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Author Topic: I don't believe Quantum Computing will ever threaten Bitcoin  (Read 1426 times)
crwth
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August 28, 2019, 04:11:06 PM
Merited by Welsh (2)
 #61

When devs are getting their hands on these devices, can't a counter-defence (or attack) be introduced by them even at their understanding of 2 qubits to help figure out what type of actual attacks can destruct the memorandum code for Bitcoin? Can it be just attacking the value of Bitcoin or it will also destroy the whole economy?
So are you saying that developers are going to use it for good or not? I don’t quite understand what you are trying to say. With the use of QC, you would use it to see what “type” of attacks would work on Bitcoin and how it could be prevented? (That’s the good part).

What memorandum are you talking about? Maybe you are talking about integrity of the code? Altering it would cause a lot of economical tragedy with Bitcoin. Loss in value etc.

Considering that over 84% of BTC has already been mined, I see it to be least affecting the niche but the thing is, Bitcoin is still 'not fully, but to some extent' vulnerable to this type of *imagination* and we should prepare ourselves for a situation if occurs in near future.
I think time will come when it does that but we are probably not alive anymore when it happens. Maybe there would be a great change with regards how we are currently using cryptocurrencies now.

Why not find out a technology that can prevent us from the attacks of QC? If QC and other things were imagined and have become truth now, there must be something that can abolish their twitches and burst the bubble before it becomes too big to stop you from breathing.
Approaching it where the problem is QC (theory only) it should be answered by the same powerful thing, QC. It’s like fighting fire with fire, but everything is digital.

We are not there yet where it’s applicable already.


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August 31, 2019, 01:29:11 PM
 #62

So are you saying that developers are going to use it for good or not? I don’t quite understand what you are trying to say. With the use of QC, you would use it to see what “type” of attacks would work on Bitcoin and how it could be prevented? (That’s the good part).
Because of the issue discussed of only the wealthy elite being able to get their hands on quantum computers that are capable of threatening the algorithm Bitcoin uses its not realistic to use it for good. Especially because the easy solution would be changing to a different algorithm which would be capable of defending against a quantum computer. If someone wants to help Bitcoin against the future threat of quantum computers it would be contributing to the projects which are intending on implementing the quantum resistant algorithms or Bitcoin itself.
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September 01, 2019, 06:21:44 AM
 #63

Because of the issue discussed of only the wealthy elite being able to get their hands on quantum computers that are capable of threatening the algorithm Bitcoin uses its not realistic to use it for good.
I have never thought of the economics aspect towards how the Quantum Computers are going to be a threat towards the different kind of computing systems. I agree that the ones who can be the first customers of QC's might probably be the richest people. Addition to the people researching on that subject, they are going to be the first ones.

If someone wants to help Bitcoin against the future threat of quantum computers it would be contributing to the projects which are intending on implementing the quantum resistant algorithms or Bitcoin itself.
I know that we are far away from that reality but preventing the possible QC attacks to the network is more viable. I'm just not sure how they are going to do it because knowing the computing capabilities of QC, and it could outsmart any problems faster than normal.


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September 03, 2019, 03:41:27 AM
 #64


Bitcoin can answer to a crack, that was done before with a rollerback, but some attack would be bad for the business could be a complete CAOS for a while.

With the amount of transactions bitcoin currently has >300k/day, a rollback is almost impossible. Planning a rollback and getting everyone to agree with it would take some time, and what would you do with the >300-2000k transactions that were confirmed before the rollback?
There is a lot of money moving in bitcoin. How can anyone justify cancelling than many transactions?
Imagine. You sell your car for bitcoins, wait for it to confirm hand over your car and then the next day you don't have your coins anymore  Angry
What would that do to the reputation of bitcoin?

Maybe, if there would be a HUGE theft that would be noticed immediately, but that would have to be REALLY huge. I cant imagine such a thing happening anymore.
When a rollback was done bitcoin was a lot of smaller and there weren't as many transactions then. And the bug would have destroyed bitcoin if it had not been fixed. (someone created ridiculous amounts of new bitcoins from nothing. IF I remember correctly he created hundreds of millions of bitcoins...  Huh so something had to be done)



I was speaking in the case of a big attack, if it happens a little one its the same as you be hacked in your browser with a keylogger, that happens everyday or some guys stoling exchangers.

I think should exist some link in bitcoin.org website to complaint about transactions maybe hacked and should be marked as under investigation if we discover a padroon maybe can help to catch the bad guys.
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September 05, 2019, 10:21:52 PM
Merited by Welsh (2)
 #65

I want to share this article where they talk that the NSA wants to develop a cryptocurrency with quantum resistance:


Source: https://cointelegraph.com/news/nsa-working-to-develop-quantum-resistant-cryptocurrency-report

It is necessary to emphasize that the development of quantum computers has always attracted my attention, and I can only imagine that by having a Quantum Computer, and this quantum resistance coin is taken, the potential that will be developed will be incredible.

I have always thought that development calls for development and innovation, the algorithms will be with much more optimal codes, and if we add the artificial intelligence that helps to continue developing the improvements in a quantum computer, bitcoin would in turn have a prolonged growth, Well, if we assume that all altcoins depend on Bitcoin directly or indirectly combined with superior technology, it could be said that the market in general would enter a higher level where the price of Bitcoin would be much higher, since people pay whatever To have security.


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September 06, 2019, 05:23:59 AM
 #66

I want to share this article where they talk that the NSA wants to develop a cryptocurrency with quantum resistance:
--snip--

NSA and cryptocurrency is weird pair and i have some skepticism.

But effort to make quantum-resistant cryptocurrency cryptography already happened for years and even few cryptocurrency claim cryptography they use is quantum-resistant.
For reference, there are some promising candidate for quantum resistant cryptography signature, such as :
1. Lamport Signature
2. Lattice-based Cryptography
3. Multivariate-based cryptography

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September 09, 2019, 01:26:14 PM
 #67

For reference, there are some promising candidate for quantum resistant cryptography signature, such as :
1. Lamport Signature
2. Lattice-based Cryptography
3. Multivariate-based cryptography

These would be temporary solutions. Therefore they are developing new cryptos.

Postquantum, nobody will be able to prove that he/she/they was/were the owner/s in the old system, because everyone will be able to reproduce the privatekeys of old blockchains.

We will have a quantum secure network.
This will be the new beginning.

edited
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September 09, 2019, 06:18:23 PM
 #68

For reference, there are some promising candidate for quantum resistant cryptography signature, such as :
1. Lamport Signature
2. Lattice-based Cryptography
3. Multivariate-based cryptography

These would be temporary solutions. Therefore they are developing new cryptos.

Postquantum, nobody will be able to prove that he/she/they was/were the owner/s in the old system, because everyone will be able to reproduce the privatekeys of old blockchains.

We will have a quantum secure network.
This will be the new beginning.

edited

It's partially wrong, ECDSA is partially secure against quantum computer as long as the public key of an bitcoin address isn't known.
The real risks is when quantum computer is fast enough to obtain private key from public key in few minutes, which allow double-spend or re-org attack.

Using new cryptocurrency which only use quantum resistant cryptography isn't bad idea, but :
1. Is moving to different cryptocurrency every-time when there's known critical/unfixable vulnerability on current cryptocurrency is good solution?
2. Some cryptocurrency is dominated by developer and investor (with pre-mine and coin distribution) which makes wealth distribution far worse than Bitcoin or today's fiat.

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October 22, 2019, 12:46:32 PM
Merited by suchmoon (7), Welsh (6), AverageGlabella (3), vapourminer (1), ETFbitcoin (1)
 #69

I want to share this article where they talk that the NSA wants to develop a cryptocurrency with quantum resistance:
--snip--

NSA and cryptocurrency is weird pair and i have some skepticism.

But effort to make quantum-resistant cryptocurrency cryptography already happened for years and even few cryptocurrency claim cryptography they use is quantum-resistant.
For reference, there are some promising candidate for quantum resistant cryptography signature, such as :
1. Lamport Signature
2. Lattice-based Cryptography
3. Multivariate-based cryptography
Skepticism is valid because they are the NSA but remember that not every american government related organization is bad for the development of Bitcoin or cryptocurrency. The Tor Browser project was first made by the US Navy and their goal was to create a circuit based network which was capable of operating on low latency which would provide anonymity to its users. This quickly turned into a very good project for those wanting to conceal their identity while browsing the web and expanded beyond military use. The military has probably moved away from using the tor browser project because of exit nodes showing plain data and can be used by anyone unless they have control of their own nodes and only connect to them. The point I'm trying to make despite these projects being anti government in certain areas they were still developed by organizations close to the government. The Tor Browser went against NSA's principles of wanting all the information they can on everyone just like Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies encourage anonymity.

The funding that NSA can bring will certainly help the development towards a better alternative to lamport, lattice and multivariate based cryptocurrency if it doesn't provide a better alternative its always better to have more minds contributing to a issue because other projects like lamport or does not have the funding that the NSA does will be able to learn and integrate additions that the NSA have proposed.
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November 05, 2019, 12:06:33 AM
Merited by Saidasun (1)
 #70

A lot of people mention it here but how exactly is a quantum computer so good at one specific task? How are the developed differently? I have been studying quantum computers recently after the recent announcement of the Google quantum computer ground breaking qbits but whenever someone says quantum computers are only good at one specific task they never go into detail why that is true.

I would have thought that quantum computers would be good at all tasks just like a normal computer because they have better hardware than personal computers. How could that possibly have a detrimental effect on the computer if the hardware is much better?

Does it have something to do with the heat that the computer generates because of the amount of work that the hardware is putting in?

 
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November 05, 2019, 08:53:13 AM
Merited by ETFbitcoin (1), Saidasun (1)
 #71

A lot of people mention it here but how exactly is a quantum computer so good at one specific task?

Quantum computers are often compared with massively (exponentially so) parallel computers.

Their states are actually superpositions of classical states, each of which has a complex amplitude, which can be thought of as a complex analogue of probability.

Unlike classical parallelism, states in superposition are NOT individually observable.
You need to orchestrate the quantum computation so that states you don't want to observe CANCEL each other in amplitude.

Only problems with a very particular structure, such as integer factorization, allow for cancellation of all but an exponentially small fraction of desirable states, i.e. states from which we can extract the problem answer.
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November 05, 2019, 11:31:41 AM
Merited by Welsh (8), Macadonian (7), funsponge (3), NotFuzzyWarm (1), ETFbitcoin (1)
 #72

A lot of people mention it here but how exactly is a quantum computer so good at one specific task? How are the developed differently?
Computers are made with a layering system which determines what is on the computer. More layers does not necessarily mean a slower computer but in general terms when comparing a personal computer and a quantum computer it is the case. A personal computer has more layers and operates off high level programming instead of low level. Low level programming is sometimes called machine code and high level programming is called byte code. You are familiar with byte code because you use it every day. Byte code is on a operating system level and usually requires an operating system to be present. Look at windows and Ubuntu these are the operating systems which bytecode interacts with. These operating systems are designed to be a jack of all trades unlike super computers and quantum computers which excel at only a couple of things.

Just think that your computer that has these operating systems on them have useful programs like calculators and UI's and all kinds of things that help you as a daily user. However when quantum computers come into the frame they consider these programs useless. Even if a quantum computer has more powerful hardware it would still be a waste of resources to install a operating system. Instead they will use machine code and machine code is usually used for specific tasks. Your TV remote for a example as machine code and does not have a operating system. Automatic doors on a car would only have machine code. They are designed for speed in mind and to perform only a few tasks. Your tv remote flicks over channels but it cant surf the web or have a built in calculator same goes for a locking mechanism on a car it only has two jobs and that is to lock or unlock the door.

These are simple examples and ways of explaining this but this is the general idea of quantum computers vs a personal computer. A quantum computer will not have an operating system and they will be designed like your tv remote to carry out specific tasks as efficiently as possible. The biggest quantum computer development is factoring and they are extremely good at solving factoring problems but they can't calculate anything else except for what they are told to do. Combing this with the hardware of a quantum computer gives you what they are today. Qbits is a measurement of the processing power of these computers.
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November 05, 2019, 12:22:14 PM
 #73

-snip-
This is a good explanation at a very basic level but quantum computers are much more than just a layered system but I would agree that this is probably the best way of explaining the differences between normal computers and quantum computers and  I would like to say that because of this layering system targeted attacks would be more probable than large scale attacks due to having to rework what you call the machine code. I would call these super states which tromp goes into a little detail about. The only thing that newcomers to Bitcoin need to know is quantum computers aren't the end of Bitcoin and at a basic level they are made different than to your computer at home. They are only capable of targeted attacks and Bitcoin is probably at the lower end of priorities for a potential attacker. EDSCA is not going to be a big target for someone with a quantum computer and despite the media claims Bitcoin will not be in danger for at least another 10 years unless there is some groundbreaking breakthroughs in the scene of quantum mechanics.
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