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I only noticed this by chance as I am trying to teach myself a cyrillic language and happened to see a post publicly talking about exclusions and inclusions to get more Russians on DT.

I am excluding all the below and am slowly translating and tagging the obvious manipulators. (Staff are in that thread which is shocking)

one quote I liked - "But it is necessary to strengthen the position, since several people will be a little easier to show their strength"

~Alex_Sr
~peloso
~xenon131
~Rooivalk
~chimk
~esmanthra
~MaoChao
~DabLjat
~Polkeins
~madnessteat
~biom33
~Xal0lex

These are the guys they are talking about adding to trust to increase scores

~goran
~Provok
~Slasher
~Whitemanwhite
~TheFuzzStone
~zoldberg
~poptop
~be.open
~fzkto
~Gary levanevskii
~3meek
~chimk
~leonello
~MoxnatyShmel
~wh1rlw1nd
~xandry
Figured I might as well get this shit public as I am gonna have half the red army after me, I don't care if they manage to exclude me from DT, I just figure others need to be made aware of this behavior

TMAN doesn't need your merit don't waste it.

Great find

I quite literally predicted this would happen:


All I can hope is that theymos will manually exclude them from DT1. From PM:

Guys, if this topic was something wrong I would not put a link to it:


This is the topic where there is an exchange of views on the new trust system.

This is analogous to the topic DefaultTrust changes, but only in Russian

Did he tell you he doesn't need it lol. There's a cold war going on between those legendary users on merit. e.g LoyceV won't tell you but he'll love it, if he can reclaim his position as 3rd highest merited users over DdmrDdmr, it shows how contributive you have been.

---

Nice catch TMAN +1

Merit isn't a ranking tool based on need, but an appreciation of work, and the provision of information for the community. Based on this, I gave TMAN 5 merits.

I might support him as well, by copying his exclusion list.

A notable suggestion by the user peloso (post #47):
He's willing to overthrow several thousand ratings on scammers in order to get "strength". If that isn't a sign of malice and collusion, I don't know what is. Naturally, he's also a (caught) merit abuser (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=81995). So far I have only tagged him, but it is likely that more users deserve it.

If you believe that publicly colluding is analgous to the DT changes announcement thread, then you should stay far away from DT.

---

I'm most disappointed that xandry read the thread (and naturally understood it), and kept quiet about it.

I always found the Russian section a bit irritating for me. I even had a topic against one of the moderator long ago. What I learnt was that they basically favor each others to take advantages of anything. I will find the topic and post it here.

---

Update:
Here: [staff] xandry: may I ask an explanation? Response received!
 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4330297.0)
PS: Seems like you woke up now. I woke up long ago. Around in May 2018.

---

Update:
I reported it  :P
no I did not seriously.

Each user can write anything-see who trusts this user and many things will become clear to you!

And here is my post-sorry for the quick translation!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096402.msg49257170#msg49257170

xandry has been posting in the same thread. This is fucking ridiculous - staff members letting this shit happen? and they say that Lauda has a fucking gang.

You can write whatever you want, but be ready to face consequences. That thread is full of collusion, and given that we can see everyone's trust list it is clear that the users have agreed to it.


A similar thing happened with the Turkish section. I strongly believe that they keep each other's abuse hidden/protect each other because of it.

I never looked in the Turkish so I am not sure about them but I did some deep investigations in the Russian section back that time when I used to investigate merit abusing. What I learnt that they work together and support each others to kick out others who they don't like.

PS: I even found people leaving me red trust saying I am snitching the forum, it's not there anymore though but there is a post. I will bring the post here. Give me few times.

---

update:

Here...
This was a guy from Russian section. He left a red tag to me too but it's not in my trust list anymore. He deleted it I guess.

---

Update:
Check the feedback page: http://prntscr.com/m8d9gl
This should confirm that he is from Russian Section although I can't read the language but looking at the characters it seems Russian.

Read carefully the topic and you will see that all problems are rooted in misunderstanding the system of trust on the part of some users.

I'm just waiting for someone to start screaming "Racist" at us. ::)

I did. While I have not seen signs of direct collusion from you, I have seen it from others. They are prone to 'mutual inclusions and mallicious exclusions', which also tells me that they are pro trust-farming.

I can't but to mention the merit exchange between Alex_Sr and Nikisa.

What? Where did I talk about it?

Can you translate also the reason for what they need Russians on DT, please?

LOL, there, everyone just shares his opinion and peloso speaks about that because has red trust. Did you see that someone support him?

So you want to say that they cannot talk about DT members? I saw many threads about Lauda here in Meta, it can be found in LoyceV's topic:
All topics about Lauda in Meta and Reputation (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095631.0)

Sorry, but how you can letting this shit happen?

---

Sorry, Lauda it's just for example, not personall.

You did not - they were trying to manipulate to get you on the list - as a staff member you should be shutting down conversations like that, if not you are part of the conspiracy

EDIT - and you let this happen on your watch. (translated by google)

https://i.imgur.com/JFrIFjy.png?1

you didn't remove the post? didn't neg the account?  what if it had worked?

They're doing the same things as you, guys. Simple example:
xxx: Hey, folks! Let's add users 1 and 2 to distrust list because they wan't to be in DT!
yyy: Yeah! Let's do it!
(crowd): Kill'em all!

And, please translate the reason why they wanna at least one or two Russians in DT.

Why I should to interfere? Everyone forms the list of trust as wants.

---

Sorry for my English, i still learn it.

I am not aware of any other posts where people are colluding to get people onto the DT-1 ranking, there are lots of discussion about adding people into trust lists, who will be eligible - who needs to "vote" etc etc in that thread, but almost as alarming is my snip above showing a user trying to attack the trust network by setting up ~defaulttrust as a username - you were in that thread, you commented in that thread - why the fuck didn't you do something about it?

That whole thread from the 14th on looks shady as hell and if you cannot see that you do not deserve to be a moderator of this forum, I dont care if I have half the red army on this forum gunning for me, this behavior is not acceptable from members or you.

Because i always remember that trust is not moderated and i should not to interfere with formation of someone's trust list.
User "~defaulttrust" can't attack the trust network and he got response about it. So i don't think it's a problem.

The big problem that you doesn't translate all posts in that thread so you imagine conspiracy theory. I see that you even don't understanding what about this thread.

Reminds me of:
https://i.imgur.com/30bFCkN.jpg
Whataboutism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism)


Now, I'm not surprised even a bit about this. Even one tiny bit!!!
We know about the huge merit trading happening in the Russian section, we know about the army of bots ranking up between them, the hundred of ICO scams coming from it.

Was anyone genuinely surprised that this idea will take root also?

I don't want to go back to my past of merit investigation. I have had it enough mate. I remember I had some investigations for the user Alex_Sr receiving merits from a moderator.

We are not abusing anything. Just spreading the word about changes in trust system.

---

So you do response quickly. Last time when I wanted to get your attention - it took you around a month to repond my topic.


The topic was create on (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4330297.msg38817096#msg38817096) may 28 2018.

Hmm...

There is no such a topic you say? Isn't that the topic? I created mine topic by her example...

I'm well aware, the thread was innocent enough until the 14th when your boy got excluded - then the little monkeys went off the rails and you did fuck all to sort it out. 

You are Paid to make the forum a better place, you did not do your job to an acceptable level. You did nothing to discourage the exclusion of people who have thousands of ratings, do you have a personal agenda here?

Yes, quite many. Endorsing mutual inclusions is also colluding. Do you really want someone to dump all your trust lists and merit histories? Just don't try to upset marlboroza. :D You should have mentioned it to someone, somewhere after reading it (e.g. opened a thread about it).

The problem isn't the thread itself, it lies in the content of the posts.

My avatar is not a cat. Both statements are equally honest.

I'm waiting until someone says something in the lines of "they may also be doing this in another local section, so why are you only looking at us?". 

taikuri13
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1855828
https://i.imgur.com/YVR3SJE.png


Spotika4
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1062160
https://i.imgur.com/42FKSP1.png

Lol, for two years he was a member of this forum and sent only one rating and suddenly 3 on the same day....and in English.

This is Farmville 2.2


I guess it's time to poke the Turkish and Indonesian section a bit also... ;D ;D


LE:
Oh...lols again:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2197723

https://i.imgur.com/ywYNVtx.png

Do you really think that if a group of people really want to conspire and start manipulating the trust system they will create a topic and will tell everyone about it?

Haaaa.... Under the table....

Do you really think so? Why so naive?

Just excluded him too.

Nah, this is the evil catbat witch's fault! A good starting point for Trust Lists [The Cult of Lauda] My Trust List (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5098579). I might add elaborations one day just as Loyce did.

I expect them to be worse, especially Indonesian.

We are not abusing anything. ::)

You're the naive one, thinking that established forum members are going to let this fly.

Yes, those are my reviews.
There were more (16).

But the Russian legendary MaoChao and Dark Star_ showed me my mistake.




I admitted my mistake.

I did not run to remove from my list.
I did not act out of revenge.

I know marlboroza as a talented bench investigator.
I read the Lauda profile and studied.
I'm not familiar with yogg (absolutely)
I know suchmoon as a makes the forum cleaner and a cosmic sense of humor.
I know yahoo62278 as one of the best bounty managers.

And from the fact that they removed me from the list - my opinion about them has not changed.

Those people who received my feedback (6):
xtraelv - The person from DT1, the forum's investigator and historian
chimk - merit source, the man who explains the idea and meaning of Bitcoin.
esmanthra - merit source, which explains the rules, translates them into Russian and helps the forum enormously in the fight against shitposting and scam.
xenon131 - A security specialist who explains the Bitcoin storage device explains how to work safely on the network.
TheFuzzStone - I know this person from other forums.
temarazin - The deal is not in this forum, I received a service, then paid for it (more than once).

Thanks for admitting to manipulating trust to get more members onto DT, proving that I was correct there bud.

The quantity of reports, as well as activity of users at a forum decreased. And i can said many thanks to user Piggy (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=188198) for notification bot (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5023605.0)

Looks like on the 3rd time i need to translate text instead of you... People said that it would be good to have the Russian-speaking person in DT to tag known scammers, account sellers and merit sellers, because many of victims don't speak English and they can't explain to DT them problems. Of course they were upset when their one behind another was thrown out from DT for some strange reason (I didn't read a detail).
And then you say that they are participants of some criminal plot.

I do what i should. Any can discuss DT users and post his trust list.

Sorry, i don't understand about what ratings you talking about.

I don't mind. My merit history mistakes was explained in mdayonliner thread and I try not to make them anymore; trust list can be viewed anytime.

no you didn't do what you should - and you read in detail as you quoted a post then added your thoughts.

stop lying about this, there is obvious blatant collusion after the 14th when your "comrade" was excluded - then mob rule came along, some scammer tried to break the whole of DT with ~defaulttrust and I still see that now - why no ban? why no tag?

you are not suitable to do this job, god knows what else goes on in that section. And no I am not racist or whatever else you want to say, I was one of the members who added Alex_SR onto DT.

TBH I wouldn't want moderators to start removing posts on topics like that or otherwise interfering in trust system matters. We're supposed to police ourselves. I'll be excluding some of the obviously unsuitable members, even if they're not malicious but merely misguided. That's all we really need to do. The attempts to game the system are fully expected and even if that thread didn't exist it could still happen via PMs, telegram, etc so we better be ready and check and re-check those DT1/2 newbie lists.

That's the behaviour of someone caught red-handed IMO.

You admitted your mistakes in less than 2 posts without any arguments?

That's not a mistake, that's trying to fraud and giving up after getting caught.

Please, re-read my post:
It means I don't read a detail in English thread the reason why TheFuzzStone was excluded from DT.

Lies - Trust farming and public manipulation to get your "comrades" onto the DT network.

He should have never been there to begin with. If they respond emotionally to one of "their" getting excluded, then they should all be excluded far away from DT. Just the usage of that wording symbolized gang.

Indeed. I think he meant that xandry as a somewhat more reputable member and staff member should have pointed this out to the rest of us.

Post in Meta or talk to other mods those are expected actions of a person of responsibility. I do think the ~Defaulttrust user should of been banned and post removed though - that is shoddy as hell leaving that there - what if It actually worked?

Distrust all users only because they posts in thread that you can't even read properly? Well done.
I never include or exclude from my trust-network only because someone advise me that.

Meanwhile nobody (who can change trust to red) cares about hundreds of russian farmers who make tons of shitposting and send merit each other.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5052292.msg49246205#msg49246205
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095568.msg49229368#msg49229368
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095568.msg49179640#msg49179640
etc.

Indeed. I've confirmed with theymos that it can't work and that you need to escape the exclusion character to trust a prefixed (~) username. The account should have been nuked and the registration of such accounts disabled.

We had a good approximation of what was actually written in there. I don't need to be able to read the original if the approximation is good.

Right, and you've contacted people about this how many times? Tagging zero merit newbies that are only shitposters is pointless because:
1) DT members try to avoid tagging someone solely because they are a shitposter (theymoses 'rule').
2) It's a waste of time.

People who make these reports should separately report groups where there is no merit and where merit is being abused.

not all users - please do not deflect as it is a shitty tactic

This was my translation too. Well done brother TMAN

Knowledge comrade, once you have the knowledge you have the power?

Merit farming, Trust farming and collusion to disrupt DT..

but that's ok, as you don't start pyramid schemes and you don't shitpost? listen here Ivan it don't work like that.

there's no collusion, you idiots ;D. We just responded to the call for help so that we have a representative with specific knowledge of the Russian locale. Your tantrum reminds me of this trial. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYJZqJezjz4

do you recognize yourself as a Prosecutor?

They are all cool at the start, skip to the 14th to experience the sand in vagina quotes

LOOOL :D :D :D lauda you so stupid  ;D ;D and your dogs also stupid tman and other dogs)
you tagged me))) i so happy
SCAMMER lauda tagged me ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D that do funny

hey lauda! i didnt abused trust system :) i abused your ass :D

I only read russian with google translate but have to admit there is something shitty in the thread.

They do seem to talk like a mafia.
"What do we do now that we have a DT1"
"Let's all team up to get those ones down"
"Let's all trust this one so he reaches DT1"

But is it against the rules? Not so sure...

TMAN, you're coming across as a real asshole here. AFAICT, that topic is highly analogous to the English discussions. The main addition is that they're looking to get more local representation in DT1, which is very reasonable. I'd prefer if people not treat trust lists as an election, but if I had wanted nobody to ever think/talk/strategize about how trust lists affect DT1 selection, I would've kept the DT1 criteria secret.

They quickly found a quote from me where I previously documented that usernames starting with tildes are handled:
So they knew right away that the ~DefaultTrust account was harmless.

I see nothing concerning with xandry's actions there. Nothing there comes close to warranting deletion. Even if someone was openly talking about trying to form a strategic DT1 manipulation group for the express purpose of undermining the system, such a topic should not be deleted; rather, I'd look to handle this within the DT1 selection criteria.

Sorry, I mean all users who participated in thread. Bad English.

okay, but it is not obvious for user who just try to make local board a little cleaner, isn't it? Merit abuse and hundreds of posts with low value from farmers it's same shit for me.

According what you did, you had not.

---

Translation:
As I see users have different interpretations of the trust system. My interpretation:
Trust ≠ reputation ≠ likes
The user may not have a forum reputation, but you can trust him (for example, you have a large history of finance deals with him). In fact, if I paint user trust to green, I respond positively to the statement “I trust this user my finance (I send money first) before I receive a product or service from him”.

Now tell me what's wrong with my interpretation?

Fair point, but I feel as I had added Alex to my trust list (aware he was Russian and those guys needed rep) I was pretty pissed at that thread and the blatant manipulation going on there.

and I didn't ask for the thread to be deleted - please quote me where I did? I asked for action by the Mod - none has happened as he has admitted, if you think that is cool - then who am I to say, its your show fella

Ops! Language LOL

Good to see that you do leave your comment is in forum politics. I thought you never cared unless there are any direct interest for you like Alia LOL

---

And we are the puppets?

I wasn't referring to you specifically but to stuff like this:


I'm also concerned by the lack of distinction between trust ratings and trust lists. This needs to be understood very well by DT1 members in particular so I'll be excluding users who don't seem to get it.

Dear TMAN, I'm curious why did you decide that I am with someone in collusion? In this topic https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096402.0 we just share our DT0 lists. Who do you think I can trust, if most of the information I get from the Russian thread? I believe that you made a mistake with your knowledge of the Russian language!

Here is the translation of my messages, sorry for my English:

I'm going through the Russian thread and checking users who posted or have been mentioned there. It seems that there is a lack of understanding (to put it mildly) as to what the trust system is supposed to do, particularly the differences between trust ratings and trust lists.

---

DabLjat (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2197723) (the OP) - on Jan 14 briefly appeared in DT2 and immediately sent a number of positive trusts to the members of own trust list. On Jan 16 sent many negatives to an account farm (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5052292.0). Wants a Russian person in DT1 for unknown/unspecified reason.

---

xenon131 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1037701) - seems to think that anyone not explicitly trusted by theymos is a "manipulator":
And this "manipulation" sentiment is echoed throughout the thread as one of the reasons to vote Russians into DT1.

---

TheFuzzStone (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=679341) - less than a week didn't have a clue about the trust system and DT and how it works. This was also reflected in the thread this user later created in Meta (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096740.msg49211343#msg49211343).

---

taikuri13 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1855828) -  on Jan 14 briefly appeared in DT2 and immediately sent a number of positive trusts without references. Appears to have a better grasp of the trust system and DT1 selection than most other users in that thread. This is post #31 and probably the first mention of what xandry was referring to.

---

peloso (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=81995) - appears to have cheated bounties - see favdesu's feedback. Appears to have traded trust and merits with alts or close acquaintances - see actmyname's feedback. Campaigning (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096402.msg49231550#msg49231550) in DT1 voting.

---

chimk (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1202061) - seems to have a measured approach to the topic. Seems to think spammers need red trust (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096402.msg49240554#msg49240554). Has not left a single trust rating but there is talk of voting this user into DT1.

---

esmanthra (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1764764) - has not sent any trust ratings. Understands the trust system quite well and has posted a detailed explanation of it. A minor error I spotted:
AFAIK merits have no effect on exclusions.

---

(work in progress)

---

I would caution against judging these users on their tone or their rhetoric. Cultural difference is a real thing, and important nuances can get lost in translation. Let's focus more on the facts.

Overall it seems that the Russian board quickly went from having no DT members to voting someone into DT1 to having them excluded so there's some resentment but they still have a few DT2 members for the stated purpose of tagging local scammers etc. It doesn't look like they have a mature candidate for DT1 though. That's just my personal opinion.

RIP TMAN; but this is something that we all knew. :D

It isn't for you, which is why you should not be part of DT. I've tried suggesting that we should start tagging excessive spammers a long time ago, but it was ultimately rejected by theymos despite the support from many DT members.

I do, and I stand by my tags (which were handed out only to two users that I've spotted in that thread).

Given how hard it was to get added into DT2 up until recently, I'd even state that they almost have no mature candidates for that layer either. Nice analysis though.

you are dog of lauda you are lie
actmyname liye and favdesu use drugs ( hard drugs as lauda) lies too
all of you is liar mafia
may be i  cheat your mother's ass but  not remember
you say about boutny )) where ? and when?

why my exluded (~) lists is so stuped?

However you support OP (7 merit) who include all participants of thread in 1 distrust list regardless of their opinion and experience.

Haste makes waste.

Never hidden that fact!



Woof Woof

The list in OP is a bit excessive; I was more conservative and excluded about ~12 users. This may drop a bit with more analysis. Referring to opinion and experience in general is pointless here.

Yes, cats keep dogs as pets.

I have added and removed and added people, quite happy to change my list repeatedly - I have stated numerous times that I am not always right - hence the post, others will come and chime in and help deal with it - DT is a democracy and if the consensus is that there are legitimate posters I will be changing my list (I still believe that AlexSr should be on DT, but until this all goes through the wash I cannot add him back)

Looks like there is going to be a mutiny if it wasn't put in the public. As careless as leftest they were caught.  
There is nothing much being a DT. You can do as much as they can without having that green trust anyway. Alarming that a staff like xandry is silent about it when he understood what is there in plain text.

You have a serious lack of understanding of what merits are for. This is not a facetwit "like" or an endorsement. TMAN made what's called a "good post". Brought up an important topic. Even though theymos called him an asshole for the way he did it, I think there is still a valid concern how people with no clue about the trust system get suddenly voted into DT1.


No, you said specifically that if a user is not in theymos trust list but was included into DT1 then it's a "manipulation". That was said more than once and combined with campaigning to exclude the "manipulators" so it can't be a coincidence. I'm quite certain I have conveyed your opinion accurately.

English is my third language and the first two are synthetic so please feel free to fuck off with your conjectures at any time. This has nothing to do with grammar.

And you still can not understand that you do not decide anything here... fine by me.

I will continue to spread information among Bitcointalk users about changes in trust system:

• DefaultTrust changes  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095156.0)

---

• A short introduction to the Trust System (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096445.0)

---

• [Explained] Importance of Custom Trust List (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096348.0)

---

• Customized Trust Network – Interactive tool to see who we trust/distrust (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096207.0)

---

• [Infographic] Leaving Feedback vs Custom Trust List (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095944.0)

---

These links are public, and therefore do not violate the rules of the forum, one of them is from theymos.

---

https://i.imgur.com/8HYXNu3.png

Red trust + lie.

@TMAN, except translator use https://context.reverso.net/ to understand a little about what is going on in reference. But simply -- I don't care.  :)

So, I received a negative trust from you, because I'm spreading the word about theymos post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095156.0), so I will quote theymos:

If you have at least a drop of logic, then you will guess what this quote is for.


#MakeYourOwnDT0

In the context of the topic I think you can be interested in this article: "8 compelling cats that changed Russian culture" (https://www.rbth.com/arts/2017/05/22/8-compelling-cats-that-changed-russian-culture_767529).

In the well known Russian cartoon the one cat often said: "Guys, let's live in friendship!"  :)


https://i.imgur.com/uovykIi.jpg

friendship with scammers from ny signature? impossible  ;)
also i like cat's blood ::)

freedom of speech in russian  ::)

Will read it in a bit. It seems that the cat's cult needs to work some magic again!

Is this supposed to be some kind of threat?

All I see is freedom of being shady in that thread.

So when I learned English did I change my way of thinking? Or do the Russian morphemes make you lie, i.e. say there was manipulation when there was none?

Well, aren't there plenty of other DT1 members that are neutral who could put them back in? All that needs to be done is to persuade enough of them to take affirmative action.

Every community/board/section would want to have a DT member who will " protect " their members by tagging scammers, if non of the DT members here go to Arabic, Russian or many other boards, how do those local boards benefit from the current DT list?

The DT list now is the result of members who trust each other for a reason, if the Russian members feel like they can not trust or benefit from the current DT list they have the right to want someone they trust on DT, as well as the right to exclude DT members they do not trust.

I am too lazy to quote anything , but a few of the current DT members were discussing including and excluding some members based on "points" they see fit in this topic >https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095156.0  which i see nothing wrong with.

while this could be an attempt to exclude every current DT member and take full control of the trust system, it still does not qualify as an abuse IMO. i am pretty sure the new system will have to go through some updates and changes soon. let us just see how things go, after all, manual intervention by theymos is always possible , so nothing major to worry about here.

You'd have to be out of your mind to put the currently excluded people back in. That's why it doesn't work for them. They have no viable candidate for DT1.

I have excluded TheFuzzStone so it would appear that you're saying I'm Lauda's sockpuppet, is that right? Just making sure.

A word of advice: by the time of next DT1 vote find a candidate that at least knows something about the trust system and how it should and shouldn't be used instead of a nice guy who sends trust ratings to other nice guys. You have two weeks, plenty of time. If you vote someone like Fuzz in again you'll likely get another exclusion. Another thing to keep in mind is that if you keep voting for Fuzz who has very little chance then you're essentially wasting your limited votes, while exclusions are unlimited.

LOL, no, I wouldn't go as far as "theymos trusts". I'd say "theymos tolerates" me is more accurate.

Again, keep in mind that TheFuzzStone needed only one exclusion to be kicked off. So Lauda doesn't matter (sorry sir puppetmaster). You need to find someone trusted by other DT1s enough to be included in their lists or at least someone with enough clue to not trigger a single exclusion.

and process is started :)

     That would be ideal. However, how is a new member who has only been around for a month or so supposed to know who to place on their trust list? Or is the reality that we have faced some sort of stagnation and all lower ranked members are actually alts of more established members. Isn't the point of default trust to give a heads up to people who haven't gotten or witnessed enough hard knocks yet to know any better?

You're shooting yourselves in the foot with this. The Russian board now has more DT2 members than it used to but instead of using them you'll throw a fit and agitate for DefaultTrust removal even though it's obvious that most users in that trust discussion thread had little or no clue as to how it's supposed to work, let alone most of Russian users in general. All because you "elected" an unqualified person and feel slighted by the "English".

I mean there is nothing wrong with a custom list, just that you seem to be doing for the wrong reasons and with users like peloso participating in this process it will probably end not well.

 Your session timed out while posting. Please try to re-submit your message.
Every day I learn something new.

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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096402.0;all


#1 DabLjat explains 1) how to modify trust list. 2) They posted their trust list and suggest others to do the same and also as I understand, they suggested everyone to create custom trust list

#2 TheFuzzStone said thanks to DabLjat for including them in trust list, but they also asked DabLjat why they did it, they didn't cooperate(probably mean trade or something)

#3 Dabljat respect TFS

#4 TFS asked Dabljat what will change for russian community if someone there get DT1 status

#5 don't understand. Dabljat said there is not a single Russian member in DT1.

#6 TFS doesn't know how DT works. Other parts are lost in translation.

#7 discussing exactly this Theymos's post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095156.msg49163910#msg49163910 and literally listed people the same way as theymos did.

#8 xsenon "how to see someones trust list"

#9 @Dabljat something about "local should be united" but can be wrong translation.

#10 xenon something about exclude people you don't trust with ~ and include people who you trust.

#11 xenon tomorrow is voting for DT

#12 TFS to xenon, you can remove DefaultTrust and manually add people to trust list. "If I understand correctly, if you remove DefaultTrust from your trust list, you won't see ratings from DT1 and DT2 members"

#13 Dabljat Yes, you understand correctly.

#14 TFS "can it be considered as manipulation of trust system?  :D"

#15 xenon, if I translated this correctly said, something about "few forum members took advantage because everyone is "running" on default trust".  Suggested to remove DefaultTrust, and if I understand correctly to exclude some users who they don't trust...or who manipulate  because if they don't exclude users they will have 0 instead of -1. Can be wrong translation.

16,17,18 irrelevant for this thread in my opinoin

#20 biom33 some random questions about DT

#22 TFS said his english is very bad and some users attacked him in meta because of his thread.

#23 DabLjat said Lauda doesn't want them(probably meant Russian) in DT.

#24 xenon thinks that there is group who controls DT and that that they think Russians are inferior. Also said that he wouldn't waste time discussing with that group.

#25 TFS said that it seems like they think Russians are inferior.

#26 TFS breaks forum rules. Also linked theymos's post from "new DT" thread and asked "how to understand this"

#27 taikuri13 explains theymos's post.

#28, 29 discussing theymos's post.

#30 Dabljat said that local "candidates" for DT are xandry chimk esmanthra but non of them has trust list.

#31 taikuri13 believes TheFussZone should be added to this list. Also mentioned that trust is "personal choice" and no one should ask someone to include/exclude people you trust from trust network.

#33 Alex_Sr supports TheFussZone and added them to their trust list.

#34 MaoChao, I belive he said trust system =/= trade system.

#35 - 45 discussing trust system, nothing wrong here

#36 TFS, well, you can click links posted in thread.

#37 peloso: "Lauda is junky and bitch, cmon, lets all add this to trust list ~Lauda"  
Posted his list and excluded many members of current DT form his trust network.

#38 TFS said "it is not good to be angry, I will still publish news about Monero. I suggest everyone to set his trust list based on their "conscience". This could be wrongly translated, it can also mean "put people you trust on your trust list and distrust people you don't trust"

#39-50 discussing about system

#51 TFS about his trust list, he trust people he put in his list. I won't translate other parts because it can have hidden meaning but also it doesn't mean it does.

#52 taikuri, if I understand correctly, said, it is good to have DT in Russian because they won't need to post in english section reports about bounty abusers, cheaters, scammers, account farmers, they will be able to do it in Russian board and tag accordingly.

#53 Rooivalk posted his trust list.

#54 peloso want's Russian united and suggested everyone to exclude these members:
http://archive.is/yNmaO#selection-18349.0-18369.7 unedited post.

#55 xandry said "put reference link to your trust ratting" nothing wrong here. Didn't comment above post.

#56 chimk ordinary post.

#57 Alex_sr points farming ring they exposed and something about trust system. Normal post.

#58 xanon - links thread where it is explained how to see someone's trust list.

#58 Alex_sr said it is easier to see someone trust list if you add person to your trust network and click on trust.

#59 random shitpost

#60 - #73 discussing trust system

#74 MaoChao created his trust list.

#75 - 90 discussing trust system, merit abuse, farming accounts, trading accounts etc.

#91 peloso trolling

#92 xenon131 discussing trust system. Quoted theymos as well.

That's it from me, I don't see anything wrong in this discussion except peloso person is trying to manipulate with people and some shitting on Lauda. So far it seems like regular discussion.
@ LoyceV can you scrap trust lists of all accounts mentioned in topic?

Edit #2) that is 92/157 posts. I didn't translate most of other posts.

you say peloso trying manipulate but you lie
i see here your manipulation like this  (~ takav mrak ) and this (~ Triz ) there is no such names
next time please dont lie
also i not shitting Lauda a just said she is scammer and it fact and true even if you not like it

That was obviously just an issue with translation. Takav mrak = suchmoon and Triz = aTriz. It's hardly a lie.

Also, you are clearly trying to manipulate the trust system:

Here you are saying that anyone who wants can message you, and you will add them to your trust list if they also agree to add you to theirs. If that isn't blatant manipulation, then I don't know what is.

I translated thread from Russian to Croatian and then to English. Above should be quotation, but accidentally, I quoted translated post, I mean I forget to put it under quotation. Will edit post.

You are trying to manipulate, that is obvious.

Not to mention that if you remove DefaultTrust then excluding individual DT1 members is meaningless unless you're in DT1 yourself. This seems to be peloso's attempt to convince other users to distrust actmyname and others who neg-trusted him, not a genuine attempt at building custom lists.

so you wrong translated from english to english :D  and making mistake
call me manipulator? that verry funny ;D ;D
anyway.. it so interesting for me to know  :D how im manipulate ? you mean my signature ? or my trust list that i published?


i hope you know what to do when you seems  :D
not other users :o just proven scammers ( lauda) and assholes ( tman e.t.c)

I have nothing to do right now, so..
I hope I'm not invading anyone's privacy since all data is public.

#1 Alex_Sr = DefaultTrust
#2 DabLjat
#3 TheFuzzStone
#4 biom33
#5 taikuri13

#6 MaoChao
 #7 peloso

#8 Rooivalk
#9 xandry
#10 xenon131
Sorry, I did it manually.
Their trust lists don't look identical except for few of them.

Edit:
Copy pasting from the hierarchical view, trusted and untrusted members will look the same.

That's not but, but it would much easier to understand if you used the hierarchical view at the bottom of your trust settings page. There you can get exact trustlists. Add ;dt for the dt version. Thanks

this is wrong and old
my list is updated

Retaliatory negs from Pelso and fuzz are backing up the fact that neither deserve to be anywhere near DT,

What is this?

https://i.imgur.com/Bu1yHlY.png

:D These immature individuals should stay far away from DT IMO. Emotional responses are not welcome.

---

Can someone quickly parse who from that local section is in DT2?

Yeah absolutely right.When someone do something wrong in different language section its hard to catch. Although i think our DT members are enough careful to trace this kind of activities.

Sometimes to keep in perfect shape the procedure of free elections, more important than the result. Everyone knows that freedom and responsibility are two sides of the coin. Therefore, if as a result of free elections, people get an ineffective leader, they reserve the right to impeachment \ blacklist and internal investigation. There is a structure in politics that provides freedom and protects against the fatal mistakes of bad leaders. That is how it should be.

There are many experienced people in the English-speaking section who are able to observe the activities of people from the DT list and inform the community about their mistakes in time. For example, if the reference reference does not contain investigation and evidence, but only a personal offense, this is incompetence. Having several active accounts can be a bad sign, what are the goals of this person and how to prove it?
 
In local sections, more difficult. Some local sections live in a vacuum, they are like “Gotham sity” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotham_City), I wrote about this in the summer. Whole groups of scammers can influence the formation of these local partitions. Russian section, you need to know it well, without knowledge of the language it is difficult. But for now, you can help the Russian guys choose honest people. How to do this, I do not know, it is easy to confuse honest and dishonest. May need a centralized destination, Or something average. You can experiment with elections, but remember, there is no internal security service there and the error will not be detected soon, clans may appear. Good job, not an easy, real maturity test.

It is rightly observed that the candidate must be fully prepared for this position. A candidate in the list of DT will need a Kevlar suit and mask, help in gaining knowledge and experience. If experienced DT members agree to help in correspondence, this will be a responsible attitude to the development of the forum community.

I guess there was some misunderstanding. People here just share there opinions and knowledge. Anyway, if there is such a problem, hope soon people will become more friendly and attentive to others

Thanks man, although as I stated before up until the exclusion there was nothing wrong with the thread - you missed out a few of the pertinent posts though.


I interperate the above as discussing how to use a "vote" to get members onto DT-1



Above needs no explanation

I have no time to go through the whole thread again, but I see the above as blatant manipulation - keen to hear others views.

Theymos' trust data dump happens on Saturday, so it'll have to wait a bit.

hey if they don't need help, let them be. They probably figure if they could get to the POTUS then can get to a forums DT list

Nice work, but.... If you didn't see the conspiracy there, then you either conspired with us or misunderstood the translation. /s

If you're a native speaker, please, can you translate these links and posts or at least public them in Croatian board and explain why is important to create an own DT0?

---

• DefaultTrust changes  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095156.0)

---

• A short introduction to the Trust System (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096445.0)

---

• [Explained] Importance of Custom Trust List (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096348.0)

---

• Customized Trust Network – Interactive tool to see who we trust/distrust (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096207.0)

---

• [Infographic] Leaving Feedback vs Custom Trust List (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095944.0)

---

---

This is strange but today I felt(just for a little) How was that to be a famous)
I came to this forum a year ago and I think until yesterday 99,99999....9% people from this forum know that I even exist, but everything changed when  TMAN mentioned me on this thread with (~) . I wrote more than 450 posts but I was observed only for 4 messages in one thread. These messages were from 75-90 messages that marlboroza described as "#75 - 90 discussing trust system, merit abuse, farming accounts, trading accounts etc". That close to the point. I didn't called to put (~) to everyone, I don't have any personal problems with anyone from this thread. I just thought about 4 things on these 4 messages when I wrote them 2 days ago :

1) What is that new trust system about? What is that mean for everyone? what changes it carries. I did my trust list without any ~ sign cause I didn't have motive to do that. I didn't make any deals, any personal issue or something. I didn't have any motive to use ~ for anyone and I didn't. I didn't know about Lauda of TMAN before this thread or why I got on their list with ~.
In general I'm searching on Russian local cause this is easy for me, this is my native language. Technical thread on English terra incognita for me. Most of us do the same, not many people know Ehglish well. Most of people here forget that we read about new rules not from theymos, but from translator and for most of us this is not easy to understand about, cause not everyone knows English perfectly and and of course everyone in the translation have their own interpretations. If we didn't make this thread in Russian local most of the people from our local even didn't know that something changed.

2) Curious that there was so many negative feedback for TheFuzzstone , cause most of people before this new trust system didn't know that he even exist.  What he did wrong for these people? Curios also about taikuri13 cause he was deleted after TheFuzzstone as his enemy of people(вpaг нapoдa) . This is very popular term here in times of political repression in the 30s of the 20th century.

3) I mentioned that usually people (from the world) think that we (Russian-Soviet) think and act equally and that we don't have  our own opinion. Usually people think this is cause we have 70 years of communism, but I mentioned that people from English local act much more cohesive, almost unconditionally follow behind the leader and that we still have to learn this. We are just noobs on this, cause we are just students, though not the worst, but rather follow the English threads than organize  trends themselves, most of the good topics, it's just translations from English thread. Although we learned well and we(Russian local) made some good things too.

4) I mentioned that "Lauda's people" well learned how effective are the Sulla's proscriptions was. If someone interesting you can read about that more when you'll have time.
For a very small part of myself I felt  what was carried by the proscriptions of Sulla. When you can see your name on this proscription list just cause you were mentioned as a person that have "bad political stance" or too good a Villa on Capri.
Unfortunately, despite globalization and freedom of opinion,  sometimes we are still dominated by mentality, language barrier, mental patterns. Anyway there are some good sides of this situation and one of this that now more people try to understand about this new trust-system and start think about that more. More people will begin to understand more deeply in the forum, as most of they did when merit system came first time. So if someone read this message Don't listen to anyone. This should be your opinion and remember that you only you are responsible for the consequences of your decision.

and I think I should read book about Sulla again, one more time. With each new reading, it seems to me that Caesar's opponents, when they call him "the murderer of the Republic", simply do not study enough the history and prerequisites for the emergence of certain events.
English is not my native language so hope you'll excuse me for my grammar mistakes.

This is not the place to ask something that has been answered in the announcement thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095156.0).

TheFuzzstone has no idea what he is doing, none of the positive feedback that he received is legitimate, he retaliaties due to his emotional responses; he should stay far away from DT.

There is no "Lauda's people", there is only The Cult of Lauda.

Is the rest supposed to be a lesson about Sulla? If so, off-topic.

Need to stop with the cult/people/gang jokes now bud, people wont understand in other languages and its rather sensitive at the moment, and I really would prefer to sort this all peacefully without an east V west war.


I feel there was abuse but as I had previously posted I don't believe everyone was involved and I do believe the local sections need representation on DT-2. My exclusions are not final, they were made due to what I saw as manipulation and gaming of the system and it seems others agree with me although I cannot remove any of my exclusions right now as I do not have the time to re go though the thread and make justifications to myself of who was actually involved, who I feel is guilty by association and who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I will do this when I have the free time to dedicate and I will be speaking to other members of DT to justify my reasoning.

now just to confirm the exclusions were made as a preemptive measure by me and some innocent people quite possibly have got grouped in with others, but checking my un-trusted tags there is enough proof that members of that community are not fit to be on DT especially TheFuzzstone who had malicious intent to game the system and has resorted to retaliatory negs over this - the guys who are sitting back and letting this play out are the ones who are in with a much better chance of having the exclusions removed.

Please people stop being emotional and give it a week tops

1)I didn't ask about that here. I wrote that I asked about trust system on Russian thread 2 days ago, not here.

2)This is not my business to judge that TheFuzzstone received feedback legitimate or not, I just mentioned on Russian thread that that was strange that so many people sent ~ for him, because they didn't even know that he exist, just when he was mentioned on thread these people sent him ~. They really so well know him for a few moments and then gave him ~? Did they do that for their will?  Without pressure?

3)It's more of a philosophical and language moment. I don't know what is more proper "people or cult".

4)This is not lesson about Sulla. This is this is rather a hint that this thread is more like the massacre of a political opponent than the establishment of the essence of the point of Russian thread about trust system and the list in the beginning of the thread similar to the proscription, like the order for the elimination of competitors.

You clearly have a hard time expressing yourself in this language.

He should NOT be in DT and that is why people who see him exclude him. It'a as simple as that. Nobody can pressure you to exclude anyone, if they explicitly did then they would be painted red and removed.

Cult.

If any of you consider yourself analogous to "political opponents", then it is very clear to me that none of you deserve to be anywhere close to DT.

Which is alright. Those preemptive exclusions harm nobody unless they have mallicious intentions.

I only realized he existed when I found out he'd excluded me from his trust list.  I've never had any interaction with him and don't know who he is--so either he's trying to make a trust list the exact opposite of Lauda's, or he genuinely doesn't trust me based on things I've written.  I suspect it's the former. 

Honestly I don't see a problem with the Russian section trying to gain some political power--or at least it doesn't surprise me--but creating trust lists that include QS and cryptohunter is just idiotic.  That's not the right way to go about getting a member onto DT in my opinion.

I could understand the emotional response and excluding me thereafter, but adding those two out of spite is just very childish. DT material for sure. ::)

Thanks. I will also check accounts manually and I will exclude them all(except xandry, but I have to check something first).

I will update this post shortly with my reason.

Xenon131 has added escrow scammer(quacksy)  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=358020)to trust network and peloso has added scammer |Admiral| (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1000796) who has default on loan and there is solid connection between Admiral and pinkman, chivasregal and some other accounts. I don't know who is owner of the account at the moment as account has probably changed hand. It can't be trusted.

They don't have good trust lists. Trust list with scammer on it is very bad list.

Dabljat included xenon131
taikuri131 included xenon131
MaoChao included peloso and xenon131
xenon131 included peloso and vice versa
TheFuzzStone included xenon131
biom33 included taikuri13
Rooivalk included TheFuzzStone  

Hope this is clear.

theymos is in DT1. His exclusions matter. peloso's exclusions don't unless he gets into DT1.

You seem to have a serious problem either with the English language or with honesty. I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's the former but perhaps you should refrain from posting total bullshit if you don't really understand what it means:


There is no secret.

Agreed.  Trust isn't moderated in the main sections in English and there shouldn't be some sort of double standard for any other section.  Whatever is happening in the Russian section as far as the trust system goes doesn't need to have moderator involvement--that's outside the scope of a mod's job as far as I can see.

It kind of makes me wonder whether newbies are aware of QS's "self-escrow" history.  I put that in quotes, because there's no such thing in the real world and if you searched for it you'd probably only get results from this forum.  There are also still some folks who don't think escrowing your own deals using an alt account is totally fine, and that just flabbergasts me.  Anyone who's got QS on his trust list ought to think about that a little. 

As far as including cryptohunter on a trust list, I would expect that from his alt accounts and people who don't fully comprehend the extent of BS he's writing.  It's not just a smear campaign; it's psychosis masquerading as helpfulness.  Sort of like what digaran was doing, though I have my doubts as to whether they're one and the same.

Thanks man - But of course TMAN is the bad guy here for bringing this all up!

seems like you can't stop the russians teaming up to increase their success

Very very bad man.

They probably didn't read this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust

Going to check other accounts listed in topic.

Update:

https://i.imgur.com/8DwUE8E.png

https://i.imgur.com/WPRnOax.png

https://i.imgur.com/rfsmMJO.png

It shouldn't be...
Unless I misunderstood the use of the list you should put only people you trust for a good objective reason.

If you removed him it should mean something happened that make you no longer trust him. Not just because you were caught red-handed.

bets on how many more exclusions come down just for that alone.

Good Trust list -> Bitcoin Centrists, it doesnt matter weather someone has a good trust list, he is just opposing you you should better do a grade of "bitcoin maximalism" that would be honest

No need - just proving that your exclusion was a sound idea.

I am very interested to hear your opinion about me. An honest man has nothing to fear.

well its not exactly secret that most physical bitcoin collectors talk off forum, in fact I met a large number of them in April 2017 and 2018 at a coin expo - you know you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to check my trust feedback either.. now  enough deflections. you can go on ignore now as well

@madnessteat you seem like a reasonable guy, but I don't know you at all so cannot remove your exclusion yet, please be patient

It's very clear that some of these folk are intentionally creating counter-lists, which alone makes them untrustworthy  (even if you ignore all the thread stuff).

hey! are you sick? i sure yes
i dont know/remember |Admiral| i dont know why i have positive feedback from him
aдso you can see nobogy get positive feedback from me

so i added you to my include list and by your stupid logic you are scammer ? because you connected to Admiral through me :D you are fucking genius ;D ;D

You included a known scammer into your trust list, which makes other users question your judgement. That has nothing to do with sending feedback but if you included that person because you received positive feedback from them - that's even worse.

he is scammer by your Lauda and TMAN versions so i dont trust your vesion cos Lauda is proven scammer TMAN is proven asshole and you support they
i didnt make investigation about Admiral and dont know he as scammer

Why do you have Admiral in your trust list then?

i not remember and still not started investigation

@peloso do you have evidence of my scams, or is that just a lie?

@TheFuzzStone who are you? I have no idea who you even are.

---

DT1 is susceptible to 51% attacks without third-party intervention so if there is a cj group, that's pretty bad.

as you know i never lie

you wanna evidence of your scams?

FIRST!
Lauda is proven scammer, you are Lauda's pet
so if you pet of scammer you also scammer :)
you not agree?
do you wanna SECOND?

Interesting syllogism.

P1) Lauda is a proven scammer
P2) I am Lauda's pet
P3) A pet of a proven scammer is also a scammer.
C) I am a scammer.

None of your premises can be considered sound without definitive evidence however I will make it easy for you.

Suppose that P1 is true. Prove that P2 and P3 are true, thus creating sound conclusion that follows from sound premises.

That's probably a lie.  Even if it's the truth, it still is an admission that you're an idiot because this:

is utter nonsense.  80% of the people I see at my job daily have criminal records, and I support them in their efforts to get off drugs and get on with their lives.  Does that make me a criminal?  You're claiming someone is guilty by association, and you're stretching that out so far that by your pseudo-logical reasoning you could probably claim anyone here is a scammer if you wanted to, just to fit your own agenda.  Note: my statement here isn't implying that I think Lauda is a criminal.  Just pointing out the idiocy of this reasoning.

who are you to ask proof ? you just fucking slave
and you think i must spend my expensive time for you?
proving who are you?
you must be enough accusation and shut up not write here

You don't know why you have Admiral in trust list?
You must remember the reason why you excluded these members and why you suggested people to exclude them:
?

If you do not prove that the premises are sound, then we are unable to draw a valid conclusion from the premises. The onus is on you to reject the null hypothesis.

If your premises and conclusions cannot be refuted then your system of verification is flawed. Assuming that we all follow the same system, we can make arbitrary premises without evidence and derive conclusions thereof at will.

see above


i remember most of them but not all
its important?


sorry Pharmacist i forget about you and even not exluded (apparently you are not very important)
you also Lauda's pet  8)
she has too much fucking pets as you as actmyname i cant remember all of you
my apologies ::)

It was rhetorical question.

So tell us your reasons. Why have you excluded all these accounts and suggested everyone to exclude them?

Now, why this sounds so familiar... ::)
Yes, it is important.

It was rhetorical answer


i will if you tell me why it iportant for you

also i can answer all of your questions  thus I have a litle bit of respect to you..still 8)

but it temporarily

Similar to accepting premises as valid without evidence, if you have no foundation for the inclusion or exclusion of members then you are doing so without any reason.

If there is no foundation to one's actions -- if they act without a rationale, then clearly their actions matter less than someone who does have a solid backing for their decisions.

This is similar to the acceptance of pragmatism: if one doesn't believe in it, then their beliefs don't matter.

hey slave i answered you
you have no authority to ask me cos you slave and Lauda's pet

i will answer to marlboroza if he will want

I can't sleep because of it. Tell me so I can go to bed. Fair enough?

Your premises of the slave or Lauda's pet label are still invalid and have not yet rejected the null hypothesis.

If you would like, I can accept your method of syllogism which forces validity of the conclusion regardless of the soundness of its premises.

lets go to bed :D go to sleep
 ill tell you tomorow IF you tell me why it interestig for you


its your opinion and its false

I have nightmares, dreaming ~ ~ ~ ~. Sometimes in colors.
Tell me and I won't have nightmares.

That would imply that your premises are true by definition. That is, we have an axiom which implies "actmyname is a slave" or that "actmyname is Lauda's pet".

I don't think this is the case but we can change the evidence you must provide to this. Provide evidence that this axiom exists in our language.

You got the answer. It was mistakenly posted in the wrong thread:

to whom I owe, I forgive all debts

That's no good. It'll trickle down your leg!

---

If your system of validity is not based on the evidence provided and hence if any premise can be declared true, then it is of no pragmatic use to anyone.

If we're using your system, I could claim "all of the Russian Local board are scammers" as a true statement without any evidence.

I suppose that the root of the problem is the vast majority of Bitcointalk users are hanging out in local boards only and they know little (or don't know at all) what the trust system is intended for.

In my opinion, members need to get out of their local sections more often, communicate with experienced users and follow the discussions on the forum.

Yes, I have just read it. Peloso probably doesn't know it is the same forum. Oh, well, I can go to bed now.
Go there and explain them that trust system is not "like" system.

hey!  :o go to sleep and relax 8) i not wish you dreams ~


i sleeped and have a dream you are scammer ( i not remember details) anyway you are scammer
may be you have some proof im wrong? can you proven you not scammer? i sure no
so relax your ass and not buthurt please ;)

Acceptable.
We will now use your system of beliefs.

I may be a scammer, but I dreamt that the word "scammer" actually means deity. Bow down, cretin!

Those who try to understand already know it:
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096402.msg49293624#msg49293624
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095156.msg49274368#msg49274368

Therefore I believe the conflict will be settled through a constructive dialogue after a while.

Nothing will be settled until they actually stop abusing the system and/or acting childish in response to criticism IMO.

In my opinion experienced users should lead by example and to show a willingness to compromise.
Many members (not only in mentioned section) aren't taking "Trust settings" with due seriousness and they need gently explain that such behavior can harm the forum community.

Theymos foresaw this situation and wrote that it is better to settle the conflict instead to engage in constant disputes.

This war is like schizophrenia. Nothing can be proven, it's unprovable. Any of us can send merit for the post we like. Any one of us can trust whoever he wants. We are all different people and have the right to think individually. This war, we only destroy the helpful forum users. In fact, the DT system does not protect users, but only arranges war.

Did we come to the bitcointalk for this?

---

Update

They just enjoy their impunity and think they can do anything. Let's see what happens when for the majority of Russian users of the forum, their profiles will look like:


In the "Russian black list" will be made all the accounts seen in the genocide of Russian on the forum!

Who exactly are the experienced users that should lead by example in the Russian section? The two moderators that can't even speak up but would rather side up with their own "people" even when they are in the wrong? TheFuzzStone who is preaching anti-DT propaganda (as a former DT1 member) and is playing games with his own list out of spite?

I see two ways out of this: 1) They need to back down from their stupidity/collusion/manipulation and whatever it is that they are trying to do now. 2) All of them get excluded from all levels of DT by a supermajority of DT1 members, essentially leaving maybe 1 legitimate Russian DT2 member.

---

There are 3 now I believe, with 1 on his way out (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5094865.0).

And I see 1 way out of this situation:

1. We will choose from those who are or create a new user (for example RuTrast).
2. Create a pinned topic in the Russian Newbie section on the importance of changing DefaultTrust to RuTrast
3. Add to the RuTrast Trust list DefaultTrust
4. Add a ~tilde to all who observed in the unreasonable oppression of Russian in the forum.
~TMAN
~Lauda
~owlcatz
~yahoo62278
~actmyname
Maybe someone I missed, but it's never too late to add.
5. Add to the list of all respected and trusted users ru locale.
6. Add to the list is adequate and is not seen in the manipulation of the list of representatives of the DT2.

Once you've destroyed the trust system, we'll create our own.

That would be abuse of staff power.  ::)

Right. You can add anyone you want to your own trust list, and no one is going to stop you from doing that. If you want to add only your friends to your trust list, you are welcome to do so. If you and your friends want to have personal trust lists made up of only the most prolific scammers on the forum, you are welcome to do that too. What you can't expect is for everyone else to sit by and let you and your friends add these scammers to the Default Trust list, and therefore directly cause harm to newbies who do not know any better.

You can have any trust list you want, but if you are going to have a completely irresponsible one, expect to be excluded from DT. It's as simple as that.

Let's see ;)

To fight the Nazis is the fate of the Russian people!

I'm guessing we'll see Russians targeted by known scammers whose negative trust is hidden from everyone whose trust lists are built on petty vengeance instead of an actual need to tag scammers, so don't say you weren't warned.

If you think that Russian fools, it is not so. It is likely we will by default add all users lists DT1 and DT2 trust RuTrust. And eliminate the tilde for the most ardent Nazis!

No one said that. Newbies, of any language or country, are commonly targeted by scammers, because they are generally easier to fool than people who have been involved in crypto for years already. If you convince all the Russian newbies to set up custom trust lists that exclude all the best scam busters, then Russian newbies will become the favored target for scammers. It has nothing to do with intelligence.


The users who are the "most ardent Nazis" in your opinion, also happen to be some of the most prolific scam busters on the forum. Exclude them if you wish, and convince the entire Russian section to exclude them if you wish, but be prepared for an influx of scammers.

Unfortunately I do not have any friends on the forum. And many already consider an enemy, although I didn't do anything wrong. I just added to my DT0 list of people from Russian locale who create useful topics. I didn't even look at their trust.

---

Update:

I'm not trying to get on the DT1 list. I don't!!! I see infringement of my rights at a forum. A crook can be any nation, though Russian, though English, though French. No one can protect us. Everyone protects himself.

I didn't start this war. My list of trust in the election did not include any tiilda of those people who unreasonably painted me. That's personal now. Let them roll back their war - and I'll roll back mine.

We are ready to communicate and cooperate as equals! But Russians never demolished when someone behaves arrogantly in relation to them and considers them as people of the third grade.

There is no war, you are not equal if you don’t understand the system. This isn’t about race or creed this is about protecting members of the forum.

You do not protect people by “electing” your mates, DT is about safety for users, not a flipping “like” when the majority of you understand that we can have a civilised conversation, until that happens I won’t be removing my exclusions or negs. Continue to fight and act like emotional pre schoolers and nothing will change.

Prevention is better than cure.

That is a very poor way to set up your own trust list. Being useful is not the same as being trustworthy. Creating useful topics would be a reason to send someone merit, not a reason to send them positive feedback, and certainly not a reason to add them to your trust list. If you wish to do so anyway that's absolutely fine, but it is completely reasonable for other members to disagree with this practice and therefore exclude you from their trust lists.


No, but you were added to DT2 courtesy of TheFuzzStone, and immediately left a bunch of positive feedback with no references to your friends for reasons that do not deserve positive feedback such as being a merit source or "honored user". Again, if you want to do that that's fine, but it is also completely reasonable for other members to not want to see these sham ratings and therefore exclude you.


If you don't wish to be excluded, then leave feedback for good reasons and set up trust lists for good reasons. It's a simple as that.

With this and we had to start, not to engage in the total genocide! Every day the situation worsens, disagreements grow. So far, we have heard only ultimatums, not negotiations.

Because the rest of the forum is right - Theymos was pissed off at me for attacking a staff member who I believed was wrong - he called me an arsehole - he didn't kick me off DT-1 (he could very easily)  WE all here in meta want the best for the forum,  NO personal agenda, no "Liking" or "voting" realise that and we can have a conversation - its pretty simple.

While he didn't kick you off DT1. "Time will tell how the playing cards fall..."

What is it with these thinly veiled threats, you still don't see what the fricking issue is if its not me kicking off it will be others on DT - Blatant manipulation and attempts to fork the trust system will end badly for users - not you, but the newbies - would you prefer for scams to be more prevalent just to get someone onto DT? you barely know how the system works for gods sake - its like a 3 year old walking into a shop and saying "I want that one"

Please for the sake of the people that you will cause to get scammed stop being a dick and listen

Oh come on, that's just taking things a bit too far.  I really don't think most of the current DT1 members have anything against Russians per se.  I sure as hell don't, and I'm from the US and grew up in the 1980s when the Soviet Union was still considered "the evil empire".  

I've been reading this thread but haven't been following people's trust lists, and that's basically what it comes down to.  If you're including known scammers on it out of spite, that's a problem because every single member on this forum uses the same trust system.  I just excluded peloso because of his trust list and his cryptohunter-like attitude in another thread, but excluding Russians from my trust list isn't something that's going to be a pattern as far as I can see.

But I don't have an agenda against Russians, and I can't stand seeing this cold war starting to form, with the Russian community walling themselves off from everyone else.  There's got to be a better way to solve this problem.  Everyone probably needs to take a breath and step back for a few minutes and maybe reevaluate why they included, excluded, or negged someone else.  If it was out of spite or was for emotional reasons (anger being the first one that comes to mind), then it should probably be changed.  

That wasn't a threat.  It was a fact. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7Q6ga6RVRw)  Time will indeed tell who stays and who goes from DT, though it's probably not a bad assumption to think DabLjat is hoping Theymos (or this newly-formed democracy) boots you off. 

I can't even remember how this conflict got started, as none of this seemed to be a problem more than 3 days ago.  Was it this thread in particular?

I look forward to when marlboroza check my account. I've read a lot that he's good at analyzing accounts. I want to see how right he is.

I respect this forum and the people who improve it.

So why are you suggesting people to remove certain users?

Why this forum member has excluded certain forum members:
Goran_ never leaves Russian local but excludes:
 
https://i.imgur.com/mmf7Poh.png

Or Rooivalk

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5098584.msg49290224#msg49290224

Also never left Russian local. What is the reason for all exclusions?

Some info about me can be found here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096740.msg49232976#msg49232976

---

Hmm...  ??? What about these? I'm sure you'll find arguments for this behavior.

https://i.imgur.com/DV29o7w.png

The next one is good, so reasonable! s/

https://i.imgur.com/VO4kXKX.png

Need more reasonable feedbacks with Reference?

https://i.imgur.com/jS6AD5r.png

The owner of these "reasonable feedbacks with reference" is Lauda. Who want to see a full list, just check Lauda's trust.

---

---

This post will be probably the last post in this forum war, because I don't like wars. And the second thing -- I don't care what you think about me and especially what you think of my presence in DT1. You don't decide this. Just accept that fact.

My opinion about DT0 will never change, whether I will be in DT1 or not.

If theymos decides to exclude me -- I'm not gonna change my mind and I will continue to spread the info about DefaultTrust changes and the importance of personal DT0.

Even if theymos adds me to his trust list (which would cause of incredible butthurt for some users) -- I'm not gonna change my mind and I will continue to spread the info about DefaultTrust changes and the importance of personal DT0.

I don't have to report back to you (in context of some users like Lauda), so take it in your hands https://translate.google.com/  and have a nice day!  :)

All my ratings are valid (including those three). Stop pulling things out of context, especially when you don't even understand the system itself.

We (aka all DT1 members) decide it, and we have decided to exclude you. Wake up from your delusions already.

Wrong. You continue to spread dangerous propaganda that will lead to more newbies getting scammed. Why does this not surprise me given that people from that board are known to abuse just about anything? ::)

I'll explain. at first I made a list of the only people I know on the forum and trust them. I had no motive to bring you in. But your behavior angered me, I did not see any benevolent attitude to the participants from the Russian locale, on the contrary you behave very haughtily, aggressively and always attack by team, where the opinion is only the leader, while the other members of the gang only support him. Thus, I have no reason to exclude you from the list.

 i tried to investigate about Admiral today and couldnt find someting about scam also i see him in green ( positive feedback) and there is no red feedback so if he scammer he must red but he green
so you ll say trust system not work?

It actually wouldn't. You already have 6 DT1 exclusions, so one DT1 inclusion would make no difference. You still wouldn't be on DT1 even if theymos included you. As noted by other users already, it might be wise to spend more time understanding the new changes before you try to advise other Russian members on the best course of action.

Also concerning is your repeated assertion that you will "never change your mind". Being unable to consider any point of view other than your own and being unopen to discussion and compromise is not a good attitude to have.

What is the reason to exclude Blazed, yahoo62278 and Lutpin? You must have some reason.

So why do you have scammer Admiral in trust list? Account who took loan and didn't return.

Excluding Lutpin I can understand, since he left a lot of sig campaigners hanging with the 777Coin and Bitvest campaigns.  It's unfortunate that that happened, but maybe he got burned by Lutpin in one of those.

Blazed and yahoo62278 I don't agree with, but I'd like to hear the reasoning behind their exclusions if Rooivalk wouldn't mind explaining. 

see above i answered

tell me why you added me to exclude list?

Watching from the outside, it seems to me that you have become slaves of this system. And it seems that the only thing you have achieved in life, so it got to DT. And you try to stay there as if it replaces your house or apartment. Be kind to each other.

Reputable forum members were meant, which have years of experience on the forum, not only in Russian locale.
They could remind other users that is need to make trust lists with responsibility.


I think this warning might be added on the Trust settings page (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust).

why oh why do you want to be on DT? will you run about the forum adding tags to scams? will you engage and try to find the truth when there isnt a clear answer? will you ask people in lending questions to avoid newbies getting skamed?

if not - then why oh why do you want to break a system? you are spouting about graph theory yet don't have enough merit in there to push 100 users forward, please dont spout nonsense, this is making me want to just tag more members there to save the forum as a whole from your shenanigans

I'm pretty sure that this has been stated several times in different forms in this thread alone. The people that were accused of colluding apparently don't understand it or do not want to understand it. The longer this goes on, the more it seems like a lost cause.

---

Don't snip out my description of the users that we are dealing with.

Don't you guess whose unfair decisions caused the birth of this Russian revolution? Some DT members have abused their power and compromised the trust system. For example, one year ago after the appearance of the merit system Peloso and I tested it. It was an economically useless and not prohibited operation which doesn't harm the forum. We didn't get any benefits only burned some sMerits. I remained Sr. Member, he remained Legendary. Then Actmyname set us a negative trust and without undeniable evidence accused that we are alts. I always helped the staff, found hundreds of bots and sent 4000+ reports. Am I alt and violator? Seriously? Ok, I don't mind, if it helps Actmyname to demonstrate his importance. But let's call a spade a spade. If this is a fight against scammers, then I'm Satoshi Nakamoto 8)

actmyname is stupid slave so all slaves trying to demonstrate his importance and he seems so funny :D
when d1 controlling such stupid slaves and scammers as Lauda thid must be destroy (IMHO)

this feels like soviet union vs allies all over again, i wonder , would there be the same drama if a Russian member started this topic ? almost every Russian member is taking the Russian side blindly, while i do not agree with how TMAN described the situation here, i totally find funny that some people would include known scammers and people who are far from trusted just to appose current DT members trust lists. the current and the previous DT members are far from perfect, in fact i would rate them at 5 over 10 but i am pretty certain that with all the flaws ,the forum is much safer with them than without them.

having said that, i still stand by my opinion that at least every local board needs a local DT member/s to help protect that board, but those people have to get to DT in proper and fair manners.

There should be the opportunity for some civil dialogue in order to repair the already-strained relations.

I see no reason why the Russian forum must create their own DefaultTrust list to follow without having the security of the (literally thousands of) negative feedback targeting scammers.^*
Is there any chance that we can resolve this?
There is a language barrier, so if there are sensible members that are bilingual or understand a reasonable amount of English then we can tackle the differences in our thinking.
TheFuzzStone maybe? You're already a soft-DT1. If we can highlight the differences in our logic and come to a compromise, the exclusions should be lifted.

---

The ironic part, though, is that this kind of "self-created" list is in the uncanny valley of what we want. The point of the new system is to encourage making your own lists.
Unfortunately, the Russian community has missed the mark slightly if they decide to create another centralized list.

I have already answered this. Me and a lot of people around me got excluded solely out of spite whilst the user claims not wanting to involve emotions into this. ::)

It's not really, no. You're encouraged to create your own list whilst not excluding everything that took many years to establish. If you do that, then you're essentially nullifying the security provided by all those ratings.

Bad wording on my end. Like I said though, uncanny valley of what it's meant to be.

---

It was just a little strange because I had no interaction with the user at all. No exclusions, no posts about them. Must have been either roped in to a collective, or perhaps tagged members alluded to my exclusion.

So what's stopping you from starting this dialogue? I have repeatedly offered you this dialogue in English. You kept silent in response. What language barrier? Are you kidding?

Let's begin, then. List your issues with the DefaultTrust system and we will create a correspondence.

---

I see them majority of people in [ Чeллeндж ] Hacтpoй и пoкaжи cвoй Trust-лиcт (and the Russian forum as a whole) don't speak English fluently. Plus, take a look at peloso's English posts.

You set a negative trust without undeniable evidence and cannot explain your position. For a year there has been no dialogue. DT is needed to protect forum against scammers, alts and bots, not for express your personal opinion about someone. You have abused your power and compromised DT. As a result, the Russian revolution began. It makes me laugh. ;D

Yep, they speak English very badly but you don't respond to those who speak better.

Good luck with this, you will need it. He's talking about peloso (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=81995) I believe.

Good luck indeed.
Difficult to talk constructively in a paranoid environment, and there seems to be plenty of that about.

First of all, thank you for the insightful response. It's important to create discussion as some users may know things that others do not.

My main point is that DT in its current state tags a huge number of scammers that manifest in the English boards (some in the Local boards as well). The issue with excluding DT1 members is that not only do their feedback stop propagating but also the DT2 members under them.

You may say that this is not an issue because they have some ratings you disagree with but there is a better solution: one that can solve your problem without enabling scammers.

If there is feedback you disagree with, you can counter it with your own positive trust (for those that are in your local DefaultTrust system) and potentially undo the negative by vocalizing it in Reputation or elsewhere. There will be times that the DefaultTrust members are unwilling to negotiate but since you've countered the trust, to all people who align with your DT0, they will see a positive rating.

---

Think of it this way: (arbitrary numbers)

Suppose Lauda has 1000 good ratings and 10 bad ratings.
If you exclude Lauda, you lose all of those 1000 good ratings.
If you counter the 10 bad ratings, you keep the good ratings and nullify the bad ratings.

yes and it fair

cos all Lauda's and she's pets tagged "scammers" is not scammers at all

Okay, I see. Now, the issue with excluding DefaultTrust entirely is totally up to you. However, you run the risk of seeing scammers with neutral trust. If you have no problem with that and are genuinely careful with your trading, then go for it.

However, I would seriously advise against promoting the exclusion of DefaultTrust to people who aren't careful with their trades.
Users that don't look at the trust page of those that they're trading with are susceptible to scams.

There have to be some users on DefaultTrust that you think leave well-intentioned ratings, right?

DT1 lost vlue since  you uebok tagged me year ago  and blamed the farm without any evidence and proofs your reference even wrong so if DT1 not work it must be remove

I'm not gonna waste my time reading the last 4 pages of this thread so forgive me if this has already been brought up.

I think a lot of otherwise respectable members here are making a mistake listening to loud assholes like DabLjat and peloso. They're the cryptohunters of the Russian board with no interest in anything other than escalation.

A simple way forward is to support the "good guys" and there are plenty of those in the Russian community. Support may be as simple as not excluding/red-trusting the good guys or countering existing exclusions/red trust. If you're not sure - and unless you speak passable Russian or have MANY HOURS to spend with multiple translation tools and talk to English-speaking Russians then you can't be sure - please simply take yourself out of the debate and don't act with exclusions or red trust. I have contacted numerous users over the last couple of days trying to explain this simple concept but it is unsurprisingly very difficult to do so when the debate is being fueled by emotions or perhaps even malice.

I stand by my opinion that an unqualified DT1 member should be excluded and I don't see a viable DT1 candidate on the Russian board yet, but there are some good DT2 candidates if you cut trough the noise. Unfortunately some of them got caught up in this debacle simply by posting in the Russian DT discussion thread and/or appearing in a trust list of a shady person. I consider that unacceptable and I have started reincluding some of them at my own risk. Unfortunately my sole action means jack shit. Any DT1 members willing to contribute to the solution and not to the problem feel free to PM me or post here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5099774) at any time and I'll try to answer any questions you may have on this subject.

suchmoon! as i heard asshole TMAN only but i was wrong now i see you are a big asshole :)
i understand your buthurt you think you will lost your fucking power but you already lost your power
your feedback nothing for my partners and peoples that i trade
and they trust me
you also so stuped you opened sfm topic  :D that so good   you can shit there as much as you want and play a game with your shit and take Lauda, actmynames and other assholes we will not miss you ;D

and Russian locales not need DT1 we will made our own dt i recomend it other locales

SAY NO LAUDA

Its really an issue of concern that on other language section of bitcointalk some guys are abusing massively. Basically its not so easy to detect so fast but need instant solution too.

Maybe many of us have got the knowledge of understanding multiple languages but its not an easy task to learn most of the languages. Some guys are taking this gap as a opportunity to spread their illegal activities. Basically when we want to investigate one topic from italian section at that we need to translate it to our native language first.  After then we are capable of understanding whats going on there.

we have to keep in mind that everyday the community of bitcointalk increasing rapidly. Its going much difficult for our DT members to controling the forum day by day. I think we need to find a productive way to stop this kind of massive abuses on other language section.  

Because of the actions of the gang in the composition of TMAN and Lauda from the list of DT2 was deleted local moderator Xal0lex (-1). He was attached to this list by theymos.

What kind of negotiations can we talk about in such a situation?

If these pieces of shit don't trust even to moderators - about what to talk to them and to agree?

None. Theymos made a mistake by including someone just because they are a staff member. If someone includes him back in, he'll just get more exclusions.

Being a staff member =/= trustworthy.

---

I'm also unsure whether Xandry should be in that list as well.

https://i.imgur.com/zFrPiIO.png

Stuff like this also bothers me. Clearly they were tagged because they were Russian moderators IMO (as both him and Xandry received this positive trust); otherwise someone else would be chosen as there are better people in the staff group.

I would like to add something of note: excluding someone doesn't mean that you don't trust them.

I could very well trust someone but think that they trust bad company: for example, if someone trusted some users but unbeknownst to them, those users were shady.

It's called a split personality? I. e. all according to your call should exclude Alex, and you now include Alex?

Xal0lex hasn't left a single feedback. What is the point of being on DT2 if you haven't left a single feedback? Also, just being a moderator doesn't entitle you to a DT position, as you can see by all the staff members who aren't on DT.

It's called making amends.

There are more DTs than just Lauda. The best solution is to talk about it and attempt to come to a resolution.

Feedback doesn't show on the local boards currently - so eliminating the current members on DT and setting your own list would just result in previously tagged scammers and spammers not showing up with any feedback in the English section of the forum. Are you going to go through the thousands of valid feedback to tag all those under your own system ?
You won't have the benefit of valid warnings.

This needs some cool heads and good negotiators.

Also see above and read previous pages.

I have always found Suchmoon to be reasonable and approachable. When I spoke to Suchmoon recently indicated a very different view than before.




I don't know TMAN and Lauda well. I believe they tend to be a bit feisty but they have also tagged hundreds of scams. In this case I believe they have made a mistake - but that is my opinion.

Some of it I covered here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5099822.msg49327580#msg49327580

There is also a thread about it over here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5099774.msg49328469#msg49328469

I'd like to think this can be de-escalated and constructive discussion to take place with the view of a satisfactory resolution. I understand that some people have been insulted by what has occurred but I would like people to concentrate on a resolution rather than a confrontation.

There are 2 threads to sort this without all the nonsense from the immature posters, one in rep and one here, this is not an us v them this is about protecting the forum members who don’t know better.

This is very encouraging stuff:

Translation: This situation is only benefiting scammers and criminals, who are happy when we argue amongst ourselves.

Translation: Let's make a list of issues for Alex to start discussing. Let's roll back everything to 13th January and start over.

Translation: I advise everyone to a sign of show goodwill and remove their ratings.

I would commend you all for approaching this as you have done. I think your ideas are a great first step - lets wipe the slate clean, remove all our ratings on each other, and have the Russian community come up with some ideas/issues they would like addressed to bring forward. Following this, we can hopefully have a constructive conversation - after all, we are all on the same side.

You’re a breath of fresh air here on btctalk buddy. Must admit your influence is growing & I do really enjoy what you add.

Keep up the good work man.


Likewise TMAN, very mature & good negotiating.

I’m encouraged by what I am reading.

Taikuri13 is also removed from my exclusion list. I don’t have time to go through the thread properly right now, but I feel 2 olive branches from me should be enough to kick this off properly

It would work well towards further goodwill to remove some of the neg feedbacks where goodwill has been shown. I've had some very positive private conversations.

Fair point. Removed from taikuri, the tags against the 2 lunatics are staying for now though.

So I have been more than fair here, let’s see some action from these guys, removing untrusted feedback from me isn’t really action

I think they also expect really action from some DT members. I don't know what kind of action. I always help forum but the whole last year has been unfairly accused by DT member. Actmyname recently removed neg feedback from me. You call removing feedback "isn't really action". I'm for fair play. And you? In your opinion, who and how should compensate me this incident?

You still have users in your trust list that seem to be there just to spite Lauda and/or TMAN. For example cryptohunter. I can't fathom why anyone would trust the forum clown's judgement, and I suspect that you're not really familiar with that user.

https://i.snag.gy/0lKYGk.jpg
(pic courtesy of DdmrDdmr (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096207.0))

Your negatives have no consequence other than to annoy, your trust lists are important what is so hard to understand?

Fair enough, that's a reasonable way of doing it if you're not trading and not interested in the red/green colors.

I don't dispute your right to set up a custom list. Everyone who's been on this forum for a while should consider doing that.

realy? so why im red?

I think your reds regarding "conspiracy" should be removed. Exclusion is enough to deal with someone like you.

But I would like you to explain this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1943946.msg23200821#msg23200821
Where is this post? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2170345.msg23080633#msg23080633
And did you threaten someone via PM?

Everyone should tag this individual, whilst my stance moved with regards to the Russian community - this user is not from Russia and from my understanding is the local cryptohunter.

i look it https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1943946.msg23200821#msg23200821
and what?


wow! Everyone should tag me cos i not from Russia?  you realy sick

i'm locking this thread now - but as Peloso is not Russian I am sure this needs it own thread and will not infringe on the new peace treaty we are working on