Thailand files complaint against Bitcoin Seasteader

[TheCoinGrabber]

First thing in the morning and this is the first Bitcoin news that showed up in my feed... https://www.ccn.com/rich-bitcoin-trader-risks-death-penalty-for-building-home-on-the-sea/amp

I remember there was a thread here talking about this same project. Also IIRC they were still within Thailand's territorial waters. Do you think the government would push through the complaint and actually arrest the couple?

I think this case would hamper further seasteading attempts since they would all have to at least be assembled near the coast before being dragged into international waters. Governments can follow Thailand's example and file complaints while projects are still under construction.

[1715166931]

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[1715166931]

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[TECSHARE]

First thing in the morning and this is the first Bitcoin news that showed up in my feed... https://www.ccn.com/rich-bitcoin-trader-risks-death-penalty-for-building-home-on-the-sea/amp

I remember there was a thread here talking about this same project. Also IIRC they were still within Thailand's territorial waters. Do you think the government would push through the complaint and actually arrest the couple?

I think this case would hamper further seasteading attempts since they would all have to at least be assembled near the coast before being dragged into international waters. Governments can follow Thailand's example and file complaints while projects are still under construction.

One of Elwar's threads: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095773.0;all

That's too bad. Its a shame Thailand is cracking down on this because it could be an economic boon to them. I suppose control is more important than their economy though. I hope they know how bad they are making themselves look by taking this move. Also generally it is not a good idea to threaten the lives of people in a community who are smart, rich, and resourceful. If they go too far they are going to create a self fulfilling prophesy and make themselves a target.

[BADecker]

This is why I would rather do it by boat. What's it going to take to drag that thing far enough away from Thailand so it won't bother them or anyone? Also, I thought there were reports from the Seasteading Institute that Elwar had gotten permission from Thailand.

[theymos]

This is our very own Elwar. I very much hope he makes it out of there safely...

It's depressing for the whole seasteading movement. The dream is/was to be able to have many tiny sovereign seasteads ("let a thousand nations bloom"), but this makes me think that we may in practice need larger, more defensible seasteads along with guaranteed-autonomy agreements with governments. Or maybe someone needs to create a large private military that is a credible threat against countries like Thailand, and sell "invasion insurance" to seasteads.

Also, I thought there were reports from the Seasteading Institute that Elwar had gotten permission from Thailand.

I remember that Blue Frontiers had some sort of an agreement with French Polynesia; I don't know about Thailand.

[okala]

Well wealth can lead to your death also and if you don't managed your self in the wealth and property, the Thailand law does not support such  lifestyle and at that you can be imprison for it. I will watch out for the out come of this case.

[otrkid1970]

Death sentence for a Seastead??  Holy shit talk about strict laws.

[robbylove]

This is why you should always never show your cards to a system you are trying to openly replace and destroy...

Stay safe Elwar. Always appreciated your energy.

 

[vapourminer]

the thing that bothers me is that he was very open about the whole project. its not like it was a secret, this was months in the making, and pretty well documented on social media. at any time the Thia government could of said, look, you cant do that here.

instead, they wait till its up, send a naval warship and charge them with a crime that can carry the death penalty or life imprisonment?

thats gonna do wonders for the Thia tourism industry.

a stern warning, tell them to tow that thing elsewhere and that would be enough to send the message.

and i always had Thailand on the list of places i wanted to see in my travels. not so much now.

elwar, my prayers are with you and your wife. stay safe and hope to hear from you soon.

[Mometaskers]

Any news from him on how he's doing? It's disappointing what the Thai government did to him.

Hopefully the same thing don't happen to the project in Polynesia. That is a far ambitious project. If the government end up seizing it I'd be pissed.

This is why I would rather do it by boat. What's it going to take to drag that thing far enough away from Thailand so it won't bother them or anyone? Also, I thought there were reports from the Seasteading Institute that Elwar had gotten permission from Thailand.

A yacht - or a cruise ship. I remember watching a documentary about a family living in a yacht, a couple and a son and daughter. I think that setup is much easier to move around.

[Artemis3]

Death sentence for a Seastead??  Holy shit talk about strict laws.

Perhaps, since Thailand is a Monarchy ruled by a military Junta. I'm not sure a house on a stick warrants such a high penalty, but they might see it as someone defying the "king's sovereignty" or such...

I told him an actual ship was better, it moves, can easily go into international waters... Oh well.

[BADecker]

Any news from him on how he's doing? It's disappointing what the Thai government did to him.

Hopefully the same thing don't happen to the project in Polynesia. That is a far ambitious project. If the government end up seizing it I'd be pissed.

This is why I would rather do it by boat. What's it going to take to drag that thing far enough away from Thailand so it won't bother them or anyone? Also, I thought there were reports from the Seasteading Institute that Elwar had gotten permission from Thailand.

A yacht - or a cruise ship. I remember watching a documentary about a family living in a yacht, a couple and a son and daughter. I think that setup is much easier to move around.

Maybe Elwar and his people lived on boats for a while. I think he wants to make something more permanent.

I think he thought he had checked into the Thai government thing before he did it where he did it. Perhaps Thailand area waters are the best suited for Elwar's project. Elevations of the oceans can be found here - https://maps.ngdc.noaa.gov/viewers/bathymetry/ - in the event he wants to move. However, there may be reasons that make other suitable elevations to be just as hostile as Thailand, only in other ways - like storms or shipping routes or other governments, etc.

Many foreign (to the USA) countries formally agree with the 12-mile internationally accepted territorial waters limit, but in reality support a 200-mile limit which was common in the past.

[Quickseller]

If he hasn’t been arrested yet, and he and his wife have a valid passport, they should flea the country.

In general, in order to get extradited from another country, the alleged crime in question needs to also be illegal in the deporting country and also, many countries will not extradite if the death penalty is being considered.

Edit: it looks like they are currently in hiding. The Thailand navy reportedly raided the structure today (Thursday), but no one was there. Elwars visa was apparently revoked. Hopefully they have made it out of the country. 

[BitBustah]

This is our very own Elwar. I very much hope he makes it out of there safely...

It's depressing for the whole seasteading movement. The dream is/was to be able to have many tiny sovereign seasteads ("let a thousand nations bloom"), but this makes me think that we may in practice need larger, more defensible seasteads along with guaranteed-autonomy agreements with governments. Or maybe someone needs to create a large private military that is a credible threat against countries like Thailand, and sell "invasion insurance" to seasteads.

Also, I thought there were reports from the Seasteading Institute that Elwar had gotten permission from Thailand.

I remember that Blue Frontiers had some sort of an agreement with French Polynesia; I don't know about Thailand.

A private military is the only way to show these governments you mean business.  Without one they will just continue to walk over anyone attempting to break away from their control.

[malevolent]

A private military is the only way to show these governments you mean business.  Without one they will just continue to walk over anyone attempting to break away from their control.

A United Nations peacekeeping mission would get sent on your way if you were to be treated as a credible threat (ie. were you to demonstrate you actually 'mean business).

[CoinCube]

If he hasn’t been arrested yet, and he and his wife have a valid passport, they should flea the country.

In general, in order to get extradited from another country, the alleged crime in question needs to also be illegal in the deporting country and also, many countries will not extradite if the death penalty is being considered.

Edit: it looks like they are currently in hiding. The Thailand navy reportedly raided the structure today (Thursday), but no one was there. Elwars visa was apparently revoked. Hopefully they have made it out of the country. 

History in the making here.

Stay safe Elwar.
 

[tippytoes]

First thing in the morning and this is the first Bitcoin news that showed up in my feed... https://www.ccn.com/rich-bitcoin-trader-risks-death-penalty-for-building-home-on-the-sea/amp

I remember there was a thread here talking about this same project. Also IIRC they were still within Thailand's territorial waters. Do you think the government would push through the complaint and actually arrest the couple?

I think this case would hamper further seasteading attempts since they would all have to at least be assembled near the coast before being dragged into international waters. Governments can follow Thailand's example and file complaints while projects are still under construction.

One of Elwar's threads: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095773.0;all

That's too bad. Its a shame Thailand is cracking down on this because it could be an economic boon to them. I suppose control is more important than their economy though. I hope they know how bad they are making themselves look by taking this move. Also generally it is not a good idea to threaten the lives of people in a community who are smart, rich, and resourceful. If they go too far they are going to create a self fulfilling prophesy and make themselves a target.

Read that thread before and considered it as a great news. Actually, I don't see anything wrong with what they are doing. Death penalty for such act? And considering that they obtained their necessary permits. What is wrong with this country? They should settle the situation in a more humane way.

[BADecker]

All that this shows is, you aren't strong enough to protect yourself when you are alone.

So, you are strong when you have a government that joins you with others so that you can protect each other.

The result (history shows us) is that the government craftily and slyly turns against the people that it was designed to protect.

[Quickseller]

A private military is the only way to show these governments you mean business.  Without one they will just continue to walk over anyone attempting to break away from their control.

He apparently did something similar to just this:

If your not protected by any country can't a group of pirates just overtake your seastead and there is nothing you can do about it.

That's the thing. We have no country preventing us from doing something about it. Pirates thrive due to merchant ships not being allowed to have guns.

We have guns. With more (bigger ones) coming.

I don't particularly think this is a good idea, and this may have been why the Thai government feels threatened. A "private" military originating out of a Seastead community is not going to win any kind of armed conflict with the Thailand military, that is very modest compared to most other countries.

Having sufficient weapons to defend against pirates is acceptable. But I think having weapons that approaches something that resembles any kind of military is probably not going to end well for you.

I don't know how many weapons Elwar had, or if this was even why the Thai government doesn't like what he is doing, but in any case, I don't think his intention was to harm the Thai government, and I don't think any kind of jailing is appropriate for what he did, and the death penalty is most certainly not appropriate.

[TheCoinGrabber]

They've cancelled their visas. Thankfully they've not managed to catch them but it now seems their in hiding with little options of leaving that goddamn cuntry.

the thing that bothers me is that he was very open about the whole project. its not like it was a secret, this was months in the making, and pretty well documented on social media. at any time the Thia government could of said, look, you cant do that here.

instead, they wait till its up, send a naval warship and charge them with a crime that can carry the death penalty or life imprisonment?

True, it's like they wanted to "make an example" out of him from the very beginning. Makes one wonder if the Thai gov't came up with this idea on their own. We'll just have to see if they benefit from this. I mean, it took the Ecuadorians an IMF loan to sell Assange.

I think the error was branding it as "seasteading to form a microstate". Could have publicized it as testing a solution for housing in flood-prone areas or places vulnerable to rising sea levels (which is a hip topic). The guns could be justified as piracy protection. But then again Elwar seem to be a guy that wears his heart on his sleeves.

[mu_enrico]

Yeah, it would not work if he is still on the territorial sea. I feel sorry for him though even I didn't know him.

I think the seasteader project could be done if its build on top of the international sea. However, if it's too far, then we have difficulties to go in/out for supplies.