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Author Topic: The current permaban situation is ridiculous  (Read 886 times)
kenzo tamasaki
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May 14, 2019, 02:38:23 AM
 #1

From what I can see, around 900+ members got banned accused of "plagiarism/spam", with a generic message and no source of what triggered the ban to make a proper appeal, appeal which will never even be addressed anyway.

Why aren't the ban messages including clear links pointing to what caused the ban as one would expect out of sanity? You are asking for people to appeal to some generic message.

On the log there's only "autoban" without any more details for most people.

Many valuable members got banned for life and we cannot contact them again as we only talked across PM. Banned for life for what's most likely some bullshit reason done years ago which does not justify a permaban weighting in the contributions for the forum. Unless you started an expert, everyone's posting history was pretty lame at the beginning. Someone in power that wants to harm you will find something across 1000's of posts to ban you. Since they don't need to give details they can freely banhammerize anyone they please, ruining your account for life and everything that it means for the people that spent ages here.

If you are going to permaban someone, at least have the decency to quote exactly what triggered something as harsh as a permaban.

This is most likely a tool for someone in charge to get rid of people they don't like anyway.
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Vod
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May 14, 2019, 02:45:35 AM
 #2

Why aren't the ban messages including clear links pointing to what caused the ban as one would expect out of sanity? You are asking for people to appeal to some generic message.

Explained (quite recently) - too much extra work for the hundreds of automated accounts being banned...

Write a bot to help!  Maybe you'll get a paid mod position...  Smiley

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kenzo tamasaki
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May 14, 2019, 02:51:28 AM
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Why aren't the ban messages including clear links pointing to what caused the ban as one would expect out of sanity? You are asking for people to appeal to some generic message.

Explained (quite recently) - too much extra work for the hundreds of automated accounts being banned...

So you run some sort of bot that automatically bans accounts and you don't even double check manually that it makes sense? If something is automated to auto-ban, then it can be automated to include what it caused it to autoban within the ban message as well.

What's too much work is spending years here, generating good content for the forum, making connections with people, then have your account banned because some bullshit automated bot ran by someone lazy enough to not quote reason of bans, then get sent into a weird ass looking email which theymos will never read, appealing something you don't know because there are no details. Unbeliable.
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May 14, 2019, 02:58:44 AM
 #4

So you run some sort of bot that automatically bans accounts and you don't even double check manually that it makes sense? If something is automated to auto-ban, then it can be automated to include what it caused it to autoban within the ban message as well.

So write something then!   All the new developments is taking place in the new software.

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btcsmlcmnr
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May 14, 2019, 03:08:13 AM
 #5

It is a sad period for someone who have perma-bans due to only a single plagiarism in the past, but for users whom actually repeatedly plagiarised, I think that they won't have chance to complain and come back.

Now, with such a ridiculous perma ban period, please spend your time to code a bot to create Ban Appeals (with template of Ban Appeals). Lazy guys can use the template easily and only have to change ID or username to finish their Ban Appeals. The question OP should consider is using the Ban Appeal Template results in another plagiarism or not. Think of it before coding such a bot. Lazy guys whom perma-banned might support and use it.  Wink
kenzo tamasaki
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May 14, 2019, 03:14:06 AM
 #6

So you run some sort of bot that automatically bans accounts and you don't even double check manually that it makes sense? If something is automated to auto-ban, then it can be automated to include what it caused it to autoban within the ban message as well.

So write something then!   All the new developments is taking place in the new software.

It is a sad period for someone who have perma-bans due to only a single plagiarism in the past, but for users whom actually repeatedly plagiarised, I think that they won't have chance to complain and come back.

Now, with such a ridiculous perma ban period, please spend your time to code a bot to create Ban Appeals (with template of Ban Appeals). Lazy guys can use the template easily and only have to change ID or username to finish their Ban Appeals. The question OP should consider is using the Ban Appeal Template results in another plagiarism or not. Think of it before coding such a bot. Lazy guys whom perma-banned might support and use it.  Wink

Why would you work for free helping a forum that doesn't give a fuck about their users? We've had people waiting literally for years trying to recover their accounts which were hacked and now this. And it isn't like many of the people in charge here aren't rich and with the proper resources to get all of that fixed. But let me spend my (non nonexistent) free time fixing it myself while under the fear of losing your account permanently because you posted the wrong thing 7 years ago.
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May 14, 2019, 03:15:16 AM
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 #7

Unless you started an expert, everyone's posting history was pretty lame at the beginning.
I didn't start out as an expert, and I'm still nowhere near an expert--but I did not begin my time on bitcointalk plagiarizing other people's words.  That's the reason why most of these members are being banned for offenses committed months to years ago, not spam.  Members rarely get banned for spam anyway.

If you are going to permaban someone, at least have the decency to quote exactly what triggered something as harsh as a permaban.
I've suggested that a number of times, but it's never been implemented.  There are problems with the suggestion as well.  For one thing, most banned members know exactly what they did and are playing dumb when they start an appeal thread.  They just want the mods or other members to jump through hoops looking for examples of plagiarism. 

Second, banned members are still going to create appeals threads in which they're going to make excuses, plead for mercy, and blah blah blah.  Even if they got a PM upon receiving a permaban that showed exactly what they did wrong, it probably wouldn't make much of a difference.

Let's face it:  most people here are just wasting bandwidth and burying good posts under a mountain of shit.  That's why the Bitcoin/Altcoin Discussion sections aren't worth reading--and those ought to be some of the best sections here. 

I'm grateful the mods are kicking some ass right now, because bitcointalk definitely needs a good house cleaning.

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May 14, 2019, 03:16:23 AM
 #8

Why would you work for free helping a forum that doesn't give a fuck about their users?

Because, as I just posted, you could be offered a paid mod position.  Smiley

This forum cares about legit users - not spammers.  I've made 17,000+ posts and never needed to plagiarize once!

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May 14, 2019, 03:17:34 AM
 #9

Why would you work for free helping a forum that doesn't give a fuck about their users? We've had people waiting literally for years trying to recover their accounts which were hacked and now this. And it isn't like many of the people in charge here aren't rich and with the proper resources to get all of that fixed.

It's the other way around. Many users work for free to help clean forum from the leeching spammers who can't be bothered to do the one thing they should be doing here - discuss stuff like normal people, and not copy-paste garbage.

kenzo tamasaki
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May 14, 2019, 03:23:03 AM
 #10

Unless you started an expert, everyone's posting history was pretty lame at the beginning.
I didn't start out as an expert, and I'm still nowhere near an expert--but I did not begin my time on bitcointalk plagiarizing other people's words.  That's the reason why most of these members are being banned for offenses committed months to years ago, not spam.  Members rarely get banned for spam anyway.

If you are going to permaban someone, at least have the decency to quote exactly what triggered something as harsh as a permaban.
I've suggested that a number of times, but it's never been implemented.  There are problems with the suggestion as well.  For one thing, most banned members know exactly what they did and are playing dumb when they start an appeal thread.  They just want the mods or other members to jump through hoops looking for examples of plagiarism.  

Second, banned members are still going to create appeals threads in which they're going to make excuses, plead for mercy, and blah blah blah.  Even if they got a PM upon receiving a permaban that showed exactly what they did wrong, it probably wouldn't make much of a difference.

Let's face it:  most people here are just wasting bandwidth and burying good posts under a mountain of shit.  That's why the Bitcoin/Altcoin Discussion sections aren't worth reading--and those ought to be some of the best sections here.  

I'm grateful the mods are kicking some ass right now, because bitcointalk definitely needs a good house cleaning.

There's *no fucking way* anyone that has spent here years and has 1000+ comments knows from memory every single post they made. Im sure most of these cases genuinely don't know what they are banned for.
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May 14, 2019, 03:25:34 AM
 #11

There's *no fucking way* anyone that has spent here years and has 1000+ comments knows from memory every single post they made. Im sure most of these cases genuinely don't know what they are banned for.

Most auto banned users are brand new spammers.   

The second point: you are most likely incorrect.

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btcsmlcmnr
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May 14, 2019, 03:27:38 AM
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because you posted the wrong thing 7 years ago.
Did you mean that if someone plagiarise today or two months ago, they are deserved with perma bans, whilst someone whom did it years ago should be considered as innocent. Plagiarism comes from copy & paste. Which forces lead to copy & paste (lack of time, stealing other ideas, lazy to compose own posts, financial benefits by stealing other ideas)?

Another point is there are actually second chances for good users, even they plagiarised in the past. Admin, actually made perma-banned users second chances if they have good net-effects. If not, admin say no with any second chance.
If you, yourself, think that you are not quality enough to take such a second chance given by admin. It's your second fault (after the first one - past plagiarism), not admin's.
kenzo tamasaki
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May 14, 2019, 03:34:06 AM
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There's *no fucking way* anyone that has spent here years and has 1000+ comments knows from memory every single post they made. Im sure most of these cases genuinely don't know what they are banned for.

Most auto banned users are brand new spammers.   

The second point: you are most likely incorrect.


No way. If you got banned with that generic message, you wouldn't know what happened because you have thousands of posts. Same for anyone that has 1000+ posts.

Can you at least confirm if there is an actual bot filling permabans? and who thought that was a good idea?


because you posted the wrong thing 7 years ago.
Did you mean that if someone plagiarise today or two months ago, they are deserved with perma bans, whilst someone whom did it years ago should be considered as innocent. Plagiarism comes from copy & paste. Which forces lead to copy & paste (lack of time, stealing other ideas, lazy to compose own posts, financial benefits by stealing other ideas)?
Another point is there are actually second chances for good users, even they plagiarised in the past. Admin, actually made perma-banned users second chances if they have good net-effects. If not, admin say no with any second chance.

All im saying is that it is nuts that a bot is filling permabans. Or in general permabanning (specially Hero+ members) with a generic message. This will only fill the meta section with people asking what happened because theymos never replies anyway.
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May 14, 2019, 03:46:10 AM
 #14

All im saying is that it is nuts that a bot is filling permabans.

Stop repeating that nonsense. No one is getting banned by a bot.

And the type of plagiarism users are getting banned for is mostly blatant literal copy-pasta. Ban "appeals" here mostly ask one question: how did you catch me [so that I could avoid it with my other alts]? Very rarely there is any real acknowledgement of wrongdoing, lots of excuses though.

Which of your 3 accounts got caught?

I have 3 Sr Member accounts in this forum.

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May 14, 2019, 03:50:09 AM
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No way. If you got banned with that generic message, you wouldn't know what happened because you have thousands of posts. Same for anyone that has 1000+ posts.

I would prob get some attention, because I am not in a sig campaign.  But most people that are banned have posts like this garbage.  No one should spend time investigating that.


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btcsmlcmnr
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May 14, 2019, 04:06:38 AM
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All im saying is that it is nuts that a bot is filling permabans. Or in general permabanning (specially Hero+ members) with a generic message. This will only fill the meta section with people asking what happened because theymos never replies anyway.
What I know is Permanent bans handled manually and carefully, not by bots. Maybe someone actually created a bot to find plagiarism and reports all cases that his or her bot found, that caused nearly thousand of bans recent days. Nevertheless, perma-bans handled manually, not by forum bots.
In addition, you should read do this first.
2. Self-checking your past posts for plagiarism
You should do this before moving to the third step. Because it is your case, so you have a responsibility to self-check all of your past posts to find out that you actually plagiarised or not. If the self-check results show you actually plagiarsised, and if you did not contribute anything to the forum in the past, your story should stop in the second step.
Please copying and pasting each of your past posts into Search Box of Google Search, then enter. You finally will find your plagiarism in the past.
It might take you half of a day to finish your self-check.
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May 14, 2019, 04:10:29 AM
 #17

Any established member, good trust or horrible trust, deserves at least an explanation of the ban. It is standard practice for *any* banning of accounts anywhere to give a valid explanation of the account ban.

It's understandable since there's so many to do every day, but established members deserve it.

Vod
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May 14, 2019, 04:17:11 AM
 #18

It's understandable since there's so many to do every day, but established members deserve it.

Agreed.  But these one or two post bots don't deserve a single IP packet wasted on them. 

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May 14, 2019, 04:23:54 AM
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 #19

All plagiarism bans are human-checked.

There's *no fucking way* anyone that has spent here years and has 1000+ comments knows from memory every single post they made. Im sure most of these cases genuinely don't know what they are banned for.

You should know that you haven't plagiarized because you would never do such a thing.

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kenzo tamasaki
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May 14, 2019, 05:25:13 AM
 #20

All plagiarism bans are human-checked.

There's *no fucking way* anyone that has spent here years and has 1000+ comments knows from memory every single post they made. Im sure most of these cases genuinely don't know what they are banned for.

You should know that you haven't plagiarized because you would never do such a thing.

If its not automated how come there was a massive 1000 ish ban at once? each case has a different context, doubt you had the time to check it out with such a short amount of time with so many bans.
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