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Author Topic: REEE: [US Only] Impeachment Vote  (Read 1133 times)
nutildah
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September 28, 2019, 04:07:55 PM
Merited by suchmoon (4)
 #81

The Ukranian brought up Giuliani, not Trump.

That's correct but I don't understand why Giuliani is involved at all... If you're doing something for the sake of national interest, why involve your personal lawyer? Obviously Giuliani was previously talking to the Ukraine president... why? Just doesn't make sense to me...

RE "looking for information that will put Biden in a good light" etc, the firing of the prosecutor stopped the finding and assessment of information, period. Good or bad. That's what Biden did. I have to say here that I couldn't care less if the findings were good or bad. They are related to the conduct of Biden's son, who is not a political figure. But it matters to Biden.

Why doesn't that sound "horrible?"

What evidence do you have that they are related to the conduct of Biden's son? It would appear that the investigation started prior to Hunter Biden's involvement with Burisma.

Quote
The National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU) said an investigation was ongoing into permits granted by officials at the Ministry of Ecology for the use of natural resources to a string of companies managed by Burisma.

But it said the period under investigation was 2010-2012, and noted that this was before the company hired Hunter Biden.

“Changes to the board of Burisma Limited, which are currently the object of international attention, took place only in May 2014, and therefore are not and never were the subject of (the anti-corruption bureau’s) investigation,” the bureau’s statement said.

Hunter Biden was a director on Burisma’s board from 2014-2018, according to documents filed by the company in Cyprus, where it is registered.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-whistleblower-ukraine-buris/ukraine-agency-says-allegations-against-burisma-cover-period-before-biden-joined-idUSKBN1WC1LV

Actually, this is a great article that tackles the other side, but the author concludes that it requires a much deeper investigation into the matter before any conclusions can be drawn:

Quote
Today, two questions remain.

One is whether it was ethically improper or even illegal for Biden to intervene to fire the prosecutor handling Burisma’s case, given his son’s interests. That is one that requires more investigation and the expertise of lawyers.

The second is whether Biden has given the American people an honest accounting of what happened. The new documents I obtained raise serious doubts about his story’s credibility. And that’s an issue that needs to be resolved by voters.

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September 28, 2019, 04:32:06 PM
 #82

The Ukranian brought up Giuliani, not Trump.

That's correct but I don't understand why Giuliani is involved at all... If you're doing something for the sake of national interest, why involve your personal lawyer? Obviously Giuliani was previously talking to the Ukraine president... why? Just doesn't make sense to me...
I'm sure that's an answerable question.

RE "looking for information that will put Biden in a good light" etc, the firing of the prosecutor stopped the finding and assessment of information, period. Good or bad. That's what Biden did. I have to say here that I couldn't care less if the findings were good or bad. They are related to the conduct of Biden's son, who is not a political figure. But it matters to Biden.

Why doesn't that sound "horrible?"

What evidence do you have that they are related to the conduct of Biden's son? It would appear that the investigation started prior to Hunter Biden's involvement with Burisma.....

Post #60 and... https://www.scribd.com/document/427618359/Shokin-Statement

The evidence is the sworn testimony of the fired prosecutor.

I don't know if Biden's threat to with hold over a billion in US Aid unless his son was let off the hook is illegal under US law.

Something that's gone under the radar is that in the same conversation, Trump asks the Ukranian to look into the matter of the DNC server, which he says is in the hands of a Ukranian oligarche.
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September 28, 2019, 05:12:12 PM
 #83

The video's been out for a while though, and nobody cared about it before this whole Trump Ukraine phone call stuff came to light. I could be mistaken but it sounds like part of the condition for release of the loan was that they fire this particular prosecutor guy. We don't know if it had anything to do with Biden's son -- asserting that it did (at this phase) is pure conjecture. What we do know for sure is that Trump asked a foreign leader for the favor of digging up dirt on a political opponent.

I suppose one good thing that happened is the whole affair shed light on how rampant political cronyism and nepotism is... Seems like Hunter Biden had no qualifications to have his particular job there whatsoever, and that he was just there because his last name is "Biden." Still not a crime, but it is the most unattractive thing about Biden in my eyes thus far (other than him already being pretty milquetoast and uninspiring as a politician).

People certainly did care. Unfortunately the media as well as the top levels of government were so corrupt that even if some one did try to bring attention to it, they would have accidentally choked on a handful of bullets.  The US intelligence agencies had just got done orchestrating a coup in Ukraine, I wonder why that would make the locals weary of bringing prosecution after all of that bloodshed? Of course Trump trying to enforce the law, looking into high level corruption is suspect, but anything about Biden, now well that is pure conjecture!


What does this sound like to you?

https://i.imgur.com/vs9rAv2.png

He's looking for information that will put Biden in a good light?

No. He says "It sounds horrible to me."

Regardless, why is he talking to him about Giuliani? Isn't Giuliani supposed to be Trumps "personal" lawyer? If he really was looking into corruption from a standpoint of national interest, why insist that your personal lawyer meet with the president of a foreign nation?

The whole thing is absurd. Trump is screwed. This is the turd that broke the camel's back. It turns out the camel couldn't carry an infinite amount of turds.

There is no way that anything negative can be constructed from the conversation of Trump in question.

You're entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. At the end of the day, they are only that: opinions.

It sounds to me like he is a president doing his job going after high level corruption of government officials selling influence. This is something that not only is a well known pattern of behavior with Biden, but Obama, as well as the Clintons and others going back as long as they have had influence to sell. He is using Giulian because he has not only been around long enough to know all the dirt and how this mafia operates, but he is some one he has a personal relationship with and can trust. When trying to bust up an international criminal cartel within the highest levels of government within the most powerful nation in the world, that is important.

Trump is in a great position, and he is looking better every day. The only people who think he is screwed let Rachel Maddow do their thinking for them.




That's correct but I don't understand why Giuliani is involved at all... If you're doing something for the sake of national interest, why involve your personal lawyer? Obviously Giuliani was previously talking to the Ukraine president... why? Just doesn't make sense to me...

Well shit, Nutillduhh doesn't understand, obviously there is no good reason then!

What evidence do you have that they are related to the conduct of Biden's son? It would appear that the investigation started prior to Hunter Biden's involvement with Burisma.

Quote
The National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU) said an investigation was ongoing into permits granted by officials at the Ministry of Ecology for the use of natural resources to a string of companies managed by Burisma.

But it said the period under investigation was 2010-2012, and noted that this was before the company hired Hunter Biden.

“Changes to the board of Burisma Limited, which are currently the object of international attention, took place only in May 2014, and therefore are not and never were the subject of (the anti-corruption bureau’s) investigation,” the bureau’s statement said.

Hunter Biden was a director on Burisma’s board from 2014-2018, according to documents filed by the company in Cyprus, where it is registered.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-whistleblower-ukraine-buris/ukraine-agency-says-allegations-against-burisma-cover-period-before-biden-joined-idUSKBN1WC1LV

Actually, this is a great article that tackles the other side, but the author concludes that it requires a much deeper investigation into the matter before any conclusions can be drawn:

Quote
Today, two questions remain.

One is whether it was ethically improper or even illegal for Biden to intervene to fire the prosecutor handling Burisma’s case, given his son’s interests. That is one that requires more investigation and the expertise of lawyers.

The second is whether Biden has given the American people an honest accounting of what happened. The new documents I obtained raise serious doubts about his story’s credibility. And that’s an issue that needs to be resolved by voters.

What evidence do you have Trump was doing anything improper? He asked for an actual investigation into high level corruption that is of international significance. Clearly he is guilty! You know what that call was about, that was Trump essentially saying to the Ukraine president:

"Look I know our nation has been corrupt as fuck and has really harmed your nation, but I am not with those guys. Go ahead and do a legitimate investigation and I will make sure there aren't consequences like the last time you tried to do this."

Interesting we shouldn't jump to conclusions about Biden, but clearly based on nothing Trump is fucked!  You keep bringing up the timeline as if it is evidence in favor of Biden's innocence, it is not. Let me lay out the order of events for you.

A very corrupt company exists in Ukraine. The government is breathing down their necks. In walks Biden who offers to fix their problem for them. Biden's son gets some down payment money for the influence peddling. Joe gets the investigation shut down by demanding the canning of the lead prosecutor of the case. In exchange his son is placed in a very lucrative position on its board, a position for which ha has zero qualifications for.

Hunter is not even qualified to work at McDonald's let alone on a Ukrainian energy firm's board. He literally wouldn't be able to get a job at McDonald's with his drug record. The only significant thing about him is the influence his daddy is peddling. All the elements of a rock solid criminal prosecution are evident. Means, motive, and opportunity.


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September 28, 2019, 05:47:18 PM
 #84

....
What evidence do you have Trump was doing anything improper? He asked for an actual investigation into high level corruption that is of international significance. Clearly he is guilty! You know what that call was about, that was Trump essentially saying to the Ukraine president:

"Look I know our nation has been corrupt as fuck and has really harmed your nation, but I am not with those guys. Go ahead and do a legitimate investigation and I will make sure there aren't consequences like the last time you tried to do this."

Interesting we shouldn't jump to conclusions about Biden, but clearly based on nothing Trump is fucked!  You keep bringing up the timeline as if it is evidence in favor of Biden's innocence, it is not. Let me lay out the order of events for you.

A very corrupt company exists in Ukraine. The government is breathing down their necks. In walks Biden who offers to fix their problem for them. Biden's son gets some down payment money for the influence peddling. Joe gets the investigation shut down by demanding the canning of the lead prosecutor of the case. In exchange his son is placed in a very lucrative position on its board, a position for which ha has zero qualifications for.

Hunter is not even qualified to work at McDonald's let alone on a Ukrainian energy firm's board. He literally wouldn't be able to get a job at McDonald's with his drug record. The only significant thing about him is the influence his daddy is peddling. All the elements of a rock solid criminal prosecution are evident. Means, motive, and opportunity.

However, I can see why the Bidens would like to get him over to the other side of the world...

Former Vice President Joe Biden’s surviving son, Hunter, hasn’t just dumped his wife for his late brother’s widow, he has squandered his family’s money on hookers, strip clubs and drugs....
“His spending rarely relates to legitimate family expenses, but focuses on his own travel (at times multiple hotel rooms on the same night), gifts for other women, alcohol, strip clubs, or other personal indulgences,” Kathleen Biden says of Hunter in the papers filed in Washington, DC, Superior Court on Feb. 23.
...
“Throughout the parties’ separation Mr. Biden has created financial concerns for the family by spending extravagantly on his own interests (including drugs, alcohol, prostitutes, strip clubs, and gifts for women with whom he has sexual relations), while leaving the family with no funds to pay legitimate bills,” Kathleen says of Hunter in the filing.

https://pagesix.com/2017/03/02/ex-claims-hunter-biden-blew-money-on-hookers-drugs/
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September 28, 2019, 09:44:43 PM
 #85

"Pelosi’s House Rule Changes are Key Part of “Articles of Impeachment”, Being Drafted Over Next Two Weeks..."

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/09/28/pelosis-house-rule-changes-are-key-part-of-articles-of-impeachment-being-drafted-over-next-two-weeks/


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September 28, 2019, 10:30:53 PM
 #86

"Pelosi’s House Rule Changes are Key Part of “Articles of Impeachment”, Being Drafted Over Next Two Weeks..."

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/09/28/pelosis-house-rule-changes-are-key-part-of-articles-of-impeachment-being-drafted-over-next-two-weeks/

Overall, The Last Refuge (Conservative Treehouse) far right biased and borderline questionable based on multiple failed fact checks. This source is one failed fact check from moving to the Questionable list.

Nice source you chud.
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September 28, 2019, 10:47:52 PM
Merited by Spendulus (2)
 #87

"Pelosi’s House Rule Changes are Key Part of “Articles of Impeachment”, Being Drafted Over Next Two Weeks..."

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/09/28/pelosis-house-rule-changes-are-key-part-of-articles-of-impeachment-being-drafted-over-next-two-weeks/

Overall, The Last Refuge (Conservative Treehouse) far right biased and borderline questionable based on multiple failed fact checks. This source is one failed fact check from moving to the Questionable list.

Nice source you chud.

As usual, not even an attempt to address any of the contents of the information, just a simple attack on the source (from a hacked account I might add). The usual weak failing attempt at refutation to be expected from the left because they have no actual principles or arguments.


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September 28, 2019, 11:30:06 PM
 #88

....(from a hacked account I might add)....

I see that ... good find! Merited!
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September 29, 2019, 05:37:07 PM
 #89

"Pelosi’s House Rule Changes are Key Part of “Articles of Impeachment”, Being Drafted Over Next Two Weeks..."

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/09/28/pelosis-house-rule-changes-are-key-part-of-articles-of-impeachment-being-drafted-over-next-two-weeks/

Overall, The Last Refuge (Conservative Treehouse) far right biased and borderline questionable based on multiple failed fact checks. This source is one failed fact check from moving to the Questionable list.

Nice source you chud.

As usual, not even an attempt to address any of the contents of the information, just a simple attack on the source (from a hacked account I might add). The usual weak failing attempt at refutation to be expected from the left because they have no actual principles or arguments.

- gets upset about an "attack on the source"
- immediately attacks source of comment without trace of irony

"Rules for thee but not for mee, REEEEE......."

LoL.

So what is Pelosi doing that is illegal again?

I should start a poll, "What excuse will Trumptards use when Trump is impeached by the House?" Then list the obvious options.

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September 29, 2019, 07:00:06 PM
Last edit: September 30, 2019, 12:36:10 AM by TECSHARE
 #90

"Pelosi’s House Rule Changes are Key Part of “Articles of Impeachment”, Being Drafted Over Next Two Weeks..."

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/09/28/pelosis-house-rule-changes-are-key-part-of-articles-of-impeachment-being-drafted-over-next-two-weeks/

Overall, The Last Refuge (Conservative Treehouse) far right biased and borderline questionable based on multiple failed fact checks. This source is one failed fact check from moving to the Questionable list.

Nice source you chud.

As usual, not even an attempt to address any of the contents of the information, just a simple attack on the source (from a hacked account I might add). The usual weak failing attempt at refutation to be expected from the left because they have no actual principles or arguments.

- gets upset about an "attack on the source"
- immediately attacks source of comment without trace of irony

"Rules for thee but not for mee, REEEEE......."

LoL.

So what is Pelosi doing that is illegal again?

I should start a poll, "What excuse will Trumptards use when Trump is impeached by the House?" Then list the obvious options.

Exactly what am I to debate with an alt account presenting no argument except an attack on a source presented? Cute try at being clever, but no cigar.

"koshgel   2019-09-28      Right wing incel. Proceed with CAUTION!!!
koshgel   2019-09-28      TRUST SYSTEM ABUSER. PROCEED WITH CAUTION!!!
koshgel   2019-07-05      Bitter soul. One of those guys that never leaves his house. Mind is so warped that semen is basically coming out of his eyes.

Avoid interactions. Avoid trades. I wouldn't even use escrow. Mental stability is a serious factor with this person. "

Certainly looks like some one presenting a valid argument and clearly not just some pussy with a grudge using a hacked alt to settle a score.


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September 30, 2019, 10:45:12 PM
 #91

"Pelosi’s House Rule Changes are Key Part of “Articles of Impeachment”, Being Drafted Over Next Two Weeks..."

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/09/28/pelosis-house-rule-changes-are-key-part-of-articles-of-impeachment-being-drafted-over-next-two-weeks/

Overall, The Last Refuge (Conservative Treehouse) far right biased and borderline questionable based on multiple failed fact checks. This source is one failed fact check from moving to the Questionable list.

Nice source you chud.

As usual, not even an attempt to address any of the contents of the information, just a simple attack on the source (from a hacked account I might add). The usual weak failing attempt at refutation to be expected from the left because they have no actual principles or arguments.

- gets upset about an "attack on the source"
- immediately attacks source of comment without trace of irony

"Rules for thee but not for mee, REEEEE......."

LoL.

So what is Pelosi doing that is illegal again?

I should start a poll, "What excuse will Trumptards use when Trump is impeached by the House?" Then list the obvious options.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/09/impeachment_bring_it_on_trump_can_put_the_dems_on_trial_in_the_senate.html

Read it to the end, and I would be curious if you think this is a wise or necessary path to go down.
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October 01, 2019, 11:54:19 AM
 #92

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/09/impeachment_bring_it_on_trump_can_put_the_dems_on_trial_in_the_senate.html

Read it to the end, and I would be curious if you think this is a wise or necessary path to go down.

OK, I'm reading it, and I do appreciate your civil demeanor in asking. I'm no fan of the American Thinker but I'm reading it anyway.

Here's some parts I have problems with:

Quote
These forces have no doubt already figured out they can't beat the president at the ballot box.

They did beat Trump at the ballot box. Hillary won the popular vote by almost 3 million votes! They just couldn't get the votes where it mattered, which has been strange to me ever since Bush vs. Gore. But I understand it is what it is.

Quote
the president's enemies have moved on to an entirely ordinary and appropriate telephone call.

This is ridiculous. In no way was the phone call "entirely ordinary and appropriate."

"Congrats on your win, guy. BTW, can you please open investigations into my political opponents for me? We'll set you up with my personal lawyer and you can talk it over with him."

Quote
Everything will be relevant in the Senate trial, and everyone, no exceptions, should be subpoenaed and interrogated under oath.  That means Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, John Brennan, James Comey, Peter Strzok, and the entire gang behind the coup.

That includes Strzok, his girlfriend Lisa Page, Clapper, Brennan, Comey, and whatever Deep State apparatchiks lied to the FISA judge to enable a spying operation on the Trump campaign and transition team — a crime without precedent and one that massively outweighs anything that could credibly be alleged against President Trump.

None of this is going to happen. It does sound like porn for talk radio and news-addicted conservatives, however.

Quote
In their apparent decision to impeach President Trump, the Democrats have taken the final step in the cold civil war they have been waging for nearly three years against a constitutionally elected president and his 63 million+ voters.

Deployment of Trump's recent favorite dog whistle, nice.

Quote
The President's response should be withering, broad, and uncompromising. It should be one that turns his attackers into the hunted, a fate their lies and crimes have more than earned them.

Again, this is just fantasizing. It sounds juicy if this is what you wanted to hear, and why you visited the American Thinker. However, outside of a core bunch of supporters, Trump doesn't have the political or public capital to engage in this kind of thing.

My response to the article is, bring it on.

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October 01, 2019, 01:28:41 PM
 #93

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/09/impeachment_bring_it_on_trump_can_put_the_dems_on_trial_in_the_senate.html

Read it to the end, and I would be curious if you think this is a wise or necessary path to go down.

.....My response to the article is, bring it on.

But is it a wise, or a NECESSARY, path to go down?

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October 01, 2019, 02:07:00 PM
 #94



There are a whole lot of Dems who are realizing that the Dem program is ultimately one of taking freedom away. Dem leaders are appealing to the selfish nature of a bunch of people who can't think well enough to get out there and work for a living. These useless people can't support the Dem leaders, but the others (the workers) will always find a way around supporting the welfare-system that the Dems are promoting. In other words, Dems are in failure mode, and will always be that way.

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October 02, 2019, 04:36:06 PM
 #95

...

This is ridiculous. In no way was the phone call "entirely ordinary and appropriate."

"Congrats on your win, guy. BTW, can you please open investigations into my political opponents for me? ....

One other comment. Is Biden Trump's "political opponent?"

I think not. I think he would become that when he had been deemed the Democrat candidate for president.
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October 03, 2019, 07:39:10 AM
 #96

...

This is ridiculous. In no way was the phone call "entirely ordinary and appropriate."

"Congrats on your win, guy. BTW, can you please open investigations into my political opponents for me? ....

One other comment. Is Biden Trump's "political opponent?"

I think not. I think he would become that when he had been deemed the Democrat candidate for president.

He is the most likely to win the dem nomination, so yes. They certainly are sparring like its a done deal already. Trump is obviously more scared of Biden than any other candidate. He never even mentions them.

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October 03, 2019, 02:15:29 PM
 #97

...

This is ridiculous. In no way was the phone call "entirely ordinary and appropriate."

"Congrats on your win, guy. BTW, can you please open investigations into my political opponents for me? ....

One other comment. Is Biden Trump's "political opponent?"

I think not. I think he would become that when he had been deemed the Democrat candidate for president.

He is the most likely to win the dem nomination, so yes. They certainly are sparring like its a done deal already. Trump is obviously more scared of Biden than any other candidate. He never even mentions them.

I see some rationale in what you are saying, but still I have trouble with that on several fronts.

Let me just ask this.

Consider the incredible assault on Kavanaugh by Democrats with the thinnest shreds of facts. Few Democrats objected to that.

And now POTUS requests politely some looking into Biden's past behavior and it's grounds for impeachment....

Sorry, your favored party doesn't have the reasoning ability to run this country.
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October 03, 2019, 02:48:24 PM
Last edit: October 03, 2019, 03:27:13 PM by BADecker
 #98

Impeachment is for disobeying the law of the government corporation in some ways. A President who investigates corporate government activities by other government people, is absolutely doing his government job.

If a President uses his private capacity to investigate other people privately, that's a different story. A President has as much right to personally investigate other people as anybody does. With the Internet, these days, there is so much info about people listed in the public, that personal investigation of anybody by anybody is being done all the time. If it is personal, it doesn't have anything to do with the government corporation, and is not impeachable.

In this case, Trump has the right and duty to investigate. Why? Because Biden was using his position in government to further his own personal, outside-of-government circumstances by using his government position and power to do it. Biden's son was simply an extension of his father, like your hand is an extension of your arm. This is not acceptable activity for a person in corporate government as Biden was.

Biden was mixing private and public in ways not allowed by his position in the government corporation. The thing that would have been an impeachable offense for Trump would have been if he had NOT investigated the whole Biden situation.

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October 03, 2019, 03:19:33 PM
 #99

Let me just ask this.

Consider the incredible assault on Kavanaugh by Democrats with the thinnest shreds of facts. Few Democrats objected to that.

That issue is neither here nor there. I stayed out of it entirely. But it did make for some great memes.

And now POTUS requests politely some looking into Biden's past behavior and it's grounds for impeachment....

Yes, because there are proper channels for that. Asking for a favor from one president to another isn't one of them. Kavanaugh wasn't anybody's political opponent as he wasn't running in an election against anybody.

Sorry, your favored party doesn't have the reasoning ability to run this country.

Its only my favored party this time around. I'm registered as a Libertarian and last election I voted for Gary Johnson. I'm not really that partisan. I just saw some bullshit being flung in Biden's general direction, looked into it, and discovered that it was designed to counter much weightier bullshit being flung at Trump.

Pretty sure Trump is out as president next time around. He will undoubtedly be replaced by a Democrat. Will it spell the end of America? Unlikely. It never has in the past.

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October 05, 2019, 07:00:21 AM
 #100

"MILITIA'S ACTIVATING ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY!! WE ARE APPROACHING CIVIL WAR?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0edbVmIiZs8

I don't think the left understand how dangerous of a game they are playing here...


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