Which Mixer is getting axed next?

[buwaytress]

By definition, if there is no law that says it is wrong, then it is legal. As there exists no single jurisdiction that has ever specified that Bitcoin mixing is illegal, then mixing is legal anywhere in the known world. So yeah, Ninja's point stands... which law can mixers possibly break? Even if today someone wanted to make it illegal, they'd still have to draft the law, and then get it passed, that's going to take years.

And yeah, what would a legal mixer entail? And what would the point of making your mix legal be, if making it legal means you probably have to disclose a lot of information that would render your mix non-private?

[squatter]

By definition, if there is no law that says it is wrong, then it is legal. As there exists no single jurisdiction that has ever specified that Bitcoin mixing is illegal, then mixing is legal anywhere in the known world. So yeah, Ninja's point stands... which law can mixers possibly break?

That doesn't mean a mixer can't be shut down or the operators arrested. What happens at trial -- or whether the case ever goes to trial -- is a different question. There are no explicit laws about mixing, but court precedents haven't been set regarding whether mixing could be construed as violating various money laundering statutes. That was the implication Dutch police made with Bestmixer.

Unfortunately, police tend to shoot first and ask questions later. That's why Europol is only now "attempt[ing] to determine the extent to which criminal money laundering was used on the site."

[LeGaulois]

Unfortunately, police tend to shoot first and ask questions later. That's why Europol is only now "attempt[ing] to determine the extent to which criminal money laundering was used on the site."

They did it already. This article isn't giving much information, just the minimal to say the site is seized, but there is. They were after Bestmixer since last year and they have been able to estimate its volume transactions, etc.
So for months, maybe the beginning, people were using a broken mixer

[squatter]

Unfortunately, police tend to shoot first and ask questions later. That's why Europol is only now "attempt[ing] to determine the extent to which criminal money laundering was used on the site."

They did it already. This article isn't giving much information, just the minimal to say the site is seized, but there is. They were after Bestmixer since last year and they have been able to estimate its volume transactions, etc.
So for months, maybe the beginning, people were using a broken mixer

Sure, the site may have been compromised. Maybe it was even a honeypot. My point is that there were no criminal charges, not even any confirmed statements that criminal money laundering was occurring on Bestmixer. This shows that despite the lack of lawbreaking, a mixer can be shut down anyway, so this emphasis on the law is sort of pointless.

It reminds me of civil asset forfeiture in the US. The police come and seize all your property, then the burden is on you to prove a legitimate source of funds for all the property before you can claw any of it back. No criminal charges. They just shut you down, take everything you own, and tell you to bring your case to court. The Bestmixer admin isn't going to be filing a legal suit against the Dutch police anytime soon. Neither will any other mixer.

[stadus]

MarkBTC11 seems a little bit confused, we are talking of privacy here, privacy is not a crime, therefore it's right.
If we can call mixer being part of the mixing industry, we have to understand that there are also illegal mixers and that's those who violated the law, legal mixers serves with the right purpose which is to give us the privacy we want.

What exactly makes a mixer "ilegal"? Which laws can they possibly break?

How can we separate a "legal" mixer from an "ilegal" one without tracking the users? Are you saying that people can only mix when they're not buying/selling drugs or doing other shady stuff?

As far as I understand, illegal mixers are those who are close by the regulators, just recently this year we've seen Bestmixer was close, so I think they are doing some illegal activities like money laundering. So to think that there's still a lot of mixers existing until now, I believe they complied with any regulatory compliance they have to or they maybe they are not regulated yet.

For me, using a mixer is kinda risky as any time they can disappear that's why I don't transact a big amount of BTC in one time, just to minimize the risk.

[TryNinja]

As far as I understand, illegal mixers are those who are close by the regulators, just recently this year we've seen Bestmixer was close, so I think they are doing some illegal activities like money laundering. So to think that there's still a lot of mixers existing until now, I believe they complied with any regulatory compliance they have to or they maybe they are not regulated yet.

For me, using a mixer is kinda risky as any time they can disappear that's why I don't transact a big amount of BTC in one time, just to minimize the risk.

Sorry, but I don’t think you know what you are talking about.

Mixers complying with “regulatory compliances”? Regulated mixers? Illegal because they got shutdown?

A mixer receives coins and send coins. They don’t track, nor verify, nor “comply”. Do you even know what is the point of using a mixer? Why do they even exist?

What comes next? Mixers doing KYC? lol