WARNING you can NOT chargeback PayPal Friends and Family

[red023]

Yeah this might be obvious but I did not think about it as I had other things about the trade in my head.

Why is the forum and people warning everything here a million times about PayPal charge-backs when you can get scammed the exact other way around because from what I saw you can not charge-back those.

Please pin this or add it to this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=14632.0 and that https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=594959.0 topic.

Fucking bullshit.

[N0sferatu]

You are able to reverse a family&friends transaction if you used a VPN / Proxy while sending. After that, you just need to contact the Paypal customer support and claim your account to be hacked. Paypal will then return the money.

[mr.relax]

There are even more ways to reverse a F&F transaction, that I dont want to explain(Dont wanna teach the scammers...).
So receiving Paypal is never safe.

[Timelord2067]

Please support my flag against this user
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=297

[wkreatives]

Good POINT! The traders of crypto here are assuming that all who use paypal to buy crypto are scammers. So what's the point of this warning thingy? ridiculous isn't it?

Yeah this might be obvious but I did not think about it as I had other things about the trade in my head.

Why is the forum and people warning everything here a million times about PayPal charge-backs when you can get scammed the exact other way around because from what I saw you can not charge-back those.

Please pin this or add it to this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=14632.0 and that https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=594959.0 topic.

Fucking bullshit.

[wkreatives]

He scam you? can you show some screenshot as a proof?

Please support my flag against this user
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=297

[LoyceMobile]

PayPal Friends and Family is meant to be used with people you know and trust. Don't use it with strangers to avoid PayPal fees.

[Timelord2067]

He scam you? can you show some screenshot as a proof?

Please support my flag against this user
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=297

Given you haven't read the flag entry, allow me to quote it to you:

Timelord2067 alleges: Due largely to the factors mentioned in this topic, I believe that anyone dealing with red023 is at a high risk of losing money, and guests would be well-advised to avoid doing so. This determination is based on concrete red flags which any knowledgeable & reasonable forum user should agree with, and it is not based on the user's opinions.

The red-flags being the OP (red023) refuses to accept that PayPal is a reversible mechanism of payment - a well known method for scammers to scam.

[red023]

He scam you? can you show some screenshot as a proof?

Please support my flag against this user
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=297

Given you haven't read the flag entry, allow me to quote it to you:

Timelord2067 alleges: Due largely to the factors mentioned in this topic, I believe that anyone dealing with red023 is at a high risk of losing money, and guests would be well-advised to avoid doing so. This determination is based on concrete red flags which any knowledgeable & reasonable forum user should agree with, and it is not based on the user's opinions.

The red-flags being the OP (red023) refuses to accept that PayPal is a reversible mechanism of payment - a well known method for scammers to scam.

"largely to the factors in this topic"

Excuse me WTF? I try to warn people because I got scammed and some fucking idiot wants to flag me, claims I refused to accept PayPal? I had exactly one trade on this forum where i was scammed. You are fucking retarded. You never traded with me, and its just happens that I am (or WAS I think I am done with this forum). Some people really ... unbelievable. So as a thank you for warning people I get accused for using the method I am warning about, yeah makes total sense. Flag me you utter and complete idiot!

And how about you prove that I "refuse to accept" PayPal. I just happen to want to trade the other way around.

And on topic: I do not think I was logged into my VPN when doing the trade, also the guy who acted as a negotiator who did bring me to send money to a account for another person actually claims he will pay me back some time next month I will see if that happens.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Good POINT! The traders of crypto here are assuming that all who use paypal to buy crypto are scammers. So what's the point of this warning thingy? ridiculous isn't it?

I frequently use PayPal to either buy or sell bitcoin--and I'm not a scammer.  Never charged back, never will unless there's some sort of scam against me.  There are some members here who can indeed be trusted doing PayPal deals, but the number of newbie accounts and assorted higher-ranked scammers greatly outnumber those, and it's unfortunate.

The truth is that people here really need to watch out when dealing with PayPal.  I don't trust PayPal NOT to reverse a F&F transaction, and it's been ingrained in my head that it doesn't matter if the Tx is F&F--everything can be reversed within 6 months.  Whether that is completely true, I don't know, but I treat PP deals as if it were.

[Timelord2067]

If you review their latest posts OP came back online today after a 6.5 month break to start buying BitCoin with PayPal using the tried and true method of wanting to buy multiple thousands of EUR/USD worth of BitCoin, but only pay for small amounts first then work their way up.

The kicker in the three lines would have to be:

If there is anything I can to to get more trust here please let me know

[red023]

If you review their latest posts OP came back online today after a 6.5 month break to start buying BitCoin with PayPal using the tried and true method of wanting to buy multiple thousands of EUR/USD worth of BitCoin, but only pay for small amounts first then work their way up.

The kicker in the three lines would have to be:

If there is anything I can to to get more trust here please let me know

You are just stupid read WAY TOO much stuff into things because you got scammed.

I happen to come back here because BTC shooted up and I have currently I reason I can not buy with Bank account directly so I wanted to buy with PP thats it. This absolutely retarded thinking, is so stupid. "Oh he came back after a pause, he must be suspicious" but that idiot logic nobody ever can have a pause and come back to the forum because they will automatically come back as a scammer. This is a legit account and all I ever did it expose shady coins with this, never even traded, never got any reviews neither positive not negative bit I for sure must be a scammer because I actually have a brain unlike you.

And what so strange about willing to do small amounts first? What do I gain from this? So I need to chargeback many many small amounts instead of just setting someone 2000€ at once and let them send me the BTC and then just to one chargeback?

In fact THAT VERY MEASURE of me doing a small trade first so see if it checked out SAVED ME. Because I only send $45 with friends and family and NOT went straight with 2000 or even more so you STFU!

See you proven yet again that you are absolutely totally retarded.

And I am new here apart from just trading with people I do not know how to get trust so I just asked but that such a red flag in your stupid head.

[mr.relax]

Yes Timelord, this time youre wrong probably.
Theres no proof or anything that OP scammed someone.
And the (wrong) opinion that F&F is non-revesible does not say , hes a scammer.
Trying to reverse a payment does not mean that you are the scammer. If you went first and the other guy did not send Coins, then you chargeback.

Anyway, Best is never ever use reversible payment-methods. 

[wkreatives]

Saw it. Thanks! he offered a trade to me so that is a red flag as well.

He scam you? can you show some screenshot as a proof?

Please support my flag against this user
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=297

Given you haven't read the flag entry, allow me to quote it to you:

Timelord2067 alleges: Due largely to the factors mentioned in this topic, I believe that anyone dealing with red023 is at a high risk of losing money, and guests would be well-advised to avoid doing so. This determination is based on concrete red flags which any knowledgeable & reasonable forum user should agree with, and it is not based on the user's opinions.

The red-flags being the OP (red023) refuses to accept that PayPal is a reversible mechanism of payment - a well known method for scammers to scam.

[Chris!]

You are able to reverse a family&friends transaction if you used a VPN / Proxy while sending. After that, you just need to contact the Paypal customer support and claim your account to be hacked. Paypal will then return the money.

If that works once you're just scamming PayPal. That means you're as much a degenerate as the person that scammed you. Good luck pulling that scam off twice.


If you are a legit buyer of bitcoin using PayPal F&F it's going to be very hard to have your funds reversed. If you're a seller of bitcoin accepting PayPal, you have no idea if you're dealing with a hacked PayPal account or stolen credit card. If their tx is flagged as fraudulent, it'll be reversed.

[Steamtyme]

I will point something out here, as I was in a similar position to OP in mid 2017. I bought from a scammer using PP - I did not use F&F for this transaction, thinking this would be more legit and safe. 

Dotted the i's and crossed my t's by confirming with PP that this was a covered transaction, several times. Asked them if the account had any suspicious activity, the whole 9. Then sure enough when I put through the transaction and didn't receive my coins their tune changed. PP turned around and said that an  "ingame currency" wasn't covered, so explained that's not the case. They then said they do not cover digital currency, and claimed that the recordings of my previous calls didn't show any guarantees being given to me.

Good thing I used the credit card through PP, they handled it all. Do I still take PP for BTC, only if I have to and I feel I can trust the person enough. I've been more inclined to use a different service lately in Canada as they are super convenient and the rates are reasonable.