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Author Topic: FortuneJack Casino Refuses to Pay 20 BTC Won From Jackpot!  (Read 2893 times)
Lauda
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January 16, 2019, 06:58:57 AM
 #141

I really don't. It makes no difference whether you knew or not, except that if you did, and the casino could prove it, you'd be arrested for fraud. But either way you don't get to keep your winnings.
You'd get stripped away from all winnings and get kicked out. It would be similar to how they handle people that attempt cheating in 'traditional' ways.

Also, the issue here is that verusfides won their 20 BTC on a non-malfunctioning game (Plinko). They got the balance to win from the malfunctioning game. How do you think that should be handled? (which is the whole point that we're debating)
OP couldn't have won any real bitcoins, because they didn't wager any real bitcoins; they wagered void credit, so that's what they won.
Which is why I'm strongly inclined to align with the casino on this case. He was betting with something that shouldn't exist to begin with, so the win should never have existed either. Plus, once you take a bug bounty compensation it makes your case even weaker.

Please, stop this cacaphony, FJ was fair giving you a large bug bounty and your initial deposit back, also free spins. your problem is that, you have lost them in minutes and now trying to get more.
This is also what bothers me about OP. Did you lose the bug bounty on FJ as well?

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January 16, 2019, 07:04:47 AM
 #142

This is also what bothers me about OP. Did you lose the bug bounty on FJ as well?

yes, he did.

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January 16, 2019, 07:17:03 AM
 #143

This is also what bothers me about OP. Did you lose the bug bounty on FJ as well?

Gambling addiction is real. If this guy was gambling on FJ for 8 to 13 hours... of course he has a problem.. by giving him free spins thats nice and all.. but how long does that last (long enough where it ends up being.. ok one more spin, nvm I meant one more after that.. or trips to the atm to withdraw $50.. gone.. ok this $100 is the last of it, fuck it with $200 more I can break even) and how quickly was the 0.2BTC dumped back into the site. A nice gesture but with sinister motives behind it. These guys at the online gambling sites know what they're doing and how to kickstart the gambling addiction that so many have.

Not much to do with the case but it's why you gave the guy free spins on top of everything else. Business model/marketing 101 in that line of work but don't pretend like it was you doing him a favor. Deep down we know free spins are just a fishing hook reeling in a gambler that can't stop.
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January 16, 2019, 07:30:44 AM
 #144

This is also what bothers me about OP. Did you lose the bug bounty on FJ as well?

Gambling addiction is real. If this guy was gambling on FJ for 8 to 13 hours... of course he has a problem.. by giving him free spins thats nice and all.. but how long does that last (long enough where it ends up being.. ok one more spin, nvm I meant one more after that.. or trips to the atm to withdraw $50.. gone.. ok this $100 is the last of it, fuck it with $200 more I can break even) and how quickly was the 0.2BTC dumped back into the site. A nice gesture but with sinister motives behind it. These guys at the online gambling sites know what they're doing and how to kickstart the gambling addiction that so many have.

Not much to do with the case but it's why you gave the guy free spins on top of everything else. Business model/marketing 101 in that line of work but don't pretend like it was you doing him a favor. Deep down we know free spins are just a fishing hook reeling in a gambler that can't stop.

are you seriously fucking moaning about the site giving him money and spins? They cant refund him without you making them look bad and they cant not refund him without someone else moaning? WTF is this shit about?

seriously people be objective here - OP is a DEGENERATE GAMBLER, he got paid out after being a little sneaky (not saying its wrong, 75% of people here might of tried there luck) and then dumps it all into the casino and comes here and moans. Get real, forget any personal issues and look at the fucking facts. FJ has been stand up, FJ has been here answering questions, FJ paid a shit ton more than OP deserves - what would you prefer? them to Ban him as he is a problem gambler? next thread from OP will be "FJ banned me and wont let me try to win my money back"

GTFO people with nothing objective to say.

@DarkStar - any chance of you and David having a chat about the provably fair issue? I feel that is a much bigger point that needs addressing over the stupid OP here, I would appreciate if you could take the time to speak to them as I respect what you have to say and feel that you are objective enough to get to the truth.

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January 16, 2019, 08:07:25 AM
 #145

I don't think the issue here is the system's provable fairness, although I haven't verified it.

Their provably fair is actually not provably fair. The bust points are provably predetermined, but there's nothing that requires them to have a degree of randomness or keep true to their 2% edge. This is how the system works: (screenshot)

How is the drawing done and what is a provably fair credibility code?
The server is pre-generated with the next 10 drawing with its maximum winning point (BPS) and unique code. Each drawing code is produced by the following 3 components
● Drawing number
● Maximum winning point of the drawing (BPS)
● Unique combination of randomly generated symbols
The unique code is produced by algorithm sha256 by merging these 3 components
For example: if the drawing number is 012345, the maximum profit point of the same drawing is 5.63 and the unique number of the drawing is a1bscasca1231
The drawing code will have the following format: x12341241

This is what the "provably fair" section looks like. It's a list of hashes and the hashed value.

Basically, how it works is that they generate the next 10 bust points before they happen, and combine it with a random hash as well as the game ID. For example, for game #148861, they would give the hash of the game ahead of time:
Code:
AA52E6C67BE59C21380DA5642942CB6237308FC249CB06DC554D961B0AB695C6

Once the game has been played, they reveal the unhashed value:
Code:
148861:2.98:d2c5059f-6b0b-4120-96fd-63d9c17271c4

I have four issues with this setup:

1. Each bust point is supposedly randomly generated, however this can't be proved. We only know that the result was predetermined. We can't know that the result was generated fairly. Each bust point is independent of the previous bust points (unlike how bustabit works, which uses hash chains). FortuneJack can easily cheat and the game can still verify as "provably fair". If there is a whale playing the game, the next 10 bust points might be legitimately randomly generated, but after that, FortuneJack can purposely provide hashes that are lower than they should. Is the whale constantly cashing out above 2x? FortuneJack can feed them bust points always below 2x, and it would still appear as "provably fair". However, this is clearly not fair.

bustabit counters this by using a chain of hashes. RHavar generated 10 million hashes, and posted the last one publicly. The 1st hash is used to generate the first bust point. The second hash is generated by hashing the first hash, and it is used to calculate the first bust point. He also used the hash of a future Bitcoin block as the seed, to ensure he did not generate a hash with a higher house edge.

FortuneJack has no proof of randomness in their provably fair. RollinCoin (scam) used a very similar system, and kolloh's response perfectly points out the issue:
The results of the bets are not generated in a manner that provides proof to the house edge. The results are arbitrary and the hashes show the results of the precalculated result.

NLNico (arguably one of the top minds in the provably fair gambling space) agrees:

Added negative trust.

People should realize that their "provably fair" implementation is already not provably fair anyway. They could literally show 10000s of hashes where the string is "Lose:......" and claim it's provably fair because the hash is the same. That is not how provably fair works.

Somehow, with such a crappy bad non-"provably fair" implementation, they still managed to cheat it extra - by changing the hash. That is like almost impressive. <- unrelated to FortuneJack situation

Please ignore such sites.

If I was FortuneJack and a whale started playing, I am able to give them only 10 rounds that are fair, and feed them hashes with low bust values after the 10. A big whale, baaaitcoin played 884 rounds on bustabit (with that account. IIRC they made multiple), and bet on average 10.85BTC per bet. If they played on FortuneJack, FJ could have manipulated all of the bust points after the first 10 rounds to have lower bust points than they should, causing baaaitcoin to go bankrupt very quickly. Something like this could have been given:

Code:
148852:1.21:cf13f713-8d0b-4268-8c5e-dc7f088a5540 // should have been 5.01, modified to 1.21
148851:1.17:4e7da20e-07e7-47a6-816d-3b021f3c3dd5 // should have been 41.88, modified to 1.17
148850:1.37:f8c08863-c87d-4df6-961d-5d29d21aa6b0 // should have been 4.47, modified to 1.37
148849:1.00:99920d7f-b197-4740-9291-58fd8128eb2b // should have been 1.87, modified to 1.00
148848:1.25:aa5f0f49-c16a-491c-a985-a297cbad1bde
148847:1.37:1a2396eb-fe8b-499e-8492-7f42c3b5a294
148846:1.34:1c87a433-0153-44a3-8f62-7774097c1c4b
<insert 10 legit hashes>

If baaaitcoin was aiming for multipliers above 1.38, that's an easy 70BTC in profit for FortuneJack. And the best part is, the games would verify as provably fair. I don't know if FortuneJack did this to cheat anyone, and I can't download the ~148k bust points from games played to see if the bust points hover near a 2% house edge. I don't think they cheated anyone (most likely incompetence), but any system that allows a casino to undetectably cheat is not provably fair.



2. There is no history for prior games available as far as I know. The provably fair list given only shows the last 19 game results. No available prior bust history combined with no proof of random bust points means that it is impossible for the community to verify that the bust points deviate around the x1.98 bust point (based off of 2% house edge). For all we know, the game code could be set to generate bust points with an average at x1.8, which would significantly increase the house edge. There is no way for the player to even attempt the verify that the game is fair.

3. Even if the game history is provided, and the bust points deviate from x1.98, FortuneJack could simply fill in some very high bust points when no one is playing the game. The chance that someone would join the game and play in 10 rounds is low, and the chance that the player who joined would be chasing a very high multiplier is even lower. This could allow them to have the bust points deviate from a higher bust point when no one is playing, and a lower bust point when someone is playing. This gives them fully undetectable "provably fair" where they can easily cheat.

4. Let's pretend they do have a legitimate bust value generation in the background, and can provide a hash chain + seed that gives all of the bust points. Let's also pretend that we have access to the full game history that has no chance of being modified. There is still an issue with this: they did not post a hash chain publicly and find the seed in a fair way. They can easily manipulate this to give themselves a much higher edge. RHavar explains how in this post. This leaves them with no way of proving that all bust points were generated fairly in the backend.

However, it's much more likely that they're using a Math.random(); in the backend which they can freely modify.



Summary
There is no proof that bust points are generated to only have a 2% house edge. FortuneJack can very easily manipulate the bust points for each round, if they do it 10 rounds prior and there is no way to detect this. This essentially allows them to cheat, with 'provably fair' still showing the game was fair. NLNico, owner of DiceSites.com and one of the most well known people in the provably fair space suggests to "ignore such sites."

They should fix this by copying a working provably fair system, like the one bustabit uses.

TLDR: Read bolded lines

I will reply here as well, this post was sent to game provider and game developers and I would like to thank you firstly for thorough examination of the game and secondly, can assure you to get back to you as soon as I hear from them.

Cheers,
David.

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January 16, 2019, 08:07:36 AM
 #146

The bug was that for a certain number of rounds, the user would get paid out their auto-cashout multiplier regardless of whether it was higher than SpinBPS.
I see it now. The spreadsheet was hard to read because the line with the labels was not frozen at the top.

It should be fairly clear there was a bug, provided the information from FJ can be believed.

I agree that most casinos do not normally payout winnings when a machine is not working properly, however casinos can choose to do so. My concern about the OP's case is FJ did something very similar to giving the OP chips, which is the same as paying out -- the OP subsequently used those chips to bet on another game and won.

I would also point out, according to FJ, over 15 hours elapsed from when the OP stopped using the bugged game to when he won the jackpot on plinko. I believe if FJ intended to not honor subsequent bets from funds won from the new game, they should have frozen his account as soon as they were aware of the bug, which should have been far before 15 hours later IMO.

According to my calculations, while playing plinko, he was down at most, 004096 BTC, and his subsequent bet was 0.0256 BTC, resulting in a total required bankroll of 0.06556 BTC to place the subsequent bet after his low point. During the majority of the OP's plinko betting session, he was making very small bets, and he was down by this much less than an hour prior to his jackpot win, and he was previously down nominal amounts two hours prior to his jackpot win.

The OP initially deposited ~0.009 BTC, and if you assume the subsequent bet would result in the OP having a zero balance, he would need to make bets approximately 13.727% of his actual plinko bets, resulting in a payout of approximately 2.745 BTC from the jackpot.

The OP was however due a bug bounty of 0.08 BTC (he actually received 0.2 BTC, but the advertised amount was 0.08). It is unclear when this would be payable to the OP, but I don't think it would be unreasonable to say he should have received it within 12 hours of finishing play on the bugged game. If the winnings from the bugged game were removed, and the bug bounty was added to the OP's account, he would have sufficient funds to cover the bet that resulted in his jackpot win, and as such, I believe there is a strong argument he should receive the entire jackpot win.


Separately, I am concerned about how their bug bounty thread reads. Specifically, it says "...find bugs in two new games just released...", which implies they did not invest resources required to release a working game. There is also the implication that FJ may have been trying to "freeroll" their customers by displaying large wins -- if for example, someone deposited 0.1 BTC, thought they won 2 BTC, and subsequently lost  0.102 BTC (after increasing their bet size) on another game might have their entire deposit seized, but this player might not have made as large of bets had they not thought they were up 1.9 BTC.

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January 16, 2019, 09:03:15 AM
 #147

I really fail to see the issue here. The Terms & Conditions are quite clear:

Quote
7. Bets and any winnings made during malfunctioning of a game shall be void. Any subsequent Games or Services that you participate in with funds obtained from a malfunctioning Game shall also be void.


You agree to the T&C when signing up on FortuneJack so the OP should've been aware of it. They have refunded his bets and even given him 0.2 BTC (which he accepted). He then proceeds to lose that 0.2 and is now complaining that they aren't paying out the jackpot (which is covered in the T&C).
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January 16, 2019, 12:20:13 PM
 #148

If the winnings from the bugged game were removed, and the bug bounty was added to the OP's account, he would have sufficient funds to cover the bet that resulted in his jackpot win, and as such, I believe there is a strong argument he should receive the entire jackpot win.

look, this is impossible, The bug bounty was issued only after seizing the jackpot winnings, what obviously means that firstly jackpot was won using the bug money, than the winning was seized and only after the bounty was given. I will upload another screen from our back office (information hidden are usernames of other players affected by bug and given bounty as well)



The bounty was raised only after my involvement to 0.2 adding 0.12 to players account, this is the moment when I thought we were settling and raised bug bounty because player was in rare rage and really felt bad for him and situation was delicate as well.



Hope this is the last one on this topic, we are open to make more files public, that guided us to the decision and is interesting for community.

Cheers,
David.

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.6 BTC WELCOME OFFER...JOIN NOW..
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January 16, 2019, 05:34:56 PM
 #149

@DarkStar - any chance of you and David having a chat about the provably fair issue? I feel that is a much bigger point that needs addressing over the stupid OP here, I would appreciate if you could take the time to speak to them as I respect what you have to say and feel that you are objective enough to get to the truth.

I'm willing to chat with them about it. I've joined their Discord so they can feel free to message me there, or through any other public communications channels I have (ie Forum PM, Telegram). I think my post outlines all of the issues with it though, so there's likely no need. (though I do want a bug bounty for reporting the issue  Tongue)



My final thoughts on OP's issue: 0.2BTC was a good enough payout for something he shouldn't have been able to win in the first place.

taking a break - expect delayed responses
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January 16, 2019, 06:10:21 PM
Last edit: January 16, 2019, 07:43:10 PM by verusfides
 #150

If the winnings from the bugged game were removed, and the bug bounty was added to the OP's account, he would have sufficient funds to cover the bet that resulted in his jackpot win, and as such, I believe there is a strong argument he should receive the entire jackpot win.

look, this is impossible, The bug bounty was issued only after seizing the jackpot winnings, what obviously means that firstly jackpot was won using the bug money, than the winning was seized and only after the bounty was given. I will upload another screen from our back office (information hidden are usernames of other players affected by bug and given bounty as well)



The bounty was raised only after my involvement to 0.2 adding 0.12 to players account, this is the moment when I thought we were settling and raised bug bounty because player was in rare rage and really felt bad for him and situation was delicate as well.



Hope this is the last one on this topic, we are open to make more files public, that guided us to the decision and is interesting for community.

Cheers,
David.

uhm... Okay but wtf... Lol listen to what you're saying. Is it just me or did you just admit that adrenaline does have a real problem and is not probably fair. So regardless of anything you did it was indeed your site's fault. That's what your saying right doesn't matter about any bets that came after regardless.

Also don't expect everyone to know what kind of game adrenaline is. That was my first time playing a game like that who're you to immediately make the assumption that I'm like every other gambler on the page.

No it would've been voided credit if they addressed it to us as voided credit. Or it would've been FJC if they allowed the game to be only played as FJC which is their free play credit they allowed real money to get poured into the damn thing. Then let me play over and over without doing a damn thing regarding the money. So hows it my fault. Why not just misguide every other gambler too and give them all jackpots and reverse there accounts too. The fact is you let me receive something then took it away saying it's a bug from something that shouldn't have happened. So take responsibility comparing 80,000 to 80 Dollars in my opinion isn't considered being responsible. Feel free to say something in regards to that.

And also you said you'll make more files public. Show the amounts of all accounts you reversed that day. Post amounts after adrenaline. Let's address everyone then. You wanna keep pointing fingers at me saying I'm acting out of hand. Show the results for all gamblers who had any ties with adrenaline bug. Then show results of the amount in their account after they had played with your voided credit and then show the reversal you did. I'm sure the community will understand what I'm getting at.

If you didn't want us to play with voided credit you wouldn't have allowed credit to be used in the first place. It's clearly obvious you guys did this to manipulate your losses.

Imagine that advertising to everyone one day to come play Adrenaline. Introducing new and old gamblers. With a whole crowd of people on your website I'm sure they all touched that game once. Let me guess something. You never gave any bounty to the people that lost on the adrenaline game that day did you? Tell us David. I'm sure you have some lovely explanation for that.

What you're saying states that you forced everyone to comply to your liability rule when none of those players had knowledge, see you guys never once addressed adrenaline would have bugs, yet on reddit you have bug bounties for mine and plinko. Why is it you guys didn't make public adrenaline might have issues when you knew it would?

Do we even have any proof you didn't intentionally malfunction that game to begin with? After all Darkstar pointed out that the game in fact could be manipulated. Maybe you slipped in that erroneous error knowing you could then in fact be entitled to reverse anyone's account as you freely chose. I'd like anyone to try to prove what I'm saying is wrong.

Also one last edit. I deposited 0.0095 BTC that night but that's myself. What about the players who had a higher account balance that night lets say people with 1 BTC or higher and wouldve made higher wagers on other games. I think this is good enough to accuse the casino of safeguarding losses.

You had released your other two games knowing it would come with bugs and you released that in a statement to reddit. Why didn't you release the same statement in reddit regarding adrenaline if you knew it would have a bug, if this was indeed your bug bounty in progress you would've told them about the event would you have not. In those games you knew they would have bugs so doesn't that mean in fact you could've known adrenaline had this kind of bug? My question is who was actually bug abusing was is the players or was it the casino themselves.
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January 16, 2019, 08:07:44 PM
 #151

It's very questionable that a staff would not notice this kind of bug. Regardless of how human they are. The bug in itself is pretty noticeable for anyone who has knowledge of the game correct? So how did absolutely no one on your developer side notice this? You guys are pretending to play stupid aren't you?
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January 16, 2019, 08:49:45 PM
 #152

It's very questionable that a staff would not notice this kind of bug. Regardless of how human they are. The bug in itself is pretty noticeable for anyone who has knowledge of the game correct? So how did absolutely no one on your developer side notice this? You guys are pretending to play stupid aren't you?

I think you're kinda playing stupid too - you won a 200x payout 69 times in a row. The chance of that happening is so minuscule that you probably would have known that there was a bug. Assuming zero house edge, the chance of that happening is 1.694066 * 10^-159 (basically impossible)

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January 16, 2019, 08:55:55 PM
 #153

Their provably fair is actually not provably fair.

If this does indeed turn out to be the case, it is no longer debatable whether or not FortuneJack is a scam and those promoting it should take appropriate action immediately for the good of the forum.  Thank god FortuneJack, Lauda & Hhampuz weren’t able to quickly silence the user making complaints, otherwise this may have never been discovered.

..Stake.com..   ▄████████████████████████████████████▄
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January 16, 2019, 09:03:38 PM
Last edit: January 16, 2019, 09:23:18 PM by verusfides
 #154

It's very questionable that a staff would not notice this kind of bug. Regardless of how human they are. The bug in itself is pretty noticeable for anyone who has knowledge of the game correct? So how did absolutely no one on your developer side notice this? You guys are pretending to play stupid aren't you?

I think you're kinda playing stupid too - you won a 200x payout 69 times in a row. The chance of that happening is so minuscule that you probably would have known that there was a bug. Assuming zero house edge, the chance of that happening is 1.6940659 * 10^-21%
Am I? I didn't know how I won so that playing stupid? Let's say even if I did know. You're gonna tell me that excuses the casino somehow? No right? So why should any of us have to return any funds we won in a casinos attempted underhanded tactic to prevent its own losses from its players. All of a sudden because I revealed it are they willing to retract what they did? I doubt it because if they did they'd be in too much debt because of the amount of damage the bug would've done. So they don't really have a choice but to say they cheated all those players and refuse to return any kind of winning to anybody. Hows that work out for all the players. You think they're all ok with that? We prevented x amount of winnings but in return we'll give you 23 dollars as compensation!

Are you gonna be OK with that? Is a player who had a 3500 dollar account limit be OK with that when they clearly could have won more? Clearly who gains the advantage here? They limit anyone from making any gains for a single day. While sending 23 dollars to each player. This is clearly malicious manipulation.

Tell me Darkstar you pointed out there game was indeed available to manipulation so could there be in fact a way they could make this event seem like a bug yet it was actually the casinos malicious intent to make it seem the program was glitched?
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January 16, 2019, 09:18:09 PM
 #155

Their provably fair is actually not provably fair.

If this does indeed turn out to be the case, it is no longer debatable whether or not FortuneJack is a scam and those promoting it should take appropriate action immediately for the good of the forum.  Thank god FortuneJack, Lauda & Hhampuz weren’t able to quickly silence the user making complaints, otherwise this may have never been discovered.
From what I'm beginning to understand is they had every intention of doing this but since there was a player with about 0.009 BTC who miraculously hit the jackpot on plinko and made a big deal about them not paying out they explained the fact how I couldn't have possibly won with 0.009 BTC expecting you all to believe that's the whole basis of the case, but no that isn't.

The whole basis is the fact that FortuneJack screwed people intentionally with deposits whether big or small. So they should follow that very rule of bugs voiding casino winnings. They should reverse all reversals in the accounts for purposefully abusing the bug which made the accounts to be altered to begin with.
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January 16, 2019, 09:26:24 PM
 #156

Their provably fair is actually not provably fair.

If this does indeed turn out to be the case, it is no longer debatable whether or not FortuneJack is a scam and those promoting it should take appropriate action immediately for the good of the forum.  Thank god FortuneJack, Lauda & Hhampuz weren’t able to quickly silence the user making complaints, otherwise this may have never been discovered.

I'm very certain that it is the case, but that doesn't mean they did it in malice. I'm betting that the flawed provably fair system was due to incompetence, and not malice. All other provably fair games should be provably fair. It's not too rare to see a new casino have a flawed provably fair system.

The correct and non-scammy thing to do here is for FortuneJack to refund all users who had losses playing Adrenaline, as they could have been cheated, while allowing those who made a profit to keep their profit (excluding those who profited from the always win bug however) as they made a profit when the casino could have been cheating, which is fine.

You're a overreacting a bit I think. If FortuneJack does not void all plays on Adrenaline (inline with their own policy of "All wagers and bets shall be void in case of a system failure. The original wager shall be refunded.") at the minimum (optimally they should let those who won keep their winnings), then it might be worth calling them a "scam".

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January 16, 2019, 09:33:26 PM
 #157

Their provably fair is actually not provably fair.

If this does indeed turn out to be the case, it is no longer debatable whether or not FortuneJack is a scam and those promoting it should take appropriate action immediately for the good of the forum.  Thank god FortuneJack, Lauda & Hhampuz weren’t able to quickly silence the user making complaints, otherwise this may have never been discovered.

I'm very certain that it is the case, but that doesn't mean they did it in malice. I'm betting that the flawed provably fair system was due to incompetence, and not malice. All other provably fair games should be provably fair. It's not too rare to see a new casino have a flawed provably fair system.

The correct and non-scammy thing to do here is for FortuneJack to refund all users who had losses playing Adrenaline, as they could have been cheated, while allowing those who made a profit to keep their profit (excluding those who profited from the always win bug however) as they made a profit when the casino could have been cheating, which is fine.
You say new casino. The casinos been up and running for 5 years. There's no way they wouldn't know the differentiation between the two and even then this begs in question as to why there wasn't any notification of a possible bug in this game when they had in fact did so well in notifying bug existences of other games to its players.

Do they not in fact test the games themselves before final release? I'm telling you there's no way in this world that could have gone unnoticed by the numerous amount of developers they had. How could they deny knowledge of its existence when it seems like everybody else could see the problem pretty plainly. Are you saying the developers were as stupid as I am or did they simply turn a blind eye.
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January 16, 2019, 09:46:16 PM
 #158

That's system failure that's not a bug. System failure is a crash on the specific site. Nothing that has to do with a bug in play. They're not inclined to follow that rule.

system failure
A hardware or operating system malfunction. See fault tolerant.

Source: https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/52395/system-failure
https://www.yourdictionary.com/system-failure


malfuncation
1. a failure to function in a normal or satisfactory manner.

satisfactory
1. fulfilling expectations or needs; acceptable, though not outstanding or perfect.

Source: Google Dictionary/OxfordDictionaries



There was a system failure because the game did not function to expectations and needs (being provably fair)

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January 16, 2019, 09:57:39 PM
Merited by Foxpup (4)
 #159

Sorry for the double post, but this is for a different-ish topic than my other post and I'd rather keep them separate.


verusfides went to AskGamblers for mediation:

This is a simple copy and paste of the original draft I had posted on another popular site that mediates online gambling called www.AskGamblers.com You can find the whole conversation thread regarding this incident here. https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/fortunejack-casino-uses-excuse-for-bug-in-one-game-to-refuse-payment-of-another-games-jackpot

This was AskGamblers response:

Considering all the information provided during the course of the complaints process,  AskGamblers Complaints Team believe that FortuneJack Casino management did everything within their powers to compensate accordingly player in this unfortunate event despite being clearly stated within casino terms that in such event, when games are malfunctioning, winnings will be voided:

    Aborted Games:

    1. FortuneJack shall not be held liable for any disruptions due to technical reasons or any other reasons outside of the Company’s control. Refunds are given on a case by case basis only, at the sole discretion of the Company.

    2. We shall bear no responsibility for any damages or losses that may or may not have arisen from the technical workings of the Website, connection issues, loss of data, misuse of the Website by any person, or otherwise.

    3. All wagers and bets shall be void in case of a system failure. The original wager shall be refunded.

    4. If a game is interrupted due to system failure, we will refund the amount wagered or bet made in the game by crediting the Account Holder’s Account. If the Account Holder has accrued credit at the time of the interruption, the Account Holder’s Account shall be credited with the corresponding monetary value. If the account is closed, the amount may be paid in an otherwise approved manner.

In addition, AskGamblers Complaints Team have been provided with valid evidence on behalf the management of FortuneJack Casino, where it is clearly shown that the player accepted casino's offer offered him on December 27th and happily played with the funds.

Based on the above, AskGamblers Complaints Team consider this case as Resolved and it is now officially closed. In case of a disagreement with our decision we remind player that further assistance on this matter could be requested from the relevant regulatory body. 



Given that verusfides has taken compensation, and mediation ruled against them, I think this case can be considered settled on the forum. (if verusfides wishes to proceed with their argument, they should get a lawyer). There's only the issue of fake provably fair left.

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verusfides (OP)
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January 16, 2019, 09:59:02 PM
 #160

That's system failure that's not a bug. System failure is a crash on the specific site. Nothing that has to do with a bug in play. They're not inclined to follow that rule.

system failure
A hardware or operating system malfunction. See fault tolerant.

Source: https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/52395/system-failure
https://www.yourdictionary.com/system-failure


malfuncation
1. a failure to function in a normal or satisfactory manner.

satisfactory
1. fulfilling expectations or needs; acceptable, though not outstanding or perfect.

Source: Google Dictionary/OxfordDictionaries



There was a system failure because the game did not function to expectations and needs (being provably fair)
A system failure can occur because of a hardware failure or a severe software issue, causing the system to freeze, reboot, or stop functioning altogether. A system failure may or may not result in an error being displayed on the screen.

Keyword is freeze, reboot, or stop functioning altogether.

I didn't see the site fall into any non op status the whole time I was there.

And also in that regard I'm asking. How would that not go unnoticed. That should have been noticed in testing grounds. This is clearly negligence your telling me that not once did this error happen during the time they tested and released but miraculously just happened to begin upon its release? That's ridiculous
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