue with little consequence. The strong world economies that are funded by this debt will stop the success of any non-debt funded economies by whatever means they can, be that through tariffs or through war.

[ShadowBits]

Read this very carefully https://www.marketwatch.com/story/stock-market-investors-its-time-to-hear-the-ugly-truth-2019-01-05

For years critics of U.S. central-bank policy have been dismissed as Negative Nellies, but the ugly truth is staring us in the face: Stock-market advances remain a game of artificial liquidity and central-bank jawboning, not organic growth. And now the jig is up.


It's a ponzi scheme, stupid!

They can't keep printing money forever. The markets are pumped by the FED.

World debt sits at U$ 250 trillion (!!!) right now:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/11/global-debt-hits-a-new-record-at-247-trillion.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-lehman-debt/?srnd=premium

Nobody is going to pay this debt, EVER. It's never going to get paid. They will roll over, print more money, throw this to the next generation (it's a ponzi, new people need to keep coming in).

By the time our grandsons read this they will be working most their lives just to pay the FED balance sheet.

I think there will be a time for that to happe, but I think Trump is doing his best in order for it not to happen. But I also want Bitcoin to soar and make it more valuable than USD.

[jeromix]

This is also happening in other country. Yeah you have say much about the cryptocurrency system as a scam. People knownl this also but why still many do invest? This is considered already as gambling. The high risk is there and everyone agreed to it and does know that the system can end. For now people are still determined to earn in cryptocurrency. So they keep.on investing even if it means as scam.

[deisik]

If the whole world is indebted to one another then new money does not need to keep coming in. As long as no country is in a powerful enough position to stop the constant rolling over of debt then it can continue with little consequence. The strong world economies that are funded by this debt will stop the success of any non-debt funded economies by whatever means they can, be that through tariffs or through war.

I think along the same lines mostly

People easily forget that money is only an intermediary which is not worth anything on its own, without the "underlying". And being only that, we can remove it from the equation completely and when we do so, we come to understand that it is the economies that matter and their strength, not money or debt representing them. In other words, if fiat monies are going to die, the American dollar will be the last to kick the bucket due to sheer size of the US economy

[jjjfff]

If the whole world is indebted to one another then new money does not need to keep coming in. As long as no country is in a powerful enough position to stop the constant rolling over of debt then it can continue with little consequence. The strong world economies that are funded by this debt will stop the success of any non-debt funded economies by whatever means they can, be that through tariffs or through war.

I think along the same lines mostly

People easily forget that money is only an intermediary which is not worth anything on its own, without the "underlying". And being only that, we can remove it from the equation completely and when we do so, we come to understand that it is the economies that matter and their strength, not money or debt representing them. In other words, if fiat monies are going to die, the American dollar will be the last to kick the bucket due to sheer size of the US economy

Debt is 10 times larger than the US economy.

The US cannot pay the debt. Simple as that.

It's like a credit card bill that will never get paid. Simply rolls over from month to month. Who pays the bill? We do.

You cannot remove money from the equation because of fractional reserve banking. The system is not honest. What you talk about would be true if the system were honest, but it's not.

Money is essential because a bank with 1 million dollars in reserves is free to loan 10 million nonexistent dollars. It's a fraud, simple as that.

[deisik]

I think along the same lines mostly

People easily forget that money is only an intermediary which is not worth anything on its own, without the "underlying". And being only that, we can remove it from the equation completely and when we do so, we come to understand that it is the economies that matter and their strength, not money or debt representing them. In other words, if fiat monies are going to die, the American dollar will be the last to kick the bucket due to sheer size of the US economy

Debt is 10 times larger than the US economy.

The US cannot pay the debt. Simple as that.

It's like a credit card bill that will never get paid. Simply rolls over from month to month. Who pays the bill? We do.

You cannot remove money from the equation because of fractional reserve banking. The system is not honest. What you talk about would be true if the system were honest, but it's not.

Money is essential because a bank with 1 million dollars in reserves is free to loan 10 million nonexistent dollars. It's a fraud, simple as that.

In simple terms, you don't know how fiat system works these days

There is no fractional reserve banking today, with fiat money not backed up by anything it loses any meaning. It always amuses me why people continue to repeat the same shit over and over again? It has been explained many times that there are no "10 million nonexistent dollars" as these dollars (credit money) are as "existent" as any other dollars out there. If it is a fraud, then the whole fiat system is a fraud

Regarding the US debt specifically, it is not debt, even though you are made to believe it is. If anything, it is a tax that Uncle Sam has levied on the rest of the world and made everyone think that he actually owes something. Don't fall for the show you see on the TV. And strictly speaking, it is nowhere close to being 10x the economy of the US. Where did you get that number, really?

[LeGaulois]

@deisik

The fractional reserve is still here, the money is still created depending on deposits. That's why the Third Basel Accord comes to avoid the problem with a liquidity crisis. Banks have solvability problems for sure.
Do you call the scriptural money non-existent money or existent?

[deisik]

@deisik

The fractional reserve is still here, the money is still created depending on deposits. That's why the Third Basel Accord comes to avoid the problem with a liquidity crisis. Banks have solvability problems for sure.
Do you call the scriptural money non-existent money or existent?

No, fiat banks don't need deposits to create money. Why should I ever explain it again? This question has been beaten to death already, and still it gets raised now and then. When a fiat bank gives out a loan, its balance gets increased as money is essentially created out of thin air. Why would it need deposits for that? If you don't believe me, read this explanation from the Bank of England itself. I have it in my bookmarks as I am used to constantly hearing that nonsense about FRB from the textbooks

I don't know what you mean by scriptural money

[Indamuck]

Every fiat currency on Earth has collapsed at some point.  The USD will not last too much longer and gold/bitcoin will be taking its place as the reserve currency.

Once we see oil nations refuse to accept USD for their oil reserves it will start a collapse like we have never seen before.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

People easily forget that money is only an intermediary which is not worth anything on its own, without the "underlying". And being only that, we can remove it from the equation completely and when we do so, we come to understand that it is the economies that matter and their strength, not money or debt representing them. In other words, if fiat monies are going to die, the American dollar will be the last to kick the bucket due to sheer size of the US economy

That's an interesting take.  But damn, if money isn't worth anything on its own, why do I have to pay so much in taxes?

I get the impression OP is a little bit off the deep end as far as his hatred of the Fed, but there's a place for people like him in the world.  If we didn't have people speaking out against the government, we'd be in trouble.  But I've challenged him in one of his other threads and invited others to the discussion, but it's gone nowhere. 

So OP, I'll just say that I respect your middle finger being thrust out at the Fed, but I'll remain skeptical about some of the facts you use to support your argument.

[jjjfff]

There is no fractional reserve banking today

LOL WUT!

Here are the fractional reserve regulations for banks in the USA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_requirement#United_States

[jjjfff]

I get the impression OP is a little bit off the deep end as far as his hatred of the Fed

You were unable to make a single point against anything I said in the past threads where we met.

You called your "smart friends" to rebuke stuff I said.

I respect the fact that you're not really informed about real world markets, but you should hold off on trying to diss me instead of the points I make.

Let's focus on things I said rather than on me? Hold your ad-hominem please. I did not call you off on any of the dumb arguments you made (trust me, they're plenty).

[ChrisPop]

BTC is deflationary guys. USD and other currencies are being printed like air especially american dollars by the US govt. Just taking this factor into account we should bet on BTC and cryptocurrencies, let alone the breakthrough technologies we get. As I speak more about cryptos I realise that this opportunity is a no brainer. Personally I'm putting all my savings into BTC and alts I believe in. I don't let any fiat stand in my wallet because that is simply wasted moolah. 

[deisik]

Here are the fractional reserve regulations for banks in the USA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_requirement#United_States

Did you read yourself the part by the link you posted?

In the United States, a reserve requirement[5] (or liquidity ratio) is a minimum value, set by the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, of the ratio of required reserves to a category of deposit liabilities (called the "Net Transaction Accounts" or "NTAs") owed by depository institutions to their customers (e.g., owed by commercial banks including U.S. branches of a foreign bank, savings and loan association, savings bank, credit union). The deposit liability categories currently subject to reserve requirements are mainly checking accounts. There is no reserve requirement on savings accounts and time deposit accounts owned by individuals.[6] The total amount of all NTAs held by customers with U.S. depository institutions, plus the U.S. paper currency and coin currency held by the nonbank public, is called M1.

I'm curious if you understand what is written there

I wouldn't be surprised if you used the Federal Reserve System itself as an example of FRB just because it has the word "reserve" in its name and FRS looks pretty much like FRB. What the quoted part says is about a Central bank (in this case the FRS) monetary policy aimed at regulating the banking, and through it, the financial system. It is the amount of money that a bank is obliged to maintain on its account at the Federal Reserve at the end of the day. It doesn't restrict banks from lending unlike what FRB is supposed to do simply because deposits are created from loans, and thus any reserve requirement will be met as required

People easily forget that money is only an intermediary which is not worth anything on its own, without the "underlying". And being only that, we can remove it from the equation completely and when we do so, we come to understand that it is the economies that matter and their strength, not money or debt representing them. In other words, if fiat monies are going to die, the American dollar will be the last to kick the bucket due to sheer size of the US economy

That's an interesting take.  But damn, if money isn't worth anything on its own, why do I have to pay so much in taxes?

Maybe, because it is not on its own here and your taxes will be spent on whores, yachts and drugs?

[jjjfff]

Here are the fractional reserve regulations for banks in the USA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_requirement#United_States

Did you read yourself the part by the link you posted?

In the United States, a reserve requirement[5] (or liquidity ratio) is a minimum value, set by the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, of the ratio of required reserves to a category of deposit liabilities (called the "Net Transaction Accounts" or "NTAs") owed by depository institutions to their customers (e.g., owed by commercial banks including U.S. branches of a foreign bank, savings and loan association, savings bank, credit union). The deposit liability categories currently subject to reserve requirements are mainly checking accounts. There is no reserve requirement on savings accounts and time deposit accounts owned by individuals.[6] The total amount of all NTAs held by customers with U.S. depository institutions, plus the U.S. paper currency and coin currency held by the nonbank public, is called M1.

I'm curious if you understand what is written there

I wouldn't be surprised if you used the Federal Reserve System itself as an example of FRB just because it has the word "reserve" in its name and FRS looks pretty much like FRB. What the quoted part says is about a Central bank (in this case the FRS) monetary policy aimed at regulating the banking, and through it, the financial system. It is the amount of money that a bank is obliged to maintain on its account at the Federal Reserve at the end of the day. It doesn't restrict banks from lending unlike what FRB is supposed to do simply because deposits are created from loans, and thus any reserve requirement will be met as required

People easily forget that money is only an intermediary which is not worth anything on its own, without the "underlying". And being only that, we can remove it from the equation completely and when we do so, we come to understand that it is the economies that matter and their strength, not money or debt representing them. In other words, if fiat monies are going to die, the American dollar will be the last to kick the bucket due to sheer size of the US economy

That's an interesting take.  But damn, if money isn't worth anything on its own, why do I have to pay so much in taxes?

Maybe, because it is not on its own here and your taxes will be spent on whores, yachts and drugs?

Someone said fractional reserve did no longer exist, to which I replied that that was ludicrous. FDIC, FSB, FED, FRS, IRS, FBI, NFL, MLB whoever is in charge of it I don't know.

About The Pharmacist's mention of taxes as if that guaranteed some intrinsic value to money: I didn't reply earlier, on purpose, because that doesn't really make any sense.

A simple example may illustrate this better.

Disney sells tokens you can spend within Disney parks. Like the FED issues Treasury notes you can spend within USA.

Disney charges fees for certain activities. USA charges taxes for certain activities.

Just like Disney tokens do not have any intrinsic value other than Disney backing it, even though you can pay fees with those tokens, the same happens to the Treasury notes we happen to call US Dollars.

There's nothing intrinsic about the dollar. We can pay taxes using it because it's the tokens the taxman himself issued via his magical money department we call FED.

The moment average folks understand this is the moment they'll start to understand the fact that the FED simply prints these Treasury notes by issuing one simple database command.

US Dollars are simply a line in a secure database. Today there exist 1 bazillion, tomorrow magically there exist a bazillion plus one trillion. That's how the FED works. They magically create money out of thin air.

Average folks seem reluctant to grasp this simple fact.

They think oh man, the US power is so immense, USA can't use a magical currency issued by a sacred entity that puffs money out of thin air!

Well, that's exactly what it is.

There are over U$ 250 trillion in DEBT in the world today. Nobody's gona pay this debt.

Either they'll start big wars or come up with some other excuse to "solve" this 250 trillion U$ debt bomb. Nobody except The People pay the bill for this absurd system.

[efxtrader]

I dont think USD will crash in near time. Its true that USD printed without any backup like gold but USD still needed for global transaction. I think Bitcoin time will come if economic crisis happen

[wahyu wida]

I dont think USD will crash in near time. Its true that USD printed without any backup like gold but USD still needed for global transaction. I think Bitcoin time will come if economic crisis happen

right, usd is the basis for international transactions, so that if it crashes, it will lead to a global crisis. but to switch to BTTC for international transactions, I think it still takes a lot of time, because there are still many countries that are not familiar with crypto

[andaBand]

I agree that USD will collapse at one point because no currency can last forever but it will be a long time until this happens,

[reactorjuno]

USD could collapse, but worse will be the EURO. The value of the EUR has varied really a lot over the year. It was introduced at the rate of 1.16 USD (more or less) in 1999, it fell to 0.86 dollar two years later, then almost doubled in the span of 8 years. And of course it then collapsed again.

The average percentage of international reserves denominated in EUR is 22%. Central bankers and international institutions still prefer the US dollar despite all the critics we can make about the US economy.

By the way, France's debt is huge too. And in Japan it is pretty big as well. All this is a huge bubble. In most rich countries, people live comfortably thanks to invisible money.