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Author Topic: Interested in the old trust system?  (Read 508 times)
Vod
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June 14, 2019, 10:38:00 PM
 #1

Gentlemen, trust is not dead.

We can rebuild it.   We have the technology.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BthNjd_jUl4

If anyone can post the details on how trust used to be calculated, BPIP can calculate and rank it.

The timing is great as we're soon to launch version two of the Chrome extension!   This allows you to use a custom trust list and still see default trust.

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Vod
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June 14, 2019, 10:38:22 PM
Last edit: June 29, 2019, 12:11:11 AM by Vod
 #2

UPDATE:   2019-06-28

BPIP is now ranking feedback trust, which is similar to the old trust system with the following changes:
1) Question Trust is gone - no longer needed with flags
2) Positive trust received before the first red is counted
3) The number of negative ratings that make a difference has increased from 14 to 21. 

It will take some time to re-rank everyone, anything parsed later than a couple hours ago will be wrong.  You can always "Refresh Profile" if you want to see a particular score.

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
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June 14, 2019, 10:48:02 PM
 #3

If anyone can post the details on how trust used to be calculated, BPIP can [...] rank it.

I don't think the trust system was every meant to be a mechanism to rank users one way or another. It was meant to be a mechanism to gauge the ability to trust a person in a trade.

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June 14, 2019, 10:51:43 PM
Merited by Vod (1)
 #4

If anyone can post the details on how trust used to be calculated

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1066857.0

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June 14, 2019, 10:52:32 PM
Merited by TMAN (5), Vod (1)
 #5

Not sure how useful the old score will be going forward. In lieu of obvious scammer accounts being red tagged multiple times by multiple users, they are now likely to simply have multiple users supporting a flag on them, and end up with much less overall red trust, which will obviously massively impact their score.

Having said that, here is what you are looking for:

I also completely changed the trust score algorithm to this:
Code:
if there are no negative ratings
score = 0
for each rating, oldest to newest
if this rater has already been counted
continue
score += min(10, round_up(months since rating))
else
score = unique_positive - 2^(unique_negative)
if score >= 0
start_time = time of first negative
score = unique_positive since start_time - unique_negative since start_time
if(score < 0)
return ??? (orange)

move score to range [-9999,9999]
return score

Edit: Suchie beat me while I was typing. Cheesy

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June 14, 2019, 10:54:50 PM
 #6

We are active in the world's largest forum for cryptocurrencies, for blockchain, for smart contract. Here are perhaps the world's best specialists.

Trust is good. Control is better. A very nice German proverb Smiley

The control can be created with Smart Contract. The forum needs its own blockchain with various smart contracts. All other "outdated" control methods can be bypassed.

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June 14, 2019, 10:57:27 PM
 #7

Not sure how useful the old score will be going forward. In lieu of obvious scammer accounts being red tagged multiple times by multiple users, they are now likely to simply have multiple users supporting a flag on them, and end up with much less overall red trust, which will obviously massively impact their score.

Perhaps pre-flag scores would still be of some interest to someone. Or perhaps flags can be cunted as neg trust (actually I think flags do create sent feedback entry so maybe the same can be assumed on the receiving side).

Edit: Suchie beat me while I was typing. Cheesy

Told you those cookies are slowing you down.

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June 15, 2019, 03:58:28 AM
Merited by Quickseller (1)
 #8

Re: Interested in the old trust system?

No, Not at all.

The real problem is that in a centralized forum a decentralized mechanism is started with just few guidelines and with no check that guidelines are followed.

I like to see, theymos put a definitive rules in trust system not just guidelines.

I did not understand the flag system completely but I think theymos given liberty to scammers instead of educating the user , how to use trust system properly.

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June 15, 2019, 04:35:55 AM
 #9

I did not understand the flag system completely but I think theymos given liberty to scammers instead of educating the user , how to use trust system properly.

The system is still very new although i believe it's self explanatory but it still need sometime for we (forum users) to adopt to the system so give it some time and we'll start seeing hundreds of threads all over the forum breaking down the system to the understanding of a newbie just like we experiences via the merit and old trust system.

Quote
theymos put a definitive rules in trust system not just guidelines.]theymos put a definitive rules in trust system not just guidelines.

What else are you asking for? His stand on how the system should be used is very clear, "if it isn't trade related don't make use the trust system"

I still think the old system was better, productive and less time consuming especially when used rightly but now, lets work with what we have and make it work

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June 15, 2019, 05:04:22 AM
 #10

Problem was a few individuals abused the old trust system as an attempt to censor free speech,
by tainting any opinion they disagreed with. Because of those individuals the old trust system had to be de-clawed.
The new flag system still allows the reporting of scammers, but does not paint innocent people red, merely for stating opinions.

If you want to blame anyone for the old trust system being modified , blame the gang of users that were abusing it daily,
everyone knows who they are. Same ones now whining about the new flag system that blocks their old abusive tactics.

Personally the new flag system is a welcome change to the old abusive system.   Smiley

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June 15, 2019, 06:16:04 AM
 #11

Just tell me when, I'll add it to the extension lol.

Can have the new trust system, and then the old trust system right underneath w/ a link to BPIP

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June 15, 2019, 08:19:02 AM
 #12

If anyone can post the details on how trust used to be calculated, BPIP can calculate and rank it.
If you're going to calculate it on the fly, would it be too much to ask to base it on custom Trust lists instead of DT2? That would really make it the old trust system again.

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June 15, 2019, 08:49:52 AM
 #13

If anyone can post the details on how trust used to be calculated
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1066857.0


Another one with elaboration- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5069647.0
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June 28, 2019, 09:02:44 AM
Merited by TMAN (10), ibminer (1)
 #14

BPIP is now ranking feedback trust, which is similar to the old trust system with the following changes:
1) Question Trust is gone - no longer needed with flags
2) Positive trust received before the first red is counted
3) The number of negative ratings that make a difference has increased from 14 to 21.  

It will take some time to re-rank everyone, anything parsed later than a couple hours ago will be wrong.  You can always "Refresh Profile" if you want to see a particular score.

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
BitcoinTalk Public Information Project (BPIP)  - BPIP Reports
"Masturbation makes you feel good but doesn't do anything for the person you're thinking of.  Just like prayer."
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June 28, 2019, 04:17:48 PM
 #15

BPIP is now ranking feedback trust, which is similar to the old trust system with the following changes:
1) Question Trust is gone - no longer needed with flags
2) Positive trust received before the first red is counted
3) The number of negative ratings that make a difference has increased from 14 to 21.  

It will take some time to re-rank everyone, anything parsed later than a couple hours ago will be wrong.  You can always "Refresh Profile" if you want to see a particular score.

How nice you found a way to include your abusive trust ratings into your manipulated ranking system. Are you #1 yet? LOL. You are truly pathetic Vod.

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June 28, 2019, 04:28:54 PM
 #16

I like to see, theymos put a definitive rules in trust system not just guidelines.
Yeah, that would probably help things a lot.  I know Theymos is kind of an anarchist--and I respect that; it's what makes the forum appealing to me--but there's too much ambiguity about how the trust system should be used and although he's given some guidance, it's still kind of a free-for-all.

Problem was a few individuals abused the old trust system as an attempt to censor free speech,
by tainting any opinion they disagreed with.
I've definitely seen that, and I don't agree with such actions.  Even when I was tagging shitposters pre-Jan 2018, I realized it was not a good use of the trust system and was relieved when Theymos created the merit system.  But I've also seen members get tagged for their opinions, and that's not good.

We can rebuild it.   We have the technology.
Man, you just dated yourself.  And since I know exactly what that quote is, I've dated myself as well.  Smiley

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June 28, 2019, 04:55:48 PM
 #17

Vod,
   It appears that the tally given for neutral ratings is transposed with the tally for negative ratings.
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June 28, 2019, 06:01:27 PM
 #18

@Vod
Sorry for off topic , and its just an suggastion but would be nice to see on the Bpip profile when you looking at ,to see if the user has a Flag on his Account !

Maybe something like this :


Source: https://bpip.org/

Dont know if that is possible to implement it but i guess that would be great to see it there .

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June 28, 2019, 11:30:25 PM
 #19

  It appears that the tally given for neutral ratings is transposed with the tally for negative ratings.

Yes - it's a uncommon bug - hard to troubleshoot.  It only seems to happen some of the time..

just an suggastion but would be nice to see on the Bpip profile when you looking at ,to see if the user has a Flag on his Account !

Showing flags is being worked on... Smiley

We can rebuild it.   We have the technology.
Man, you just dated yourself.  And since I know exactly what that quote is, I've dated myself as well.  Smiley

Those were the good old days of believable hero fiction.  Today's superhero powers seem to make no sense.

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
BitcoinTalk Public Information Project (BPIP)  - BPIP Reports
"Masturbation makes you feel good but doesn't do anything for the person you're thinking of.  Just like prayer."
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