The difference between Ripple and Bitcoin

[cbeast]

What are credit cards, but lines of credit you already have? They are spendable hard assets. All you are doing is adding additional fees to the lines of credit I already use.

I suppose a gateway could issue a line of credit as an IOU since anything of value can be traded but I'm not talking about credit lines.  I'm talking about an actual $100 in the bank or 10BTC in Bitstamp or whatever.  Balances backed by actual assets.

I am not against anything. I am trying to understand what problem Ripple solves. Their is a global problem with institutional credit like "banks, Paypal, frequent flyer miles, rewards cards, etc." Bitcoin is here to solve those problems. Ripple seems to want to exacerbate the problem by adding another layer of abstraction. IOUs are only balances if the institution is solvent.

True and this is where it comes down to who do you trust.  I don't trust Gox so their IOU's are worthless to me.  But I trust Bitstamp, so I take their IOU's at face value and I've done that since before I even knew what Ripple was because I enjoy trading.

Considering that most large businesses are leveraged 40:1 or higher and banks are no exception. Liquidity is a game of arcane prestidigitation. Ripple takes it at face value. Ripple is a quant's dream. It's a junk-bond clearing house on steroids. Forget 40:1, with Ripple you can leverage 4000:1. Line up to get your bank accounts paying 10% interest if you exclusively use our Ripple Card! Who will resist that? Just be sure you get out first before it all collapses.

Your rant about banks and fractional reserve is really preaching to the choir.  I'm with you there.  The rest of it is you simply not getting it.  With Ripple, I can always see how many IOU's have been issued from my gateway and if they are transparent, I can reconcile that with the actual assets they have on hand.  

Like I said. Trust No One.

Then you are one who plans to never use an exchange to buy and sell BTC correct?  You never plan to use Bitpay to pay a merchant, correct?  If so, there's nothing left to discuss because Ripple is not for you and that's cool.  You're hoping for an all BTC world.  I can dig it...I just don't believe that will actually be our reality but then again, who knows.

Why don't you trust MtGox IOUs? What makes them any different than Bitstamp aside from a temporary shutdown of services? I don't think anyone know anything for certain yet. My point is, that Bitstamp may be even worse than MtGox and we just don't know it yet. So what good are any IOUs outside of a very limited market?

BTW, I am not hoping for a Bitcoin world. Color your coins and let me choose which I will cautiously trust. Bitcoin will stabilize in value as the raw materials for colored coin banks, payment systems, frequent flyer miles, rewards cards, etc. They will compete on a global financial battlefield.

[~Coinseeker~]

Why don't you trust MtGox IOUs? What makes them any different than Bitstamp aside from a temporary shutdown of services? I don't think anyone know anything for certain yet. My point is, that Bitstamp may be even worse than MtGox and we just don't know it yet.

This is true but I choose to trust them because I want to buy and sell bitcoins.  I can't do that if my bitcoins are in my wallet or in cold storage.

So what good are any IOUs outside of a very limited market?

In Ripple, IOU's can be used in a global market. Through any payment system connected to the Ripple network.  Today it may be limited because of the limited number of payment networks integrated with Ripple, but that will change in time.

BTW, I am not hoping for a Bitcoin world. Color your coins and let me choose which I will cautiously trust. Bitcoin will stabilize in value as the raw materials for colored coin banks, payment systems, frequent flyer miles, rewards cards, etc. They will compete on a global financial battlefield.

Ah, so you do believe in trust. Just "cautiously". Gotcha.  

Is that why you didn't answer my questions?  Do you buy and sell BTC at any exchange?  Do you use Bitpay to buy from merchants?

[cbeast]

Why don't you trust MtGox IOUs? What makes them any different than Bitstamp aside from a temporary shutdown of services? I don't think anyone know anything for certain yet. My point is, that Bitstamp may be even worse than MtGox and we just don't know it yet.

This is true but I choose to trust them because I want to buy and sell bitcoins.  I can't do that if my bitcoins are in my wallet or in cold storage.

So what good are any IOUs outside of a very limited market?

In Ripple, IOU's can be used in a global market. Through any payment system connected to the Ripple network.

BTW, I am not hoping for a Bitcoin world. Color your coins and let me choose which I will cautiously trust. Bitcoin will stabilize in value as the raw materials for colored coin banks, payment systems, frequent flyer miles, rewards cards, etc. They will compete on a global financial battlefield.

Ah, so you do believe in trust. Just "cautiously". Gotcha.  

Is that why you didn't answer my questions?  Do you buy and sell BTC at any exchange?  Do you use Bitpay to buy from merchants?

Artistic license. Try not to take everything so literally. One beef I have with Ripple is that they are very well funded and very secretive. In fact, they gave early adopters a sweet deal. But that sets off all kinds of trust alarms. It's hard to verify anything they claim. As far as trading goes, I don't do large amounts anymore because the exchanges are much less predictable and there is more stability. If I will accept colored coin vouchers, it will be from someone I have independent verification of trustworthiness that only comes from face-to-face. Reputation systems are better than nothing, but are subject to the long con.

Here's where I am coming from. I have learned a lot about small business over the many decades of my existence. I have seen the changes in America and around the world. Some things about human interaction don't change. Technology only makes them more efficient. I would prefer we take the best parts and build something better. I am not against credit itself, it is a necessary evil, but colored coins should be more than ample and efficient to deal with it. If at some point a government or other large asset holder decides to exchange colored coins for their own RippleRapple or whatever color and make it profitable, then the cycle of power abuse will continue. But at least the blockchain will have records and there will be consequences for bad agents.

[~Coinseeker~]

Artistic license. Try not to take everything so literally. One beef I have with Ripple is that they are very well funded and very secretive. In fact, they gave early adopters a sweet deal. But that sets off all kinds of trust alarms. It's hard to verify anything they claim. As far as trading goes, I don't do large amounts anymore because the exchanges are much less predictable and there is more stability. If I will accept colored coin vouchers, it will be from someone I have independent verification of trustworthiness that only comes from face-to-face. Reputation systems are better than nothing, but are subject to the long con.

If you trade any amount, then you are already dealing in IOU's.  The difference between your IOU's and mine, is that mine are liquid and yours aren't.

Here's where I am coming from. I have learned a lot about small business over the many decades of my existence. I have seen the changes in America and around the world. Some things about human interaction don't change. Technology only makes them more efficient. I would prefer we take the best parts and build something better. I am not against credit itself, it is a necessary evil, but colored coins should be more than ample and efficient to deal with it. If at some point a government or other large asset holder decides to exchange colored coins for their own RippleRapple or whatever color and make it profitable, then the cycle of power abuse will continue. But at least the blockchain will have records and there will be consequences for bad agents.

Hey, I respect anyones right to transact the way they choose.  I think Ripple does exactly what you just said, takes the best parts and builds something better.  No central clearing and no centralized exchanges.  As for RL's and the founders "sweet deal", I personally don't care.  They have built something so magnificent and certain to help so many people around the world, that if they can make this all it can be, then they deserve it.  I hope they become the worlds first trillion-aires.  

IMO, their "secrecy" is justified because they are not pushing for a mass userbase at the moment nor are they seeking to bring in mass amounts of speculators.  They are trying to implement Ripple from the top, down.  You can't go making all your meetings with payment systems like banks, regulators, market makers and other potential gateways public.  The things that are relevant to the community, they do share and are getting better at it all the time.

I respect your views and I have really enjoyed chatting with you.  I think in time, when Ripple has gotten more time under it's belt and has increased liquidity, gateways and overall utility of the network, someone as smart as you will give it a second look.  I don't think you really get it but I'm certain you will in time, I have no doubt.  You may still opt for something else and that's cool too...but I think you will at minimum see the brilliance in it.  

Regardless what you or I choose in the digital currency space, we're still on the same team and that's something I try not to forget.  We want a better monetary future and come hell or high water, we're going to get there brother.  

[cbeast]

Artistic license. Try not to take everything so literally. One beef I have with Ripple is that they are very well funded and very secretive. In fact, they gave early adopters a sweet deal. But that sets off all kinds of trust alarms. It's hard to verify anything they claim. As far as trading goes, I don't do large amounts anymore because the exchanges are much less predictable and there is more stability. If I will accept colored coin vouchers, it will be from someone I have independent verification of trustworthiness that only comes from face-to-face. Reputation systems are better than nothing, but are subject to the long con.

If you trade any amount, then you are already dealing in IOU's.  The difference between your IOU's and mine, is that mine are liquid and yours aren't.

If I didn't trust my wife, I would be dead. That doesn't mean I trust your wife. If you don't see the difference, then this is a lost point to argue. Liquidity is not universally recognized. I can say the same thing: "The difference between your IOU's and mine, is that mine are liquid and yours aren't."

Here's where I am coming from. I have learned a lot about small business over the many decades of my existence. I have seen the changes in America and around the world. Some things about human interaction don't change. Technology only makes them more efficient. I would prefer we take the best parts and build something better. I am not against credit itself, it is a necessary evil, but colored coins should be more than ample and efficient to deal with it. If at some point a government or other large asset holder decides to exchange colored coins for their own RippleRapple or whatever color and make it profitable, then the cycle of power abuse will continue. But at least the blockchain will have records and there will be consequences for bad agents.

Hey, I respect anyones right to transact the way they choose.  I think Ripple does exactly what you just said, takes the best parts and builds something better.  No central clearing and no centralized exchanges.  As for RL's and the founders "sweet deal", I personally don't care.  They have built something so magnificent and certain to help so many people around the world, that if they can make this all it can be, then they deserve it.  I hope they become the worlds first trillion-aires.  

IMO, they're "secrecy" is justified because they are not pushing for a mass userbase at the moment nor are they seeking to bring in mass amounts of speculators.  They are trying to implement Ripple from the top, down.  You can't go making all your meetings with payment systems like banks, regulators, market makers and other potential gateways public.  The things that are relevant to the community, they do share and are getting better at it all the time.

I respect your views and I have really enjoyed chatting with you.  I think in time, when Ripple has gotten more time under it's belt and has increased liquidity, gateways and overall utility of the network, someone as smart as you will give it a second look.  I don't think you really get it but I'm certain you will in time, I have no doubt.  You may still opt for something else and that's cool too...but I think you will at minimum see the brilliance in it.  

Regardless what you or I choose, we're still on the same team and that's something I try not to forget.  We want a better monetary future and we're going to get there.

May the best coin win.

[~Coinseeker~]

If I didn't trust my wife, I would be dead. That doesn't mean I trust your wife. If you don't see the difference, then this is a lost point to argue. Liquidity is not universally recognized. I can say the same thing: "The difference between your IOU's and mine, is that mine are liquid and yours aren't."

You could say it, but you'd be lying.  Yours are locked in a centralized exchange.  If they decide to halt withdrawals, you're screwed.  If mine halts withdrawals, mine remain liquid, thus I can still trade them.  They'll likely be worth a lot less but still liquid nonetheless.

May the best coin win.

It's not a competition for me.  That's the beauty of Ripple.  Ripple is currency agnostic thus, it's success is not determined by the success or failure of any coin or currency.  Not even XRP.  Whatever coin you choose, I hope it goes big, not just for your benefit but because that means we'll soon be seeing liquidity for it in the Ripple network.  

[cbeast]

If I didn't trust my wife, I would be dead. That doesn't mean I trust your wife. If you don't see the difference, then this is a lost point to argue. Liquidity is not universally recognized. I can say the same thing: "The difference between your IOU's and mine, is that mine are liquid and yours aren't."

You could say it, but you'd be lying.  Yours are locked in a centralized exchange.  If they decide to halt withdrawals, you're screwed.  If mine halts withdrawals, mine remain liquid, thus I can still trade them.  They'll likely be worth a lot less but still liquid nonetheless.

An exchange is centralized by definition. A decentralized exchange is a misnomer, they are distributed exchanges, but they still require trust and are centralized to a lesser degree. Like mining pools, there is much debate about how they should operate. Liquidity is a function of the the risk. Exchanges are all high risk. My liquidity and your liquidity are apples and oranges. If you are on Bitstamp in the USA and I am on BTCChina in Beijing, then arbitrage is very difficult. I don't think Ripple transactions from BTCChina will be any more accepted by Bitstamp than their vouchers.

They'll likely be worth a lot less but still liquid nonetheless.

Or nothing. You could say Bitstamp has more liquidity, but to me in China, you'd be lying. It's a matter of perspective. Unless your exchange is insured against failure or Ripple is somehow able to create trust between enemy economies, then I see little chance of surviving unless by force. Bitcoin has little chance of failure except by force. I guess it comes down to whose side you're on.

[ahbritto]

At this point in the discussion, can we safely say that "The difference between Ripple and Bitcoin" is ... Bitcoin?

Ripple advocates are inclusive. They are advocates of Ripple, Bitcoin, and currency choice in general.

Bitcoin advocates, who are not also Ripple advocates, are divisive. They see Bitcoin and Ripple as competing systems.

[cbeast]

At this point in the discussion, can we safely say that "The difference between Ripple and Bitcoin" is ... Bitcoin?

Ripple advocates are inclusive. They are advocates of Ripple, Bitcoin, and currency choice in general.

Bitcoin advocates, who are not also Ripple advocates, are divisive. They see Bitcoin and Ripple as competing systems.

Not true. Ripple isn't a working system yet. Ripple is competing with colored coin, mastercoin, and all the altcoins. Ripple is an untested idea at this point. I am open minded, but can't I wait until there is published sourcecode for the clients and gateways before getting behind it? Let's see some gold trading advertised for Ripple.

[ahbritto]

I am open minded, but can't I wait until there is published sourcecode for the clients and gateways before getting behind it?

Source code for the client: https://github.com/ripple/ripple-client

The client can be used as a manual gateway: https://ripple.com/wiki/Ripple_for_Gateways#Creating_a_Manual_Gateway

More information on operating a gateway: https://ripple.com/ripple-gateways.pdf

Let's see some gold trading advertised for Ripple.

Gold: https://www.ripplesingapore.com

See it trading: http://www.ripplecharts.com

[freequant]

If I didn't trust my wife, I would be dead. That doesn't mean I trust your wife. If you don't see the difference, then this is a lost point to argue. Liquidity is not universally recognized. I can say the same thing: "The difference between your IOU's and mine, is that mine are liquid and yours aren't."

You could say it, but you'd be lying.  Yours are locked in a centralized exchange.  If they decide to halt withdrawals, you're screwed.  If mine halts withdrawals, mine remain liquid, thus I can still trade them.  They'll likely be worth a lot less but still liquid nonetheless.

An exchange is centralized by definition.

I'm curious about where you looked up that funky definition. Source?

A decentralized exchange is a misnomer, they are distributed exchanges, but they still require trust and are centralized to a lesser degree.

How about the OTC market?
How about the black market?
How about the food chain (is god doing the arbitrage between supply and demand)?
How about Ripple? Ah, yeah, we've already mentionned that one...

Ripple's built in distributed exchange doesn't require any trust at all and is decentralized.
What requires trust in Ripple is the redemption of IOUs, but that has nothing to do with the exchange in itself.
You could start a day-trading business with the XRPs you get from a giveaway, and grow your stash by trading currency pairs on the distributed exchange without *ever* going through a gateway. Everything  you would do would then be perfectly decentralized and trustless given the fact you just don't care about being able to redeem your IOUs.

Liquidity is a function of the the risk.

Again, that's a very exotic definition of liquidity, but I guess you must have an equally exotic definition of risk that makes it fit all together. Source?

They'll likely be worth a lot less but still liquid nonetheless.

Or nothing. You could say Bitstamp has more liquidity, but to me in China, you'd be lying. It's a matter of perspective.

Liquidity isn't a subjective quantity. It is an objective quantity based on the quantifiable availability of supply and demand for a given asset, that would allow you to open or close a position.
What Coinseeker is telling you is that, if you hold the debt of an exchange (be it Bitstamp or BTCChina) as a balance at that exchange, and the exchange decides to suspend withdrawal, you have no way to sell back that debt and get back your funds since the exchange who is the only possible counterpart isn't buying back the balance (aka. not allowing you to redeem it to real assets). In other words, you are screwed. But if you hold debt of an exchange as Ripple IOUs, even if the exchange decides to suspend withdrawals, you will still be able to sell your IOUs on the Ripple internal market to third party participants. You will suffer a mark down due to the situation, but you'll still be able to close your position.

So to make a long story short,
If you are using Ripple to hold your exchange balances:
- when there is no problem at the exchange, the liquidity of your assets = liquidity at the exchange + liquidity in Ripple.
- when withdrawal are suspended at the exchange, the liquidity of your assets = liquidity in Ripple.
If you are holding your balance directly at the exchange:
- when there is no problem at the exchange, the liquidity of your assets = liquidity at the exchange
- when withdrawal are suspended at the exchange, the liquidity of your assets = no liquidity at all

You can see that no matter how you look at it, balances held as Ripple IOUs are more liquid than balances held at the issuer exhange. It's not even a matter to debate, it's just a hard fact.

[~Coinseeker~]

< snip...I guess it comes down to whose side you're on.>

It's not about sides but whatever.  I gotta say though, it is frustrating when I see you not only don't know that Ripple is a working system, but that it's been open source since September of last year.  Which means, you haven't looked at Ripple since before that.  So, you're here talking and talking about something you don't know anything about, regurgitating talking points from early last year and I just find that quite disingenuous.  Jokes on me I guess.  

[cbeast]

I am open minded, but can't I wait until there is published sourcecode for the clients and gateways before getting behind it?

Source code for the client: https://github.com/ripple/ripple-client

The client can be used as a manual gateway: https://ripple.com/wiki/Ripple_for_Gateways#Creating_a_Manual_Gateway

More information on operating a gateway: https://ripple.com/ripple-gateways.pdf

Let's see some gold trading advertised for Ripple.

Gold: https://www.ripplesingapore.com

See it trading: http://www.ripplecharts.com

They don't ship gold like Bitcoin accepting stores. You buy vouchers and hope they don't abscond with all your bitcoins. I will look at the source code if it can be used for trading colored coins. I am in the Philippines where there is a real need for exchanges for fiat to Bitcoin and B^2 coins. There really isn't much use here for Ripple yet. Filipinos like tangibles, and it's difficult enough to explain Bitcoin let alone Bitcoin IOUs.

< snip...I guess it comes down to whose side you're on.>

It's not about sides but whatever.  I gotta say though, it is frustrating when I see you not only don't know that Ripple is a working system, but that it's been open source since September of last year.  Which means, you haven't looked at Ripple since before that.  So, you're here talking and talking about something you don't know anything about, regurgitating talking points from early last year and I just find that quite disingenuous.  Jokes on me I guess.   

I still don't see a working system. Why is it taking so long to gain traction?

If I didn't trust my wife, I would be dead. That doesn't mean I trust your wife. If you don't see the difference, then this is a lost point to argue. Liquidity is not universally recognized. I can say the same thing: "The difference between your IOU's and mine, is that mine are liquid and yours aren't."

You could say it, but you'd be lying.  Yours are locked in a centralized exchange.  If they decide to halt withdrawals, you're screwed.  If mine halts withdrawals, mine remain liquid, thus I can still trade them.  They'll likely be worth a lot less but still liquid nonetheless.

An exchange is centralized by definition.

I'm curious about where you looked up that funky definition. Source?

A decentralized exchange is a misnomer, they are distributed exchanges, but they still require trust and are centralized to a lesser degree.

How about the OTC market?
How about the black market?
How about the food chain (is god doing the arbitrage between supply and demand)?
How about Ripple? Ah, yeah, we've already mentionned that one...

Ripple's built in distributed exchange doesn't require any trust at all and is decentralized.
What requires trust in Ripple is the redemption of IOUs, but that has nothing to do with the exchange in itself.
You could start a day-trading business with the XRPs you get from a giveaway, and grow your stash by trading currency pairs on the distributed exchange without *ever* going through a gateway. Everything  you would do would then be perfectly decentralized and trustless given the fact you just don't care about being able to redeem your IOUs.

Liquidity is a function of the the risk.

Again, that's a very exotic definition of liquidity, but I guess you must have an equally exotic definition of risk that makes it fit all together. Source?

They'll likely be worth a lot less but still liquid nonetheless.

Or nothing. You could say Bitstamp has more liquidity, but to me in China, you'd be lying. It's a matter of perspective.

Liquidity isn't a subjective quantity. It is an objective quantity based on the quantifiable availability of supply and demand for a given asset, that would allow you to open or close a position.
What Coinseeker is telling you is that, if you hold the debt of an exchange (be it Bitstamp or BTCChina) as a balance at that exchange, and the exchange decides to suspend withdrawal, you have no way to sell back that debt and get back your funds since the exchange who is the only possible counterpart isn't buying back the balance (aka. not allowing you to redeem it to real assets). In other words, you are screwed. But if you hold debt of an exchange as Ripple IOUs, even if the exchange decides to suspend withdrawals, you will still be able to sell your IOUs on the Ripple internal market to third party participants. You will suffer a mark down due to the situation, but you'll still be able to close your position.

So to make a long story short,
If you are using Ripple to hold your exchange balances:
- when there is no problem at the exchange, the liquidity of your assets = liquidity at the exchange + liquidity in Ripple.
- when withdrawal are suspended at the exchange, the liquidity of your assets = liquidity in Ripple.
If you are holding your balance directly at the exchange:
- when there is no problem at the exchange, the liquidity of your assets = liquidity at the exchange
- when withdrawal are suspended at the exchange, the liquidity of your assets = no liquidity at all

You can see that no matter how you look at it, balances held as Ripple IOUs are more liquid than balances held at the issuer exhange. It's not even a matter to debate, it's just a hard fact.

We'll have to agree to disagree on liquidity. Tell China and Russia they have nothing to worry about with American bonds. They are AAA rated by America.

[Face]

Cbeast,

Why ship gold when you can store it for free and liquidate into anything on ripple, anytime anywhere?
As soon as there are other gold gateways in other locations you can effectively move it without moving it...

[freequant]

Let's see some gold trading advertised for Ripple.

Gold: https://www.ripplesingapore.com
See it trading: http://www.ripplecharts.com

They don't ship gold like Bitcoin accepting stores. You buy vouchers and hope they don't abscond with all your bitcoins.

Give them a break, Ripple is live since less than two years, don't expect every possible options to be available right away.
But if you step back and look at the big picture, what you will see is that Ripple can natively allow to trade virtually anything for anything else, instantly and at no cost, and allow deposit and withdrawals globally. It will take some time before it becomes obvious, but a few years down the line chances are high that Ripple is going to be something huge.

I will look at the source code if it can be used for trading colored coins.

You don't even need to look at the source code: just start using Ripple and read the official forum, and it will become pretty obvious to you that you can trade anything on Ripple including colored coins. Actually, there is no one at the moment acting as colored-coins gateway in Ripple, so it could be an opportunity.

I am in the Philippines where there is a real need for exchanges for fiat to Bitcoin and B^2 coins. There really isn't much use here for Ripple yet.

All that is needed to convert Peso to Bitcoins and the other way round is a Peso Ripple gateway.
Once that milestone is passed, you just need to advertize it locally, and the liquidity will build up.

There are many opportunities for a Rippler based in Philippine:
- creating a Peso gateway
- doing Peso/XRP and Peso/BTC market making
- integrating Ripple in a money transmitting business alongside other options like Western Union.

Filipinos like tangibles, and it's difficult enough to explain Bitcoin let alone Bitcoin IOUs.

Then maybe there is a need for a middle man to handle the conversions.

[grau]

Everything is in the ledger, just like the blockchain.

I've already went through this with another Ripple supporter here:

Integrity of the total XRP count is equivalent to the integrity of the ledger, like the blockchain. Validation is performed by few parties today, and that is legit ongoing grounds for criticism. As the network grows, that will become less of a concern. Harming the integrity of the ledger is not in the interest of current Validators or Ripple Labs, as it damages the network. You can learn more about the Validator consensus process here.

The integrity of Ripple is based on the assumption that nodes do not collude.
The problem with this is that as they say in all disclaimers: "past performance is no guarantee for future returns."

POW secured convergence of the ledger in Bitcoin is in contrast an objective proof of the will of the economic majority.

[freequant]

At this point in the discussion, can we safely say that "The difference between Ripple and Bitcoin" is ... Bitcoin?

Ripple advocates are inclusive. They are advocates of Ripple, Bitcoin, and currency choice in general.

Bitcoin advocates, who are not also Ripple advocates, are divisive. They see Bitcoin and Ripple as competing systems.

Not true. Ripple isn't a working system yet. Ripple is competing with colored coin, mastercoin, and all the altcoins. Ripple is an untested idea at this point

Sometimes it's really difficult to decide if you are trolling or just really behind on your research.
Ripple is live with the full features set since almost 2 years, and trading actively since it launched, with growing volumes and a growing userbase, and gateways on every continents and all major economies. So much for the "untested" idea... Meanwhile Colored coins, Mastercoin and should I add NXT and Ethereum are yet to produce working code to handle distributed exchange.

I am open minded, but can't I wait until there is published sourcecode for the clients and gateways before getting behind it? Let's see some gold trading advertised for Ripple.

All the source code of both the official client, the rippled server and a handful of utilities like graph pages, CMS plugins, and APIs are open-source.

[cbeast]

So I went to Ripple.com to open my wallet. It seems the account is gone. The un/pw are not recognized and they were written down. The PW was very strong. No major deal. I didn't have much on there. Personally, I would rather have the gateways and wallets physically local so they fall under local jurisdiction since they are not transparent.

Cbeast,

Why ship gold when you can store it for free and liquidate into anything on ripple, anytime anywhere?
As soon as there are other gold gateways in other locations you can effectively move it without moving it...

Who independently audits your service that it matches records at your partner's vaults? I'm not saying your record keeping could be wrong, but your partner's may dispute your records and there would need to be independent verification. I have not found that assurance on your website.
Also on your ToS
"Right To Redeem (RTR): means the redeemable electronic representation of an amount of currency or the troy ounce weight of an investment grade precious metal on the Ripple network." (emphasis mine)
"All services are provided without warranty of any kind, either express or implied."

I'm not questioning your integrity. It's just that the customer has little recourse in a dispute.

To answer your question, if it isn't physical gold in your hand, then it's an investment derivative, not actual gold, marketing notwithstanding. Still, I commend you on taking part of a grand experiment.

[freequant]

So I went to Ripple.com to open my wallet. It seems the account is gone. The un/pw are not recognized and they were written down. The PW was very strong. No major deal. I didn't have much on there. Personally, I would rather have the gateways and wallets physically local so they fall under local jurisdiction since they are not transparent.

Once an account has been created in the ledger (which happens once you have deposited the reserve amount), it cannot be deleted. Ever. So I'm sure there is some good explanations to what happened to you. I don't think this thread is the right place to help you with creating an account, but if you share your experience in the New Users section of Ripple forum, we can help you get started and activate your account.

Cbeast,

Why ship gold when you can store it for free and liquidate into anything on ripple, anytime anywhere?
As soon as there are other gold gateways in other locations you can effectively move it without moving it...

Who independently audits your service that it matches records at your partner's vaults? I'm not saying your record keeping could be wrong, but your partner's may dispute your records and there would need to be independent verification. I have not found that assurance on your website.
Also on your ToS
"Right To Redeem (RTR): means the redeemable electronic representation of an amount of currency or the troy ounce weight of an investment grade precious metal on the Ripple network." (emphasis mine)
"All services are provided without warranty of any kind, either express or implied."

I'm not questioning your integrity. It's just that the customer has little recourse in a dispute.

To answer your question, if it isn't physical gold in your hand, then it's an investment derivative, not actual gold, marketing notwithstanding. Still, I commend you on taking part of a grand experiment.

Again, I think that discussion would be more on-topic on the Ripple forum.

[freequant]

Everything is in the ledger, just like the blockchain.

I've already went through this with another Ripple supporter here:

Integrity of the total XRP count is equivalent to the integrity of the ledger, like the blockchain. Validation is performed by few parties today, and that is legit ongoing grounds for criticism. As the network grows, that will become less of a concern. Harming the integrity of the ledger is not in the interest of current Validators or Ripple Labs, as it damages the network. You can learn more about the Validator consensus process here.

The integrity of Ripple is based on the assumption that nodes do not collude.
The problem with this is that as they say in all disclaimers: "past performance is no guarantee for future returns."

True, that's why it is very important to choose well the nodes in your UNL.
If you add official public validators run by academic institutions in different countries, non-profits, government bodies of non-allied nations such as China, Russia, India, Pakistan, Iran and USA, competing private companies of different countries, libertarian groups, activist groups like EFF and Wikileaks, hacker groups, and competing political parties, and ... they manage to collude in such a way that more than 50% of them agree on the same lie knowing that their fellony is going to become history in the next 10s... the whole world is in an unspeakable shit that far exceeds immediate concerns about Ripple's integrity...

POW secured convergence of the ledger in Bitcoin is in contrast an objective proof of the will of the economic majority.

POW is weak because economic interest leads to the pooling of computer power between the hands of a few major players like mining pools and ASIC makers in the case of Bitcoin. Instead of having reputable organization of all nations and all walks of life puting their reputation at stake to collude, all you need in Bitcoin is to have a handful of Chinese ASIC makers and mining pools colluding.