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Author Topic: Any managers lost good posters due recent mass ban?  (Read 979 times)
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May 17, 2019, 07:25:19 PM
 #21

People will still complain. Seen a couple already (or alts/friends of users). They may have had the death sentence overturned but they've still got a year or two in jail and that's going to be a loss of earnings for a year as well which will be the only motivation many people who get caught plagiarising are here for. Many will still be happy to have access to their accounts but for the vast majority of people they're probably only here to earn so it's as good as or at least for the duration of their ban. I can't see many people who get a ban sticking around and posting much when they can't monetise doing so. Maybe a few posts here and there to collect activity and keep the account ticking over but more often than not I'd bet most accounts will become very inactive unless they have other business here.

Mind boggling but I've seen similar tantrums thrown in real life, generally resulting in a harsher penalty. Unfortunately I agree with you, and the ones who are here solely for the earnings will probably be back under some guise whether their account is jailed or dead. I am hoping that in the same way Cryptios is handling accounts they may catch a few ban evasions while their at it (I have no idea how difficult this would be). Sad fact is that a lot of these accounts might change hands over the next 2 years because they can be sold as "broken with potential to earn". I try to focus more on the brightspots though, that have received leniency and are back like nothing happened (minus signature) contributing to the community.
For me, it's just a mistake, they should verify when does the plagiarism happen. Those legendaries and heroes are already contributed a lot of threads that might help the future generation of this community. They will be forgotten forever because of a single mistake that happened at the beginning of your journey. Well, if that's the decision of the higher-ups, we can't do anything but follow and be a responsible member of this community.

That's what is happening. I believe at least one user received their temp ban and signature ban instantly as opposed to having to appeal. Then if you check around you can see users receiving their sentences reduced after review. It's actually working out rather well from what I can see.


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May 17, 2019, 08:32:26 PM
 #22

Interesting. By the logic proposed here, known old alt accounts should get a red tag too since "the early days are different" reason is not acceptable.
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May 18, 2019, 02:30:03 AM
 #23

I saw some good posters that are unban, they are still good posters even without signature.
This is a kind action by the mods in the forum, and with the number of members here in the forum, I don't think campaign managers will not be able to find good posters. People change, there are people that are shit posters and become decent posters, and vice versa.

For me, I don't see this a major problem of the campaign manager as they can hire limited participants with increase number of post.

 
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May 18, 2019, 08:14:34 AM
 #24

Then if you check around you can see users receiving their sentences reduced after review. It's actually working out rather well from what I can see.
Then, now they (unbanned users) started to ask for reduce sentences of their signature bans. It is a basic greedy instinct of human. We might see a new wave of suggestion topics on reduction of signature ban period. Tongue




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May 18, 2019, 09:50:56 AM
 #25

Then if you check around you can see users receiving their sentences reduced after review. It's actually working out rather well from what I can see.
Then, now they (unbanned users) started to ask for reduce sentences of their signature bans. It is a basic greedy instinct of human. We might see a new wave of suggestion topics on reduction of signature ban period. Tongue

I think at the very least state the reason why the account has been banned?  I always see posts asking why their old account has been banned from the forum (hence I assume that no one will state the reason of banning your account the moment you are banned?)

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May 18, 2019, 01:38:52 PM
 #26

Interesting. By the logic proposed here, known old alt accounts should get a red tag too since "the early days are different" reason is not acceptable.

There is no rule ever regarding Alt accounts. If you mean Alt accounts should have the same Bans imposed then I agree, anything less is Ban evasion. There is nothing stating that in the early days Plagiarism was acceptable, it was less of an issue and not monetized afaik.

Then, now they (unbanned users) started to ask for reduce sentences of their signature bans. It is a basic greedy instinct of human. We might see a new wave of suggestion topics on reduction of signature ban period. Tongue

We've already seen one, though it wasn't started by a banned user. I believe maybe because some of their chums received the reduced sentence and they still found it harsh.

I think at the very least state the reason why the account has been banned?  I always see posts asking why their old account has been banned from the forum (hence I assume that no one will state the reason of banning your account the moment you are banned?)

They do receive the basic message stating "plagiarism or spam". I've seen it mentioned by a Global Mod that it is to labor intensive to give everyone a reference to why they are banned. So for the ones who do create an appeal I've seen staff chime in with why they were banned. Don't forget a lot of those posts wondering why are people who know exactly what they did who try to play some sympathy card or give an improbable explanation.

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May 18, 2019, 03:34:18 PM
 #27

The current ban of 60 days and 2 years sig ban is appropriate and it's OK for users who did the mistake years ago but I don't like the excuse that they were new in the forum and so it was OK according to them to copy another member's post just to rank up. That's the most silly excuse as none of them are 3-year-old kids. It's just copying in the exam and giving the excuse that they did it to get more marks. There's no one who doesn't know such a simple thing. It's a different thing if they posted a news article and forgot to add a reference but not those copy-paste posts. They can't be considered "good posters".
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May 19, 2019, 11:04:30 PM
 #28

The current ban of 60 days and 2 years sig ban is appropriate and it's OK for users who did the mistake years ago but I don't like the excuse that they were new in the forum and so it was OK according to them to copy another member's post just to rank up. That's the most silly excuse as none of them are 3-year-old kids. It's just copying in the exam and giving the excuse that they did it to get more marks. There's no one who doesn't know such a simple thing. It's a different thing if they posted a news article and forgot to add a reference but not those copy-paste posts. They can't be considered "good posters".
Some banned users even received alternative with only one-year signature ban. I think it is a fair alternative for death-penalty (permanent ban), so I don't think it is appropriate to ask for another reduced sentence with signature ban. Someone whom ask for such signature ban reduction might see more serious things occur, and I believe they don't expect such more serious sentence after come back from death. Let's use that one or two years to rank up if they have been in lower rank (Senior members, for example). Using one or two years of signature ban to more effectively matured in knowledge, and skils by less distraction from signature and signature benefits. Generally, things will become better if we look at them in positive perspectives.




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May 20, 2019, 07:18:36 AM
 #29

Cellard was a great member of this forum, I'm not certain if he was promoting any of the project. Another user bill gator is too banned till 2021, he was promoting Chipmixer. These are only signature ban.

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May 20, 2019, 10:33:53 AM
 #30

....  I don't like the excuse that they were new in the forum and so it was OK according to them to copy another member's post just to rank up.

I believe plagiarism is a crime on intellectual property and an offence on the forum. It would have been an easy rank up with the old ranking system of 14 activities every two weeks, that was really a free ride  Grin.

However, such plagiarized ranking up wouldn't have been possible now with the merit system, just thousands of post counts amounting to nothing.

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May 20, 2019, 11:16:41 AM
 #31

Cellard was a great member of this forum, I'm not certain if he was promoting any of the project. Another user bill gator is too banned till 2021, he was promoting Chipmixer. These are only signature ban.
I don't know the user Cellard but I didn't expect that even bill gator will be banned too (unless this is fake). He is very active in this section and I remember his thread that he will give sMerits. Now nobody is exempted. Anybody who did break the rules even it is 5-6 years ago will be banned Cheesy

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May 20, 2019, 01:09:15 PM
 #32

I don't know the user Cellard but I didn't expect that even bill gator will be banned too (unless this is fake). He is very active in this section and I remember his thread that he will give sMerits. Now nobody is exempted. Anybody who did break the rules even it is 5-6 years ago will be banned Cheesy
It's not fake, he is banned. I have seen in one of the threads listing the recent ban appeal and the result. Later, I have had checked his profile too.
Check his profile- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=370611

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May 20, 2019, 01:39:19 PM
 #33

I don't know the user Cellard but I didn't expect that even bill gator will be banned too (unless this is fake). He is very active in this section and I remember his thread that he will give sMerits. Now nobody is exempted. Anybody who did break the rules even it is 5-6 years ago will be banned Cheesy
It's not fake, he is banned. I have seen in one of the threads listing the recent ban appeal and the result. Later, I have had checked his profile too.
Check his profile- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=370611

But he has not got a 60 days ban as per BPIP like others so it seems now only signature bans are being issued for members who have proved themselves? It seems unfair if we are considering the same crime and the punishment is different for all members.

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May 20, 2019, 01:40:35 PM
 #34

But he has not got a 60 days ban as per BPIP like others so it seems now only signature bans are being issued for members who have proved themselves? It seems unfair if we are considering the same crime and the punishment is different for all members.

BPIP doesn't show temp bans.

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May 20, 2019, 02:17:00 PM
 #35


But he has not got a 60 days ban as per BPIP like others so it seems now only signature bans are being issued for members who have proved themselves? It seems unfair if we are considering the same crime and the punishment is different for all members.


I have created a thread few days ago, from my observation, not all the banned users have had copied intentionally. bill gator is a good member of the forum. Newbies have much to learn from member member like them. Therefore, I support punishment to be reduced for some members.

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May 20, 2019, 03:24:45 PM
 #36

BPIP doesn't show temp bans.
Modlog does not show temp bans and signature bans, so that is why BPIP does not show such information on temporary bans and signature bans.
Yes, it is fair because only good users, with good net-effects will have chance to get temp bans & signature bans as alternatives of permanent bans due to plagiarism. So, it's true that there are limited cases will get such chances because there are unsignificant users get good net-effects. Even they are good net-effective users, if they did plagiarsim from time to time, their chances will be reduced.
But he has not got a 60 days ban as per BPIP like others so it seems now only signature bans are being issued for members who have proved themselves? It seems unfair if we are considering the same crime and the punishment is different for all members.




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May 20, 2019, 03:48:55 PM
 #37

BPIP doesn't show temp bans.
Ok, did not know that.


Modlog does not show temp bans and signature bans, so that is why BPIP does not show such information on temporary bans and signature bans.
Yes, it is fair because only good users, with good net-effects will have chance to get temp bans & signature bans as alternatives of permanent bans due to plagiarism. So, it's true that there are limited cases will get such chances because there are unsignificant users get good net-effects. Even they are good net-effective users, if they did plagiarsim from time to time, their chances will be reduced.

I said that the punishment is not fair if a temp-ban has also not been issued and it's just limited to signature ban. I was always for a temp ban and signature ban instead of a permanent ban if users have done this years ago and only once. The others who have been doing it in the past and even now deserve the perm-ban.
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May 20, 2019, 11:13:59 PM
 #38

I said that the punishment is not fair if a temp-ban has also not been issued and it's just limited to signature ban. I was always for a temp ban and signature ban instead of a permanent ban if users have done this years ago and only once. The others who have been doing it in the past and even now deserve the perm-ban.
You should read the newest post of theymos on recent banwave. Which kind of alternative for permanent ban will be decided for specific cases after manually handle. It's not the same for all, even case got permanent ban without signature ban. It's the point, and means that we have very flexible alternative for permanent ban.
Merely forgetting to quote things is not plagiarism, and if we read it that way, you probably won't be banned at all. For it to plagiarism, you have to have the intention of passing the text off as an original work by you. In all of these recent cases (unless we make a mistake, which is rare), it's extremely obvious in context that the person is copy/pasting to make money. Usually they're copy/pasting someone else's post and not adding anything else, in fact, which makes it very clear. Here's the most recent one:
I really like how the project is developed, we hope to get very far and that.Everything goes well and the group of developers keep us posted on everything.
I really like how the project is developed, we hope to get very far and that.Everything goes well and the group of developers keep us posted on everything

All of the recent cases are ~exactly like this, since this is what the bot looks for. (Thank you to the bot designer!)

If at any point you had a mindset where you'd treat the forum like a dumping ground by worthlessly copy/pasting other people's posts in order to make a tiny amount of money, then my default reaction is GTFO, and you have quite an uphill battle to earn even a 2-year sigban instead. No warnings, no statute of limitations.

I know of one case where someone was banned for plagiarism in the recent massacre, but a very careful reading of the context showed that the person actually did just forget to quote, and by "quoting" the post they were expressing an actual point even if it constituted their entire post. This person was unbanned without any sigban, since this isn't plagiarism.




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May 21, 2019, 08:07:30 AM
 #39

Cellard was a great member of this forum, I'm not certain if he was promoting any of the project. Another user bill gator is too banned till 2021, he was promoting Chipmixer. These are only signature ban.
The question is, how come dudes with an outstanding reputation like them did plagiarism?

About the signature campaign, I think this mass ban only remove a small percentage of participants. I doubt it will affect the forum's dynamic since managers could quickly get new campaign participants.

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May 21, 2019, 08:53:54 AM
 #40

The question is, how come dudes with an outstanding reputation like them did plagiarism?
The posts they got banned for were probably written years ago at a time when the users were relatively inexperienced. The BT unofficial rules were written sometimes in 2014 and if I remember correctly there were cases where users got banned for posts in 2014/2015, Cellard is one of them i think.

Probably a combination of different things that led to the copy/pasting.
Not knowing the rules.
Administration didn't put so much emphasise on plagiarism back in the time because it wasn't as wide spread as it is today.     

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