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Author Topic: ★ Benefit of Merit Competition on Signature Campaign ★  (Read 618 times)
TalkStar
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March 09, 2019, 06:51:39 PM
Last edit: March 09, 2019, 07:18:28 PM by TalkStar
 #1

Hello Everyone,

Welcome to my thread. Today I am going to share a matter which looks very effective on my eyes for our community. It relates with signature campaign. I had applied on bustadice signature campaign though I had not accepted but I discover something interesting from the activities of campaign manager yahoo62278 . As a applicants I read their main thread and find that campaign manager have put additional stake for few participants  who will make most constructive post.

After visiting the spread sheet I discover the process of choosing most constructive users. Campaign manager select them based on their earn merit per week. As a new user of bitcointalk I see this kinda merit competition on a signature campaign for the first time. I am not sure that any other manager have previously done this kind of competition or not.

Honestly this matter impressed me a lot. I believe merit competition increase the quality of users post which can minimize spam on our forum. I think if other managers follow this strategy by putting bonus stake for constructive users then it will encourage community users to make quality posts. I am not only suggesting this for BTC signature but also for other signature campaign. As far as I know stake distribution fully depend on managers hand and it will not be difficult for them to put few bonus stake for those users. In one side its creating competition among participants to make quality post for achieving bonus. On the other hand forum will get quality posts, unique ideas and obviously going to the next level.

Special Note: I am not sure that my thread is appropriate for this section or not. If not please feel free to suggest.

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gentlemand
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March 09, 2019, 07:53:11 PM
Merited by The Pharmacist (2)
 #2

This is a subject for the meta section more than anything.

I think a base merit requirement is important. Merit per week is a bit much. A requirement to have earned a certain amount of merit within the last month or two is a better balance.

Certain sections don't attract the handing out of merit no matter how good posts are. Others are ridiculously merit happy like the wall observer thread. It would be a shame if poster behaviour was warped by the requirement to fish for merit above creating content that doesn't make you want to hang yourself.

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March 09, 2019, 08:08:20 PM
 #3

I think meta would do

Whereas the method is a good way to encourage quality posts, it can also sometimes encourage merit abuse by certain greedy posters. So before a manager gives out bonus payments to the most merited users on that given week, looking at the quality of the merited posts could be an appropriate thing to do.

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March 09, 2019, 08:52:38 PM
 #4

Yes, Merit competitions can be a good measure to improve the posting quality and I think introducing them would also be beneficial for the advertised project. Participants are required to make posts that are not only high quality but also visible. A good post is not necessarily beneficial for the product you are advertising in your signature if it isn't noticed because it's posted in a spam-megathread. I agree to gentlemand that there are sections where it's easier to get a Merit and in the Wall Observer signatures aren't displayed, so the earned Merit there isn't affecting the visibility of the signature.
A good solution could be if there are little rewards based on Merit on a bi-weekly base in my opinion.

Most of the BTC paying signatures have already a very high posting quality because the managers do a good job in selecting quality posters. The far bigger problem is in Altcoin signatures. Some managers don't care much for post quality there and pay everyone spamming the required number of posts per week although if the quality and visibility of the posts is not acceptable. It's not only bad for the forum it's also useless for the projects because they are paying spammers for posting useless bullshit.  Cheesy
I'm not sure if lazy managers would be willing to have more work by checking the number of earned Merit if it's already not possible for them to reject shitposters effectively.  Cheesy

Whereas the method is a good way to encourage quality posts, it can also sometimes encourage merit abuse by certain greedy posters. So before a manager gives out bonus payments to the most merited users on that given week, looking at the quality of the merited posts could be an appropriate thing to do.
I'm sure the good mangers will weed out abusers when participants buy Merit or use their alts to merit their main account, in addition someone doing this would be very stupid to risk his account being tagged. The Merit system had a useful impact to discourage people doing questionable things with their accounts if the result could be a red tag.

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March 09, 2019, 10:17:48 PM
 #5

I think the managers can check posts quality and check the merits before accepting the members. I think the managers have the final word and this is how it should be since they are hired exactly for doing this, filtering shitposters and welcoming good posters. Good posters will in most of the cases have more merits than shitposters.

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March 10, 2019, 12:31:27 AM
 #6

I think if other managers follow this strategy by putting bonus stake for constructive users then it will encourage community users to make quality posts.

Actually this isn't new and other campaigns are doing the same. But when you come to think of the extra fund involved you won't have to blame the campaigns not engaged in such practice of rewarding extra ordinary poster as most of them aren't paying that much talk more of adding extra expense.

Quote
In one side its creating competition among participants to make quality post for achieving bonus. On the other hand forum will get quality posts, unique ideas and obviously going to the next level.

Aren't you forgetting the third possible scenario, it can also lead to merit abuse and spamming for merit just to get bonus.

In conclusion we shouldn't pressure any campaign or campaign manager into promising a bonus they can't fullfil since extra fund is involved and current market situation isn't favoring most projects.

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March 10, 2019, 12:32:37 AM
Merited by 1miau (1)
 #7

Well, every campaign manager have their own methods to select participants. Personally, I think that total merit earned is one of main things which should be considered when manager choose participants. But Merit earned per week - I think it's a bit too much. I don't think it's going to improve something. If user is a good poster, I don't think that he is going to make even better posts to get few bucks bonus or something. If user have right attitude, he aren't posting just for money or merit. And in general, now we can't complain about quality of posts of Bitcoin signature campaign participants. Main problem is altcoin bounties...
I'm not sure if lazy managers would be willing to have more work by checking the number of earned Merit if it's already not possible for them to reject shitposters effectively.  Cheesy
It wouldn't be big additional work, because most of bounties participants haven't earned any merit at all, some lucky spammers maybe managed to get 1-2 merit in total somehow Cheesy

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March 10, 2019, 12:43:23 AM
Merited by gentlemand (1), LoyceV (1), o_e_l_e_o (1)
 #8

Merit per week is too luck based imo and hurts those that consistently gain merits. A user might gain ~10 merits every week consistently, but may never win a bonus because every week there are inconsistent people who might gain 15 in a week and 0 in the next week. It also encourages people to post in Meta because that's the easiest section to gain merits.

If I did something like this in the ChipMixer campaign, LoyceV or DdmrDdmr would *probably* win every week because people love meriting merit/trust analysis. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it's very unlikely someone who makes very good posts in other sections would win and it would be a bit discouraging for everyone else. I do track merits as part of an interesting project, but I see no point in rewarding the top merit earners per week. This graph represents the earned merit distribution in my campaign. There are 5 clear outliers who would almost certainly win every week, despite there being plenty of other users who are deserving of a bonus.

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March 10, 2019, 01:56:24 AM
 #9

LoyceV or DdmrDdmr would *probably* win every week
It is simple to understand, because LoyceV and DdmrDdmr have been ranked in the top three in terms of top earned-merits.
They have been ranked only behind theymos.
They are both outstanding guys.
LoyceV have received more than 2100 merits, and DdmrDdmr has come so close to 2000 received merits.
https://bpip.org/report.aspx?r=mostmerited

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March 10, 2019, 03:06:32 AM
 #10

I think a base merit requirement is important. Merit per week is a bit much. A requirement to have earned a certain amount of merit within the last month or two is a better balance.

Merit Per week is really bit that much lol but if that is their rules then It is still up to them (that is not that hard tho to those who really have been contributing much from this forum).

Quote
Certain sections don't attract the handing out of merit no matter how good posts are. Others are ridiculously merit happy like the wall observer thread. It would be a shame if poster behaviour was warped by the requirement to fish for merit above creating content that doesn't make you want to hang yourself.

You also still have to consider that because if you were posting on a spam thread then it is really pretty useless. If you have to keep up to the competition then choosing the right place would be crucial.
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March 10, 2019, 03:14:46 AM
 #11

I saw non Bitcoin paying bounties doing it as well, extra stakes for people having certain amount of merit (for example, Eosbet). It's certainly distinguishes airdropped ranks vs self-made ones.

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March 10, 2019, 03:58:18 AM
 #12

Wondering most of managers (alt coin campaign) never check even quantity of post how they will find quality post if there is merit abuse?

However OP suggestion isn't bad. It would be encourage make good post at least. On the other hand it might encourage merit abuse as well. But we should take good one rather then choose bad. Even not weekly but managers can distribute few bonus stake between top merit earner monthly especially for altcoin signature. I don't think bitcoin signature manager's pick bad poster.

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March 10, 2019, 06:06:25 AM
Last edit: March 10, 2019, 05:47:47 PM by LoyceMobile
 #13

Merit per week is too luck based imo and hurts those that consistently gain merits
There's another problem with it: total merit doesn't say anything about the quality per post. If I double my post count, I'd probably earn twice as much merit. However, DdmrDdmr has earned more than twice as much per post. Gmaxwell earned like 6 merit per post.

But merit per post is easily manipulated, so you can't use that either.

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TalkStar
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March 10, 2019, 06:19:22 AM
 #14

Aren't you forgetting the third possible scenario, it can also lead to merit abuse and spamming for merit just to get bonus.

In conclusion we shouldn't pressure any campaign or campaign manager into promising a bonus they can't fullfil since extra fund is involved and current market situation isn't favoring most projects.
Personally I don't think it as a pressure for managers mate. If you just think about signature project owners side then you can observe that they are spending money for getting investors on their project. As a investor I don't show my interest when I see a shitposter wearing signature on his/her profile.

A quality post can easily attract investors concentration which is really needed for these projects IMO. I also believe that if a project get well response from bitcointalk signature campaign then managers reputation grow dramatically. We can't deny that quality post have got so many useful things. 

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March 10, 2019, 07:41:03 AM
 #15

I don't believe that merit should be a factor. The important things for campaign managers should be -

- Number of impressions
- The reputation of the poster.
- The click through rate
- The conversion rate.

Without an affiliate link, it is difficult to measure these, so the manager has to rely on earned merits, and his evaluation of a poster's history..

The Jet Cash coffee lounge in the Ivory Tower has had some good relaxing chat recently, just what you would expect.
We need some girls to brighten the conversation though.
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March 10, 2019, 08:13:18 AM
 #16

I also believe that if a project get well response from bitcointalk signature campaign then managers reputation grow dramatically.

The campaign manager then benefits due to feedbacks and forum recognition but have you considered the profit of the project been advertise, don't forget the fund aren't coming from the campaign manager so if you're advocating for merit competition just to benefit them you're doing it all wrong besides if such competitors are to be adopted officially some rules needs to be put in place to provide fair chance for all participants. Merit earned within a week doesn't automatically showcase quality produce for that week. Example for the pass few days I have been getting merited for post I wrote since February and if I was to be in such campaign offering merit competition I would had won.

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March 10, 2019, 08:32:47 AM
 #17

Do not be discouraged. Manager have right to including your as participant campaign or not. Since manager had control and know who's participant in criteria and who is goes deserved first.
If you feel like your most get tons of merits that's doesn't mean you will be picked.

Merits it's only about "Lucky". Why? Beucase if you do contribution for community and feel like deserved get a merits, that's not guarantee, but you deserved thankyou not merits. Merits come from "Source Merit" and "Member who care to share merits".

In simply case  :
J : Hello I've stuck in code, my program's not working, here's for script xxxx..
K : You just missing your " ; " in line 442. (Then the case is solved but no one given a merits, just thank)
           ^ That's only telling about short information, but constructive.
Compare with :
X : New Campaign BBB Weekly paid 0.001 / Post. But the OP derserved Merits from those random people Cheesy

So that's why i telling you, Merits only talking about "Lucky".

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March 10, 2019, 09:21:44 AM
 #18

I don’t think that any campaign is really considering the merit per week achievement to determine campaign participants. Perhaps the overall earned merits, and in some cases the earned merits within the campaign could contribute towards a bonus of some sort, but a weekly earned merit ratio would be rather over the top with the current numbers:
Code:
year nWeeks nUsers
2019 10 96
2019 9 74
2019 8 51
2019 7 73
2019 6 75
2019 5 116
2019 4 137
2019 3 273
2019 2 541
2019 1 2335
The above shows how many forum members have earned at least 1 merit in the weeks pertaining to 2019. We are currently on week number 10 of the year (partial, since data is from last Friday), and so far 96 people have managed to earn one or more merits each week of 2019, whilst the core of merited people, 2.335 have earned merits only on one of the weeks during 2019.

Even a simple criterion such as "has earned at least one merit during 2019" renders only 3771 forum members. Merit criteria for campaign selection is therefore only feasible for a select limited amount of campaigns, simply because there are not enough candidates to go around on any tight merit criteria.

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March 10, 2019, 09:26:09 AM
 #19

This is not a good idea, look what happend on Stake signature here

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5114255.0

Op accused one guy to cheat the merit system to get money for the merit contest, and in the end we discovered also the OP cheated the contest so, a merit reward system will lead a more abusing.

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March 10, 2019, 05:27:14 PM
 #20

Additionally, don't forget merit distribution isn't equal.

1. Higher member ranks tends to earn less merit as people have higher expectation or think high rank member don't need merit.
2. You're likely earn more merit if you make good post/thread on Local/Meta. There are many merit sources who visit Meta and merit source on Local Boards tends to be extra generous.
3. Topics such as forum data analysis/statistic is favored by many member.

If campaign manager want to boost participant's post quality, then he should make a competition/extra reward without mentioning the criteria to prevent abuse.

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