[Updated DECEMBER 2021] Personal Full Trust Depth viewer for all users

[LoyceV]

I encourage anyone to create their own custom Trust list!
Custom Trust lists have large recursive implications because the users you trust directly (Depth 0) make you trust the ones they trust (Depth 1), and the users they trust (Depth 2) (edited selfquote from DireWolfM14's thread, which is the reason I created this topic). This is assuming your Trust depth is set to the default value 2.
Distrust has no recursive implications: if you exclude someone, you distrust his Trust list and it doesn't further affect your own Trust list. However, if someone on your Trust list distrusts someone, you distrust that user on the next Depth level.

So, who do you trust?
I already made a Trust list viewer, but that only shows who has who on Depth 0.
Today, I add a Trust Depth viewer.

The forum's Trust settings show each user in all Depths. To keep the list readable, I show each user only once, on the highest Depth level he's in.
These lists only show the custom parts, I haven't included DefaultTrust. For your own list, you can see the same on Trust settings if you remove DefaultTrust. For anyone else, you can use my list. I've produced data up to Trust Depth 4, based on last Saturday's trust data dump.

Disclaimer
I hope I used the right assumption on how to calculate Depth 2 and deeper. From what I've checked, it should be correct, but please let me know if I made a mistake.
If it's useful, I'll do weekly updates. If nobody uses it, I'll abandon this project. I turned theymos' 150 kB file into 1.8 GB of data, and it grows exponentially when someone trusts more users.

Limited Trust Depth
For most users, the number of users trusted expands as the Trust Depth goes deeper. For others, such as raj13, it ends at Depth 2.

Sample
See: my own Trust Depth list, which includes many users I don't recognize.

See [overview] LoyceV's useful data on Bitcointalk for more of my forum-related topics

[Quickseller]

I looked at your list and there are a lot of distrusts, even on level one. I am not sure if this is a good or bad thing. I also noticed there are a lot of people with zero merit and it may be a good idea to investigate if you want these people in your trust network and why they are in your trust network and if you want the people including these people in your trust network.

I am not sure how difficult this would be, however it might be useful to include trust ratings either via DT or via a custom trust list. The rating could be as of a certain point in time so that your VPS (I presume) is not consistently scraping the same information.

[o_e_l_e_o]

This makes a great argument for setting your depth to no more than 1 if you have a custom trust list. Even on depth 1, there are a few names I am unfamiliar with and have had no interaction with, but by level 2, a quick scan and I would estimate around 75% of names are users I do not know, including many who have been inactive for months or even years and a fair few who are red trusted themselves.

[LoyceV]

I looked at your list and there are a lot of distrusts, even on level one.

Note that those aren't my own direct choices: I only distrust 9 users (explained here), but on Depth 1 I distrust 175 users through the users I trust on Depth 0.

I also noticed there are a lot of people with zero merit and it may be a good idea to investigate if you want these people in your trust network and why they are in your trust network and if you want the people including these people in your trust network.

I looked at a few, and they're older accounts, some of them inactive, included by older accounts (now DT1) years ago. I see no reason to exclude them, but I will if a reason pops up.

I am not sure how difficult this would be, however it might be useful to include trust ratings either via DT or via a custom trust list. The rating could be as of a certain point in time so that your VPS (I presume) is not consistently scraping the same information.

I can't scrape trust ratings, it needs an account to be logged in. I could get it from Vod's BPIP, it's actually not that bad to scrape 10,000 accounts per week and add the rating to the "Trust feedback" link text. It will still be slightly delayed that way. I like it!

I'm still not using a VPS, just old fashioned data uploads

This makes a great argument for setting your depth to no more than 1 if you have a custom trust list. Even on depth 1, there are a few names I am unfamiliar with and have had no interaction with

What I would really want, is to have DefaultTrust up to Depth 2, and my own Trust list up to Depth 1. Unfortunately, that's not possible.

by level 2, a quick scan and I would estimate around 75% of names are users I do not know, including many who have been inactive for months or even years and a fair few who are red trusted themselves.

So the users you trust are trusting users who trust the wrong users Let me highlight the "large recursive implications" in the OP
The red trust would be a good reason to add QuickSeller's suggestion to my list. I've sent Vod a PM asking if I can do weekly scraping from BPIP.

[Joel_Jantsen]

Wonder how did I end up in your Distrusts-List. I don't recollect having any bad experiences with you. I'd like to know if you are willing to share otherwise it's alright. 

[The Sceptical Chymist]

This makes a great argument for setting your depth to no more than 1 if you have a custom trust list. <snip>

Thank you for stating that.  I had to go and check to see what depth I had my settings at, and thankfully I did set the depth at 1.  For some reason I thought I had it at 3, but I think I changed it at some point.

Wonder how did I end up in your Distrusts-List. I don't recollect having any bad experiences with you. I'd like to know if you are willing to share otherwise it's alright. 

Hmm.  I'm curious about that too, but I do recall you having it out with at least one DT member not too long ago.  Can't remember what it was about for the life of me, though.  I've always thought you were pretty trustworthy.

[LoyceV]

Wonder how did I end up in your Distrusts-List. I don't recollect having any bad experiences with you. I'd like to know if you are willing to share otherwise it's alright.  

You're not on my distrust-list. I only distrust these users directly:

Trust list for: LoyceV (DT1! (42) 2230 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP) (created 2019-03-23_Sat_05.36h)
Back to index

LoyceV Distrusts:
1. ~peloso (74 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
2. ~cryptohunter (124 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
3. ~BiPolarBob (52 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
4. ~Gleb Gamow (118 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
5. ~BetKing.io (9 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
6. ~gamerfan (1 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
7. ~IdiotCoder (13 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
8. ~SmartPayMINT (9 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
9. ~LoyceValenzuela (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)

However, the recursive implications make that I have you excluded on my Depth 2. That means one of the users I trust:

LoyceV Trusts:
1. dooglus (126 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
2. gmaxwell (DT1! (21) 1093 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
3. Vod (DT1! (35) 1050 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
4. SaltySpitoon (562 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
5. mprep (DT1! (16) 320 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
6. philipma1957 (DT1! (13) 603 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
7. Cyrus (DT1! (19) 100 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
8. guitarplinker (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
9. NLNico (202 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
10. Blazed (93 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
11. hilariousandco (DT1! (37) 449 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
12. cryptodevil (DT1! (12) 97 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
13. suchmoon (DT1! (38) 1768 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
14. actmyname (DT1! (23) 430 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
15. The Pharmacist (DT1! (31) 1609 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
16. DarkStar_ (DT1! (24) 646 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
17. marlboroza (710 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
18. coinlocket$ (DT1! (18) 791 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)

.. Must have someone on his trust list who distrusts you:

Trust list for: Joel_Jantsen (192 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP) (created 2019-03-23_Sat_05.36h)
Back to index

~Joel_Jantsen is Distrusted by:
1. Anduck (33 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
2. Operatr (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
3. leancuisine (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
4. gysca (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
5. owlcatz (DT1! (20) 192 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
6. txbtc (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
7. P4ndoraBox7 (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
8. james.lent (1 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
9. CanadaBits (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
10. Miyslovenic (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
11. Funny (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
12. PrivacyLock (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
13. vCardVideo (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
14. tennozer (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
15. sardasa (2 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)

There could be more than one connection, I found at least owlcatz: he's trusted by suchmoon, The Pharmacist and DarkStar_, and distrusts you. That puts owlcatz on my Depth 1, which excludes you on my Depth 2.

Only 2 users have included you:

Joel_Jantsen is Trusted by:
1. shameonscams (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
2. CryptoGamblingSites (19 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)

That means you don't stand a chance against the exclusions.

To show how strong the recursive effect is: 2053 out of 3895 users with a custom trust list have you excluded up to Depth 4.
Per Depth level:
Depth 0: 14 users
Depth 1: 106 users
Depth 2: 546 users
Depth 3: 919 users
Depth 4: 468 users

Update: at Depth 0 you should have 15 exclusions. I turns out I ignored the users who only distrust others without trusting anyone. I don't think this matters much for the end result. I'll fix this in the next update.

I do recall you having it out with at least one DT member not too long ago.

Was it owlcatz?

[r1s2g3]

Do you think Distrust depth will be working on the same way as trust depth?
Because I see couple of DT1 in your distrust depth 1 and I do not think their feedback will be displayed as untrusted feedback to you.

Edit: I am confused, Fuzzstone is DT1 but still his feedback are untrusted? It is due to my custom trust list?

[o_e_l_e_o]

Do you think Distrust depth will be working on the same way as trust depth?

It does. If I distrust a user, but someone I trust trusts the same user, the higher level exclusion overrules the lower level inclusion, and their feedback will appear untrusted to me.

Edit: I am confused, Fuzzstone is DT1 but still his feedback are untrusted? It is due to my custom trust list?

The Default Trust list is essentially meaningless to you if you have your own custom trust list. Even adding a single person to your custom trust list will remove Default Trust for you, and so their feedback becomes untrusted unless you manually add them to your own list. See below from theymos:

If your trust list is totally empty, you trust "DefaultTrust", which includes some trustworthy people that I'll select. But if you add anyone to your trust list, even if they don't trust anyone, DefaultTrust will no longer be considered part of your trust list.

[LoyceV]

Do you think Distrust depth will be working on the same way as trust depth?

I'm not sure what you're asking.
Distrust ends at the user you distrust, his Trust list doesn't influence yours any deeper after that.

Because I see couple of DT1 in your distrust depth 1 and I do not think their feedback will be displayed as untrusted feedback to you.

OgNasty, vizique, BitcoinPenny and TheFuzzStone are the only DT1s on my Depth 1 distrust list.
When I look at my Trust list including DefaultTrust, OgNasty is at (-1) (which means he's excluded), while vizique, BitcoinPenny and TheFuzzStone are all at (0) (which means they're included).
I still haven't decided what to do with this information

[Edit: I am confused, Fuzzstone is DT1 but still his feedback are untrusted? It is due to my custom trust list?

Your personal Trust Depth excludes TheFuzzStone on Depth 1. If you also trust DefaultTrust, your Depth 1 competes directly with DT1, and if there are more exclusions than inclusions, TheFuzzStone is untrusted to you.

The Default Trust list is essentially meaningless to you if you have your own custom trust list. Even adding a single person to your custom trust list will remove Default Trust for you, and so their feedback becomes untrusted unless you manually add them to your own list. See below from theymos:

If your trust list is totally empty, you trust "DefaultTrust", which includes some trustworthy people that I'll select. But if you add anyone to your trust list, even if they don't trust anyone, DefaultTrust will no longer be considered part of your trust list.

I don't think this is still correct, and I've just tested it: as long as you add "DefaultTrust" to your Trust list, it's included on your Depth 0, which means all DT1-members are included on your Depth 1, and all DT2-members are included on your Depth 2.
If you don't want this, you can just remove "DefaultTrust".

[o_e_l_e_o]

The Default Trust list is essentially meaningless to you if you have your own custom trust list. Even adding a single person to your custom trust list will remove Default Trust for you, and so their feedback becomes untrusted unless you manually add them to your own list.

I don't think this is still correct, and I've just tested it: as long as you add "DefaultTrust" to your Trust list, it's included on your Depth 0, which means all DT1-members are included on your Depth 1, and all DT2-members are included on your Depth 2.

Apologies, I've phrased this a bit ambiguously. I had meant unless you manually add "DefaultTrust" as an entity back on to your own trust list, but reading it back I can see that it seems like I'm referring to individual users rather than DefaultTrust as a whole. Your explanation makes it clearer. I was mistaken in thinking Default Trust had a space in it, though.

[Quickseller]

I looked at your list and there are a lot of distrusts, even on level one.

Note that those aren't my own direct choices: I only distrust 9 users (explained here), but on Depth 1 I distrust 175 users through the users I trust on Depth 0.

Right, the majority of these are not something you specifically did.

I believe the large number of exclusions means two things:
*Using a fairly small custom trust list will result in many people being in your trust network, many of whom you would not normally trust their ratings, or otherwise.
*There is a very large premium to having those on your trust list with good trust lists.

IIRC, there were only a handful of exclusions on DT under the old system, and on your level one, there are more exclusions than inclusions. I would draw the conclusion that many on your level2 depth do not have good trust lists, to the extent that those on your level1 are needing to "fix" these "mistakes" by excluding many people they don't want in their trust network.

This is not a new thing as a result to recent DT changes. I had used a custom trust list for years, and had to exclude many people. I would sometimes investigate why all these people I don't want in my trust network were appearing, but ultimately it was hard to correct the root causes of having untrustworthy people in my trust network. 

I am not sure how difficult this would be, however it might be useful to include trust ratings either via DT or via a custom trust list. The rating could be as of a certain point in time so that your VPS (I presume) is not consistently scraping the same information.

I can't scrape trust ratings, it needs an account to be logged in. I could get it from Vod's BPIP, it's actually not that bad to scrape 10,000 accounts per week and add the rating to the "Trust feedback" link text. It will still be slightly delayed that way. I like it!

You could create an account called "LoyceBot" that theymos would presumably be willing to whitelist for you that could scrape trust ratings on a periodic basis. He might even be willing to allow it to see the investigations board if you have a good reason to be scraping posts from there.

[LoyceV]

IIRC, there were only a handful of exclusions on DT under the old system

It's a result of more users creating their own custom trust list. I had only one exclusion before theymos changed the DefaultTrust system, because there was no need for it earlier.

You could create an account called "LoyceBot" that theymos would presumably be willing to whitelist for you that could scrape trust ratings on a periodic basis. He might even be willing to allow it to see the investigations board if you have a good reason to be scraping posts from there.

I created LoyceBot 2 years ago I looked into it after your post, and it turned out to be pretty easy to feed the login cookie.txt to my scraper.
I haven't adjusted my script yet, I'm hoping to make some time for it today.

[LoyceV]

I am not sure how difficult this would be, however it might be useful to include trust ratings either via DT or via a custom trust list.

Done: I've added trust scores to all users, based on DefaultTrust DT2. I have some red trusted users on my Depth 2, but don't really want to add them all to my distrust list just to remove them from my Depth 2. That's DT3 to the rest of the forum.

Updated
Trust Depth viewer

[Joel_Jantsen]

Sorry for replying late here folks

Hmm.  I'm curious about that too, but I do recall you having it out with at least one DT member not too long ago.  Can't remember what it was about for the life of me, though.  I've always thought you were pretty trustworthy.

Thanks for stating that! Oh, and I had an argument with @allyouracid who was recently added as a DT member. But we're cool since he removed the feedback after realizing it was irrelevant.

Was it owlcatz?

Thanks for explaining it in a detailed way man! The new system seems quite decentralized then. And yes, I do recollect stating that I don't quite agree with owlcatz on certain cases where I felt their feedback was not appropriate. It's alright if that behavior of mine is considered as "untrustworthy". 

[LoyceV]

Updated with last Saturday's trust data dump.
This is the last update for a while, unless someone requests an update. It's a lot of data for weekly updates.

[matthewgs]

This is really awesome, very helpful for those who want to do some research. Please do not drop this project !!

[LoyceV]

Update!

I've updated the Personal Full Trust Depth viewer today. I started the process before this morning's Trust data dump, so all data is based on last week's Trust lists. If anyone is interested in another update in the future, let me know.

[LoyceV]

Update (based on last Saturday's Trust data dump):

Trust Depth viewer.

This has grown to 4.6 GB of data.

On my Trust list, I include 19 users on Depth 0, 159 on Depth 1 and 443 on Depth 2. There are even more on Depth 3 and 4, but I don't use see those with default (Trust depth 2) settings.
On Depth 1 already, I don't recognize all usernames. My exclusions on Depth 1 include many users who's judgement I don't necessarily distrust. On Depth 2, I don't recognize the majority of the 2003 excluded users.

Use this to improve your own Trust list. If anyone wants an update later, feel free to ask.

[LoyceV]

Last week, a question from GazetaBitcoin reminded me about this topic. Since my last update was 1.5 years ago, I ran an update. Processing the data took 5 days, that's why it's based on last Saturday's Trust data dump.

Update:

Trust Depth viewer.