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Author Topic: The Perfect Storm of Bitcoin Birth  (Read 278 times)
Pepe Lapiu
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February 15, 2019, 10:01:56 PM
Last edit: February 16, 2019, 06:05:02 AM by Pepe Lapiu
Merited by vapourminer (1), figmentofmyass (1)
 #1

The Perfect Storm of Bitcoin Birth

Guys, in my other thread it became overwhelmingly obvious that the vast majority of people on this forum don't understand the true value of Bitcoin. So I would like to offer you a bit of background for the birth of Bitcoin.

Staring around 2000, the government started promoting Freddy Mac and Fanny May along with ridiculously low interest rates near zero. These factors along with various other government meddling invited Wall Street and the banks to make riskier and riskier mortgages for people who clearly would barely qualify for a car loan, much less a home loan.  

And so in 2008, the mortgage bubble busted. Make no mistakes about it, that was all created by the corrupt collusion between government and Wall Street/banks.

And what was the government's response to the banks acting wrecklessly? - Bail them out, a.k.a. hand out free money to the misbehaving banks, and get the tax payers to foot the bill.

Right after the 2008 bubble busted and while the media was bussy blaming the people who dared want a home for their family instead of appropriately blaming the government and the wreckless banks, Bitcoin was born - the perfect storm. Bitcoin could not have picked a better time to come to life.

The government and Wall Street had manipulated the worthless fiat paper at the great cost of the population. And Bitcoin, money that can not be created out of thin air, money that can not be inflated and deflated by printing more of it, was born.

Bitcoin is the perfect money because it can't be regulated by government. Yet the vast majority of the members here not only welcome government regulation of Bitcoin, they encourage it.

With strict government regulations, the USD lost 98% of it's value over the last century. It's blatantly obvious that government regulations are not capable of protecting the value of a currency. So please, explain to my why you think that government regulation of Bitcoin is somehow going to promote it and benefit it.

Bitcoin was created as a tool against government and against corrupt banks and Wall Street.

Anyone can buy Bitcoin, anyone with a cell phone anywhere in the world can buy Bitcoin. So I can't prevent government and Wall Street from buying or selling as much Bitcoin as they want. But you have to understand here. Wall Street has no intention of pumping any huge amounts of money into Bitcoin. All that Wall Street wants to do is create Bitcoin derivatives like futures contracts, Bitcoin certificates, and countless other means of selling worthless paper Bitcoin.

But you must be made to understand Wall Street, banks, and government involvement will not benefit Bitcoin.

Bitcoin was born practical worthless. And it climbed to an amazing 4000$ at the time of writing this. We did it all without regulations and without Wall Street derivatives. Bitcoin can keep growing. But not because of Wall Street, but in spite of Wall Street.

Bitcoin is the ultimate financial freedom.  You can own it without it getting taxed. You can send it to anyone you want anywhere in the world without the bank fees and without government looking over your shoulder. Please guys, stop asking for more regulations and for more Wall Street corrupt intervention.

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February 15, 2019, 11:59:29 PM
 #2

Guys, in my other thread it became overwhelmingly obvious that the vast majority of people on this forum don't understand the true value of Bitcoin.

Wow...that's a bold f*cking statement.



Ok, so you state a lot of the obvious beginner stuff here. My only question, who from this community is asking for more regulation? No one here is asking for more regulation. Some of us are saying "regulation is OK" when promoted/required by governments. Those are two very different statements. We should absolutely fight regulation, we should realize that if bitcoin and cryptocurrency are to succeed they will have to coexist with the existing rule of law. As such, it would be OK for us to concede some regulation - like tax obligations - to allow governments to accept that cryptocurrency isn't bad, but is going to make payments and transactions and currency a much more equitable part of the every day life of all citizens.

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February 16, 2019, 02:02:42 AM
Last edit: February 16, 2019, 05:40:40 AM by Pepe Lapiu
 #3

Wow...that's a bold f*cking statement.

What's so f*cking bold about it?

Quote
My only question, who from this community is asking for more regulation? No one here is asking for more regulation.

You need to read my other thread.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5108256.0
A great many guys on there think Bitcoin will sky rocket with more regulation and more Wall Street involvement.


Quote
Some of us are saying "regulation is OK" when promoted/required by governments.

Dude, government always promotes and requires more regulation. If it moves, they tax it, if it keeps moving, they regulate it, and if it stops moving, they subsidize it. You are never going to find something the government thinks should be left alone.

Can you name a single aspect of your life governmemt thinks they should leave you alone to it?

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February 16, 2019, 05:20:49 AM
 #4

Please newbies, come here and be enlightened if you are so damn lazy to dig other threads here which is more like this.

It is true and it had been discussed here a lot specially when the ETF passing was started.
Some are already scared now that they might lose their bitcoin and it becomes dust and that is why they want to hand it over to the government.

But please bear in mind, most of them are just newbies and those who want out. They are not real supporters of the true technology bitcoin have but just profits.

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February 16, 2019, 01:40:31 PM
 #5

The regulations and the intervention are different things. Regulations could be very helpful because we also want to do legal things and do not want government to ban bitcoin. Banning bitcoin is also a regulation and allowing people to do whatever they want is also regulation, there is a huge huge difference between the two. So, when people say they want regulations they do not mean intervention to bitcoin at a high order, they just mean they want government to let them use bitcoin and not ban it.

When governments have NO regulations you do not know if it will be banned or supported, however when there are regulations at least you know what you can do without going on the wrong side. It means if there are regulations and rules are set then more people will get into bitcoin which will increase the price.

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February 16, 2019, 02:21:08 PM
 #6

The regulations and the intervention are different things. Regulations could be very helpful because we also want to do legal things and do not want government to ban bitcoin. Banning bitcoin is also a regulation and allowing people to do whatever they want is also regulation, there is a huge huge difference between the two. So, when people say they want regulations they do not mean intervention to bitcoin at a high order, they just mean they want government to let them use bitcoin and not ban it.

When governments have NO regulations you do not know if it will be banned or supported, however when there are regulations at least you know what you can do without going on the wrong side. It means if there are regulations and rules are set then more people will get into bitcoin which will increase the price.
You seem to have this weird idea that things need to be regulated to be legal. And that if it's not regulated, it could become illegal. Those are both fallacies you use to promote statism.

 
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February 16, 2019, 02:30:59 PM
 #7

When governments have NO regulations you do not know if it will be banned or supported, however when there are regulations at least you know what you can do without going on the wrong side. It means if there are regulations and rules are set then more people will get into bitcoin which will increase the price.

From a legal perspective, it's always better for businesses to know what the rules are, but there is no point in waiting for governments to catch up on what's happening within the crypto world. You have to take that risk, because there is plenty to gain here when you're the first. Binance for example didn't give a shit about regulations, and look where they are right now.

Coinbase because of how strict it is has to deal with so many limitations, that even their closest fiat competitors (e.g. Bitstamp, Kraken) are able to catch up as time goes by, and some times even surpass Coinbase's volumes.

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February 16, 2019, 02:43:09 PM
 #8

My only argument is that bitcoin should start to evolved as well. It's no longer treated like a currency without the middleman. It's not being sought as store of value or investment platform. Specially when the price goes from $.1 - $100.

That's why regulations comes in. Government became very hostile because of the so-called negative impact if can bring to their society.

I think we need some negotiations in-between so that we can move forward, in my opinion.

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February 16, 2019, 09:20:30 PM
 #9

The birth of bitcoin was out of necessity, giving away our tax money to bail out the bankers was the last straw. There is going to be new world economy so i'm going to stock up with as many bitcoins as i can afford

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February 16, 2019, 10:45:32 PM
 #10

My only argument is that bitcoin should start to evolved as well. It's no longer treated like a currency without the middleman. It's not being sought as store of value or investment platform. Specially when the price goes from $.1 - $100.

That's why regulations comes in. Government became very hostile because of the so-called negative impact if can bring to their society.

I think we need some negotiations in-between so that we can move forward, in my opinion.
I could not understand how the deal would be, because it is not possible to change the bitcoin. We must just conclude by accepting it as it is and by applying some changes to the exchanges.
Coming to this situation is a product of greed and while there is this greed, I can not imagine that how it will be possible to accept.

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February 16, 2019, 10:55:42 PM
 #11

My only argument is that bitcoin should start to evolved as well. It's no longer treated like a currency without the middleman. It's not being sought as store of value or investment platform. Specially when the price goes from $.1 - $100.

That's why regulations comes in. Government became very hostile because of the so-called negative impact if can bring to their society.

I think we need some negotiations in-between so that we can move forward, in my opinion.
I could not understand how the deal would be, because it is not possible to change the bitcoin. We must just conclude by accepting it as it is and by applying some changes to the exchanges.
Coming to this situation is a product of greed and while there is this greed, I can not imagine that how it will be possible to accept.

The fact that bitcoin is a cryptocurrency, it doesn't change but the way btc is used have been changed already. Bitcoin doesn't need evolution, it must stays to its characteristics since birth of it. According to mrdeposit, if the greed applied to the way we used btc, it's because of our way and it's not the fault of the bitcoin. That's why they're saying "bitcoin is unique on it's own way".



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Pepe Lapiu
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February 17, 2019, 01:49:34 AM
 #12

The birth of bitcoin was out of necessity, giving away our tax money to bail out the bankers was the last straw. There is going to be new world economy so i'm going to stock up with as many bitcoins as i can afford
I could not agree more. However from reading this thread as an example, it's very clear that government loving and banksters loving statists are invading the bitcoin community. And it will only get worst over time.

The sad part is that they all think that regulations and Wall Street will make Bitcoin price shoot up. You and I know very well that's not true. In fact government and Wall Street can only make things worst for Bitcoin through fractional reserve banking, rehypotecation, and a myriad ways to create Bitcoin derivatives which will all be detrimental to Bitcoin.

Point is, the statists are gradually poisoning the community. And it will get worst. So much so that I fear if the Fed ever comes up with a FedCoin, they will eat it all up and demand more.

So it's going to be a bloody battle for you and me. I think and I hope that Bitcoin will grow to destroy the corrupt government and banking system. But it won't be a fast thing. It will be very gradual. Dare I suggest a few generations, perhaps?
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February 17, 2019, 05:49:56 AM
 #13

The birth of bitcoin was out of necessity, giving away our tax money to bail out the bankers was the last straw. There is going to be new world economy so i'm going to stock up with as many bitcoins as i can afford
I think and I hope that Bitcoin will grow to destroy the corrupt government and banking system. But it won't be a fast thing. It will be very gradual. Dare I suggest a few generations, perhaps?
Bitcoin will grow soon, and you know what, bitcoin doesn't need government to approve and will use by the people. As long as people can accept the change of the new era, the government will follow although they have the power to block or ban bitcoin in their country. But if they do this, they will face the people's power who wants a change. Besides that, if the government cannot accept a new change, then I am sure that the country will never grow to a better country and they still have a corrupt government and banking system.

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February 17, 2019, 06:31:54 AM
 #14

we see the bitcoin storm, because it only focuses on 2017, and I don't think this is fair. From the beginning of the creation of Bitcoin until now, the increase in BTC, in my opinion has been fantastic, and certainly will continue to grow
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February 17, 2019, 08:12:48 AM
 #15

Bitcoin will grow soon

The growth of Bitcoin depends on how many people adopt it in the future and how many people walk away from it in the future . And those desicions will be made based on events which have yet to happen. If you have a crystal ball that can read the mind of every person with a cell phone in the world, and a time machine that can predict every single future event, you can predict how fast Bitcoin will grow.

I reject all price predictions as nothing more than crystal ball guesses. Take all tge fancy analysts and their pointless charts and Chuck them out of your mind. They are utterly useless.

I don't think the world us ready for Bitcoin. But that's cool because I don't think Bitcoin is ready for he world either.
Simply put, Bitcoin doesn't scale. LN and  Segwit greatly increased the scaling. And block size will likely increase in the future. Maybe even block frequency too?

But in spite of all this,  it still doesn't scale for mass adoption...yet. If I had a switch that suddenly converted the entire world currencies to Bitcoin, I wouldn't flip it. The world is not ready.

Quote
and you know what, bitcoin doesn't need government to approve and will use by the people.

Amen to that! But the problem is that you and I are surrender by statists. People who are unable to conceive anything can happen without government saying so. And I also sense that most of them are fooled by the idea that if governments and Wall Street come in, they will make more return on their coin. They are wrong on so many levels, but that's what they believe.

Quote
As long as people can accept the change of the new era, the government will follow although they have the power to block or ban bitcoin in their country. But if they do this, they will face the people's power who wants a change. Besides that, if the government cannot accept a new change, then I am sure that the country will never grow to a better country and they still have a corrupt government and banking system.

Gotta love a man who thinks the state should follow the people, not the other way around. We need more people like you in this world.
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February 17, 2019, 02:00:22 PM
 #16

Bitcoin will grow soon

The growth of Bitcoin depends on how many people adopt it in the future and how many people walk away from it in the future . And those desicions will be made based on events which have yet to happen. If you have a crystal ball that can read the mind of every person with a cell phone in the world, and a time machine that can predict every single future event, you can predict how fast Bitcoin will grow.

I reject all price predictions as nothing more than crystal ball guesses. Take all tge fancy analysts and their pointless charts and Chuck them out of your mind. They are utterly useless.

I don't think the world us ready for Bitcoin. But that's cool because I don't think Bitcoin is ready for he world either.
Simply put, Bitcoin doesn't scale. LN and  Segwit greatly increased the scaling. And block size will likely increase in the future. Maybe even block frequency too?

But in spite of all this,  it still doesn't scale for mass adoption...yet. If I had a switch that suddenly converted the entire world currencies to Bitcoin, I wouldn't flip it. The world is not ready.

Quote
and you know what, bitcoin doesn't need government to approve and will use by the people.

Amen to that! But the problem is that you and I are surrender by statists. People who are unable to conceive anything can happen without government saying so. And I also sense that most of them are fooled by the idea that if governments and Wall Street come in, they will make more return on their coin. They are wrong on so many levels, but that's what they believe.

Quote
As long as people can accept the change of the new era, the government will follow although they have the power to block or ban bitcoin in their country. But if they do this, they will face the people's power who wants a change. Besides that, if the government cannot accept a new change, then I am sure that the country will never grow to a better country and they still have a corrupt government and banking system.

Gotta love a man who thinks the state should follow the people, not the other way around. We need more people like you in this world.

I am sure many people will adopt it in the future because I think we will face a new era which the technologies will be something familiar with our life. And maybe the technologies itself will be part of our life like what we see in the Star Trek movie and else. And in that time, physical money will not use anymore because the resources to make physical money will be limit.

I don't reject all predictions that happen around us, but I accepted as my information to make my own analysis so I can do something and decide what I will do regarding with the situation.

I think we only need to let the public decide to use bitcoin or not and if they think that bitcoin will give many benefits, then they will join in the bitcoin world. They believe for something they know from what they read and not by their research, and most people thought like that, and then they make a conclusion base on what is happening now.

Right now, people are not yet ready for bitcoin or cryptocurrency, but one day, they will come to bitcoin and use bitcoin. The time for mass adoption will come, we don't have to wait for that time because when it's happening, we will not realize and we only know that many people using bitcoin and they are very excited when they use bitcoin.

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February 19, 2019, 05:13:07 PM
 #17

Bitcoin will grow soon

The growth of Bitcoin depends on how many people adopt it in the future and how many people walk away from it in the future . And those desicions will be made based on events which have yet to happen. If you have a crystal ball that can read the mind of every person with a cell phone in the world, and a time machine that can predict every single future event, you can predict how fast Bitcoin will grow.

it is not a prediction or future telling. it is an observation based on current ongoing events and all the history that bitcoin had. you don't need a crystal ball to know it either you just have to take a good look around to see the growth is happening all around you while more people all around the world start dumping their fiat to get bitcoin in return.

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February 20, 2019, 03:14:23 AM
 #18

Quote from: Pepe Lapiu link=topic=5110470.msg49760983#msg49760983

Bitcoin is the ultimate financial freedom.  You can own it without it getting taxed. You can send it to anyone you want anywhere in the world without the bank fees and without government looking over your shoulder. Please guys, stop asking for more regulations and for more Wall Street corrupt intervention.


The main point of Bitcoin is that it doesn't matter what anyone is or isn't asking about it. Governments will do what governments do, and that is to regulate, and to create derivative tricks such as Futures in order to profit from anything that attracts enough volume for them to bother, but this is all irrelevant for Bitcoin as it works as intended regardless of what government jurisdictions have to say about it, the blockchain keeps churning out blocks every 10 minutes incessantly, and this fact is undervalued.

The manipulation of easy money against hard money (Bitcoin, gold) doesn't last forever. For how long can they keep pushing the price down? we don't know, but such manipulation doesn't last forever. The demand for Bitcoin isn't going to magically stop, and the amount of Bitcoin is strictly limited. There's enough Bitcoin for everyone, it's just a function of price.
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February 20, 2019, 04:38:00 AM
 #19

Bitcoin will grow soon

The growth of Bitcoin depends on how many people adopt it in the future and how many people walk away from it in the future . And those desicions will be made based on events which have yet to happen. If you have a crystal ball that can read the mind of every person with a cell phone in the world, and a time machine that can predict every single future event, you can predict how fast Bitcoin will grow.

it is not a prediction or future telling. it is an observation based on current ongoing events and all the history that bitcoin had. you don't need a crystal ball to know it either you just have to take a good look around to see the growth is happening all around you while more people all around the world start dumping their fiat to get bitcoin in return.
indeed it will not take place immediately. but with us observing around us that more and more are using digital payments, of course we can draw the conclusion that later bitcoin will become an important role in our lives. so by collecting assets at this time, of course there is a good chance for us later

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February 20, 2019, 07:11:18 AM
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The manipulation of easy money against hard money (Bitcoin, gold) doesn't last forever. For how long can they keep pushing the price down? we don't know, but such manipulation doesn't last forever. The demand for Bitcoin isn't going to magically stop, and the amount of Bitcoin is strictly limited. There's enough Bitcoin for everyone, it's just a function of price.
Manipulation is all relative and is something that largely only happens between people's ears. Bitcoin isn't being manipulated down, it's just the speculative nature of this market doing it.

If there was manipulation, then it happens to the up side as well, so if the mad bull run that happened in 2017 was manipulation, we haven't seen anyone complain about that, because people then made money, not lose it.

What I noticed is that while a lot people blindly assume that this market is heavily rigged, no one can actually provide the evidence to back up their claims. Overall, people believe what they want to believe....

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