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Author Topic: [300 PH][BTC PPS 100%][EN/CN/RU] Sigmapool.com  (Read 1394 times)
-SigmaPool-
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February 11, 2019, 05:10:23 PM
Last edit: March 06, 2019, 04:49:33 PM by -SigmaPool-
 #1

Greetings, dear miners!

We gathered all the best mining solutions in one ecosystem and are proud to present you the SigmaPool! It is not just another mining pool, but an independent ecosystem for cryptocurrencies mining with top-level income that forms a highly profitable offer for you. In august 2018 we started mining bitcoin and since then, less than in half a year, we reached a stable 300 PH/S capacity. At the moment we are in top 20 pools and have everything required to get into the top 5.
You can see our stats at btc.com explorer

What does the SigmaPool have today?
  • BTC pool PPS rewards
  • Regular payouts
  • Welcome bonuses
  • Supports AsicBoost

Bitcoin
  • Minimum withdrawal 0.001 BTC
  • 100% PPS
Our PPS reward system is based on distributing 12.5 BTC per block between all miners
Last 24h profitability 0.00004141 BTC / TH/s
You will always find the up-to-date data on BTC per TH/S on the main page

For miners we offer:
  • Unique firmware
  • Transparent income system
  • Convenient monitoring and ASIC control
  • AsicBoost support
  • Application store
  • No empty blocks
  • Regular payouts
  • Support 24/7
  • Active community

Coming up soon:
  • Moblie app
  • Multi-currency wallet
  • Cloud mining
  • Hosting

We have an application store for you where developers have an opportunity to post their applications and services for miners.
For all the newcomers, we have a special welcome-bonus.

Use this code SIGMA19 at registration and get your 0,5% bonus for 30 days!

Get started:
Code:
EU Server #1  stratum+tcp://eu1.btc.sigmapool.com:3333
EU Server #2  stratum+tcp://eu2.btc.sigmapool.com:3333
EU Server #3  stratum+tcp://eu3.btc.sigmapool.com:3333
EU Server #4  stratum+tcp://eu4.btc.sigmapool.com:3333
US Server #1  stratum+tcp://us1.btc.sigmapool.com:3333
US Server #2  stratum+tcp://us2.btc.sigmapool.com:3333
CN Server #1  stratum+tcp://cn1.btc.sigmapool.com:3333


Pool1 URL stratum+tcp://eu.btc.sigmapool.com:3333
Pool1 worker username.workername
Pool1 password x


Pool2 URL stratum+tcp://eu1.btc.sigmapool.com:3333
Pool2 worker username.workername
Pool2 password x

F.A.Q.
SigmaStore

Our contacts:
Official SigmaPool website
Official Sigmapool telegram chat @Sigmapool_en
Official Sigmapool telegram news channel @EN_Sigmapool
Telegram support bot @SigmaPoolSupport_bot
Facebook
Twitter
Collaborations: contact@sigmapool.com

Join the most profitable and technological pool!


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-SigmaPool-
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February 11, 2019, 05:20:51 PM
 #2

Soon enough, the Sigmapool is going to prove its own reserved funds for the payouts.
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February 11, 2019, 09:45:55 PM
 #3

Soon enough, the Sigmapool is going to prove its own reserved funds for the payouts.
Firstly, this is the BTC section of the forum, so my discussion is only about BTC
(the rest of the scam coins count for nothing anyway)

Going by Meni's statistical analysis of PPS - as I've referenced and described here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104664.msg48795003#msg48795003

Since you say 100% PPS - that means you keep the transaction fees.
Since July last year, that has been around a 1% fee - yes you are lying saying there is no fee at 100% PPS

What does the SigmaPool have today?
  • BTC\LTC pool
  • Mining without fees

So using 1% as your fee, the calculation for your necessary reserve is simply:
12.5 x 6.9078 / (2 x 0.01) = 4317.375 BTC
and using a US$ conversion rate (today) of 1BTC = $3,500 that's about $15.1 million

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
Discord support invite at https://kano.is/ Majority developer of the ckpool code
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
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February 11, 2019, 11:12:08 PM
 #4

Since you say 100% PPS - that means you keep the transaction fees.
Since July last year, that has been around a 1% fee - yes you are lying saying there is no fee at 100% PPS

So using 1% as your fee, the calculation for your necessary reserve is simply:
12.5 x 6.9078 / (2 x 0.01) = 4317.375 BTC
and using a US$ conversion rate (today) of 1BTC = $3,500 that's about $15.1 million

Dear Kano,

We’ve been waiting for your reply and are glad to greet you at our topic.
Firstly, would like to mention that we do have our application store that brings us profit (there is more than 1% we do gain by simply providing the services). At a certain point we will add the PPLNS model to lower all the possible risks.
Furthermore, we are going to use a different from other pools monetization model at the SigmaPool. Creating a pool was just the first step - more to come.
Despite the fact that we already have faced the bad luck times, we are proud to declare that we managed to keep the payouts regular and stable (thanks to our reserves), and we have the best community (where we will be glad to see you and every new miner) that can prove our stability and the level of our services.
Lastly, understanding that we haven’t given a complete answer to your question, we would like to note the fact that pretty soon we will be able to prove that we do have the funds required to sustain the stable PPS payouts (and yes, we do have more than 2000 BTC behind us).

P.S. The 1% fee you are talking about is not a fee - it is the only way to make a PPS method not going broke without touching miner’s earnings. We do believe that giving miners 12.5 BTC per block is more fair than giving them 1% and taking 3% away.
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February 11, 2019, 11:29:51 PM
 #5

...
P.S. The 1% fee you are talking about is not a fee - it is the only way to make a PPS method not going broke without touching miner’s earnings. We do believe that giving miners 12.5 BTC per block is more fair than giving them 1% and taking 3% away.
Yes it is a fee.

If you don't understand that paying 100% PPS is a fee, then you got a lot more problems than just the fact that you need 4317.375 BTC to reduce the risk of the pool going broke with a 1% fee.

Miner earnings are Block Reward + Transaction fees
No you can't take the Transaction fees and pretend you aren't charging a fee.

PPS MUST charge a fee or the pool is 100% expected to go broke.
If the fee was actually 0% then you are guaranteed to go broke.

The 1% means you have a low chance (0.1%) of going broke if you already have a 4317.375 BTC balance and continue to top it up whenever it gets below that.

And it doesn't matter if you have one PPS miner or two PPS miners, it's still the same amount.
PPS pool size is not part of the calculation.

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
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February 11, 2019, 11:34:19 PM
 #6

Sigma, you are incredibly stubborn person who still doesnt want to understand facts and reasoning.. Sigh..

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February 12, 2019, 01:14:11 AM
Last edit: February 12, 2019, 09:53:49 AM by frodocooper
Merited by frodocooper (1)
 #7

@ op  you are paying 100%  of block award and keeping  all transactions fees.

so  if you change your title to this  Re: [240 PH][BTC PPS 100%][0% FEE on block Award][EN/CN/RU] Sigmapool.com

you would be fully honest.

As to whether you tap out and go broke as kano says you will.

My guess is you that with 230 ph you may go broke.

you would earn 296 btc a month  with that much hash

that is 24 blocks a month.

 so 3 x  85% months

is  3x24 = 72 x .85 = 61.2 blocks  meaning  10 or 11 blocks short   which is 137.5 btc

a lot depends on  two things  will you get attacked by a bad player?
if you do get attacked you will be tapped out.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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February 12, 2019, 01:54:04 AM
 #8

...

a lot depends on  two things  will you get attacked by a bad player?
if you do get attacked you will be tapped out.

Nope, it's simple statistics what to expect, nothing to do with gut feelings or guesses.

Read Meni's report.
https://bitcoil.co.il/pool_analysis.pdf

If you can't understand it, there's no point giving an opinion on the subject.

All withholding does is make PPS worse.
Avoiding withholding does not make the statistics magically invalid.

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
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February 12, 2019, 04:46:28 AM
Last edit: February 12, 2019, 09:55:47 AM by frodocooper
Merited by frodocooper (1)
 #9

Nope, it's simple statistics what to expect, nothing to do with gut feelings or guesses.

Read Meni's report.
https://bitcoil.co.il/pool_analysis.pdf

If you can't understand it, there's no point giving an opinion on the subject.

All withholding does is make PPS worse.
Avoiding withholding does not make the statistics magically invalid.

So B = 12.5

this is a quote of you from an early post

So using 1% as your fee, the calculation for your necessary reserve is simply:
12.5 x 6.9078 / (2 x 0.01) = 4317.375 BTC
and using a US$ conversion rate (today) of 1BTC = $3,500 that's about $15.1 million

this is Meni's paper

https://bitcoil.co.il/pool_analysis.pdf

so it looks to me  that you used this. formula below which I got from appendix c of meni's paper

so you used 12.5 for block size you used 6.9078   and you used 2 x 0.01 which equals 4317.375 btc

but   what  did you use to get that 6.9078  

you could have used  1 in 1000 or 1 in 100 or 1 in 10

the example below uses 1 in 1000  is that what you used?


I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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February 12, 2019, 04:52:52 AM
 #10

MY alternate account as I want to space this. Not double post.

This is a secondary account .
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February 12, 2019, 04:54:11 AM
Last edit: February 12, 2019, 09:58:56 AM by frodocooper
Merited by frodocooper (2)
 #11

So you said simply put  and showed that number  I ask again did you use a 1 in 1000 factor?

Did you use a 1 in 100 factor?

as I see it

 1 n 1000
 1 n 100
 1 n 50

all give big difference in the reserve needed.

So what was the 1 n factor.

1000 , 100 , 50

if I mine at viabtc.com   and get 97% pps with a very small chance of bankruptcy
it could be worth losing 3%

if I mine at op's pool and get 100% pps  with a larger chance of bankruptcy  it may be worth it to me.

so if you are using 1 in 1000 to get your reserve number

you have attempted to deceive all the mathematically challenged miners reading this.

so what is the answer how did you get that 6.9078 number?

I can tell you if you used 1000 and I don't mind 100 then he needs 1/10 the reserve

BTW   I am pretty sure you used 1 in 1000

now  using 1 in 100  he needs a reserve of much less  then what you put in correct?

and if he stays at 240ph which is what he was at  he would make a block  about every 1.2 days which means he should make 100 blocks in 4 months  now if he has a reserve of 50 blocks or 600 coins. he would not go bankrupt in the first 4 months.

Honestly speaking I think he is crazy trying to do a 100% pps and I won't mine with him.

but if you toss up a number that says he needs a reserve of 4317 BTC  you should say  that is for a 999/1000 chance of not going bankrupt
you did not.  you mislead people .  I normally do not go off on people but to top it off you tell me if I don't understand don't voice an opinion.

Dude I do understand.  so my opinion is  you left out that 1/1000 or 999/1000  number out to mislead people that struggle with the math.
I can't code but I know math.

 So to the op
if you want a 99.9% chance of not going bankrupt you need  4317 coins

If you want a 99.0% chance of not going bankrupt you need less then 4317 coins.

Maybe as a peace leaf kano could calculate that for you.

Haw about that k man

do 99.9%  you did  4317 coins
do 99.8%
do 99.7%
do 99.6%
do 99.5%
do 99.4%
do 99.3%
do 99.2%
do 99.1%
do 99.0%

or leave the guy alone as you were pretty much out of line here.

At the op  my guess is you don't even have a 50 coin reserve and will go broke but that is a completely different story.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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February 12, 2019, 05:33:35 AM
 #12

Phil, 1 in a 100 or 1 in a 50 factor would mean that you agree him having a higher chance to go into the bankrupcy.

I think Kano's numbers are good,
because a pool with those numbers is not a risk for the miners.

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February 12, 2019, 06:16:18 AM
Last edit: February 12, 2019, 06:26:32 AM by kano
Merited by NotFuzzyWarm (1)
 #13

Phil, 1 in a 100 or 1 in a 50 factor would mean that you agree him having a higher chance to go into the bankrupcy.

I think Kano's numbers are good,
because a pool with those numbers is not a risk for the miners.
I used Meni's choice 0.1% - phil can go argue with Meni if he doesn't think that's realistic - though phil seems to know nothing about statistics ...

I explained the equation quite clearly on the other thread - so anyone can simply just plug numbers into it.

But assuming it's ok for a pool to have a 1% (or even 10%) chance of going broke is ludicrous.

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
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February 12, 2019, 06:32:11 AM
Last edit: February 12, 2019, 02:22:47 PM by philipma1957
Merited by frodocooper (2)
 #14

@ hagssfin. I understand it.

Problem is math Kano gave was deceptive. And he implied I did not understand it.

At 240 ph  he needs a practical reserve of more then 140 coins as I explained.

If he is with held attacked he will need more.

And even a reserve of 4300 coins he will bust out if he suffers from a large withholding attack.

So in a magical world of zero withholding attacks 4300 coins. Would give hive a 999 out of 1000 chance

edit Of not going  bust.

I don’t really care about the op having a reserve that big. As a 999/1000 safety factor is more then enough.

I would argue I would mine with this pool if he had enough coins to make the safety factor 199/200

As he pays 100% of 12.5
And via btc pays 97% of 12.5

I resent Kano tossing out the number he did and then acting that he is smart and I don’t understand the math. And that I am not entitled to have an opinion on the thread.

Here is my opinion.

I think a reserve of enough coins to make the risk  of going broke 1/200 would make the pool worth playing.

I think the op does not have that many coins.

I think that if the pool catches on it will be with holding attacked.

I won’t mine at the pool since I think the pool will fail.

To further explain that if I had hundreds of coins for reserve I would not open the pool and do just tx fees.

I would do 98% which is still better then  anybody else.
My guess is op is hoping the pool has a hot streak early.
My guess is if pool has a cold streak early op,will fold it.
My guess is op has very little coins in reserve and is following the plan I just outlined.


I also think I would like to see Kano calculate

For 1/1000
For 1/500
For 1/200
For 1/100.

And say phil you are right I used the 1/1000 figure and did not explain it.

But Kano has never admitted being wrong for anything I ever called him on.

Also I should  shut the fuck up as this post will piss more people off.

Kano crossed posted and stayed true to form.

did a bit of edits

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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February 12, 2019, 07:06:33 AM
Merited by BSGMiner (1)
 #15

...

a lot depends on  two things  will you get attacked by a bad player?
if you do get attacked you will be tapped out.

Nope, it's simple statistics what to expect, nothing to do with gut feelings or guesses.

Read Meni's report.
https://bitcoil.co.il/pool_analysis.pdf

If you can't understand it, there's no point giving an opinion on the subject.

All withholding does is make PPS worse.
Avoiding withholding does not make the statistics magically invalid.


@ hagssfin. I understand it.

Problem is math Kano gave was deceptive. And he implied I did not understand it.

At 240 ph  he needs a practical reserve of more then 140 coins as I explained.
Where does this bullshit 140 come from?
Seriously can't you just put the simple numbers into the equation on the other page?

...
So in a magical world of zero withholding attacks 4300 coins. Would give hive a 999 out of 1000 chance

Of going bust.

I don’t really care about the op having a reserve that big. As a 999/1000 safety factor is more then enough.

I would argue I would mine with this pool if he had enough coins to make the safety factor 199/200

As he pays 100% of 12.5
And via btc pays 97% of 12.5

I resent Kano tossing out the number he did and then acting that he is smart and I don’t understand the math. And that I am not entitled to have an opinion on the thread.

SO ... did you try the: VERY SIMPLE to calculate, and very bad suggestion of, a 1% chance of failure?

OBVIOUSLY not.

I also think I would like to see Kano calculate

For 1/1000
For 1/500
For 1/200
For 1/100.
See, I do realise why this doesn't matter, but to make you look even more stupid I'll do the calculations Smiley

We already know 1/1000 that I used the same number that Meni used - that produces that number in the middle ln(1/δ) = ln (1/0.001) = "6.9078"
Then the equation is (as already stated) 12.5 x 6.9078 / (2 x 0.01) = 4317.375 BTC

But what the heck, lets jump to the bottom of your list and go for a ridiculously risky pool with a 1% chance of going bankrupt.
ln(1/δ) = ln(1/0.01) = 4.6052 HOLD YOUR HORSES! that's not much less than "6.9078" (yes I did realise this)
So what do we get for the BTC required?
12.5 x 4.6052 / (2 x 0.01) = 2878 BTC

No doubt the pool doesn't have 2878 BTC in it's wallet either.

But what the hey, I'll do a quick table of all 4 numbers:
1/1000 4317.375 BTC
1/500 3884 BTC
1/200 3311 BTC
1/100 2878 BTC

Yeah I don't see anything as tiny as 140 BTC ANYWHERE in that Tongue
I do see a bit more than 20 times that if the pool is going down the path of a high 1% chance of going bankrupt ...

Don't you hate non-linear maths? Tongue

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
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Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
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February 12, 2019, 07:28:38 AM
Last edit: February 12, 2019, 10:10:51 AM by frodocooper
 #16

it is late I am tired.

I can show that miners only need for him to have  a reserve to pay 34 days in a row.

via btc pays me 97  op pays me 100 each day in mining

34 days in a row = 3298 from via btc

34 days in a row = 3400 from op

op folds   runs skips  etc  I loose on 35th day

so  via btc would have paid me 3395
op would have paid me            3400     so if he had enough coin to pay for 34 days  I am better off with op.

since pool should make   24 blocks in a month   it would need to do 11 blcoks  and the reserve of 140 would  be enough

making 11 blocks vs expected 24 is more then 100 to one.

my point was he may need a much smaller reserve if he is legit for a miner to profit. and that asking for him to have a 4300 coin is too much

But honestly  everyone that runs a high paying pps  seems to go broke

why is that?

they are simply hoping to have an early hot streak  and if they don't they bail.

I doubt he has 2 blocks in reserve no less 13  or 350

thanks for the break down on bankruptcy for op.

I would guess it is more like a 95% chance for him to go broke.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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February 12, 2019, 07:38:10 AM
 #17

...
it is late I am tired.

 I can show that miners only need for him to have  a reserve to pay 34 days in a row.

via btc pays me 97  op pays me 100 each day in mining

34 days in a row = 3298 from via btc

34 days in a row = 3400 from op


op folds   runs skips  etc  I loose on 35th day



so  via btc would have paid me 3395
op would have paid me            3400     so if he had enough coin to pay for 34 days  I am better off with op.

since pool should make   24 blocks in a month   it would need to do 11 blcoks  and the reserve of 140 would  be enough

making 11 blocks vs expected 24 is more then 100 to one.

my point was he may need a much smaller reserve if he is legit for a miner to profit. and that asking for him to have a 4300 coin is too much

But honestly  everyone that runs a high paying pps  seems to go broke

why is that?

they are simply hoping to have an early hot streak  and if they don't they bail.


I doubt he has 2 blocks in reserve no less 13  or 350
So you've given up and are ignoring the statistics now ... (since it doesn't match what you want)

Pulling the number '34 days' out of your ass is pointless.

I'll link it yet again https://bitcoil.co.il/pool_analysis.pdf

... and it has nothing to do with pool size.

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
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February 12, 2019, 09:11:40 AM
Last edit: February 12, 2019, 10:11:10 AM by frodocooper
 #18

I never said the statistics you gave were wrong I said you used them deceptively.

try another way.

practical is what matters.

240 ph =  10 coins a day  or 3650 coins a year

so if the op's pool  hits zero blocks for a year vs the almost 300 it should hit  the op would  pay out 3650 coins of his 4300 coin reserve

fuck no he would shut the pool down thinking he is being robbed some how.

to be a little more realistic   lets say he hits  290 blocks  down 10 =  125 coins

if I mine there for 365 days  earning 100 a day vs 97 a day  I earn 36500 vs  35405

and his reserve of under 140 coins   worked for me for an entire year.

your use of meni's numbers does not apply  for the miner.

Now if you want to argue you don't care about the miner in your example and you are concerned for the pool op  then you are correct you are warning him he should go broke and truth is he should go broke without  a huge backup  of coins.  

why risk the coin if you have it?  I guess you and i look at this differently My angle is that of being a miner and your is that of being a pool operator.

So pool op charge 2% plus tx fees  not 0%  plus tx fees  you will still beat viabtc rates  and stand a better chance of not going broke.

3311/3 = 1104 coins (reserve) gives you a 199/200 rate of success.

good luck to the op  since I am betting he won't last past summer at just the tx fees

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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February 12, 2019, 09:56:50 AM
Last edit: February 13, 2019, 12:21:32 AM by frodocooper
Merited by frodocooper (2)
 #19

So you've given up and are ignoring the statistics now ... (since it doesn't match what you want)

Pulling the number '34 days' out of your ass is pointless.

I'll link it yet again https://bitcoil.co.il/pool_analysis.pdf

... and it has nothing to do with pool size.

pool size matters as a practical matter.

If 1 ph is mining at 100% pps  payout is 1.245 btc

a 4300 coin reserve  would last for 3453 months  if a block was never hit.  many ½ ings would happen so it would last much longer.

if 240 ph is mining at 100% pps payout is  300 btc a month  

a 4300 coin reserve would last for 14 months with no blocks hit.  about may next year.

block would change to 6.25  and even if tx fees stayed same size it would be 2x the %

so 4300 would drop to 1075.

B 1n 1000

2 x .02

or 6.25 x 6.9../  2 x .02 =  about 1078 coin reserve

tired but above is accurate.

below I am not as sure.

Since pool should do  at least 90% luck  practical number is not 4300 more like 300 -270 = 30 x 12.5 = 375 coins if he stays at

240ph    which gets him to ½ ing

so what is the odds if 14 months at 90%  ?

or 270 block when you should get 300

edit

1)The reserve formula  from meni  is accurate at day 1 or 2 of ½ ing start

the closer you get to the next ½ ing   it is less accurate  2x on last day Due to B changing

2) when fee is the tax fee  the  change is 2x the fee or ½ the  old reserve due to f changing in ratio to B

3) so   2 x 2 as applied to this pool  so reserve is 1075 vs 4300  next ½ ing

4) pool size is a factor as the smaller  the pool the more likely you can reach the next ½ ing  with a smaller reserve since you pay out much less

5) close to ½ ing time wise the pool is more likely to reach a new lower reserve/

@ op and kano   thanks for this it was fun

@ meni  if you still read this forum  tell me I am right or wrong. about your reserve  formula as I applied it.

nite all  zzzz

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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February 12, 2019, 10:38:45 AM
 #20

I think, statistics matters here and even at 1% OP may go a long way and get away with it, but he'll have been lucky. Probably even more so if pool doesn't get bigger quickly (again, statistics but wider chance for variance with more participants?).

Bitcoin aside, is it possible somehow merge mining could offset some of that risk? I never really wondered until now if a new pool might actually gear to optimise that.

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