[2019-06-07] India Proposes 10-Yr Jail For Crypto Use, May Introduce own crypto

[gentlemand]

https://www.bloombergquint.com/bq-blue-exclusive/exclusive-india-proposes-10-year-jail-for-cryptocurrency-use-may-introduce-its-own-digital-currency

non paywalled here

https://pastebin.com/GVJUHFbb

Normally you'd dismiss this proposal out of hand a la Russia, but this is India, a country that was willing to buttfuck its very own poor until their entire digestive system collapsed in the name of driving them out of cash.

What do you reckon the odds are?

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[Lucius]

For now, it's just a proposal, but according to what the article says some very important state bodies stand behind this. I think the chances that this proposal passes is more then 50%, just because this is about India which is mostly negatively looking towards cryptocurrency. The fact that they want to make their own crypto just shows that problem is not in crypto, but in finding no way to control it.

Obviously they want to stop progress of cryptocurrency in all possible ways, and even with rather large prison sentences up to 10 years. I do not know if there is a political alternative which has a softer approach toward bitcoin, but if there is, then the only option for a change is in the next elections.

[gentlemand]

For now, it's just a proposal, but according to what the article says some very important state bodies stand behind this.

Indeed. Normally I'd dismiss it as typical crypto press horse shit but the types of people on that committee are those who make things happen.

India is also all too happy to come down as hard as possible on gold so there's a good chance crypto is already dead but doesn't know it yet in India. Ah well. Their loss.

[hatshepsut93]

This sucks, I too think there's a high chance that they will do it, judging by their history with gold, fiat and crypto. What's also bad is that a lot of other countries will take it as a signal and will do the same, this is generally how it often works. And I wonder what will Facebook and other companies who want to roll out their crypto will do - how will they ensure that it can't be used by people in India?
Also, how it will work for visitors? If I owe crypto, but don't take it with me, is it ok to them? Except crypto is just information, it can be in the cloud or in memory, so there might be some loopholes in their new law.

[gentlemand]

What's also bad is that a lot of other countries will take it as a signal and will do the same, this is generally how it often works.

I don't think any other country looks to India on how to run an economy.

I don't know what goes on in the mind of the Indian authorities, but the mass wiping out of bank notes was an assault on millions of innocent people on the breadline. How any responsible and compassionate government could do that is beyond me.

I presume places like Facebook will simply bypass India and by extension the Indian government will impoverish its population even further. Just think about the potential remittances in future that may not reach them because of stuff like this.

[susila_bai]

It is really bad news for the Indian crypto users as even now Localbitcoins site have stopped the cash transaction and imposed the KYC policy which is why now all users have to give their documents to verify and now even they have taken consent confirmation of giving the users details to the government authority when ever asked. So now Indian users have to delete their account so that when the proposal of Jail for crypto users should not affect it.

[Sithara007]

Being an Indian citizen, this news is of real concern to me. In a developed country such as Australia or England, you can expect the Bitcoin user to be given a chance to prove his innocence. But that does not work here. Here the cops are the biggest criminals and just last month there was the news of a Bitcoin trader forced to commit suicide after blackmailing by one police officer. If this legislation is passed, then it is going to be a windfall for the cops.

[Kakmakr]

The people from India should not just sit back and accept things like this from a corrupt government like that, they should use their vote in the next elections and get rid of these bad decision makers.

In any way, Bitcoin is unstoppable and you can still hide ownership of your bitcoins and then spend them online or in another country where they are Bitcoin friendly. I would hoard the coins and then take a Bitcoin holiday in another country and spend money like crazy... Fck them out of taxes, because they do not deserve the taxes on Bitcoin if they ban it. 

[Vishnu.Reang]

The people from India should not just sit back and accept things like this from a corrupt government like that, they should use their vote in the next elections and get rid of these bad decision makers.

The next elections are scheduled for 2024.

But voting for another party is hardly going to bring any change. As far as I know, none of the political parties have supported the idea of legalizing Bitcoin in India. Also, Bitcoin users are not an important voting bloc in India. The most important bloc is composed of the rural farmers, and they voted en bloc for the ruling party during the last elections.

[Slow death]

The people from India should not just sit back and accept things like this from a corrupt government like that, they should use their vote in the next elections and get rid of these bad decision makers.

I thought the same thing, but unfortunately I doubt that the people of India will change the current Indian political scene. One of the biggest problems of the poor countries is it seems that the people do not understand that the wrong political decisions can harm the life of a people. In the case of India with the caste system and with religion they have become a great advantage for politicians to do as they please because they have a divided and somewhat submissive people to the government.


in some time we will hear that this has been approved. as expected from india

[suzanne5223]

https://www.bloombergquint.com/bq-blue-exclusive/exclusive-india-proposes-10-year-jail-for-cryptocurrency-use-may-introduce-its-own-digital-currency

non paywalled here

https://pastebin.com/GVJUHFbb

Normally you'd dismiss this proposal out of hand a la Russia, but this is India, a country that was willing to buttfuck its very own poor until their entire digestive system collapsed in the name of driving them out of cash.

What do you reckon the odds are?

Was unable to finish reading the article but I knew India is a country which has different ethic and belief (religious) long ago and the rules/regulations used a some certain states are not accept or allow in some other States which was also the reason why it hard for crypto currency to be legalized there. However, what I read acoupke of days back is that crypto trading, holding and selling is allow in India and there even a couple of months old exchange site (wazrix) which I think it from there.

Is there something I'm missing?

[gentlemand]

Was unable to finish reading the article but I knew India is a country which has different ethic and belief (religious) long ago and the rules/regulations used a some certain states are not accept or allow in some other States which was also the reason why it hard for crypto currency to be legalized there. However, what I read acoupke of days back is that crypto trading, holding and selling is allow in India and there even a couple of months old exchange site (wazrix) which I think it from there.

Is there something I'm missing?

Nope. It's a proposal, nothing more. However what makes this stand out is the people who are proposing are influential and India's viciousness when it comes to screwing with the financial freedom of their people. It's extreme but the things they've already carried out are extreme.

[Sithara007]

Was unable to finish reading the article but I knew India is a country which has different ethic and belief (religious) long ago and the rules/regulations used a some certain states are not accept or allow in some other States which was also the reason why it hard for crypto currency to be legalized there. However, what I read acoupke of days back is that crypto trading, holding and selling is allow in India and there even a couple of months old exchange site (wazrix) which I think it from there.

Is there something I'm missing?

Nope. It's a proposal, nothing more. However what makes this stand out is the people who are proposing are influential and India's viciousness when it comes to screwing with the financial freedom of their people. It's extreme but the things they've already carried out are extreme.

Back in 2016, almost 90% of the fiat currency was made invalid and for many months after that the people faced extreme difficulty in making payments. The reason given was that the government want to encourage digital transactions and they want to punish the individuals who hold unaccounted money. Almost the entire population was affected by that measure and still the government was voted back to power (with an enlarged majority).

[Lucius]

In any way, Bitcoin is unstoppable and you can still hide ownership of your bitcoins and then spend them online or in another country where they are Bitcoin friendly. I would hoard the coins and then take a Bitcoin holiday in another country and spend money like crazy... Fck them out of taxes, because they do not deserve the taxes on Bitcoin if they ban it. 

I think people do not just have to comply with the laws which limit fundamental human freedoms, and in this case even if you hold some crypto it is a criminal offense - even China does not have such strict laws. If the person is cautious and does not use any official channels for buying / selling crypto, I think it can stay under the radar of authority.

But voting for another party is hardly going to bring any change. As far as I know, none of the political parties have supported the idea of legalizing Bitcoin in India. Also, Bitcoin users are not an important voting bloc in India.

I've already asked a question about the existence of political alternatives, and if there is no real one, then people in India who want changes should take action in this matter. Is it possible that there are no young and educated people to launch a party that would be friendly toward cryptocurrency?

[gentlemand]

Back in 2016, almost 90% of the fiat currency was made invalid and for many months after that the people faced extreme difficulty in making payments. The reason given was that the government want to encourage digital transactions and they want to punish the individuals who hold unaccounted money. Almost the entire population was affected by that measure and still the government was voted back to power (with an enlarged majority).

Indeed. Which is why I think this is much more credible than the average threat. They're just about mindless and nasty enough to do it. If that's what the people want to do to themselves then they're welcome to it.

[buwaytress]

A bit too much noise going on in the past few weeks/months re India and their goings on with crypto. What I'd really like to know about this so-called draft regulation is, who's behind it exactly?

You'd think it's at least got a shade of the central bank but RBI's response this week to a Rights to Information request flat out says they were never involved in it.

So it's just the mysterious government officials... so they're going to jail all their rich guys and Bollywood crypto influencers now?

[Vishnu.Reang]

But voting for another party is hardly going to bring any change. As far as I know, none of the political parties have supported the idea of legalizing Bitcoin in India. Also, Bitcoin users are not an important voting bloc in India.

I've already asked a question about the existence of political alternatives, and if there is no real one, then people in India who want changes should take action in this matter. Is it possible that there are no young and educated people to launch a party that would be friendly toward cryptocurrency?

The vast majority of the Indian population lives in urban slums and rural areas and most of them are ignorant about cryptocurrency. If the government labels Bitcoin as a currency of criminals and tax evaders, then these people will believe the government version without any reservation.

And secondly, I am not sure about the number of active Bitcoin users in India. A conservative estimate would be around 1 million. Out of that, the serious users may number around 100,000. Among this subgroup, I expect at least 80% to fall in line with the government directive and quit the cryptocurrency market. And what we can do with the remaining 20,000 individuals, in a country of 1.4 billion people?

[1Referee]

A bit too much noise going on in the past few weeks/months re India and their goings on with crypto. What I'd really like to know about this so-called draft regulation is, who's behind it exactly?

You'd think it's at least got a shade of the central bank but RBI's response this week to a Rights to Information request flat out says they were never involved in it.

So it's just the mysterious government officials... so they're going to jail all their rich guys and Bollywood crypto influencers now?

I have seen various Indian people on social media say that they aren't aware of this news at all. They're either not following the right local news sources, or this whole story is bogus meant to drag the price down. We have seen various fake news attempts already to manipulate the price and it wouldn't suprise me if this fits in that category too.

Considering that the smart money isn't reacting to this I would say this story is bogus, or the market doesn't care about India, which would be a good outcome in case it turns out to be true. Time will tell.

[Vishnu.Reang]

I have seen various Indian people on social media say that they aren't aware of this news at all. They're either not following the right local news sources, or this whole story is bogus meant to drag the price down. We have seen various fake news attempts already to manipulate the price and it wouldn't suprise me if this fits in that category too.

Considering that the smart money isn't reacting to this I would say this story is bogus, or the market doesn't care about India, which would be a good outcome in case it turns out to be true. Time will tell.

There are two reasons why I believe that this news story is not fake. A few years back, RBI was quite serious about banning Bitcoin. At that point of time, some of the governmental advisers were in favor of this move and some others were opposed to it. Those who were opposed to it ultimately gained the upper hand and convinced the then RBI governor (Urjit Patel) that a ban can't be implemented. But even after that, there have been constant calls from the first camp to revise the policy.

Secondly, this news has appeared in some of the most reliable mainstream media outlets, such as Bloomberg and Money control (the latter is the number one financial website in India).

[gentlemand]

There are two reasons why I believe that this news story is not fake. A few years back, RBI was quite serious about banning Bitcoin. At that point of time, some of the governmental advisers were in favor of this move and some others were opposed to it. Those who were opposed to it ultimately gained the upper hand and convinced the then RBI governor (Urjit Patel) that a ban can't be implemented. But even after that, there have been constant calls from the first camp to revise the policy.

Secondly, this news has appeared in some of the most reliable mainstream media outlets, such as Bloomberg and Money control (the latter is the number one financial website in India).

https://www.coindesk.com/reserve-bank-of-india-denies-involvement-in-draft-bill-to-ban-cryptocurrencies

The RBI is saying they know nothing about this at all. You'd expect them to have a teensy bit of input into something so fundamental. Then again nothing is surprising about politics.

I have seen various Indian people on social media say that they aren't aware of this news at all. They're either not following the right local news sources, or this whole story is bogus meant to drag the price down. We have seen various fake news attempts already to manipulate the price and it wouldn't suprise me if this fits in that category too.

Considering that the smart money isn't reacting to this I would say this story is bogus, or the market doesn't care about India, which would be a good outcome in case it turns out to be true. Time will tell.

No one care what India does. The only time news like this affects things is in regions with strong markets. India has never been one of those regions. There may be lots of people there. Hardly any of them have much to do with BTC.