For how much money heroes and legends are willing to advertise fraud and scam?

[birkado]

I do not understand the policy of the forum administration. They do not prohibit the advertising of dubious and fraudulent services or companies against which criminal proceedings are instituted in different countries of the world (for example, YoBit Exchange).

If you claim something you need to back up your claim about the criminal proceedings that is being taken against Yobit. It is a shady exchange without much transparency and no one is denying that who have traded in that exchange and the fake volumes in some of the shitty coins being listed, but what top level exchange provides the exact volume in this market. Advertisement provided does not mean that they are claiming it to be legit.

Anyone can bring up an accusation and if it's valid it has "opportunities" to be supported by DT members using flags and red trust ratings. That's what happened to LiveCoin recently.

It is a strange case altogether with livecoin, not sure about the intensity of the situation but a users coins are confiscated because he voiced out against them showing their incompetence and the amount is around $200 and they are not even trying to sort the issue which is strange. When they started a new campaign i thought they sorted out the issue  .

in Russian, you can use a translator
https://ru.forexmagnates.com/roskomnadzor-vserez-vzyalsya-za-kriptovalyutnuyu-birzhu-yobit/
https://hyipcoins.top/birzha-yobit-moshennichestvo
The Russian people everything works according to this principle.  If a thing looks like shit, smells like shit and is spoken of as shit, then that thing is shit
English people don't agree with it. Even if they shove this thing in yourself mouth, they will say that it is possible to someone it will seem delicious
Different mentality, nothing can be done.

[YOSHIE]

In this case the guilty one is: manager Livecoin not participants participating in the campaign,
What needs to be warned about Livecoin campaign fraud is its manager.

Menajer has been warned in this case: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2650265
And also his bad reputation: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5166754.0

If the manager of Livecoin is banned from this Forum and the mod removes his campaign, this problem is over, or the manager of Livecoin, returns the funds he has brought from the user and this issue is over.

So the problem here is if resolutely resolved by the authorities everything is finished.

[Joel_Jantsen]

I know theymos is trying to avoid this, but he seems to be open to the idea of potentially disallowing signature campaigns, and lets be honest it would improve the forums signal to noise ratio by a whole lot, although we would be removing a rather interesting eco system which has developed because of it. Unfortunately, whenever you have something good, it is always abused by the masses until it eventually ends up being tossed out. 

We have to agree that the majority of traffic comes here for signature campaigns and other money earning services. The moment signature campaigns are stopped, the traffic will look for alternatives and this will give rise to another forum where signature campaigns will be accepted. Due to the lack of traffic, services will gradually move to an alternative as well. Yes, we would not have spams but it will affect the forum's ad revenue as well.

[Thirdspace]

Or we could end all signature campaigns for 60 days just to see if it helps.

Think of all the spam that would go by by.

it would definitely tone down spam a lot, but it makes this forum less lively
there will be less people posting in the forum because of lack of motivation
lets be honest, signature campaigns do help attract new users to the forum
as side effects, they help expose bitcoin to many new users from various backgrounds and classes

[TECSHARE]

I AM GONNA NEED
ABOUT TREE FIDDY

[Pffrt]

None of the participants seem familiar to me that means I haven't encountered them on the forum neither have I meirted their posts (I think), so to me they aren't worthy ambassadors of those rank they're representing. Maybe you should edit OP title to "forum members"  instead of specifying ranks because I'm positive most lower ranked users would had done the same if given the opportunity.

That's not true mate. Probably you didn't notice them, may be you are posting on limited number of boards. You didn't merit them doesn't reflect they are bad poster or they don't deserve the rank.
The problem is that, most accounts were inactive, it's simply can be said that most of the accounts are signature campaign abuser.

[Quickseller]

I had PM'ed all the participants in the campaign and received a response from kodtycoon that he is removing the signature because he doesn't want to promote a scam.

I would encourage everyone else in the campaign to do the same.

[Pffrt]

Hope you notice when I indicated my assumptions above are based on my own judgement i said "so to me" I wasn't speaking based on the forum generally. My judgements are limited to my knowledge on the issue. I read post from almost all aspect of the forum, me not relying doesn't mean I don't visit the boards. Some times when I go on a quality post hurting mode, so I could exercise my duties as a merit source i also read posts from local sections through google translation (might not give me an accurate translation but does gives me an idea of what message OP is trying to pass across although haven't been doing this lately).

I didn't mean you don't visit. I remember I have gotten a merit from you on service section of altcoin, the post was an old post.

Anyway, come the point, for people with dozens account who only wait for signature campaign, doesn't matter what they will promote. They matter the cash only. For me, I wouldn't promote a scam project, even the payment is the highest.
I always have fought against the scam, tried to alert people not to join scam project, not to invest in coins without enough research, not to use an scam exchange.
For me, my standard is more precious than the cash.

I had PM'ed all the participants in the campaign and received a response from kodtycoon that he is removing the signature because he doesn't want to promote a scam.

That's a good move from both of you. Real man never promote scam, they bust.

[hilariousetc]

I AM GONNA NEED
ABOUT TREE FIDDY

Already made that joke 

Personally, about tree fiddy.

No one will risk their hero account if they ranked up from newbie with the current merit system involved because I know that it is not an easy job and it can be considered as life achievement as well so they won't risk even for $1000 I guess.

Sometimes they don't know about it or don't care. Some will just take whatever they get, especially since decent sig campaings are both rare and hard to get onto.

Hero & Legendary accounts that were hero & legendary before the merit update shouldn't be regarded as something unique.

Right--and I also don't even recognize most of those members, and I don't think they're among the most trusted in the community despite their ranks (I have not checked any of their trust pages, though). 

bryant.colman usually only pops up when there's a lucrative sig camp. I think that account may have changed hands as well though it's hard to say whether it just goes inactive when he can't monetise it.

I know theymos is trying to avoid this, but he seems to be open to the idea of potentially disallowing signature campaigns, and lets be honest it would improve the forums signal to noise ratio by a whole lot, although we would be removing a rather interesting eco system which has developed because of it. Unfortunately, whenever you have something good, it is always abused by the masses until it eventually ends up being tossed out. 

We have to agree that the majority of traffic comes here for signature campaigns and other money earning services. The moment signature campaigns are stopped, the traffic will look for alternatives and this will give rise to another forum where signature campaigns will be accepted. Due to the lack of traffic, services will gradually move to an alternative as well. Yes, we would not have spams but it will affect the forum's ad revenue as well.

I'm not so sure. You could argue that it might increase it. Most businesses here don't advertise via the ad slots because it's more effective to pay users. It might even be cheaper in some instances. Also, theymos doesn't seem to care that much about forum income so traffic probably isn't that much of a concern either. At least if sig campaigns were banned then the quality of discussion would go up exponentially. Though as I've always said, quality discussion and sig campaigns can coexist with better management on their behalf. Imagine if every campaign was run like Darkstar's. We would then have no problem with spam and they would actually help improve the quality of content.

[johhnyUA]

The Russian people everything works according to this principle.  If a thing looks like shit, smells like shit and is spoken of as shit, then that thing is shit

Yep, because of that we didn't support izooomrud. Because all you, russian speaking noobs smells like a shit more than Livecoin.

It's easy to verify my words, because no one from trusted russian members (DT1, DT2) supported Livecoin flag  



Why "supported" and not "supporting"?
Livecoin have already unlocked izooomrud account, so flag3 accusation can be considered as "resolved".

At least if sig campaigns were banned then the quality of discussion would go up exponentially.

And what about quality and speed of responding to ban appeals? If it go up as a quality of discussion, i'll vote for it!

Markiz is waiting

[erikalui]

Exchanges cannot be regarded as scam till they start scamming everyone like yobit and livecoin. Yobit recently paid me my pending money (which was in their wallet since a year) so it wouldn't be right for me to give them a negative trust because they did not pay others who were withdrawing thousands of dollars while exchanges like cryptopia who cheated all users including me deserve to be called scam as they ran away with users' funds that were not stolen and claimed bankruptcy. Livecoin recently cleared themselves by solving one accusation and even though they are shady without a doubt, they can't be termed scammers just like hitbtc and yobit. Those who are wearing the signature don't care about the consequences users who have been cheated have faced because they are earning and haven't been cheated by livecoin which is really a shame. If livecoin was genuine, they wouldn't have locked their thread and self-moderated it.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Or we could end all signature campaigns for 60 days just to see if it helps.

Think of all the spam that would go by by.

Why not try it for a bit just to see.

We’d certainly see who is serious about & enjoys posting here if there was a 60 day signature ban.
I’d be here every day with or without getting paid for my signature, I can probably comfortably say that isn’t the case for everybody who gets paid to post.

[TECSHARE]

Already made that joke 

Sorry, I didn't realize once you made a joke it is dead forever. Next time I will check with you first before laughing.

[IconFirm]

Or we could end all signature campaigns for 60 days just to see if it helps.

Think of all the spam that would go by by.

Why not try it for a bit just to see.

We’d certainly see who is serious about & enjoys posting here if there was a 60 day signature ban.
I’d be here every day with or without getting paid for my signature, I can probably comfortably say that isn’t the case for everybody who gets paid to post.

I'd be more than happy to see a perma-ban of sig/profile campaigns/promotions, it would certainly rid this forum of clutter/spam - not to mention scams/shitposters & pointless arguements over nothing but getting paid a few bucks for doing so. I'm all for it.

[malevolent]

And what about quality and speed of responding to ban appeals? If it go up as a quality of discussion, i'll vote for it!
Markiz is waiting

If you PM'd Cyrus and theymos more than once or twice and they aren't responding I assume the answer is a 'no'.

We have to agree that the majority of traffic comes here for signature campaigns and other money earning services. The moment signature campaigns are stopped, the traffic will look for alternatives and this will give rise to another forum where signature campaigns will be accepted. Due to the lack of traffic, services will gradually move to an alternative as well. Yes, we would not have spams but it will affect the forum's ad revenue as well.

Advertisers care not only about traffic but about the quality of it, I'm not sure (I don't lean either way) if people who visit bitcointalk solely for signature campaigns are worth as much as users without paid signatures.

[Pffrt]

I'd be more than happy to see a perma-ban of sig/profile campaigns/promotions, it would certainly rid this forum of clutter/spam - not to mention scams/shitposters & pointless arguements over nothing but getting paid a few bucks for doing so. I'm all for it.

That's not a potential solution probably, otherwise, theymos would do it long ago. I doubt 10% of the current active people/activity would be active once sig is disable.

[Quickseller]

I'm not so sure. You could argue that it might increase it. Most businesses here don't advertise via the ad slots because it's more effective to pay users. It might even be cheaper in some instances. Also, theymos doesn't seem to care that much about forum income so traffic probably isn't that much of a concern either. At least if sig campaigns were banned then the quality of discussion would go up exponentially. Though as I've always said, quality discussion and sig campaigns can coexist with better management on their behalf. Imagine if every campaign was run like Darkstar's. We would then have no problem with spam and they would actually help improve the quality of content.

I have long argued that companies should be called out when their advertising is harming the forum in the form of low quality posts.

As a forum user, I very much appreciate how Darkstar runs his campaign because of how little spam his campaign contributes (although there are some in his campaign that can both post without knowing what they are talking about and get merit in these posts). However running a campaign the way Darkstar runs his campaigns is going to be more expensive than running a campaign the way stake ran their campaign both to participants and to the manager. If there were tangible reputation consequences to having a campaign run poorly, more companies would have their campaigns run like Darkstars.

I have also noticed a trend that companies are starting to pay people to blog and write articles about their company on various other platforms (including other social media sites). I would suspect that more companies will move toward this type of advertising because the content stays up (usually) after payment has been made, and the reviews help with google search results.   

[johhnyUA]

And what about quality and speed of responding to ban appeals? If it go up as a quality of discussion, i'll vote for it!
Markiz is waiting

If you PM'd Cyrus and theymos more than once or twice and they aren't responding I assume the answer is a 'no'.

I'm not PM'ing admins, we have global mods for such things now .
And what a funny statement "If someone is not answering to PM, that's mean no". Community deserves to hear detailed response in ban appeal topic. I think it will be honest way.

[Veleor]

It's easy to verify my words, because no one from trusted russian members (DT1, DT2) supported Livecoin flag <...>
Livecoin have already unlocked izooomrud account, so flag3 accusation can be considered as "resolved".

I think that the flag against LiveCoin can be considered conditionally valid, since their customer agreement has contradictions. If I get it wrong, then let experts with law degrees to correct me.
In the agreement LiveCoin warns that they will take clients funds for some possible reasons, but at the same time, the Exchange states that the agreement doesn't affect the legal rights of the customers.
Even with the terms of LiveCoin's own contract, they can not arrogate the clients funds, because such decisions must be taken only by courts.

Code:

Nothing in these Terms affects the legal rights of the Customers.

Nothing in these Terms excludes or limits liability of either party for fraud, death or personal injury caused by negligence, violation of laws, or any other activity that cannot be limited or excluded by legitimate means.

# https://www.livecoin.net/en/useragreement

[hilariousetc]

Already made that joke  

Sorry, I didn't realize once you made a joke it is dead forever. Next time I will check with you first before laughing.

Good lord, you really need to take the stick out of your ass. Did I say it was dead forever? However, I'll be sure to let you know once you finally say something that is even remotely funny.

And what about quality and speed of responding to ban appeals? If it go up as a quality of discussion, i'll vote for it!
Markiz is waiting

If you PM'd Cyrus and theymos more than once or twice and they aren't responding I assume the answer is a 'no'.

I'm not PM'ing admins, we have global mods for such things now .
And what a funny statement "If someone is not answering to PM, that's mean no". Community deserves to hear detailed response in ban appeal topic. I think it will be honest way.

Theymos and cyrus rarely respond to PMs these days probably due to lack of time and sheer number of the PMs they get, but sadly if they don't then you have to take it as a no. It's pot luck if they do, but annoyingly that has a knock on effect of Globals being PMd and 90% of the time we can't do anything about it or we then have to pester them about it and personally I don't really wan't to annoy them with it so if they don't respond I just take that as a no or 'I don't have time'.

However running a campaign the way Darkstar runs his campaigns is going to be more expensive than running a campaign the way stake ran their campaign both to participants and to the manager. If there were tangible reputation consequences to having a campaign run poorly, more companies would have their campaigns run like Darkstars.

Well, those two campaigns are the anomalies and one is probably the most lucrative and the other was one of the measliest in terms of payment, but regardless of whether you pay a lot of little, the quality still needs to be there. Even if you're paying someone pennies if the quality control was there you would still get good content. Sure, many users won't want to join them but regardless of how much you get paid it's still money for nothing. I mean, I get paid zero for every other message board I post on and if the only campaign I could join  here was a low paying one then I would because it's still better than nothing. The problem is is when there's no quality control and people start spamming because their livelihoods depend on it. Campaigns don't have to pay ridiculous amount either as a middle ground can be found, just as long as the quality control is there. When a campaign like Stake or Yobit comes along as is literally paying anyone for anything then that's when the abuse becomes rife and has a devastating effect on the forum in the process and it's those campaigns that give sig campaigns in general a bad name. If the sig campaign guidelines where ever enforced then the forum would clean itself up pretty fast, but when we allow campaigns to basically do what they want (and in many cases that is nothing) then it's going to be abused because they can get away with it.