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Author Topic: [2019-06-07] India Proposes 10-Yr Jail For Crypto Use, May Introduce own crypto  (Read 7816 times)
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June 14, 2019, 11:14:06 AM
Last edit: June 14, 2019, 05:02:59 PM by Carlton Banks
 #41

Hmm. Everyone using BTC would mean putting public expenditure on a public blockchain. This would automatically result in accountability.

sure, if any group is pooling money to subsidize something of which they have joint ownership, they would be wise to keep track of the transactions that take place in the pool


Yet, those with power will always find a way to get paid and they are inherently shielded by the nature of cryptocurrency.  So while bitcoin can solve the problem of Govt and Central Bank monopoly on the value of money, i think it creates additional problems when it comes to corruption. This is why it is easier to target it in a developing country like India.
But yes, targeting BTC for that is a typical diversionary tactic. Its not the tool but the intent of its use which is the problem here.

people in power can't misspend your money if you don't give it to them. so Bitcoin does solve that problem.

if you think that you will give your BTC to corrupt people if (when) they pressurize you, I reiterate: please sell to someone who won't give away their democratic rights to corrupt bullies

Vires in numeris
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June 15, 2019, 10:43:48 AM
 #42

A lot of debate going on here in India about the options we have, in case the Indian government bans the possession of crypto-currency. One of the proposed solution is to have some individual or some organization based outside India to hold the coins for the users. In case the user want to convert the coins to fiat, he can ask that individual to do that and send the money to India as "gift".

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June 15, 2019, 12:36:36 PM
 #43

One of the proposed solution is to have some individual or some organization based outside India to hold the coins for the users. In case the user want to convert the coins to fiat, he can ask that individual to do that and send the money to India as "gift".

But I do not see how it resolves the problem, your coins are still your coins, regardless of whether they are stored on your computer or they are located in another country. If you government know that you have BTC for example in Japan, will this prevent them from punishing you for possession of cryptocurrency?

Also this would be a great security risk for each user, "no private keys, no full control over your coins". So something like this would work only if you have  a very confidential person in other country, who can hold coins for you and sell / buy coins for you. That "gift" part is also not 100% clear, fiat is something that can be very successfully tracked, and if government find source of money it can block your bank account and send you to cold storage for 10 years.

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June 15, 2019, 03:02:05 PM
 #44

One of the proposed solution is to have some individual or some organization based outside India to hold the coins for the users. In case the user want to convert the coins to fiat, he can ask that individual to do that and send the money to India as "gift".

But I do not see how it resolves the problem, your coins are still your coins, regardless of whether they are stored on your computer or they are located in another country. If you government know that you have BTC for example in Japan, will this prevent them from punishing you for possession of cryptocurrency?

Also this would be a great security risk for each user, "no private keys, no full control over your coins". So something like this would work only if you have  a very confidential person in other country, who can hold coins for you and sell / buy coins for you. That "gift" part is also not 100% clear, fiat is something that can be very successfully tracked, and if government find source of money it can block your bank account and send you to cold storage for 10 years.

The draft of new bill doesn't have punitive law for all type of holdings. It specifically mentioned punitive charges if cryptocurrencies are hold for any purpose mentioned under Section 8 of the new bill. So even though new bill comes to existence and trading of cryptocurrencies gets banned in India, Indians still have the options to hold crypto in their personal wallet and sell them via mediums like 'Currency Exchange' section on forum and receive money via PayPal. I don't think that would be considered as offence.

 
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June 16, 2019, 02:43:13 AM
 #45

https://www.bloombergquint.com/bq-blue-exclusive/exclusive-india-proposes-10-year-jail-for-cryptocurrency-use-may-introduce-its-own-digital-currency

non paywalled here

https://pastebin.com/GVJUHFbb

Normally you'd dismiss this proposal out of hand a la Russia, but this is India, a country that was willing to buttfuck its very own poor until their entire digestive system collapsed in the name of driving them out of cash.

What do you reckon the odds are?


The answer why they want to do this is in your own thread title. May introduce own crypto hehehe.

I reckon the odds are high that they can create the law and pass it. However, the odds are low that they can enforce it.

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June 16, 2019, 04:30:49 AM
 #46

I doubt whether they are going to introduce their own crypto. At the most, they will introduce a digital version of the national currency (Indian Rupee, INR) and name it something like the crypto Rupee or the digital Rupee. Since it is inferior to most of the decentralized cryptocurrencies which are currently circulating, they first need to take them out and make some space.



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June 17, 2019, 03:23:05 AM
 #47

Yet, those with power will always find a way to get paid and they are inherently shielded by the nature of cryptocurrency.  So while bitcoin can solve the problem of Govt and Central Bank monopoly on the value of money, i think it creates additional problems when it comes to corruption. This is why it is easier to target it in a developing country like India.
But yes, targeting BTC for that is a typical diversionary tactic. Its not the tool but the intent of its use which is the problem here.

people in power can't misspend your money if you don't give it to them. so Bitcoin does solve that problem.

if you think that you will give your BTC to corrupt people if (when) they pressurize you, I reiterate: please sell to someone who won't give away their democratic rights to corrupt bullies
This is a gross oversimplification. That is not what happens when money changes hands due to "corrupt administration". It is not a case of "An individual" being forced/ pressurized. All such major scams are generally a mutual exchange between partners in cahoots.

The money that gets diverted is "Public Money". What suffers is Public Infrastructure, healthcare, education etc.

 
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June 17, 2019, 11:07:05 AM
 #48

This is a gross oversimplification. That is not what happens when money changes hands due to "corrupt administration". It is not a case of "An individual" being forced/ pressurized. All such major scams are generally a mutual exchange between partners in cahoots.

that's not what I meant though


The money that gets diverted is "Public Money". What suffers is Public Infrastructure, healthcare, education etc.

that ^^^ is what I meant.


Don't give them money. They give it to their friends to conduct public projects, then both put some or most of the money in their pockets. They're corrupt.


Be sure to give your money to people who do spend your money on good things that benefit others, and there's no real way of pointing a finger at you saying you're the problem.

Vires in numeris
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June 18, 2019, 02:17:16 PM
 #49

One of the proposed solution is to have some individual or some organization based outside India to hold the coins for the users. In case the user want to convert the coins to fiat, he can ask that individual to do that and send the money to India as "gift".

But I do not see how it resolves the problem, your coins are still your coins, regardless of whether they are stored on your computer or they are located in another country. If you government know that you have BTC for example in Japan, will this prevent them from punishing you for possession of cryptocurrency?

Also this would be a great security risk for each user, "no private keys, no full control over your coins". So something like this would work only if you have  a very confidential person in other country, who can hold coins for you and sell / buy coins for you. That "gift" part is also not 100% clear, fiat is something that can be very successfully tracked, and if government find source of money it can block your bank account and send you to cold storage for 10 years.

This can create some headache for both the Bitcoin users and the authorities.

Let's say I am holding BTC20. Since India has banned Bitcoins, I just send them to my friend, who issues me a bank cheque of a certain amount in return. My friend creates an exchange account in his name in Japan, and sell the coins for fiat currency. He deposits the fiat cash to his bank account. After a few days, I encash the bank cheque and withdraws the fiat to my bank account. How can the government prosecute me?

In my tax return, I will show the fiat amount as gift from my friend.

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June 18, 2019, 06:56:28 PM
 #50

The plan to go after decentralized cryptos and make their own, reminds me of Venezuela. Their plan did not work out, and people did not end up using their digital currency. The economic situation in both countries is very different tough.

I cant  understand why this drastic proposal is needed. It seems that is completely irrational and maybe even fueled by fear. I dont know much about India ( I have been there once for few weeks) but it seemed that almost all transactions are done via cash. So I dont understand how cryptos could give such big negative impact to their economy to justify this abnormal law.

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June 21, 2019, 03:39:33 AM
 #51

The plan to go after decentralized cryptos and make their own, reminds me of Venezuela. Their plan did not work out, and people did not end up using their digital currency. The economic situation in both countries is very different tough.

I cant  understand why this drastic proposal is needed. It seems that is completely irrational and maybe even fueled by fear. I dont know much about India ( I have been there once for few weeks) but it seemed that almost all transactions are done via cash. So I dont understand how cryptos could give such big negative impact to their economy to justify this abnormal law.

For Venezuela, apart from the target of getting additional funds, one of the intended purposes was to circumvent the sanctions and embargoes. And as far as I know, it worked to a certain extent. Russian shell companies located in Cryprus were able to transfer significant amounts of funds using the Venezuelan government crypto (Petro). I am not sure about the volumes, but the fact that Maduro has managed to cling on means that he has received significant funds from Russia.

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