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Author Topic: Perfect example of why governments must hold Bitcoin  (Read 20930 times)
cellard
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January 28, 2019, 03:59:10 AM
 #1



If Maduro was holding Bitcoin instead of gold, specially gold outside of your borders, he wouldn't have had that little problem. Of course Maduro is probably too computer illiterate to get the thing done.

You could make the argument of "if he was holding his gold inside his country he wouldn't have been denied access". Well still, it would make sense to hold Bitcoin and not gold, specially when you have an empire like US always threatening anyone with entering your country and taking all of your gold and oil reserves as they will do with Venezuela. With Bitcoin they couldn't be able to take them as you could have safe backups overseas.

This is an unbeatable logical argument for the bullish case of institutions holding Bitcoin. Im not saying they should dump all of their gold, but definitely dump a certain % and diversify with Bitcoin. This will happen sooner or later, and it just takes a first mover for the rest to follow, they will not be able to afford not having some due game theory, similar to not having powder back in the way when when wars were fought with swords.
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January 28, 2019, 04:48:42 AM
 #2

yes, of course if the government switches to menyiman bitcoin and makes safe and good storage, then there will be no more colonization terms. that sounds pretty good, also to avoid inflation.
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January 28, 2019, 05:23:15 AM
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 #3

EU and UK are toothless loyal US dogs. They doesn't have own decision making process now. The point here isn't is Maduro good or bad, but the point is they are breaking all democratic principles.

Having Bitcoin will not help Maduro anyway. He will need to convert to fiat at some point. And all cryptos are what 120B? This is nothing compared to world finances and needs.

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January 28, 2019, 07:04:04 AM
 #4

You could make the argument of "if he was holding his gold inside his country he wouldn't have been denied access". Well still, it would make sense to hold Bitcoin and not gold, specially when you have an empire like US always threatening anyone with entering your country and taking all of your gold and oil reserves as they will do with Venezuela. With Bitcoin they couldn't be able to take them as you could have safe backups overseas.

if it gets to the point where invaders are ransacking your gold reserves, it's pretty much game over anyway. what are bitcoin reserves gonna do at that point, except open the elites up to a $5 wrench attack? maybe the elites could spend them from exile, if they're lucky enough to escape. Cheesy

i definitely see the value in holding bitcoin vs owning gold in third party custody though. that's pretty obvious.

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January 28, 2019, 12:41:25 PM
 #5

You could make the argument of "if he was holding his gold inside his country he wouldn't have been denied access". Well still, it would make sense to hold Bitcoin and not gold, specially when you have an empire like US always threatening anyone with entering your country and taking all of your gold and oil reserves as they will do with Venezuela. With Bitcoin they couldn't be able to take them as you could have safe backups overseas.

As far as I understand, the main reason for this blocking a gold withdrawal is a pressure on Nikolas Maduro by the opposition in Venezuela. I heard that some countries have recently recognized Juan Guaido as a temporary legitimate president of Venezuela.

I guess that the Bank of England did not want to block this withdrawal because other rich mans will probably no longer store their gold in this bank for fear of loosing funds.

I agree that governments should hold Bitcoin and other highly liquid crypto currencies in order not to be blocked by other countries, but it is rather difficult to cash out a really large amount of coins without crashing crypto exchange markets.

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January 28, 2019, 12:48:15 PM
 #6

This is an unbeatable logical argument for the bullish case of institutions holding Bitcoin. Im not saying they should dump all of their gold, but definitely dump a certain % and diversify with Bitcoin. This will happen sooner or later, and it just takes a first mover for the rest to follow, they will not be able to afford not having some due game theory, similar to not having powder back in the way when when wars were fought with swords

Actually, your argument doesn't hold water at all

If Maduro went with Bitcoin, the coins would likely have already been stolen. It is probably the reason why Venezuelan gold was on storage in London, i.e. to prevent it from being looted by whoever is in power at the moment. I remember when some African dictator fled his country with the total dollar reserves of it (something like 9M dollars). Now imagine that Maduro is overthrown (and bitcoins not stolen by that time), how are you going to get them back?

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January 28, 2019, 01:00:37 PM
 #7

Yeah,having more stupid dictators holding bitcoin will definitely create a good name for BTC. Grin
I can imagine all the btc haters screaming "We should BAN bitcoin,all the dictators and terrorists are using it!"
Bitcoin isn't a universal safe heaven/store of value.Do you know how easy it is for the FED to destroy bitcoin's value/market price?


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January 28, 2019, 02:08:11 PM
 #8

Actually makes sense,I hope new generation investors will understand this and invest more into bitcoin other than gold or other stocks.The only problem is that volatility for not using it as storage of value,more investors will actually care about the value more than the liquidity.

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January 28, 2019, 03:44:43 PM
 #9

Hold bitcoin and lost over 80% in price
Any gov can't do that
In a case of Maduro i am sure he has enough savings on some offshore accounts otherwise
generals will not support him
Those who really keep power in Venezuela is army
That new president is also praying to generals true is that junta is controlling country
President always has to be his man
It is awful all together because people suffer in country full of oil

 
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January 28, 2019, 04:23:15 PM
 #10


The point of holding BTC though is that no one can hold it for them except them. It doesn't matter whether he is good or bad but if he wants control over their government funds, don't put it in gold like they can protect it and bring anywhere they'd like.


Yeah,having more stupid dictators holding bitcoin will definitely create a good name for BTC. Grin
I can imagine all the btc haters screaming "We should BAN bitcoin,all the dictators and terrorists are using it!"
Bitcoin isn't a universal safe heaven/store of value.Do you know how easy it is for the FED to destroy bitcoin's value/market price?



Do you think they are the ones responsible of what is going on to this long bear market?

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January 28, 2019, 04:24:00 PM
 #11

Isn't The US that store gold for most countries? I'm surprised to see England knowing that the gold from England is also in the United States.
Did I miss something? Anyways, let's suppose he had bitcoins, he would need to convert it to fiat and then it wouldn't mean the funds are safe from x,y,z

Edit: he sold the gold and the bank frozen the funds?


yes, of course if the government switches to menyiman bitcoin...

What's menyiman?

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January 28, 2019, 05:16:43 PM
 #12

If his BTC is worth around 1.4 Billion dollars in December 2017 his BTC would be around 242 Million dollars by now which is more than 80% of its original value. Maduro probably didn't expect that his withdrawal will be put on hold but he also knows the risk of holding his wealth on a very volatile asset. The good thing about him holding gold is that even if the Bank of England denied his withdrawal the money is still his and after a few twist and turns he might withdraw his gold in the future finally.

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January 28, 2019, 05:37:40 PM
 #13

Well, yes you are right, if he kept in cryptocurrency, then the resources would remain with him. But again, he is a man of the old school; he hardly knows much about this.
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January 28, 2019, 05:51:38 PM
 #14

Not a simple situation however. If he kept everything in Bitcoin, then they would not have taken them from him. But the course of Bitcoin makes itself felt. But gold belongs to him anyway.
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January 28, 2019, 06:04:39 PM
 #15

He will need to convert to fiat at some point. And all cryptos are what 120B? This is nothing compared to world finances and needs.

Bitcoin dows give the holder a certain level of control over their wealth, and it is not impossible to convert without getting caught, especially if the holding address is not known.
Also the market cap is not fixed and and can grow, it can also drop further as well. There are downsides to every technology.

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January 28, 2019, 07:48:52 PM
 #16

haha, blocking of so huge amount of money. Some may come and say: If he has been holding bitcoin, then no one knows what would happen with price changes and so on but please also consider at the same time that currently he is in stuck and who knows will he receive his golds? With bitcoin he could receive his money in some minute.
Agree OP but I don't care, I know what I'll do and how, everyone can get knowledge, especially since we have internet.

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January 29, 2019, 07:17:01 AM
 #17

This is an unbeatable logical argument for the bullish case of institutions holding Bitcoin. Im not saying they should dump all of their gold, but definitely dump a certain % and diversify with Bitcoin. This will happen sooner or later, and it just takes a first mover for the rest to follow, they will not be able to afford not having some due game theory, similar to not having powder back in the way when when wars were fought with swords.
I believe this trend might have already started like many big people and institutions might be switching over to bitcoins for their own reasons and definitely not only for diversifying. Compared to gold/diamond (one of the famous store-of-value)/USD/government bonds/wealth certificates,  bitcoins got many big advantageous in terms of easy moving and easy holding and hiding purposes. Only lack of awareness is the reason why everyone is not into bitcoins till now.

If his BTC is worth around 1.4 Billion dollars in December 2017 his BTC would be around 242 Million dollars by now which is more than 80% of its original value.
What if he would have been holding prior to December 2017 ? Value is not a constrain here because one bitcoin is always one bitcoin but what are the advantageous he could enjoy in the case of opting to have bitcoins instead of gold. Please always stick within the subject of a discussion.
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January 29, 2019, 07:49:17 AM
 #18

the government will not be able and does not want to hold the bitcoin because bitcoin does have the principle to be coin or digital currency that cannot be controlled by the government or whatever, the only thing that can control bitcoin is so the government will not do that and chances are the government will make the price of bitcoin fall again by giving bad news.
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January 29, 2019, 08:17:22 AM
 #19

Well whatever reasons could have been laid out,  I think that such a huge amount of money cannot be easily withdrawn because large volumes of money can have an impact on the economic situation in a country. Even the US was always monitoring movements of huge in flow or outflow of money. I recalled that there was somebody caught bringing large bitcoin volume to the US. It was mentioned in a post here but I cannot recall that topic. It could have help us realize the idea behind this blocking of withdrawal if found.


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January 29, 2019, 08:48:24 AM
 #20

Quote
If Maduro was holding Bitcoin instead of gold, specially gold outside of your borders, he wouldn't have had that little problem. Of course Maduro is probably too computer illiterate to get the thing done.

You could make the argument of "if he was holding his gold inside his country he wouldn't have been denied access". Well still, it would make sense to hold Bitcoin and not gold, specially when you have an empire like US always threatening anyone with entering your country and taking all of your gold and oil reserves as they will do with Venezuela. With Bitcoin they couldn't be able to take them as you could have safe backups overseas.

This is an unbeatable logical argument for the bullish case of institutions holding Bitcoin. Im not saying they should dump all of their gold, but definitely dump a certain % and diversify with Bitcoin. This will happen sooner or later, and it just takes a first mover for the rest to follow, they will not be able to afford not having some due game theory, similar to not having powder back in the way when when wars were fought with swords.

There's always a problem when an asset is held by a third party.

The same can be said with any fiat, in my opinion. There is a risk that the bank who holds a country's reserves (especially if its jurisdiction is overseas) goes rogue and it refuses to move funds when it is instructed to. That risk is the same as what has happened here to Mr. Maduro's gold withdrawal.

Bitcoin combats this issue given its decentralization and trustless nature, as there needs no third parties to get a transaction processed and done.

So you're absolutely right, given that bitcoin has the positive traits of gold which makes it valuable (decentralization of currency supply, no single entity issuing the currency), whilst improving on the convenience, portability and trustlessness of remote transactions, it does make sense for countries to start holding bitcoin in reserves.

 
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