A Response to Illiterate and False Accusations (RIFA)

[itcoinbay]

If you are reading this you may or may not know that we are fairly new here at bitcointalk. We are also a fairly new Bitcoin Auction site. In addition to working on redesigning our website, which at this point is functional, but admittedly somewhat sophomoric, we are trying to increase our membership through free offers and giveaways, etc. Amazingly, but somewhat understandable, we constantly find ourselves accused of underhandedness. For God's sake you can't give Bitcoin away it seems without being accused of long-con plans or dastardly schemes or whatever. It gets really old and is really pretty infantile.

Anyway, we currently have a standing offer to pay someone .02 BTC if they will simply purchase a VIP membership with us which costs .01 BTC. This results in a net .01 BTC for the taker. For some that either don't have the ability to, or just won't take the time to, read, this is apparently akin to some sort of conspiratorial rocket science, but for us it seems fairly simple: you trust us in buying a VIP membership which will temporarily set you back .01 BTC, and we will then send you .02 BTC, again a net to you of .01 BTC. Does that seem like some long thought out scheme? If we were asking for 1, 10 or 100 BTC, I could understand the skepticism and super-paranoia, but goddammit it's .01 BTC LOL!  

To those false accusers, we have pity on your suspicious and probably guilt-ridden souls, for only a man or woman capable of such low-level schemes would suspect others of the same.

The following meme is dedicated to you pathetic and petty individuals:



Next is an image that explains our memberships for those of you that might be interested:



At our site, no 3rd party payment or conversion systems, downloads, platform installs, special wallets, etc. are required. We use only Peer to Peer transactions as envisioned by Satoshi Nakamoto. After all, is this is not how Bitcoin was intended to be used?

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[saerlingen]

Contact a trusted e-scrow here on bitcointalk and let them hold all the Bitcoin you plan to "give away", then you will have no issues at all. I can imagine you'll find excuses to not do this though. Hence, the flood of accusations since at any given time you can stop "re-imbursing" VIP payments.

[LoyceV]

First: you're posting this on the wrong board, you should move (bottom-left) it to the Reputation board.

you trust us in buying a VIP membership which will temporarily set you back .01 BTC, and we will then send you .02 BTC, again a net to you of .01 BTC

Don't you think we've seen it all hundreds of times already? You can't just go ask people to trust you when you're asking for an irreversible payment, trust has to be earned. Earn it, and you'll do great here!

I could understand the skepticism and super-paranoia, but goddammit it's .01 BTC LOL!

I'll make you a deal: how about you give 0.02BTC first, and I'll buy your VIP membership afterwards (assuming it doesn't require KYC or anything else that compromises my identity). To use your own words "but goddammit it's .02 BTC".

If not, well, let's say I understand the scepticism.
Update: I see you've already done this. The thing is: paying someone 0.01 once doesn't make anyone else trust you. I'm in doubt: if you're trying to build a legit business (read Patatas' post), then your approach is totally wrong because it looks like something many ponzi scammers have done. If you're legit, you should seriously reconsider your approach on this forum.
And if you're not legit, well, then you're right on track to not earn any trust.

Note: paying me does not buy my loyalty, nor a positive review. I'll only state facts.

[itcoinbay]

I have nothing else to say to you petty and small-minded losers except to the people that say "use a trusted escrow service." Yea what if we used an escrow service or exchange and it vanished one day with everyone's bitcoin which has happened many times? That's the reason we use only Peer to Peer transactions... If you want your bitcoin, you can keep your bitcoin with us. If not, why not just use fiat? These exchanges, etc. will transform Bitcoin into fractional-reserve-banking or something very similar if we let them get their noses under our tents.

This is a reply we posted on another post of ours. The OP having caused much speculation about our "underhanded intentions."

So in summary, many of you (at least the ones replying to this post) think we are scammers, but you're certainly willing to take .01 BTC if it requires nothing from you. See dipshits, that's the catch! Reward requires effort, action or risk, none of which you seem to be willing to expend. You are probably all scammers yourselves, and therefore you can't imagine the possibility that someone is simply making a legitimate offer. You are the type of people that we DO NOT WANT as members, so feel free to consider yourselves uninvited. We do not want petty and accusatory people as members at our site, only mature people that respect the Common Law--hurt no one nor their property.

Just for fun and mental anguish, I will explain the reasoning here once more, but it is improbable that you doubting Thomases have the attention spans to read through this and most assuredly you will not be able to comprehend anything before your rabid accusations start to boil over once again, but what the fuck.

First one quick example, one of our VIP members just posted an auction yesterday here: https://itcoinbay.com/ultimate-auction/elvis-presley-vintage-1955-sun-recording-mystery-train-i-forgot-to-remember-to-forget/. The starting bid was .03 BTC. At about 04:30 local time today, someone bid 1 BTC! WTF??? We obviously cancelled the bid and contacted the Bidder. We have had this happen multiple times and that was one of the reasons that we required only paid memberships until just recently. The paid membership served three purposes which I will now explain in case you haven't thought it through and obviously those of you posting negative replies haven't.

First off, it served as a litmus test to make sure that a member not only has the capacity to use bitcoin, but also has some bitcoin to spend (needed obviously to bid/buy). Bitcoin is fairly new still yea? Not everyone understands it and not everyone has it, agreed?

Secondly, it served to hopefully eliminate phantom bidders and buyers, i.e., mischief makers. Since we will stand behind our members and offer an in-house system for escrow, this also served to cover our ass.

Thirdly, it allows us to offer NO LISTING FEES for our Sellers. Imagine the tiny amounts of bitcoin and the associated and annoying tiny fees that would result if we charged listing fees as most respectable auction sites do.

Now visualize the scenario of someone posting a false auction. Previously our policy was to send 10% or .01 BTC (see the reason goddammit!), whichever is less, to the Seller as soon as we received payment from the Buyer, which we will still do for VIP Sellers. So in the event that a false auction was posted, we would have to return not only the money to the Buyer but we would be out the initial amount sent to the Seller. Well a paid membership would more than likely prevent someone from posting a false auction, what would be the reason if they had already paid us the initial amount that we would send them for a sold auction? Get it dimwits???

Now we have introduced free memberships due to all of the whining and accusations. It's a little more risky for us, but we have eliminated the risk mostly with a policy adjustment. There is still the potential for someone to be a nuisance, but that is about all that they could do. In revising our policy, we revised the previously mandatory fee to an optional and what should be a more palatable VIP membership. That someone can have a problem with this is absolutely illogical.

Click here to see an explanation of our memberships: https://itcoinbay.com/membership/.

This has all served to show us how incredibly cheap some people are. These people seem to want something for nothing and this illustrates that society as a whole is not yet ready for 'BTCe your own BTCank.'



"Now since we at itcoinBay.com do not attach ourselves nor our members to fiat currencies, bank accounts or credit cards, we have developed a fee-based system for the purpose of accountability. It would be great to be able to just trust everyone, but until society evolves to that point, for the protection of all participants we will practice the Russian policy of 'trust but verify,' by charging a modest fee for participation. In the age of $1000 cell phones, $5+ coffee and Washington, D.C., we don’t feel at all apprehensive about this fee."

We realize that this fee is some sort of astronomically huge mental and financial leap for some of you (again talking to the ones replying to this post in a negative manner), so to sort of soften the huge blow of the gigantic setback--.01 BTC - LMFAO--we are going to give away some really nice prizes in a drawing for VIP members if and when we reach 100 VIP members. By the way members can help us reach this level by referring VIP members to us. We reward Referrers with .001 BTC per each paid VIP Seller. The following image describes our Contest/Drawing which you can also read about here: https://itcoinbay.com/contest/. Now take a new look at our offer, not only are we willing to pay someone a net .01 BTC to become a VIP member (again trying to increase our membership and auction numbers), but they are entered into our Drawing where they could win either a $1800 drone or .1 BTC, and we pay them .01 BTC to gain this chance!! Good grief people will bitch about anything and everything.



If you like this offer, take advantage of it. If you don't like it don't take advantage of it. To criticize something from a position of ignorance is just that--staggeringly ignorant!

At our site, no 3rd party payment or conversion systems, downloads, platform installs, special wallets, etc. are required. We use only Peer to Peer transactions as envisioned by Satoshi Nakamoto. After all, is this is not how Bitcoin was intended to be used?

[LoyceV]

Let's summarize:

petty and small-minded losers

dipshits,
You are probably all scammers yourselves

Go fuck yourself!

Name calling is very common for scammers after being called out.
If you're running a serious business: stay friendly! Who cares what someone on the internet says about you? Have some dignity.

The thing is: I was trying to help you here! I'm all for helping new users, but only if I believe they have good intentions.

[itcoinbay]

Name calling is very common for scammers after being called out.
If you're running a serious business: stay friendly! Who cares what someone on the internet says about you? Have some dignity.

The thing is: I was trying to help you here! I'm all for helping new users, but only if I believe they have good intentions.

I've tried and no matter what stance we take someone has an issue with it. See there you go again--"name calling is very common for scammers after being called out." It is also pretty common for someone that is honest to get pissed off at being accused, without any proof, of being dishonest as well, is it not?

It's just extremely frustrating. We are trying to establish a Peer to Peer Bitcoin Auction site, but people are so accustomed to scammers that the first response is to paint us with that same brush and I know it's not a good practice to resort to name calling or swearing but I am only human. As I stated, those words were meant only for the accusers and detractors and I stand behind them. Sure maybe we could use an escrow service or whatever, but that has already been done has it not? We are trying to build a community of honest people using only Peer to Peer transactions. Why risk everything to a third party? Maybe people still prefer that and that's why the banksters continue thriving.

I for one have zero trust in exchanges (haven't investigated escrow services much at all to be honest but we don't really need one as we will fulfill that role internally). I had planned to buy a bunch of bitcoin back in 2013, but to be honest I couldn't really figure out exactly how to go about that. I had signed up with Mt. Gox but never made a purchase. I don't know whether I'm glad that I didn't or not at this point. Would I still even have any bitcoin had I bought some and kept it in the exchange? I didn't know about hardware wallets then and not sure if they even existed then. But rather than keep one's bitcoin in a 'bank,' why not keep it in your own wallet? That is what we promote and that is our plan and we will not change it. If it fails it fails, if not great.

Again, as it relates to our offer: do people really expect reward with no expenditure of action or risk? That is not how life works.

If you were sincerely trying to help, thank you. If you got caught undeservedly in a rage of crossfire, I apologize.

I have let this all get to me more than I should have, but I really didn't expect such an attack. We will not be making anymore such offers here. I'm tempted to detract the current offer, but I will let it stand just for kicks.

[target]

If you have no issues paying such amount as you just said here its just 0.01BTC, you should just hire an escrow and you can stop worrying all about the accusation. Name calling will worsen the marketing of the business you promote. Everyone will see this post you did and will be discourage to make deal with your good company. Hiring an escrow has become a norm here and users doesn't have issues with it.

[itcoinbay]

If you have no issues paying such amount as you just said here its just 0.01BTC, you should just hire an escrow and you can stop worrying all about the accusation. Name calling will worsen the marketing of the business you promote. Everyone will see this post you did and will be discourage to make deal with your good company. Hiring an escrow has become a norm here and users doesn't have issues with it.

Go away won't you. You guys are like mindless parrots. IT'S BEEN DONE! You want to use a site or build one that uses third parties--good luck to you. That is not our plan. What we are building isn't nearly as fantastic as you guys insinuate.

Yet again I will repeat:

At our site, no 3rd party payment or conversion systems, downloads, platform installs, special wallets, etc. are required. We use only Peer to Peer transactions as envisioned by Satoshi Nakamoto. After all, is this is not how Bitcoin was intended to be used?

[LoyceV]

I've tried and no matter what stance we take someone has an issue with it. See there you go again--"name calling is very common for scammers after being called out." It is also pretty common for someone that is honest to get pissed off at being accused, without any proof, of being dishonest as well, is it not?

"It depends" I think it's good to learn not to let things online get to you too much. I've had my fair share, see this story filled with accusations. I thought it was worth a laugh, so I Merited the post.

It's just extremely frustrating. We are trying to establish a Peer to Peer Bitcoin Auction site, but people are so accustomed to scammers

Many people learned the hard way not to trust people.

Sure maybe we could use an escrow service or whatever, but that has already been done has it not? We are trying to build a community of honest people using only Peer to Peer transactions. Why risk everything to a third party?

An escrow is someone with a proven track record. You can't start out and say you're an escrow.

Maybe people still prefer that and that's why the banksters continue thriving.

Banks aren't going to help you if your internet order doesn't get delivered. Banks don't offer escrow services.

Again, as it relates to our offer: do people really expect reward with no expenditure of action or risk? That is not how life works.

I've seen countless great offers on this forum that gave away Bitcoin, but it's more likely nowadays to see scammers than freebies. As for your offer: I only noticed your topics when there were several threads already, and my first impression was indeed that you asked many people to become VIP for 0.01 BTC to get 0.02 BTC. It took me a while to figure out this offer was only meant for one person, which makes it sound a lot less like a ponzi.

If you were sincerely trying to help, thank you. If you got caught undeservedly in a rage of crossfire, I apologize.

I'm always sincere and didn't take anything personal.

I have let this all get to me more than I should have

That was quite obvious

but I really didn't expect such an attack. We will not be making anymore such offers here. I'm tempted to detract the current offer, but I will let it stand just for kicks.

I'd say: take a break, enjoy your weekend, and come back when you're refreshed. There's a lot to read here, but as a summary, I can already tell you that there are many times more scams than legit offers. Trust takes time, and trust is earned slowly. But you can lose it very quickly.

At our site, no 3rd party payment or conversion systems, downloads, platform installs, special wallets, etc. are required. We use only Peer to Peer transactions as envisioned by Satoshi Nakamoto. After all, is this is not how Bitcoin was intended to be used?

What if the seller doesn't deliver?

[gentlemand]

It's just extremely frustrating. We are trying to establish a Peer to Peer Bitcoin Auction site, but people are so accustomed to scammers that the first response is to paint us with that same brush and

Um, what did you expect?

Almost every single no mark who arrives here making loud claims is a scammer. Non scammers are in a microscopic minority.

That's the reality. Deal with it and earn the trust you so loudly seem to be demanding. If you feel you somehow deserve it then that's great. Don't get arsey if no one feels the same way. Turn opinion around with your actions.

[malevolent]

Banks aren't going to help you if your internet order doesn't get delivered. Banks don't offer escrow services.

Actually they do, e.g. https://www.bankmillennium.pl/corporate/products/day-to-day-service/accounts-and-deposits/trust-and-escrow-accounts
https://www.mbank.pl/msp-korporacje/obsluga-biezaca/rachunki/rachunek-zastrzezony-escrow/
http://www.citibank.pl/poland/corporate/english/escrow-account.htm

Then there are also letters of credit which are a similar but different thing.

[WhyFhy]

Your concept seems like a broken pyramid.
You posted a virtual office as your location.
Youre using domainsbyproxy but not cloudflare on a auction platform with cryptocurrency.


Sign a wallet with funds you plan to match our contribution for proofs and easier participation?
This would address main concerns for most users.
If you can establish credibility with this it might help a lot .
the other things are "fixable" but could be a problem for yourself and users (get cloudflare!)