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Author Topic: Bitcoin is a scam that thrives on language manipulation  (Read 550 times)
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March 07, 2019, 12:53:48 PM
Last edit: March 13, 2019, 08:26:12 AM by fxsurfer
 #1

If we start from a simple and undeniable fact that money cannot appear by just adding numerical entries  into a database(DB), then it is obvious that so called Block Reward, which is just an algorithmically added numerical entry (50 initially) into a DB called blockchain, is NOT the creation of money. In other words, adding entries into the DB (blockchain) is just a database management process that belongs to the field of informatics and NOT money creation process that belongs to the field of economy.

Throughout all human history money has always been - either commodity or certificate that grants specific rights. Current (FIAT) money, like dollars, are such certificates. Namely, dollars are put into circulation when banks grant loans to borrowers - who then use these dollars to purchase goods and services from individuals - who then become dollar holders. But, since borrowers are obligated to make their loan payments they needed dollars back. How will they get them? Well, they obviously must produce some goods or services so that dollar holders can buy them and in that way fund salaries or revenue of borrowers.  With salaries and revenue borrowers will get dollars for their loan payments while dollar holders will get goods and services. If borrowers fail to provide goods and services, and thus default on their loan payments, the banks will activate collaterals and instead of goods and services, sell borrowers land, cars, houses... to dollar holders. Thus, in a nutshell, FIAT money, either paper or digital, is debt certificate that grants its holder the RIGHT to goods, services or collateral of borrowers.

As we can see, MONEY is either commodity or certificate that grants specific rights. Even casino chips are form of money as they grant specific rights, i.e. - casinos are legally obligated to cash chips they issued. On the other hand, when numbers are added next to someone's virtual address in a DB called blockchain, NOBODY is legally obligated to cash these numbers or to exchange them for goods or services, which means that no right is granted by bitcoin. Also, bitcoin is not a commodity. That's why bitcoin is NOT money. Bitcoin is just a fancy name for a DB entry.

But what people did is something strange and bizarre. Namely, they took (stole) the definition of "payment" from the field of economy, and copy/pasted that definition over the text that defines informatic concept of adding entries into a DB. In that way the illusion was created that by adding numerical values into the blockchain one is actually paying. But in reality, no payment is occurring as neither goods/services nor granted rights (certificates) are transferred from one person to another. In other words, the economic definition of "payment" is this: a transfer of goods(commodity), services or rights from one person to another, while in the case of bitcoin, NOTHING is transferred, but only numerical entries are added into the DB.

So, the whole bitcoin system is just a database management system, while bitcoin is just a DB enty. And calling a DB management system a payment system, and a DB entry a money is nothing but a language manipulation. That is why bitcoin is a scam that thrives on language manipulation. In this scam, a numerical mark is added into the DB when uneducated, naive, or greedy individuals give their valuable possessions to unknown persons for free.
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March 07, 2019, 01:16:06 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #2

If we start from a simple and undeniable fact that SOMETHING cannot appear or despair by changing entries in a database, then it is obvious that so called Block Reward, which is just an algorithmic change of entry in a database(blockchain) — from 0 to 50 initially, is actually the creation of NOTHING or nothingness. But people did something strange — they gave a fancy name to this nothingness — Bitcoin. So, a mere change of entry in a database is given a name, which is in itself a bizarre thing to do. But anyhow, here is where the language manipulation kicks in. Changing entries is obviously just a database management and it belongs to the field of informatics. But what people did is they took the definition of "payment" - which belongs to the field of economy, and they copy/pasted that definition next to the phrase — "change of entry in a database". This created the illusion that when you change entry in a database(blockchain) you are actually transferring SOMETHING to another person, i.e. that you are paying. But payment is transfer of SOMETHING (rights, services or goods) from one person to another.

For. e.g. fiat money is created when a bank grants a loan i.e. SOMETHING, which is why paying someone with fiat money is actually the transfer of rights derived from bank loans. That is why fiat money fits the definition of payment — SOMETHING (rights recorded in the banking system) are transferred from one person to another.

But by changing blockchain value from 1 to 3 for e.g., obviously NOTHING has been transferred since values in that database are neither representations of rights nor goods or services. So, changing numbers in a blockchain has nothing to do with payment or economy which renders bitcoin a scam that thrives on language manipulation.

This is not accurate, If there is a consensus between a group of people that X is worth Y - then that thing is viewed as valuable. Usually due to some sort of utility or feature that it possesses.

Here you see the birth of programmable money, not issued by a state but rather founded in cryptography, accountability is achieved via a transparently distributed ledger.

You are arguing from an angle based on what looks like clear bias, there are several accounts in history where people agreed upon something having X value and traded it as such, this is what happened here. People see the utility this thing has and agreed that the market value is X.

It is just social economics and math + some good utility at play.

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March 07, 2019, 01:21:03 PM
Merited by Mr.Ease (1)
 #3


For. e.g. fiat money is created when a bank grants a loan i.e. SOMETHING, which is why paying someone with fiat money is actually the transfer of rights derived from bank loans. That is why fiat money fits the definition of payment — SOMETHING (rights recorded in the banking system) are transferred from one person to another.

This is retarded.

Bitcoin can do everything what FIAT money does, except the inflation which is a feature.

the FED can create infinite amounts of Dollars but there will be only 21 million bitcoins. No central bank has the power to create more coins.




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March 07, 2019, 01:22:13 PM
Last edit: March 07, 2019, 01:34:25 PM by fxsurfer
 #4

If we start from a simple and undeniable fact that SOMETHING cannot appear or despair by changing entries in a database, then it is obvious that so called Block Reward, which is just an algorithmic change of entry in a database(blockchain) — from 0 to 50 initially, is actually the creation of NOTHING or nothingness. But people did something strange — they gave a fancy name to this nothingness — Bitcoin. So, a mere change of entry in a database is given a name, which is in itself a bizarre thing to do. But anyhow, here is where the language manipulation kicks in. Changing entries is obviously just a database management and it belongs to the field of informatics. But what people did is they took the definition of "payment" - which belongs to the field of economy, and they copy/pasted that definition next to the phrase — "change of entry in a database". This created the illusion that when you change entry in a database(blockchain) you are actually transferring SOMETHING to another person, i.e. that you are paying. But payment is transfer of SOMETHING (rights, services or goods) from one person to another.

For. e.g. fiat money is created when a bank grants a loan i.e. SOMETHING, which is why paying someone with fiat money is actually the transfer of rights derived from bank loans. That is why fiat money fits the definition of payment — SOMETHING (rights recorded in the banking system) are transferred from one person to another.

But by changing blockchain value from 1 to 3 for e.g., obviously NOTHING has been transferred since values in that database are neither representations of rights nor goods or services. So, changing numbers in a blockchain has nothing to do with payment or economy which renders bitcoin a scam that thrives on language manipulation.

This is not accurate, payment is not the transfer of just services rights or goods, it can also be money if there is a consensus between a group of people that X is worth Y - then that thing is viewed as valuable. Usually due to some sort of utility or feature that it possesses.

Here you see the birth of programmable money, not issued by a state but rather founded in cryptography, accountability is achieved via a transparently distributed ledger.

You are arguing from an angle based on what looks like clear bias, there are several accounts in history where people agreed upon something having X value and traded it as such, this is what happened here. People see the utility this thing has and agreed that the market value is X.

It is just social economics and math + some good utility at play.
Well, the point is that payment is transfer of SOMETHING. Throughout all human history money has always been the ownership of either commodity, gold certificates or certificates of borrowers' debt(fiat money). And all these items are not nothing but something. Thus, Bitcoin is not money - money cannot be created by changing entry in a database.
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March 07, 2019, 01:33:01 PM
 #5


For. e.g. fiat money is created when a bank grants a loan i.e. SOMETHING, which is why paying someone with fiat money is actually the transfer of rights derived from bank loans. That is why fiat money fits the definition of payment — SOMETHING (rights recorded in the banking system) are transferred from one person to another.

This is retarded.

Bitcoin can do everything what FIAT money does, except the inflation which is a feature.

the FED can create infinite amounts of Dollars but there will be only 21 million bitcoins. No central bank has the power to create more coins.
Bitcoin is just a fancy name for changed entry in a database. Fiat money is the name for issued loans. Inflation is an economic term that refers to an environment of generally rising prices of goods and services. So, Bitcoin has NOTHING to do with FIAT money or inflation.
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March 07, 2019, 01:34:13 PM
 #6

Bitcoin is cryptographic alternative of fiat and current payment systems, to make everything clear I mean that Bitcoin/Monero is mostly used as a payment method which is fast, cheap and anonymous compared to others.
Just tell me, when you pay with debit card, what happens here? It's just a transfer of numbers from one place to another, absolutely same happens on bitcoin too and it's not language manipulation.
Also fiat money isn't created when bank grants a loan, money is just moving and if someone is rich it's because you are poor and it will be like this always.

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March 07, 2019, 01:37:35 PM
 #7

If that's the case then fiat too is nothingness, a central authority creates the physical currency with backing of gold or other assets. When the same is transfered digitally, what gets transferred is just a value which is nothing. The cash will be in the reserve, so we're giving value to nothing.

Fiat is loan, and loan is not nothing.
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March 07, 2019, 01:40:00 PM
 #8

For. e.g. fiat money is created when a bank grants a loan i.e. SOMETHING, which is why paying someone with fiat money is actually the transfer of rights derived from bank loans. That is why fiat money fits the definition of payment — SOMETHING (rights recorded in the banking system) are transferred from one person to another.
Hmm
How do you find the notes in the first place? Isn't it you just print when you want? Have you backed it by anything?

It's like if I have political shelter and have a print machine which is able to print money and the papers and the holograms and the designs then I can print as many notes as I want. You call it currency system?

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March 07, 2019, 01:45:23 PM
 #9

If we start from a simple and undeniable fact that SOMETHING cannot appear or despair by changing entries in a database, then it is obvious that so called Block Reward, which is just an algorithmic change of entry in a database(blockchain) — from 0 to 50 initially, is actually the creation of NOTHING or nothingness. But people did something strange — they gave a fancy name to this nothingness — Bitcoin. So, a mere change of entry in a database is given a name, which is in itself a bizarre thing to do. But anyhow, here is where the language manipulation kicks in. Changing entries is obviously just a database management and it belongs to the field of informatics. But what people did is they took the definition of "payment" - which belongs to the field of economy, and they copy/pasted that definition next to the phrase — "change of entry in a database". This created the illusion that when you change entry in a database(blockchain) you are actually transferring SOMETHING to another person, i.e. that you are paying. But payment is transfer of SOMETHING (rights, services or goods) from one person to another.

For. e.g. fiat money is created when a bank grants a loan i.e. SOMETHING, which is why paying someone with fiat money is actually the transfer of rights derived from bank loans. That is why fiat money fits the definition of payment — SOMETHING (rights recorded in the banking system) are transferred from one person to another.

But by changing blockchain value from 1 to 3 for e.g., obviously NOTHING has been transferred since values in that database are neither representations of rights nor goods or services. So, changing numbers in a blockchain has nothing to do with payment or economy which renders bitcoin a scam that thrives on language manipulation.

This is not accurate, payment is not the transfer of just services rights or goods, it can also be money if there is a consensus between a group of people that X is worth Y - then that thing is viewed as valuable. Usually due to some sort of utility or feature that it possesses.

Here you see the birth of programmable money, not issued by a state but rather founded in cryptography, accountability is achieved via a transparently distributed ledger.

You are arguing from an angle based on what looks like clear bias, there are several accounts in history where people agreed upon something having X value and traded it as such, this is what happened here. People see the utility this thing has and agreed that the market value is X.

It is just social economics and math + some good utility at play.
Well, the point is that payment is transfer of SOMETHING. Throughout all human history money has always been the ownership of either commodity, gold certificates or certificates of borrowers' debt(fiat money). And all these items are not nothing but something. Thus, Bitcoin is not money - money cannot be created by changing entry in a database.

This is by definition what fractional reserve banking is doing, changing entries in a database and creating 10 times the money they actually have on hand.

There is little point in continuing this discussion when all you desire to do is fight your angered point of view, rather than look at it objectively.

Helping to create the world's first loving economy, not something based on fear or greed. Principles of love, abundance, consistency, automation, decentralisation, open source, economic multifunctionality. Scientific analysis will be uploaded to my site shortly for peer review.
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March 07, 2019, 01:55:00 PM
Merited by suchmoon (4), JayJuanGee (1), ETFbitcoin (1), xandry (1), LoyceV (1), Coolcryptovator (1)
 #10

A private key is a mathematical proof of ownership for whatever bitcoins are associated with that key. That mathematical proof is the only way to interact with those coins, nothing else can interact with it, no government, company or person can do it without those private keys. Cryptography makes it impossible.

Mathematics, are tangible parts of our universe. Numbers and notations might be abstract, since we gave them value and order, but mathematics are natural, and exist within the realm of the tangible universe.

So bitcoin is a currency based of tangible principles.
Fiat is abstract, since there is no protocol behind it. Your loans do not follow any mathematical immutable rule.

Fiat is a scam.
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March 07, 2019, 01:57:14 PM
 #11

If we start from a simple and undeniable fact that SOMETHING cannot appear or despair by changing entries in a database, then it is obvious that so called Block Reward, which is just an algorithmic change of entry in a database(blockchain) — from 0 to 50 initially, is actually the creation of NOTHING or nothingness. But people did something strange — they gave a fancy name to this nothingness — Bitcoin. So, a mere change of entry in a database is given a name, which is in itself a bizarre thing to do. But anyhow, here is where the language manipulation kicks in. Changing entries is obviously just a database management and it belongs to the field of informatics. But what people did is they took the definition of "payment" - which belongs to the field of economy, and they copy/pasted that definition next to the phrase — "change of entry in a database". This created the illusion that when you change entry in a database(blockchain) you are actually transferring SOMETHING to another person, i.e. that you are paying. But payment is transfer of SOMETHING (rights, services or goods) from one person to another.

For. e.g. fiat money is created when a bank grants a loan i.e. SOMETHING, which is why paying someone with fiat money is actually the transfer of rights derived from bank loans. That is why fiat money fits the definition of payment — SOMETHING (rights recorded in the banking system) are transferred from one person to another.

But by changing blockchain value from 1 to 3 for e.g., obviously NOTHING has been transferred since values in that database are neither representations of rights nor goods or services. So, changing numbers in a blockchain has nothing to do with payment or economy which renders bitcoin a scam that thrives on language manipulation.

This is not accurate, payment is not the transfer of just services rights or goods, it can also be money if there is a consensus between a group of people that X is worth Y - then that thing is viewed as valuable. Usually due to some sort of utility or feature that it possesses.

Here you see the birth of programmable money, not issued by a state but rather founded in cryptography, accountability is achieved via a transparently distributed ledger.

You are arguing from an angle based on what looks like clear bias, there are several accounts in history where people agreed upon something having X value and traded it as such, this is what happened here. People see the utility this thing has and agreed that the market value is X.

It is just social economics and math + some good utility at play.
Well, the point is that payment is transfer of SOMETHING. Throughout all human history money has always been the ownership of either commodity, gold certificates or certificates of borrowers' debt(fiat money). And all these items are not nothing but something. Thus, Bitcoin is not money - money cannot be created by changing entry in a database.

This is by definition what fractional reserve banking is doing, changing entries in a database and creating 10 times the money they actually have on hand.

There is little point in continuing this discussion when all you desire to do is fight your angered point of view, rather than look at it objectively.

Wrong again. What fractional reserve banking is doing is issuing, securing and repaying loans, while entries in a database are just means to evidence that process.
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March 07, 2019, 02:08:22 PM
 #12

A private key is a mathematical proof of ownership for whatever bitcoins are associated with that key. That mathematical proof is the only way to interact with those coins, nothing else can interact with it, no government, company or person can do it without those private keys. Cryptography makes it impossible.

Mathematics, are tangible parts of our universe. Numbers and notations might be abstract, since we gave them value and order, but mathematics are natural, and exist within the realm of the tangible universe.

So bitcoin is a currency based of tangible principles.
Fiat is abstract, since there is no protocol behind it. Your loans do not follow any mathematical immutable rule.

Fiat is a scam.

This is just another instance of language manipulation. "Block Reward" is just an algorithmic change of entry in a database (blockchain) — from 0 to 50 initially, and this change is called Bitcoin. This has nothing to do with
"tangible principles", but it is just a database management.

Fractional reserve banking is a banking system in which banks only hold a fraction of the money their customers deposit as reserves. This allows them to use the rest of it to make loans and thereby essentially create new money. This gives commercial banks the power to directly affect money supply. When the rest of the money they 'create' is done, how do you think this is done. Not by adjusting a centralized database?

Don't cite something incorrectly then state wrong again. This conversation is pretty tedious

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March 07, 2019, 02:17:00 PM
 #13

A private key is a mathematical proof of ownership for whatever bitcoins are associated with that key. That mathematical proof is the only way to interact with those coins, nothing else can interact with it, no government, company or person can do it without those private keys. Cryptography makes it impossible.

Mathematics, are tangible parts of our universe. Numbers and notations might be abstract, since we gave them value and order, but mathematics are natural, and exist within the realm of the tangible universe.

So bitcoin is a currency based of tangible principles.
Fiat is abstract, since there is no protocol behind it. Your loans do not follow any mathematical immutable rule.

Fiat is a scam.

This is just another instance of language manipulation. "Block Reward" is just an algorithmic change of entry in a database (blockchain) — from 0 to 50 initially, and this change is called Bitcoin. This has nothing to do with
"tangible principles", but it is just a database management.

Fractional reserve banking is a banking system in which banks only hold a fraction of the money their customers deposit as reserves. This allows them to use the rest of it to make loans and thereby essentially create new money. This gives commercial banks the power to directly affect money supply. When the rest of the money they 'create' is done, how do you think this is done. Not by adjusting a centralized database?

Don't cite something incorrectly then state wrong again. This conversation is pretty tedious
So, how that changes the OP?
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March 07, 2019, 02:18:49 PM
 #14

So no new or original thoughts, then?  Just another dull rehash of your last couple of topics with no fresh insights.  Have you ever stopped to consider that not all of us place any value in your legally enforced debt obligations?  If you value them, great.  Stick to that and leave us in peace.  We happen to believe our system is better off without those.  

If I wanted to be slaved to a corporate enitity for taking out a loan which they magicked into existence from nothing, I would do that.  But since I currently live debt free, there's no value for me in the traditional banking system.  There is only cost, inconvenience, surveillance and restrictions.  A bunch of worthless middlemen profiteering off my economic activity while offering me very little in return.  You can keep that crap.

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March 07, 2019, 02:29:30 PM
 #15

If we start from a simple and undeniable fact that SOMETHING cannot appear or despair

Yeah, despair is the only thing you got right in this whole post.
And the PoD (proof of despair) is when you create topics like those:

Quote
Bitcoin is a scam based on language manipulation
Don't Buy Bitcoin - You'll Become the Owner of Nothing[VIDEO ]
Bitcoin Is The Most Ridiculous Invention Ever Made
Why does it take so long for Bitcoin to die?
Simple and undeniable proof that Bitcoin is a scam
Don't buy bitcoin because it won't be fine
A simple proof that Bitcoin has zero value

So no new or original thoughts, then?  Just another dull rehash of your last couple of topics with no fresh insights.

Of course, there will be no original posts or arguments or whatever, the whole anti-bitcoin debate is based in his case is based on only one thing, how they are created.
Honestly, I thought this bear market that will probably reach 1.5 years would bring in some better trolls but damn, not just the price and news are lame lately, even the bears look like they had a rough winter.

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March 07, 2019, 02:34:49 PM
 #16

So no new or original thoughts, then?  Just another dull rehash of your last couple of topics with no fresh insights.  Have you ever stopped to consider that not all of us place any value in your legally enforced debt obligations?  If you value them, great.  Stick to that and leave us in peace.  We happen to believe our system is better off without those.  

If I wanted to be slaved to a corporate enitity for taking out a loan which they magicked into existence from nothing, I would do that.  But since I currently live debt free, there's no value for me in the traditional banking system.  There is only cost, inconvenience, surveillance and restrictions.  A bunch of worthless middlemen profiteering off my economic activity while offering me very little in return.  You can keep that crap.

Well, you can call fiat money(loans) crap if you like, but this won't change the fact that Bitcoin system is not a payment system but a database management system and that it has nothing to do with money and economy.
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March 07, 2019, 02:37:28 PM
 #17

This is technology and not a scam, if in the case of a transfer the sent is a value, and if you consider bitcoin to be just manipulation, then you will never be able to exchange bitcoin with fiat that you can use to meet your needs.

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March 07, 2019, 02:38:47 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #18

If we start from a simple and undeniable fact that SOMETHING cannot appear or despair by changing entries in a database, then it is obvious that so called Block Reward, which is just an algorithmic change of entry in a database(blockchain) — from 0 to 50 initially, is actually the creation of NOTHING or nothingness. But people did something strange — they gave a fancy name to this nothingness — Bitcoin. So, a mere change of entry in a database is given a name, which is in itself a bizarre thing to do. But anyhow, here is where the language manipulation kicks in. Changing entries is obviously just a database management and it belongs to the field of informatics. But what people did is they took the definition of "payment" - which belongs to the field of economy, and they copy/pasted that definition next to the phrase — "change of entry in a database". This created the illusion that when you change entry in a database(blockchain) you are actually transferring SOMETHING to another person, i.e. that you are paying. But payment is transfer of SOMETHING (rights, services or goods) from one person to another.

For. e.g. fiat money is created when a bank grants a loan i.e. SOMETHING, which is why paying someone with fiat money is actually the transfer of rights derived from bank loans. That is why fiat money fits the definition of payment — SOMETHING (rights recorded in the banking system) is transferred from one person to another.

But by changing blockchain value from 1 to 3 for e.g., obviously NOTHING has been transferred since values in that database are neither representations of rights nor goods or services. So, changing numbers in a blockchain has nothing to do with payment or economy which renders bitcoin a scam that thrives on language manipulation.

Hmm.

Bit wired question. let me clear things one by one.

First of Bitcoin, which is made up of a combination with two great quantum physics technologies which are blockchain and cryptography. Independently both have "ZERO" value. But the experiment held with both these technologies invented an amazing, revolutionary decentralized platform within the peer-to-peer network.

Now according to the specification of Bitcoin, Bitcoin has a specific amount to be generated according to a timely manner. And for making this happen it uses SHA256 algorithm to encrypt data within the block, while processing transaction verification and data storing require a certain amount of power which can be generated by using electricity and other types of equipment.

Now day by day this power is increasing and affecting the production of Bitcoin, which ultimately impact on the price of BTC against fiat. Halving is also the most important factor can also impact on price according to demand and supply.

Considering all parameters and technologies, Bitcoin is far more than Fiat. Basically, Bitcoin can be considered as a commodity, as it's limited.

Till the day we, human are still testing possibilities. But Bitcoin has proved its existence already. And Proof of Existence is a great proof for the upcoming future, just matter is acceptance.

 
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March 07, 2019, 02:39:02 PM
 #19

Well, you can call fiat money(loans) crap if you like, but this won't change the fact that Bitcoin system is not a payment system but a database management system and that it has nothing to do with money and economy.

Except that it clearly is an economy.  It's our economy and we couldn't care less if it doesn't meet your "standards" to qualify as an economy.  You are of no consequence to us.

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March 07, 2019, 02:42:02 PM
 #20

This is technology and not a scam, if in the case of a transfer the sent is a value, and if you consider bitcoin to be just manipulation, then you will never be able to exchange bitcoin with fiat that you can use to meet your needs.

Calling a database management system a payment system and a database entry a money is a scam by definition.
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