How a select few users of the forum finessed you all (NSFW)

[Hudson-Odoi]

Consider this scenario.

A few users, powerful users use their influence to change the forum dynamics.
We see now where we have a merit system where it is set up that these powerful members decide who decides to rank up, particularly considering that these powerful users are awarded merit points out of thin air for nothing. I think you call them merit sources. Besides from merit sources, these powerful members constantly virtue signal by meriting each other for every half-arsed thread posted in  meta (or anywhere where they see each other post really). We now have a forum where only these powerful people and people who they like rank up.

When we take a look at high-ranked accounts that earn money from signature campaigns, there is a downward trend. The fact is that owners of these accounts sometimes leave the forum, or even die. Accounts may get banned or given negative trust for some reason. What happens here is that you have less high ranking members every day because people are leaving and because of how the powerful members I mentioned before operate, very few members rank up to take the positions of those gone.

The trouble starts when we realize that those high-ranked accounts are used to enter signature campaigns to make money.

To look everything over, these powerful members control the ranking system. A system where they themselves and people who they like rank up. Other high ranking members are eliminated from the scenario for reasons mentioned above.At the end of the day, we have only these high powerful members and their friends in the higher ranks of the forum. What happens is that only this select group are able to make any sort of money from their accounts.
It gets worse, these powerful members also run the campaigns. They are paid to pay their friends and people who they like. Because of the ever declining number of high ranking accounts, these campaigns in time will pay more as demand stays the same but supply decreases. This leads to campaign managers and campaign participants (Powerful members and people they like fall into both categories) being paid more.

Now all we see are people virtue signalling these powerful members (basically sucking their dicks digitally) to get on their good side and maybe have some merit sent their way.

Signatures should be banned on the forum, if companies are serious then they can bid for banner spots on the forum. This, unlike signature campaigns, will directly contribute to the development of the forum.

[CryptopreneurBrainboss]

Here's an advice buddy, if you took half of the time you spent into thinking and writing this post into making other meaningful and quality post to the forum, it'll earn you some merit. We have numerous merit sources over 100+ and meriters too (those that have smerits) so if you delivery quality posts it won't go unnoticed.

[Hudson-Odoi]

Here's an advice buddy, if you took half of the time you spent into thinking and writing this post into making other meaningful and quality post to the forum, it'll earn you some merit. We have numerous merit sources over 100+ and meriters too (those that have smerits) so if you delivery quality posts it won't go unnoticed.

Here we see some of the virtue signalling that I had mentioned before.
This individual sped through the post to make a generic reply posted many times on the forum in many different threads.
He really is just posting thing like this to please others, hopefully he gets some merit for this as it's clear that that's what he is working for here.

If you had spent some time to read the post then you'd realize that I don't care for receiving merits, I want that system gone. I also want signature campaigns gone, I think that struck a nerve with you for some reason. Maybe because you benefit from these campaigns (that I want gone) on a weekly basis.

Here's an advice buddy, if you took half of the time you spent into thinking and writing this post into making other meaningful and quality post to the forum, it'll earn you some merit. We have numerous merit sources over 100+ and meriters too (those that have smerits) so if you delivery quality posts it won't go unnoticed.

Imagine how surprised everyone was when someone abusing signature campaigns was against the idea of ending signature campaigns.

[LoyceV]

If you had spent some time to read the post then you'd realize that I don't care for receiving merits, I want that system gone.

Then come up with a better system to reduce spam. From what I've read, removing signatures would be a last resort.
For your information: I don't send Merit to friends, and I don't have 867 "friends" on this forum. I send Merit to posts that aren't spam, as that's what this forum needs. Note that my Merit is not an endorsement, I don't agree with most of what you're saying.

The DT system isn't perfect, but you too can do your part:

I encourage anyone to create their own custom Trust list!

[Quickseller]

There has been a relatively small number of people rank up to above Full Member (not all that many people have ranked up to Full Member)since the merit system has been implemented.

I am curious to know if you have any measurable stats as to how many higher ranking accounts have stopped being active over the past 18 months.

The DT system isn't perfect, but you too can do your part:

I encourage anyone to create their own custom Trust list!

I don't think this will do anything to correct the DT system. Most people, even those with custom lists will use DT scores as a baseline for trying to determine someone's trustworthiness, and ability to participate in advertising campaigns.

[CryptopreneurBrainboss]

If you had spent some time to read the post then you'd realize that I don't care for receiving merits, I want that system gone.

I did read the whole post and i found it interesting at the same time captivating that's why I give you that suggestion because most people that make such post are mainly people who're either not benefitting from the system as it was intended and most times aren't recieving any merit but wish they did as a result they come over to meta asking theymos to stop the system. The system isn't perfect and stopping it isn't the perfect solutions either. But I just wanted you to know we have those willing to merit quality (constructive) posts when they see one it's just left for the members to put in some work like you just did.

[LoyceV]

I am curious to know if you have any measurable stats as to how many higher ranking accounts have stopped being active over the past 18 months.

That would require a lot of scraping. As an quick alternative, I took the 1000 Most Active Profiles on BPIP and sorted them. They were Last Active:

    1. 1560 days ago
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We've lost many high ranking users.

[AB de Royse777]

~snip~

We've lost many high ranking users.

Those with 2 days ago or even 30 days ago are not gonners in my opinion or may be lass than 50 days but those with over 50 days has something wrong. And I see their numbers are 233, also you are saying it was an a quick alternative.

The statistic says the forum has 2,564,745 users but I bet there won't be more than few thousands who are active including the bounty hunters. Let's say 10,000 users?

From this 10K active users how many of them you think care about the forum? Not even few hundreds? From these goners if you find few tens who really cared/cares about the forum then this is very sad news for the community.

I hope those gonners were spammers, they never cared about the forum and none of them were a loyal member.

[Pmalek]

You have examples of the opposite posted both in Meta and the H&B board. Users ranking up from Newbie level to Sr. Members and even Hero.
I don't belong to that group you call 'powerful members' group. I am not DT, I am not a merit source or make any decisions here, I am not a staff member or in any way powerful or important.

In a few weeks I hope to see my name on one list though, namely members who have ranked up from Hero to Legendary. A very exclusive list that very few have achieved. I have had the luck to get accepted in one of the top signature campaigns due to the quality of my posts although I don't consider myself a top poster and my knowledge of bitcoin is on an average level, certainly not excellent. But what I lack in the technical knowledge department I make up in researching and searching for right answers when other users need help and I guess that hasn't gone unnoticed. I am thankful for that.  

If you are not satisfied with the current system we have you can always propose a better. What do you want to improve and how do you think it could be made better?

[Jet Cash]

To the OP.

You are falling into the same boring rhetoric and received "wisdom" that appears fairly regularly. I'm here again with another 250+ merits to award, and I'm going to have to spend an hour or so to try to find some good posts to reward. I'll be lucky to be able to give away more than 50 of them. No doubt many of them will go to members who already have over 2,000 merits, and some say that will be a waste. I don't think this is true, because they will probably be experienced and knowledgeable members, and their posts will be helpful and informative. In my opinion it is important to give them encouragement and recognition for the benefits for the forum that they provide. Does it matter if they earn money from their signatures? Hopefully they value their reputations enough to promote good, honest sponsors, and this in itself is another benefit for forum readers.

Of course merit sources have a delegated power to assist in the promotion of good and active newer members - this was the reason the merit system was introduced. Trying to fight the current system is more of an indication of a lack of self-analysis, than a fault in the system. There are numerous threads and senior members who are more than willing to help other members, and this is one of the strengths of this forum. Interests and skills are extremely diverse here, so if you can't find a peer group, then you really need to step back and consider your motivations. The forum isn't a faucet to reward graffiti artists, and please respect the moderators and others who have the job of cleaning the boards ( even the over-enthusiastic ones ).

[Hudson-Odoi]

To the OP.

~snip~

A bit rich coming from you, that fact that you've given or gotten merits from every DT member that has given you positive feedback points back to the circle-jerk that I have been speaking of. You merit each other, and you leave each other positive trust. That's all you do.

Well, almost all, whenever you aren't busy sending jackg merits everytime he sneezes, you're on the forum handing out 10 merits for posts like this.

Hello Everyone

I have been mining for almost 6 months but I didn’t build it nor did it program it. I had a friend who helped me out but since then I have been interested in building my own and programming it myself. I have learnt to build it but just need to learn the programmingt, maintaining and upgrading part of the miner.

I have been looking but things seem very confusing with most people giving their opinions rather than actual knowledge. Can anyone please help me by providing me certain links as a newbie in this and other areas once I am able to increase my knowledge I can move up and keep learning.

Thank you

Absolutely shocking how there are people making dozens of constructive posts here on the forum without getting a single merit when members like 'Jet Cash' has the ability to give a single account the ability to rank up twice by sending 10 merits for a post that doesn't add value to the forum. You should be embarrassed to the point where you shouldn't feel comfortable showing your face in this thread. You are the poster-child of the self righteous members on here that I've been speaking about.

[LoyceV]

handing out 10 merits for posts like this.

I'm just leaving this here:

If they complain about amounts, tell them to complain to me. It's best if sources try to exhaust their source allocations, even if it means giving posts higher amounts than is typical.

Absolutely shocking how there are people making dozens of constructive posts here on the forum without getting a single merit

Please help me find those rare users with dozens of unmerited constructive posts by reporting them here: Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source

[TheNewAnon135246]

Why aren't you posting from your main account?

[Hudson-Odoi]

If you had spent some time to read the post then you'd realize that I don't care for receiving merits, I want that system gone.

Then come up with a better system to reduce spam. From what I've read, removing signatures would be a last resort.
For your information: I don't send Merit to friends, and I don't have 867 "friends" on this forum. I send Merit to posts that aren't spam, as that's what this forum needs. Note that my Merit is not an endorsement, I don't agree with most of what you're saying.

The DT system isn't perfect, but you too can do your part:

I encourage anyone to create their own custom Trust list!

How are people who spend only a couple of hours on here on a weekly basis going to construct a trust list from scratch? Building your own trust list is reasonable only for those who spend countless hours here, normal/conservative don't absorb enough information to construct a trust list that would be reliable in any sense.

handing out 10 merits for posts like this.

I'm just leaving this here:

If they complain about amounts, tell them to complain to me. It's best if sources try to exhaust their source allocations, even if it means giving posts higher amounts than is typical.

~snip~

Do I have to spell everything out? If you read carefully, you'll realize that my argument is that that post doesn't deserve to be merited at all. My quarrel is not with the amount that was merited.

[LoyceV]

Why aren't you posting from your main account?

It looks like cryptohunter's alt, I'll stop talking to this user.

[Hudson-Odoi]

Naturally, when they can't put an argument together, they run away claiming that I'm an alt of someone who I don't even know.

[TopTort777]

Sorry for bothering, but why this topic has (NSFW) tag ?
Not safe for work I suppose that is. But I see no tits pictures here 

[The Sceptical Chymist]

A system where they themselves and people who they like rank up. Other high ranking members are eliminated from the scenario for reasons mentioned above.At the end of the day, we have only these high powerful members and their friends in the higher ranks of the forum.

I can only really speak for myself, but take a look at the merits I've given out.  I'm a merit source and happen to be in a signature campaign, btw.  I take my position as a source fairly seriously, and I do make an effort to help lower-ranked members earn enough merits to rank up.  And let me tell you, it is no easy task, because most newbies nowadays come here only to make money, and they tend to be lazy posters with nothing interesting to say.  Before you say that's too broad a generalization, let me mention that I've learned this fact through 4 years of experience on bitcointalk--4 years of reading constant shitposting by newbies who can't write English and couldn't compose a coherent sentence to save their life.

I'm not trying to hold anyone back except the garbage posters, but that's a good thing.  That's why Theymos created the merit system in the first place.

If you don't like signature campaigns or think they're inherently unfair for whatever reason, you're free to not join one.  In fact, you're free to find another forum if you don't like this one. 

It looks like cryptohunter's alt, I'll stop talking to his user.

Could be.  He certainly has the cryptohunter-type prolix down pat.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Another claim that there are loads of great posts going unmerited, but with no proof to substantiate that claim. I, and many others, spend a good deal of time reading absolute trash while looking for good posts to award merit. If you would like to address both your perceived injustice whilst saving us all some time, simply provide some links to all these great posts (here or in LoyceV's thread which he has linked to above). I'll be more than happy to award them merit.

[TheNewAnon135246]

Why aren't you posting from your main account?

It looks like cryptohunter's alt, I'll stop talking to his user.

- Long posts : ✔
- Complaining about DT : ✔
- Obsessed with having discussions/arguements: ✔

It's definitely a possibility.