Bitcoin Forum
September 18, 2019, 12:34:49 PM *
News: If you like a topic and you see an orange "bump" link, click it. More info.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: [IDEA] Physical Bitcoin Lotto Scratch Cards  (Read 240 times)
LoyceV
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1610
Merit: 4619


Largest Merit Circle on BPIP!


View Profile WWW
July 22, 2019, 06:23:48 PM
Last edit: August 01, 2019, 09:13:30 AM by LoyceV
Merited by yogg (2), micgoossens (2)
 #1

First: the idea isn't mine:
I always thought it would be cool if we could get gambling scratch cards like the US loto has. I would only want to be gambling 0.1 mbtc but a physical card to scratch would be cool
But I like it enough to create a topic for it Smiley

I found several websites that offer Bitcoin Scratch Cards, but it's either online gambling, or only paper wallets that hide the private key under a scratch-off layer.

Physical Bitcoin Lotto Scratch Cards (let's call them PBLSC)
Now imagine the possibilities if a trustworthy person creates Physical Bitcoin Lotto Scratch Cards:
  • This person has to be highly trusted (and his printing system too)
  • A Lotto scratch card that doesn't expire: how cool is that? You can either scratch it now, or 20 years from now, and it will work just as well
  • It needs a large number of scratch cards to be able to have larger prizes and reach a low printing cost per card
  • This would be a very cool thing as a gift!
  • Each PBLSC ticket could also act as a paper wallet: On one side, you'll find the Lotto, with a scratch-off private key, QR-code and the balance printed, and on the other side, you'll find a Bitcoin address (with QR-code) to fund the wallet/gift yourself, and a scratch-off private key (with QR-code). This makes it a paper wallet with a possible bonus amount.
  • It can be used as a gift, and might become a collector's item
  • It would of course need a very cool design, and someone (not me, it's out of my league) to create this.

Is this feasible?

Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
ChiBitCTy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 560
Merit: 654


*Remembering Zepher*


View Profile
July 22, 2019, 06:37:58 PM
 #2

I think this would be pretty fun as well ! I sure don't trust any of those companies out there for something like this, but a community member like polymerbit or ColdKey for ex. would likely have the resources to make something like this happen if they were interested. 
Lutpin
Copper Member
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1456
Merit: 1815


Goodbye, Z.


View Profile WWW
July 22, 2019, 06:55:24 PM
 #3

If you need input on the "scratch" part of this, wheelz1200 did use scratch cards for the bonus games on their Genesis Coin Releases.
They've also handled private keys (albeit unloaded) in the past, and the way Genesis Coins were distributed in "randomly" assorted boxes had a gambling aspect.

If I were to start a project like that, I'd have a chat with them Smiley


▄▄▄████████▄▄▄
▄██████████████████▄
▄██████████████████████▄
██████████████████████████
████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████
▀██████████████████████▀
▀██████████████████▀
▀▀▀████████▀▀▀
   ███████
██████████
██████████
██████████
██████████
██████████
██████████
██████████
██████████
██████████
██████████
██████████
███████



             ▄████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████▄
            ██                          ▄▄▄▄▄▄                           ██
           ██  ██████                ▄██████████▄     ████████████████████▀
          ██  ████████             ▄████▀   ▀████▄    ████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
         ██  ████  ████           ████▀       ▀██▀    ████
        ██  ████    ████        ▄███▀                 ████

       ██  ████      ████       ███▀                  ████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
      ██  ████        ████      ███                   ██████████████
     ██  ████          ████     ███▄                  ████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀

    ██  ████████████████████    ▀████                 ████
   ██  ██████████████████████    ▀████▄        ▄██▄   ████

  ██  ████                ████     ▀████▄   ▄████▀    ████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
 ██  ████                  ████      ▀██████████▀     ████████████████████▄
  ██                                    ▀▀▀▀▀▀                           ██
   ▀█████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████▀
JanEmil
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 714
Merit: 247


I WORK FOR BTC


View Profile WWW
July 22, 2019, 08:21:37 PM
 #4

Fun idea. Gambling/Crypto/trust/history combined. Don't think I will risk it.

yogg
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1596
Merit: 1790


Coldkey™ -- coldkey.eu


View Profile
August 01, 2019, 08:54:48 AM
 #5

LOVE the idea !!

As presented right now, this would be feasible to us.
We can put our hands on some of the cards "scratch ink".
Just a bit of scratch ink, or the whole face, doesn't make a big difference to us.

The only tight spot I see here is distribution.

I guess we could produce them but would have to deliver the whole batch to someone who only then reships.

Having an intermediary sounds a suitable both to avoid conflict of interest risks (oh I send this card to this guy 'cause I like him and I know there's like A LOT on it) and legal issues as well.



What would be the total prize pool ?
How many cards in the first run ?
What would be the #1 prize ?



Let's think about it. Smiley
I won't be able to resell, but I can fund them so someone else resells.  Cool

LoyceV
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1610
Merit: 4619


Largest Merit Circle on BPIP!


View Profile WWW
August 01, 2019, 09:12:22 AM
 #6

What would be the total prize pool ?
How many cards in the first run ?
What would be the #1 prize ?
These are all good questions, but I can't answer any of them. It will depend on how many people are interested, printing cost per ticket, and the "house edge" (if there is any).
With 10 tickets, there's not much to win. With a million tickets, there could be a $100,000 prize (say 10 BTC) and many smaller prizes. Somewhere in between is probably a realistic number.

There's a "risk" though: if lottery addresses are public, blockchain analysis can reveal whether or not a large prize has been redeemed or not, which can influence the value of the remaining tickets.

micgoossens
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 812
Merit: 2569


BTFD, on to 15K a coin !!!!


View Profile
August 01, 2019, 09:44:09 AM
 #7


Now imagine the possibilities if a trustworthy person creates Physical Bitcoin Lotto Scratch Cards:

This person has to be highly trusted (and his printing system too)



So that sounds like someone as MJ should be involved Cheesy

XhomerX10 designed my nice avatar HATs!!!!!  Thanks Bro
yogg
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1596
Merit: 1790


Coldkey™ -- coldkey.eu


View Profile
August 01, 2019, 09:56:18 AM
Last edit: August 01, 2019, 10:36:02 AM by yogg
 #8

What would be the total prize pool ?
How many cards in the first run ?
What would be the #1 prize ?
These are all good questions, but I can't answer any of them. It will depend on how many people are interested, printing cost per ticket, and the "house edge" (if there is any).
With 10 tickets, there's not much to win. With a million tickets, there could be a $100,000 prize (say 10 BTC) and many smaller prizes. Somewhere in between is probably a realistic number.

There's a "risk" though: if lottery addresses are public, blockchain analysis can reveal whether or not a large prize has been redeemed or not, which can influence the value of the remaining tickets.

There are ways to circumvent this blockchain analysis risk by not displaying publicly the lottery addresses.
As keys are not derived from a seed, they shouldn't be any way to deduct them.

What would you think of a run of 100 0.005BTC scratch cards ?
(The proportions would be the same in the event of a lower denomination card)

0.002BTC would go for the card maker, so 0.003BTC left.
For a run of 100 cards, that'd make it 0.3BTC as the prize pool.

We could make 2x 0.05BTC prize, 10x 0.01BTC prize, and 20x0.005BTC prize (basically won no BTC but a collectible card)
In the end, there would be 32 "winning" cards.

1:50 chance to win 0.05BTC
1:10 chance to win 0.01BTC
1:5 chance to win 0.005BTC



If you don't like the entry price of 0.005BTC, this can be changed.
However our production costs are very hardly compressible.



By the way I have checked, and the scratch ink is not available to us for now.
Could we do that with holograms ?

LoyceV
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1610
Merit: 4619


Largest Merit Circle on BPIP!


View Profile WWW
August 01, 2019, 10:38:49 AM
 #9

I think 0.002 BTC production cost is far too high for this to really take off. That's okay for a collectible, but too much for a Lotto to really take off.

This website that I randomly picked from Google offers "US $ 0.03-0.1 / Piece" for 500 pieces or more.

our production costs are very hardly compressible.
Maybe some day a big Lotto company will start making those for Bitcoin. I'm thinking of a $2 scratch card that you buy at a gas station with a chance to win $75000. That's obviously only possible with very large numbers and very cheap production.

yogg
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1596
Merit: 1790


Coldkey™ -- coldkey.eu


View Profile
August 01, 2019, 10:52:35 AM
 #10

I think 0.002 BTC production cost is far too high for this to really take off. That's okay for a collectible, but too much for a Lotto to really take off.

This website that I randomly picked from Google offers "US $ 0.03-0.1 / Piece" for 500 pieces or more.

our production costs are very hardly compressible.
Maybe some day a big Lotto company will start making those for Bitcoin. I'm thinking of a $2 scratch card that you buy at a gas station with a chance to win $75000. That's obviously only possible with very large numbers and very cheap production.

0.002BTC as a production cost is a bit high, I agree.
Maybe for a run that's more than 100 cards, we can work something out.

Or we can use the cards that split in three parts, hence dividing the price of 1 "scratch card" per 3.

Yes, but in the case of a $2 scratch card that you can buy anywhere, it is often a huge entity behind it that guarantees to pay out for the prize.
They do all their printing internally as well. (Please check this video at this timestamp : https://youtu.be/eBAvjx7bYM4?t=1381
(1,5 billion scratch cards per year)

I wouldn't trust any third party with sensitive info like private keys, or "redeem codes" that give access to funds (such as prypto).
These informations have to be on the scratch card in some way.

Question to LoyceV :
If you want to sell these at gas stations, how do you figure out the price of the crypto scratch card in fiat ($$$) ?

LoyceV
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1610
Merit: 4619


Largest Merit Circle on BPIP!


View Profile WWW
August 01, 2019, 11:34:14 AM
 #11

I wouldn't trust any third party with sensitive info like private keys, or "redeem codes" that give access to funds (such as prypto).
These informations have to be on the scratch card in some way.
This works both ways: if the customer claims the funds were taken already when he scratched the cards, the company can't prove the customer himself did it. And the company would have to trust his employees, it could end up being an employee's word against a customer's word, without either one of them being able to prove anything. That won't work, unfortunately Sad

Quote
If you want to sell these at gas stations, how do you figure out the price of the crypto scratch card in fiat ($$$) ?
Again: good question, and again: I can't answer it Tongue
It could be based on the Bitcoin price at the moment it's bought. Or pay in Bitcoin, that solves it Cheesy



"Scratch off stickers" are commercially available at low cost, but I'm not sure how easy they would be to replace to sell a worthless ticket as unused.

LoyceV
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1610
Merit: 4619


Largest Merit Circle on BPIP!


View Profile WWW
August 06, 2019, 09:00:14 AM
 #12

Bump

Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!