Massive abuse in the Russian section.

[actmyname]

Your premises of the slave or Lauda's pet label are still invalid and have not yet rejected the null hypothesis.

its your opinion and its false

That would imply that your premises are true by definition. That is, we have an axiom which implies "actmyname is a slave" or that "actmyname is Lauda's pet".

I don't think this is the case but we can change the evidence you must provide to this. Provide evidence that this axiom exists in our language.

[suchmoon]

Tell me and I won't have nightmares.

You got the answer. It was mistakenly posted in the wrong thread:

This is just some fucking kind of thing, Malboroza has reached me and wants to find out why I added those whom I added to the exclusions. (I didn’t like them, I don’t like them, I mean the rest and not the main ones) to sleep the bitch wants to go but wants to find out) ) and actmyname can not calm down that I call him a slave)))
And they declare that I did not correctly did that I added respected people to the exclusions)))
 I shit on them standing

[peloso]

evidence you must provide to this.

to whom I owe, I forgive all debts

[actmyname]

I shit on them standing

That's no good. It'll trickle down your leg!

evidence you must provide to this.

to whom I owe, I forgive all debts

If your system of validity is not based on the evidence provided and hence if any premise can be declared true, then it is of no pragmatic use to anyone.

If we're using your system, I could claim "all of the Russian Local board are scammers" as a true statement without any evidence.

[Veleor]

I suppose that the root of the problem is the vast majority of Bitcointalk users are hanging out in local boards only and they know little (or don't know at all) what the trust system is intended for.

In my opinion, members need to get out of their local sections more often, communicate with experienced users and follow the discussions on the forum.

[marlboroza]

You got the answer. It was mistakenly posted in the wrong thread:

Yes, I have just read it. Peloso probably doesn't know it is the same forum. Oh, well, I can go to bed now.

I suppose that the root of the problem is the vast majority of Bitcointalk users are hanging out in local boards only and they know little (or don't know at all) what the trust system is intended for.
In my opinion, members need to get out of their local sections more often, communicate with experienced users and follow the discussions on the forum.

Go there and explain them that trust system is not "like" system.

[peloso]

I have nightmares, dreaming ~ ~ ~ ~. Sometimes in colors.
Tell me and I won't have nightmares.

hey!   go to sleep and relax i not wish you dreams ~

@peloso do you have evidence of my scams, or is that just a lie?

i sleeped and have a dream you are scammer ( i not remember details) anyway you are scammer
may be you have some proof im wrong? can you proven you not scammer? i sure no
so relax your ass and not buthurt please

[actmyname]

i sleeped and have a dream you are scammer ( i not remember details) anyway you are scammer
may be you have some proof im wrong? can you proven you not scammer? i sure no
so relax your ass and not buthurt please

Acceptable.
We will now use your system of beliefs.

I may be a scammer, but I dreamt that the word "scammer" actually means deity. Bow down, cretin!

_{If evidence is not necessary for claims to be valid, then we shall make any claim we choose.}

[Veleor]

Go there and explain them that trust system is not "like" system.

Those who try to understand already know it:
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096402.msg49293624#msg49293624
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095156.msg49274368#msg49274368

Therefore I believe the conflict will be settled through a constructive dialogue after a while.

[Lauda]

Go there and explain them that trust system is not "like" system.

Those who try to understand already know it:
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096402.msg49293624#msg49293624
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095156.msg49274368#msg49274368

Therefore I believe the conflict will be settled through a constructive dialogue after a while.

Nothing will be settled until they actually stop abusing the system and/or acting childish in response to criticism IMO.

[Veleor]

Nothing will be settled until they actually stop abusing the system and/or acting childish in response to criticism IMO.

In my opinion experienced users should lead by example and to show a willingness to compromise.
Many members (not only in mentioned section) aren't taking "Trust settings" with due seriousness and they need gently explain that such behavior can harm the forum community.

Theymos foresaw this situation and wrote that it is better to settle the conflict instead to engage in constant disputes.

I still discourage retaliatory ratings, and with these changes I encourage people to try to "bury the hatchet" and de-escalate rather than trying to use any increased retaliatory power you now have.

[madnessteat]

This war is like schizophrenia. Nothing can be proven, it's unprovable. Any of us can send merit for the post we like. Any one of us can trust whoever he wants. We are all different people and have the right to think individually. This war, we only destroy the helpful forum users. In fact, the DT system does not protect users, but only arranges war.

Did we come to the bitcointalk for this?


Update

[DabLjat]

This war is like schizophrenia. Nothing can be proven, it's unprovable. Any of us can send merit for the post we like. Any one of us can trust whoever he wants. We are all different people and have the right to think individually. This war, we only destroy the helpful forum users. In fact, the DT system does not protect users, but only arranges war.

Did we come to the bitcointalk for this?

They just enjoy their impunity and think they can do anything. Let's see what happens when for the majority of Russian users of the forum, their profiles will look like:

In the "Russian black list" will be made all the accounts seen in the genocide of Russian on the forum!

[Lauda]

Nothing will be settled until they actually stop abusing the system and/or acting childish in response to criticism IMO.

In my opinion experienced users should lead by example and to show a willingness to compromise.

Who exactly are the experienced users that should lead by example in the Russian section? The two moderators that can't even speak up but would rather side up with their own "people" even when they are in the wrong? TheFuzzStone who is preaching anti-DT propaganda (as a former DT1 member) and is playing games with his own list out of spite?

Many members (not only in mentioned section) aren't taking "Trust settings" with due seriousness and they need gently explain that such behavior can harm the forum community.

Theymos foresaw this situation and wrote that it is better to settle the conflict instead to engage in constant disputes.

I still discourage retaliatory ratings, and with these changes I encourage people to try to "bury the hatchet" and de-escalate rather than trying to use any increased retaliatory power you now have.

I see two ways out of this: 1) They need to back down from their stupidity/collusion/manipulation and whatever it is that they are trying to do now. 2) All of them get excluded from all levels of DT by a supermajority of DT1 members, essentially leaving maybe 1 legitimate Russian DT2 member.
There are 3 now I believe, with 1 on his way out.

[DabLjat]

I see two ways out of this: 1) They need to back down from their stupidity/collusion/manipulation and whatever it is that they are trying to do now. 2) All of them get excluded from all levels of DT by most DT1 members, essentially leaving maybe 1 legitimate Russian DT2 member.

And I see 1 way out of this situation:

1. We will choose from those who are or create a new user (for example RuTrast).
2. Create a pinned topic in the Russian Newbie section on the importance of changing DefaultTrust to RuTrast
3. Add to the RuTrast Trust list DefaultTrust
4. Add a ~tilde to all who observed in the unreasonable oppression of Russian in the forum.
~TMAN
~Lauda
~owlcatz
~yahoo62278
~actmyname
Maybe someone I missed, but it's never too late to add.
5. Add to the list of all respected and trusted users ru locale.
6. Add to the list is adequate and is not seen in the manipulation of the list of representatives of the DT2.

Once you've destroyed the trust system, we'll create our own.

[Lauda]

2. Create a pinned topic in the Russian Newbie section on the importance of changing DefaultTrust to RuTrast
-snip-

That would be abuse of staff power. 

[o_e_l_e_o]

Any one of us can trust whoever he wants.

Right. You can add anyone you want to your own trust list, and no one is going to stop you from doing that. If you want to add only your friends to your trust list, you are welcome to do so. If you and your friends want to have personal trust lists made up of only the most prolific scammers on the forum, you are welcome to do that too. What you can't expect is for everyone else to sit by and let you and your friends add these scammers to the Default Trust list, and therefore directly cause harm to newbies who do not know any better.

You can have any trust list you want, but if you are going to have a completely irresponsible one, expect to be excluded from DT. It's as simple as that.

[DabLjat]

That would be abuse of staff power.  

TMAN, you're coming across as a real asshole here. AFAICT, that topic is highly analogous to the English discussions. The main addition is that they're looking to get more local representation in DT1, which is very reasonable. I'd prefer if people not treat trust lists as an election, but if I had wanted nobody to ever think/talk/strategize about how trust lists affect DT1 selection, I would've kept the DT1 criteria secret.

They quickly found a quote from me where I previously documented that usernames starting with tildes are handled:

"If you want to trust someone whose name begins with a tilde, prefix their name with a backslash."   тe ecли вы xoтитe выcкaзaть дoвepиe юзepy ~XXX  в cвoй cпиcoк пpямoгo дoвepия зaпишитe \~XXX, ecли жe вы xoтитe выcкaзaть eмy нeдoвepиe зaпишитe ~\~XXX.

So they knew right away that the ~DefaultTrust account was harmless.

I see nothing concerning with xandry's actions there. Nothing there comes close to warranting deletion. Even if someone was openly talking about trying to form a strategic DT1 manipulation group for the express purpose of undermining the system, such a topic should not be deleted; rather, I'd look to handle this within the DT1 selection criteria.

Let's see

To fight the Nazis is the fate of the Russian people!

[Foxpup]

Let's see what happens when for the majority of Russian users of the forum, their profiles will look like:

I'm guessing we'll see Russians targeted by known scammers whose negative trust is hidden from everyone whose trust lists are built on petty vengeance instead of an actual need to tag scammers, so don't say you weren't warned.

[DabLjat]

I'm guessing we'll see Russians targeted by known scammers whose negative trust is hidden from everyone whose trust lists are built on petty vengeance instead of an actual need to tag scammers, so don't say you weren't warned.

If you think that Russian fools, it is not so. It is likely we will by default add all users lists DT1 and DT2 trust RuTrust. And eliminate the tilde for the most ardent Nazis!