Bitcoin Forum
December 10, 2016, 10:47:58 PM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Beware of PayPal and other reversible transfer services  (Read 243984 times)
theymos
Administrator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2506


View Profile
June 10, 2011, 05:47:35 PM
 #1

Money sent through PayPal and any other money transfer service that accepts credit cards can be easily reversed by the sender, even after several weeks. Therefore, you should only accept PayPal in trades with people you trust very highly.

This is why newbies are not likely to sell their PayPal USD for bitcoins successfully.

Some other services that are not totally safe:
- Bank transfers (ACH, etc.) except wire transfers
- Most gift cards.
- Moneypak
- AlertPay
- Paysafecards
- Dwolla
- Western Union (they reportedly will sue the recipient to recover money in some cases)

1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD
1481410078
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481410078

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481410078
Reply with quote  #2

1481410078
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
ataranlen
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 843


The One and Only


View Profile WWW
June 10, 2011, 07:25:35 PM
 #2

Thank you Theymos for the clear warning sticky about paypal! I see way too many threads where new users are getting flamed for asking PPUSD for their Bitcoins!

MineTexas.com Minecraft Server We accept Bitcoin and Dogecoin.
Deepbit on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Deepbit/151108048294815
Garrett Burgwardt
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350



View Profile
June 10, 2011, 08:59:14 PM
 #3

http://thebitcoinsun.com/post/2011/06/05/The-Paypal-Problem

For a more detailed explanation of why paypal is bad, read that Wink
Nachtwind
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700



View Profile
June 10, 2011, 09:23:21 PM
 #4

good to know..
Are there any ways to increase the reputation?
fabianhjr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 322


Do The Evolution


View Profile
June 11, 2011, 03:14:21 AM
 #5

You might exchange your reversible payment for another like LR here: http://exchangezone.com/

BiafraRepublic
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 5


View Profile
June 11, 2011, 04:46:33 AM
 #6

A lot of people tend to trust VirWox

Obligatory bitcoin whoring: 1JTWNmDdDLoTMBz88AkfDBmEn7XQsYCrnZ
PGP KEY (http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x99BB249DF660C6F6) and Web of Trust Rating (http://www.bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=Biafra&sign=ANY&type=RECV)
RomertL
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 192


View Profile WWW
June 14, 2011, 06:20:31 AM
 #7

Money sent through PayPal and any other money transfer service that accepts credit cards can be easily reversed by the sender, even after several weeks. Therefore, you should only accept PayPal in trades with people you trust very highly.

This is why newbies are not likely to sell their PayPal USD for bitcoins successfully.

The chargeback-system seem to be pretty fucked up, but surely you can prove the bitcoin-transaction took place? Will they still reverse the creditcard-payment? Is it true for all services that accepts creditcards, for example Moneybookers too?

Looking for an easy way to charge bitcoins at: houseofreplicas.net, high quality replica watches. Using WP with the E-shop plug-in at the moment for charging credit-cards.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
bitcoin address: 1e8SHzCbxTJNo8LkNomeRppTSKX7rDwuB
theymos
Administrator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2506


View Profile
June 14, 2011, 06:34:27 AM
 #8

The chargeback-system seem to be pretty fucked up, but surely you can prove the bitcoin-transaction took place? Will they still reverse the creditcard-payment? Is it true for all services that accepts creditcards, for example Moneybookers too?

They aren't going to care about Bitcoin. They expect you to use the legal system if the chargeback was fraudulent.

Moneybookers transfers can also be charged back.

1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD
doomy
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28



View Profile
June 16, 2011, 08:39:56 AM
 #9

Please note, games gifted through Steam can be removed from your account if the payment method used was fraudulent and or the charges were reversed by the card holder.


Sauce.

The buck ends here -> 138Cqv33HWtjUn9T3FfZog5xT9NtKQMc2U
Fiyasko
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1428


Okey Dokey Lokey


View Profile
June 16, 2011, 07:05:48 PM
 #10

Whoohoo! it's been Pinned~!

http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=DingoRabiit&sign=ANY&type=RECV <-My Ratings
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.0 GAWminers and associated things are not to be trusted, Especially the "mineral" exchange
Jack of Diamonds
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252



View Profile
June 18, 2011, 12:18:47 AM
 #11

This is where BTC excels.

Once it's paid, it's paid. Nobody gets to lie or manipulate any manager or customer support personnel to 'reverse' a payment since it's impossible.

Sure it has it's risks, but I'd rather take those, than risk being charged back even up to 90/180 days after a transaction happened.

1f3gHNoBodYw1LLs3ndY0UanYB1tC0lnsBec4USeYoU9AREaCH34PBeGgAR67fx
ArXiS
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 9


View Profile
June 19, 2011, 01:36:23 AM
 #12

I just get all my clients to send as a donation/gift.  You cant dispute either, maybe words of wisdom to newcomers?
Garrett Burgwardt
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350



View Profile
June 19, 2011, 02:49:43 AM
 #13

I just get all my clients to send as a donation/gift.  You cant dispute either, maybe words of wisdom to newcomers?

Doesn't matter if it's a stolen account. You still get chargebacked.
Jessica
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 174



View Profile
June 23, 2011, 09:06:00 AM
 #14

What are you talking about? Tongue

If they send you the payment as a gift (there is an option to do so), they CANNOT charge you back / get a refund. Another way to stop them from charging back is to immediately send the money to another Paypal account, be it a company account, a friend / relative's account, or just a spare one that you have. If the money isn't in the account, they can't charge you back. (;
theymos
Administrator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2506


View Profile
June 23, 2011, 05:35:46 PM
 #15

If they send you the payment as a gift (there is an option to do so), they CANNOT charge you back / get a refund.

Not true. They can fund their PayPal account with ACH, which is reversible. If they reverse this ACH transfer, PayPal will take back the funds.

Gift payments can also be made directly with a credit card, which is even easier to chargeback.

1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD
BkkCoins
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 784


firstbits:1MinerQ


View Profile WWW
June 27, 2011, 08:10:59 AM
 #16

I've been using Paypal for 10 years selling items on eBay. There has been overall very rare cases of fraud - I can only recall maybe twice in that time for me.

But the fact Bitcoins are against policy and easy to claim non-receipt makes them untenable.

I'm just wondering if the deal was structured as a purchase of a certificate that is actually mailed out to the buyer would resolve that issue? In this case the seller would mail a paper document with signature required to the buyer. Upon receipt the buyer would email back a serial# and that would release the funds.

In my experience when tracking is documented to Paypal they side with the seller rather than a buyer claiming non-receipt. Officially the sale is for a certificate and not the BTC received. This puts the trust issue in favour of the seller rather than the buyer - who then has to choose if they trust the seller, the same way it is now with physical items.

virtualfaqs
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700



View Profile WWW
June 29, 2011, 11:02:17 PM
 #17

I'm offering a service to help educate users on how to accept PayPal for BTC. Details are in the link.

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=22255.0

https://twitter.com/virtualfaqs
Looking for altcoin pump advice? Then follow me.
Jessica
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 174



View Profile
June 30, 2011, 08:59:37 AM
 #18

If they send you the payment as a gift (there is an option to do so), they CANNOT charge you back / get a refund.

Not true. They can fund their PayPal account with ACH, which is reversible. If they reverse this ACH transfer, PayPal will take back the funds.

Gift payments can also be made directly with a credit card, which is even easier to chargeback.

But if they fund it normally, liek just recieving money from people, gifts are not reversible.
mizike29
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 168


View Profile
July 01, 2011, 12:49:01 AM
 #19

What I do if I sell bitcoins through paypal is offer a ZIP drive, thumb drive, or some other inexpensive product with the details of the sale on paypal showing tracking and confirmed delivery so the item can not be disputed.  Seems to have gone fine so far.

virtualfaqs
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700



View Profile WWW
July 01, 2011, 05:24:58 AM
 #20


But if they fund it normally, liek just recieving money from people, gifts are not reversible.

This is not correct. I covered this in another post here.
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=22255.msg305823#msg305823

Also there's no currently no definite way to tell whether a domestic gift payment was funded by bank account or credit card.

What I do if I sell bitcoins through paypal is offer a ZIP drive, thumb drive, or some other inexpensive product with the details of the sale on paypal showing tracking and confirmed delivery so the item can not be disputed.  Seems to have gone fine so far.

Doesn't work. There's no way to prove what's on the zip drive. So yes, you may be feel secure now, but there is a way around that system.

https://twitter.com/virtualfaqs
Looking for altcoin pump advice? Then follow me.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!