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Author Topic: Perfect example of why governments must hold Bitcoin  (Read 20930 times)
deisik
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January 30, 2019, 05:42:57 PM
Last edit: January 30, 2019, 06:28:21 PM by deisik
 #41

~snip

You are looking at it from a wrong angle

Why do you not ask yourself why he would have to cash out in the first place? He could just declare Bitcoin as a legal tender in Venezuela instead of Bolivar (i.e. official currency), and that would solve most if not all woes with hyperinflation in this country. If Bitcoin is too expensive for that purpose and not very efficient as a means of payment (which seems to be the case), he could also make Litecoin an official medium of exchange in addition to Bitcoin being legal tender. This couple would work just wonders together in curbing insane inflation rates in Venezuela
Wrong angle? Are you sure ? These people do not have food to eat, these people are starving to death, there is a huge "marudo diet" where all of a nation lost weight collectively because of the lack of food

Yes, I'm absolutely sure

In fact, you don't even need to be as sure as I am to see things from a proper angle since you can just look into how countries fought with hyperiflation in the past. You may start, for example, with the Weimar republic. Stabilizing money is the first thing you should do if you want to get out of the pitfall you got into. Well, in case of Venezuela, you should first get rid of this clown which usurped power there, indeed

As the saying goes, you can't solve a problem relying on those who created it. And in this I agree with you 100%, i.e. Bitcoin is unlikely to help Venezuelans as long as Maduro rules them unless they start using it on their own (which they are likely already doing anyway, even without any Maduro sticking around)

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January 30, 2019, 06:32:48 PM
 #42

Maybe there's a big reason why the Bank of England denied this guy's withdrawal of gold. Even Bitcoin would not be able to help Maduro on this. Imagine Maduro investing his gold to bitcoin on December 2017 and having it to the present? It would mean a big big loss of profit dude and the government will not afford that kind of loss since they can't even control/manipulate the market that enough. I also think that England listens to US's pieces of advice that will make US benefit.

I remember a movie called "The Aviator" and I saw what's the truth about the old-school executives and government and how they control things and how they decide. It's more of things like this as well where they
are capable of controlling the decision of others in order for them to benefit.


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January 30, 2019, 06:57:24 PM
 #43

Maybe there's a big reason why the Bank of England denied this guy's withdrawal of gold. Even Bitcoin would not be able to help Maduro on this. Imagine Maduro investing his gold to bitcoin on December 2017 and having it to the present? It would mean a big big loss of profit dude and the government will not afford that kind of loss since they can't even control/manipulate the market that enough. I also think that England listens to US's pieces of advice that will make US benefit

In fact, something is better than nothing. And right now he has been denied access to all of the Venezuelan gold stored in London's vaults, i.e. he's got nothing, a big fat nothing, if I may say so. Thus, even if he exchanged his gold at December 2017 prices, he would still have one fifth of something, much better than nothing, if you ask me. And it is unlikely that he would have bought at such prices anyway (if we don't take into account the effect that purchasing so much would have on prices) as Bitcoin had been priced so high only for a very brief period of time



Maybe, someone like him (well, actually a little wiser than him) had been prudently and providently selling his country's gold reserves at that time (and buying bitcoins)

I remember a movie called "The Aviator" and I saw what's the truth about the old-school executives and government and how they control things and how they decide. It's more of things like this as well where they are capable of controlling the decision of others in order for them to benefit

Never saw that movie. What's its main idea, the lesson to take home?

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January 30, 2019, 07:19:06 PM
 #44

If Maduro was holding Bitcoin instead of gold, specially gold outside of your borders, he wouldn't have had that little problem. Of course Maduro is probably too computer illiterate to get the thing done.

You could make the argument of "if he was holding his gold inside his country he wouldn't have been denied access". Well still, it would make sense to hold Bitcoin and not gold, specially when you have an empire like US always threatening anyone with entering your country and taking all of your gold and oil reserves as they will do with Venezuela. With Bitcoin they couldn't be able to take them as you could have safe backups overseas.

This is an unbeatable logical argument for the bullish case of institutions holding Bitcoin. Im not saying they should dump all of their gold, but definitely dump a certain % and diversify with Bitcoin. This will happen sooner or later, and it just takes a first mover for the rest to follow, they will not be able to afford not having some due game theory, similar to not having powder back in the way when when wars were fought with swords.

good luck trying to liquidate $1.2 billion in bitcoin if you needed too.

You think the price is looking bad now, it would be under $1k

Couldnt they just as easily block his access to exchanges rendering his bitcoin worthless?
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January 30, 2019, 08:59:59 PM
 #45

If he used Bitcoin as a store of value, he would lose a lot of money. That is not 1k or 10k, storing such a money with BTC, it is a million dollar loss when Bitcoin loses every $ 1. In addition how and where money would be sold was a extra problem.

 
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January 30, 2019, 09:25:06 PM
 #46

Just the opposite is true. It is good that he has everything in gold. If there were Bitcoins, he would have lost 80% to nowhere due to a fall. And gold remains gold. It is still able to "win" it.
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January 30, 2019, 10:10:41 PM
 #47

I agree with you on the fact that the things happening to him right now won't have occurred if it were to be bitcoin but don't you think his bitcoin asset would have dropped drastically if that's where his investment is in. Well gold price also fluntuate and I think the best way for anyone planning something like this, is to put half of their investment into cryptocurrency which is the next big thing in every sector.

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January 31, 2019, 04:19:38 AM
 #48

EU and UK are toothless loyal US dogs. They doesn't have own decision making process now. The point here isn't is Maduro good or bad, but the point is they are breaking all democratic principles.

Having Bitcoin will not help Maduro anyway. He will need to convert to fiat at some point. And all cryptos are what 120B? This is nothing compared to world finances and needs.

Not really an argument. Appealing to low liquidity just proves that Bitcoin is still tiny and thus potential for growth huge. If you look a the fundamental analysis, it still applies: If Maduro had Bitcoin reserves instead of gold reserves, it would be better than 0, which is what he is going to get as soon as US gets a foot inside Venezuela.

As other realized this fact, Bitcoin would grow and liquidity problems would vanish.

Also we are looking at 1.2 billion. Bitcoin moves $6 billion daily on traded volume. The market could absorb it.
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January 31, 2019, 07:32:16 AM
 #49

EU and UK are toothless loyal US dogs. They doesn't have own decision making process now. The point here isn't is Maduro good or bad, but the point is they are breaking all democratic principles.

Having Bitcoin will not help Maduro anyway. He will need to convert to fiat at some point. And all cryptos are what 120B? This is nothing compared to world finances and needs.

Not really an argument. Appealing to low liquidity just proves that Bitcoin is still tiny and thus potential for growth huge. If you look a the fundamental analysis, it still applies: If Maduro had Bitcoin reserves instead of gold reserves, it would be better than 0, which is what he is going to get as soon as US gets a foot inside Venezuela

Agree, that's a shaky argument

But before "appealing to low liquidity" counterargument, we should ask why would this villain want to cash out everything? Cashing out so much would definitely raise a lot of red flags as to the source of all this wealth. And Maduro may end up losing his bitcoins just as easily as he has already lost the "Aztec gold". In this manner, if we assume he was prudent enough to exchange the gold for crypto, we should as well assume that he wouldn't be that stupid to try selling all his bitcoins at once

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January 31, 2019, 09:16:04 AM
 #50

There is a huge difference between gold and bitcoin right now. Gold has a stable value and bitcoin has a fluctuating value. There is no application of bitcoin in your specific example. I would agree that bitcoin could provide an easier and freer way of withdrawing the money that was stored but for the time being, these two commodities are not the same.

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January 31, 2019, 09:41:11 AM
 #51

I do not see why it is convenient to hold bitcoin rather than gold. I know the benefits of holding bitcoin but we also know its risks and everyone suggested to invest on bitcoin with the money that one can afford to lose. This problem does need to go with a law and it can be resolved. The country knows that they the gold is not their so there is a high chance that it will be withdrawn.

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January 31, 2019, 11:17:00 AM
 #52

One thing that keeps occurring to me is when an institution own bitcoin, who will be in custody of the private key to the wallet? Don't you think this will be an issue for the institutions coming in to invest in Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies?

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February 01, 2019, 04:03:12 AM
 #53

EU and UK are toothless loyal US dogs. They doesn't have own decision making process now. The point here isn't is Maduro good or bad, but the point is they are breaking all democratic principles.

Having Bitcoin will not help Maduro anyway. He will need to convert to fiat at some point. And all cryptos are what 120B? This is nothing compared to world finances and needs.

Not really an argument. Appealing to low liquidity just proves that Bitcoin is still tiny and thus potential for growth huge. If you look a the fundamental analysis, it still applies: If Maduro had Bitcoin reserves instead of gold reserves, it would be better than 0, which is what he is going to get as soon as US gets a foot inside Venezuela

Agree, that's a shaky argument

But before "appealing to low liquidity" counterargument, we should ask why would this villain want to cash out everything? Cashing out so much would definitely raise a lot of red flags as to the source of all this wealth. And Maduro may end up losing his bitcoins just as easily as he has already lost the "Aztec gold". In this manner, if we assume he was prudent enough to exchange the gold for crypto, we should as well assume that he wouldn't be that stupid to try selling all his bitcoins at once

The main point is to plan ahead before the attackers enter your borders looking for your stuff. So if Maduro wanted to do it right he would already hold all of his coins. He would also appoint someone he could trust to have a backup overseas. Typically countries position themselves depending if they are from the western axis or the euro-asian axis. So then this appointed person would move to whatever country is officially supporting Venezuela, like Russia. At this point his wealth would be sitting within safe borders and he would be free to sell or not to sell his bitcoins.

For this reason bitcoin beats gold and therefore is undervalued by the $trillions.
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February 01, 2019, 09:21:41 AM
 #54

EU and UK are toothless loyal US dogs. They doesn't have own decision making process now. The point here isn't is Maduro good or bad, but the point is they are breaking all democratic principles.

Having Bitcoin will not help Maduro anyway. He will need to convert to fiat at some point. And all cryptos are what 120B? This is nothing compared to world finances and needs.

Not really an argument. Appealing to low liquidity just proves that Bitcoin is still tiny and thus potential for growth huge. If you look a the fundamental analysis, it still applies: If Maduro had Bitcoin reserves instead of gold reserves, it would be better than 0, which is what he is going to get as soon as US gets a foot inside Venezuela

Agree, that's a shaky argument

But before "appealing to low liquidity" counterargument, we should ask why would this villain want to cash out everything? Cashing out so much would definitely raise a lot of red flags as to the source of all this wealth. And Maduro may end up losing his bitcoins just as easily as he has already lost the "Aztec gold". In this manner, if we assume he was prudent enough to exchange the gold for crypto, we should as well assume that he wouldn't be that stupid to try selling all his bitcoins at once

The main point is to plan ahead before the attackers enter your borders looking for your stuff

That goes without saying

But if we go along with your thought a little further, it is not so much about money at all (though money in whatever form without doubt plays an important role here) as it is about making allies which you can ask for help in situations like this. With that said, I don't think you can trust anyone in such matters (financial ones) as it is lonely at the top while betrayal is only a matter of time when big money is involved

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February 01, 2019, 01:08:17 PM
 #55

If government speculate holding bitcoin rather than gold, i think its very risky because bitcoin not regulated yet. Many country not recognized bitcoin and bitcoin market cap value still low compare government budget.

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February 01, 2019, 01:50:46 PM
 #56

EU and UK are toothless loyal US dogs. They doesn't have own decision making process now. The point here isn't is Maduro good or bad, but the point is they are breaking all democratic principles.

Having Bitcoin will not help Maduro anyway. He will need to convert to fiat at some point. And all cryptos are what 120B? This is nothing compared to world finances and needs.

Well the UK and EU just buttfucked the US by launching a SWIFT payment alternative to continue trade with Iran.

The EU is pushing an EU army to render the US redundant.


What you are currently witnessing is the beginning of the end of the US with $ the world reserve currency and their role as "world police"
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February 01, 2019, 02:26:58 PM
 #57

If government speculate holding bitcoin rather than gold, i think its very risky because bitcoin not regulated yet. Many country not recognized bitcoin and bitcoin market cap value still low compare government budget.


Well, I think the reason is that Bitcoin is so volatile and it is decentralized the reason they will not be holding it. Unlike gold, it is stable and been there for a lot of years now. Gold will never easily be forgotten or be replaced by other investments or asset, Gold will be Gold like Bitcoin will be Bitcoin. Even though Bitcoin was not recognized by a lot of countries, banned to be exact, it still has its own great accomplishments and we are all part of that.

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February 01, 2019, 02:32:32 PM
 #58

If government speculate holding bitcoin rather than gold, i think its very risky because bitcoin not regulated yet. Many country not recognized bitcoin and bitcoin market cap value still low compare government budget.


Well, I think the reason is that Bitcoin is so volatile and it is decentralized the reason they will not be holding it. Unlike gold, it is stable and been there for a lot of years now. Gold will never easily be forgotten or be replaced by other investments or asset, Gold will be Gold like Bitcoin will be Bitcoin. Even though Bitcoin was not recognized by a lot of countries, banned to be exact, it still has its own great accomplishments and we are all part of that.
I agree. with high volatile, of course, it makes a consideration to hold it, currently it is still difficult to be accepted by many countries, but along with the development of technology, later bitcoin will be like gold of course on the factor of trust

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February 01, 2019, 05:54:20 PM
 #59

Other dictators around the world will look at that and start dumping their assets for bitcoin instead. This could cause a domino effect where bitcoin is the safe haven for all corrupt officials and a new pump begins

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February 01, 2019, 07:48:51 PM
 #60

EU and UK are toothless loyal US dogs. They doesn't have own decision making process now. The point here isn't is Maduro good or bad, but the point is they are breaking all democratic principles.

Having Bitcoin will not help Maduro anyway. He will need to convert to fiat at some point. And all cryptos are what 120B? This is nothing compared to world finances and needs.

Well the UK and EU just buttfucked the US by launching a SWIFT payment alternative to continue trade with Iran.

The EU is pushing an EU army to render the US redundant

Actually, it makes perfect sense

Partnership with Iran despite all US sanctions, Brexit (with Britain always being the closest ally of the US), pan-European army - all of this points to the fact that we are on the verge of the EU being transformed into the Fourth Reich, if not already (with Angela Merkel as a new fuhrer). Let's remember that the prewar Iran (I refer to WWII here) had been actively collaborating with Nazi Germany, and now things start to look suspiciously similar or even familiar (at least to those who kinda been there). Everything might have turned quite differently in WWII if Iran and its oilfields hadn't been preemptively taken over by the Soviets and British in 1941

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