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Author Topic: Collecting Community input needed>> Definitions used in our unique hobby  (Read 568 times)
minerjones
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April 25, 2019, 03:21:09 PM
Merited by krogothmanhattan (1)
 #21

More ramblings.
What is a limited edition? / Low production?
100? 1000? 10000? 1000000?
There are 7 billion+ people in the world. If I make 10K or 100k or 10 million of something that everyone wants it's all a limited edition.
Crypto collectables is a much smaller pool, but once again as a small sampling of the group we might want to start coming up with our own standard of what is limited. 50? 100?

Might be worth a discussion.

-Dave

  Great point!  What defines rare?

I would think n-1 would make anything limited, as there would not be enough for everyone to have one... thus making it "limited"
(N = pool of people available to have item)

Anything that doesn't have open-ended production (like a bag of chips) would be considered "limited"

But then again... are we not limited by what the earth provides / what we can do as man?

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April 25, 2019, 08:53:18 PM
 #22

Add collectibles.
unique community, yes!
input needed thanks.

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May 03, 2019, 02:15:07 PM
Merited by krogothmanhattan (1)
 #23

  b) Do not trust the grading that much after I saw them grade a killyou, satori chips and fake coins.

This just came up in a different forum about regular silver coins.

Short version:
Do we need a "graded reliable" and "graded unreliable"

Long version:
Do we need / should we have a discussion out here in public, probably on a separate thread about the "quality" or "accuracy" of coin grading houses in regard to cryptos?
If we know "A" will grade something that has been driven over by a UPS truck with a MS65 but "B" will kick it back to you with a comment of *hell no* scribbled on the receipt should this information be more accessible?

As krogothmanhattan said about checking the load of a coin. Caveat Emptor!  BUT, if without digging through 100s of posts it becomes almost impossible. Even with a bit of digging I still don't know who graded the killyou coin.

Dave's logic behind making this more public --> Anything we can do to help remove scammers is good. Anything we can do to make scammers lives more difficult is good. If a new person does not know and does not look to find out that's on them.  If they don't know and we do but don't tell them and make it difficult to find out, that's on us.

Counter argument --> We are not your mom. It's not our job. 

Sorry for the rambling, but someone on the silver forum just did a test with PCGS grading and it ended...poorly...lets leave it at that.

-Dave




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May 03, 2019, 02:19:35 PM
 #24

 b) Do not trust the grading that much after I saw them grade a killyou, satori chips and fake coins.

This just came up in a different forum about regular silver coins.

Short version:
Do we need a "graded reliable" and "graded unreliable"

Long version:
Do we need / should we have a discussion out here in public, probably on a separate thread about the "quality" or "accuracy" of coin grading houses in regard to cryptos?
If we know "A" will grade something that has been driven over by a UPS truck with a MS65 but "B" will kick it back to you with a comment of *hell no* scribbled on the receipt should this information be more accessible?

As krogothmanhattan said about checking the load of a coin. Caveat Emptor!  BUT, if without digging through 100s of posts it becomes almost impossible. Even with a bit of digging I still don't know who graded the killyou coin.

Dave's logic behind making this more public --> Anything we can do to help remove scammers is good. Anything we can do to make scammers lives more difficult is good. If a new person does not know and does not look to find out that's on them.  If they don't know and we do but don't tell them and make it difficult to find out, that's on us.

Counter argument --> We are not your mom. It's not our job.  

Sorry for the rambling, but someone on the silver forum just did a test with PCGS grading and it ended...poorly...lets leave it at that.

-Dave


  Look at the thread I made https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3315347.0

 Also look at the Sol Noctis fake that was graded.

  You can also dig in here for any coin... another thread of mine https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5130318.0

  And here are the killyou graded coins https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2654522.0

  Graded Satori Chips https://www.ebay.ca/itm/2017-Satori-Japan-0-001-BTC-BCH-Bitcoin-Token-PRE-FORK-Poker-Chip-ANACS-MS-69-/202665545278?oid=163612737442

  Great comments all around on your post by the way.

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May 03, 2019, 02:39:55 PM
Merited by krogothmanhattan (1)
 #25

  b) Do not trust the grading that much after I saw them grade a killyou, satori chips and fake coins.

This just came up in a different forum about regular silver coins.

Short version:
Do we need a "graded reliable" and "graded unreliable"

Long version:
Do we need / should we have a discussion out here in public, probably on a separate thread about the "quality" or "accuracy" of coin grading houses in regard to cryptos?
If we know "A" will grade something that has been driven over by a UPS truck with a MS65 but "B" will kick it back to you with a comment of *hell no* scribbled on the receipt should this information be more accessible?

As krogothmanhattan said about checking the load of a coin. Caveat Emptor!  BUT, if without digging through 100s of posts it becomes almost impossible. Even with a bit of digging I still don't know who graded the killyou coin.

Dave's logic behind making this more public --> Anything we can do to help remove scammers is good. Anything we can do to make scammers lives more difficult is good. If a new person does not know and does not look to find out that's on them.  If they don't know and we do but don't tell them and make it difficult to find out, that's on us.

Counter argument --> We are not your mom. It's not our job. 

Sorry for the rambling, but someone on the silver forum just did a test with PCGS grading and it ended...poorly...lets leave it at that.

-Dave

For me frankly, coming from the world for collectibles of Gold and Silver coins. PCGS and NGC are the benchmark, certain people do like ANACS due to their historical presence, but ICG is used by some small time dealers who like to scam collectors by showing higher grade. To me ICG is just there to make money from the items that PCGS and NGC don't accept or get rejected or grade extremely poor. I would rather have my coins in original packaging than sending to ICG.

Coming on this forum lot of people convinced me that ICG was infact great but one of the coins I recently received which was MS69 from ICG, looking at it closer at the coin store with some high tech devices, it couldn't be more than 60 or 62 that too if PCGS or NGC are even accepting these coins.


Another concern I have specially with loaded coins that gets graded, specially a company like ICG, I don't think they have the expertise like some of our forum members(krogothmanhattan, MJ, and few more) in checking the holograms seals and all. If I peel off the hologram unload the coin, stick back the hologram, do you think ICG will catch it everytime? I don't think so. This is one of the reason they are saying on their slabs that they don't guarantee or check for the loaded value.

I am sorry my fellow collectors, it might be bitter truth about ICG, but it's true, you can cross check that at any of your local coin dealers.

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May 03, 2019, 02:45:10 PM
 #26

  b) Do not trust the grading that much after I saw them grade a killyou, satori chips and fake coins.

This just came up in a different forum about regular silver coins.

Short version:
Do we need a "graded reliable" and "graded unreliable"

Long version:
Do we need / should we have a discussion out here in public, probably on a separate thread about the "quality" or "accuracy" of coin grading houses in regard to cryptos?
If we know "A" will grade something that has been driven over by a UPS truck with a MS65 but "B" will kick it back to you with a comment of *hell no* scribbled on the receipt should this information be more accessible?

As krogothmanhattan said about checking the load of a coin. Caveat Emptor!  BUT, if without digging through 100s of posts it becomes almost impossible. Even with a bit of digging I still don't know who graded the killyou coin.

Dave's logic behind making this more public --> Anything we can do to help remove scammers is good. Anything we can do to make scammers lives more difficult is good. If a new person does not know and does not look to find out that's on them.  If they don't know and we do but don't tell them and make it difficult to find out, that's on us.

Counter argument --> We are not your mom. It's not our job. 

Sorry for the rambling, but someone on the silver forum just did a test with PCGS grading and it ended...poorly...lets leave it at that.

-Dave

For me frankly, coming from the world for collectibles of Gold and Silver coins. PCGS and NGC are the benchmark, certain people do like ANACS due to their historical presence, but ICG is used by some small time dealers who like to scam collectors by showing higher grade. To me ICG is just there to make money from the items that PCGS and NGC don't accept or get rejected or grade extremely poor. I would rather have my coins in original packaging than sending to ICG.

Coming on this forum lot of people convinced me that ICG was infact great but one of the coins I recently received which was MS69 from ICG, looking at it closer at the coin store with some high tech devices, it couldn't be more than 60 or 62 that too if PCGS or NGC are even accepting these coins.


Another concern I have specially with loaded coins that gets graded, specially a company like ICG, I don't think they have the expertise like some of our forum members(krogothmanhattan, MJ, and few more) in checking the holograms seals and all. If I peel off the hologram unload the coin, stick back the hologram, do you think ICG will catch it everytime? I don't think so. This is one of the reason they are saying on their slabs that they don't guarantee or check for the loaded value.

I am sorry my fellow collectors, it might be bitter truth about ICG, but it's true, you can cross check that at any of your local coin dealers.

You're not wrong. PCGS and NGC are absolutely the pinnacle of coin graders..but they won't touch our coins..yet (I'm working on them). ICG and ANACS are honestly more of a "hold over" for me. Neither are up there w/NGC or PCGS but at least they're grading our coins. It's nice to have your coin graded, though I like it more so just as a great capsule to protect my coins with a side benefit of grading that is "mostly accurate". If NGC or PCGS did ever start grading, I'd crack my coins out of the other graders and get them re-graded.
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May 03, 2019, 03:00:48 PM
 #27

  b) Do not trust the grading that much after I saw them grade a killyou, satori chips and fake coins.

This just came up in a different forum about regular silver coins.

Short version:
Do we need a "graded reliable" and "graded unreliable"

Long version:
Do we need / should we have a discussion out here in public, probably on a separate thread about the "quality" or "accuracy" of coin grading houses in regard to cryptos?
If we know "A" will grade something that has been driven over by a UPS truck with a MS65 but "B" will kick it back to you with a comment of *hell no* scribbled on the receipt should this information be more accessible?

As krogothmanhattan said about checking the load of a coin. Caveat Emptor!  BUT, if without digging through 100s of posts it becomes almost impossible. Even with a bit of digging I still don't know who graded the killyou coin.

Dave's logic behind making this more public --> Anything we can do to help remove scammers is good. Anything we can do to make scammers lives more difficult is good. If a new person does not know and does not look to find out that's on them.  If they don't know and we do but don't tell them and make it difficult to find out, that's on us.

Counter argument --> We are not your mom. It's not our job. 

Sorry for the rambling, but someone on the silver forum just did a test with PCGS grading and it ended...poorly...lets leave it at that.

-Dave

For me frankly, coming from the world for collectibles of Gold and Silver coins. PCGS and NGC are the benchmark, certain people do like ANACS due to their historical presence, but ICG is used by some small time dealers who like to scam collectors by showing higher grade. To me ICG is just there to make money from the items that PCGS and NGC don't accept or get rejected or grade extremely poor. I would rather have my coins in original packaging than sending to ICG.

Coming on this forum lot of people convinced me that ICG was infact great but one of the coins I recently received which was MS69 from ICG, looking at it closer at the coin store with some high tech devices, it couldn't be more than 60 or 62 that too if PCGS or NGC are even accepting these coins.


Another concern I have specially with loaded coins that gets graded, specially a company like ICG, I don't think they have the expertise like some of our forum members(krogothmanhattan, MJ, and few more) in checking the holograms seals and all. If I peel off the hologram unload the coin, stick back the hologram, do you think ICG will catch it everytime? I don't think so. This is one of the reason they are saying on their slabs that they don't guarantee or check for the loaded value.

I am sorry my fellow collectors, it might be bitter truth about ICG, but it's true, you can cross check that at any of your local coin dealers.

You're not wrong. PCGS and NGC are absolutely the pinnacle of coin graders..but they won't touch our coins..yet (I'm working on them). ICG and ANACS are honestly more of a "hold over" for me. Neither are up there w/NGC or PCGS but at least they're grading our coins. It's nice to have your coin graded, though I like it more so just as a great capsule to protect my coins with a side benefit of grading that is "mostly accurate". If NGC or PCGS did ever start grading, I'd crack my coins out of the other graders and get them re-graded.

If you really want to store them in a nice holder, why waste your money for grading, plenty of other exact same holders available to store the coins safely. But I do see your point it's a matter for satisfaction for few.


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May 03, 2019, 03:04:40 PM
 #28

Just the simple fact I have to send my coins to be graded thru a postal system or courier for that matter and there is a chance damage or loss can happen, makes me shudder!

Never gonna happen with my coins. Locked away they are and locked away they shall stay. Or buried  Wink

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Agrawas
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May 03, 2019, 03:13:36 PM
 #29

Just the simple fact I have to send my coins to be graded thru a postal system or courier for that matter and there is a chance damage or loss can happen, makes me shudder!

Never gonna happen with my coins. Locked away they are and locked away they shall stay. Or buried  Wink

Got an address for where they are locked up??  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

YOUR KEYS, YOUR COINS   ----  https://efin.cx/?rc=NUQON

Love to GAMBLE?? ---- Try https://www.cryptobet.com/register/LAJ_QTQOM

You want more details about TokenPay, Efin, Cryptobet, the whole ecosystem and their partnerships, ping me..
DaveF
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May 03, 2019, 03:36:38 PM
Last edit: May 03, 2019, 04:01:41 PM by DaveF
 #30

And this does kind of prove my point Smiley
To find opinions of graders you have to go to page 2 of a discussion about definitions.
To then find out more specific information on things that ANACS has graded you have to click on one of the links that krogoth put in his reply.
There is no place that really says new people click here.
Anybody want to buy an original Ravenbit sticker. It's graded DF68


-Dave






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Agrawas
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It's all about BTC


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May 03, 2019, 03:51:36 PM
 #31

Just the simple fact I have to send my coins to be graded thru a postal system or courier for that matter and there is a chance damage or loss can happen, makes me shudder!

Never gonna happen with my coins. Locked away they are and locked away they shall stay. Or buried  Wink

Got an address for where they are locked up??  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

  Sure I do..but your gonna have to go thru me first...and believe me son...you don't wanna have to go thru a guy like me. Wink

  Nothing will ever take away my precious   Angry
  

You calling me son and not willing to share the wealth??  Sad Sad Sad Wink Wink Wink Wink Grin Grin Grin Grin

P.S. will delete all these useless but fun comments after 24hrs if people like, since they are not related to the topic..

YOUR KEYS, YOUR COINS   ----  https://efin.cx/?rc=NUQON

Love to GAMBLE?? ---- Try https://www.cryptobet.com/register/LAJ_QTQOM

You want more details about TokenPay, Efin, Cryptobet, the whole ecosystem and their partnerships, ping me..
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