On Bitcoin and old-timers

[deisik]

It is often said and then repeated that Bitcoin is not for the masses and definitely not for old-timers as it is too difficult to understand:

Well, I can't blame them for that. Americans had been told for years that Bitcoin is a bubble and that investing in it is insanity. Most of them had listened to the advice of "experts" and never invested in Bitcoin, but those who decided to take risks despite the persistent cautions, have made good money along the way.

And now, when BTC after dropping from almost $20k to almost $3k has started rising again instead of going to zero, as those experts predicted, people have decided to stop believing them. Quite a logical decision, if you ask me.

Except they don’t understand the technology of bitcoin fully because if they do, I am not sure that anyone will be able to talk them out of investing in bitcoin or using it as payment system when they know that the se of bitcoin fully protects the user again anyone knowing about the transaction. So, if they really had interest in it from the onset, then they should have already invested in it long time again when they had the chance

But how many of us actually understand how Bitcoin works internally, even partially?

I don't think that many. The truth is, it is not required to be a certified mechanical engineer (or whatever) to drive a car. In some cases you don't even need a driving license. For example, the British queen drives without one and she is an old-timer without reservations. Long story short, you don't need to understand the technology behind Bitcoin to invest in it, though you definitely should understand how the market works. But once you get the hang of it, you are no longer tied to, or constrained by, Bitcoin specifically (and its technology). In other words, everyone should be able to buy low and sell high (okay, invest profitably) these days, and there should be no exception for old-timers, and still less for those to become them one day (read, us)

[jackg]

The issue with old timers as you call them is it's like them with the Internet in general. I've had elderly relatives ask me to repeatedly return their tvs because they keep deleting channels for example.

Really, bitcoin isn't for those who are easy to scam, but a way to stop being easy to scam is to educate yourself a bit more (and not in bitcoin but in general)...

I came to bitcoin from a purely achidemic point, I wanted to know how it ticked but the first couple of transactions I remember making was just having fun back in the start of 2015... I had no care for what it'd one day be worth and was rather happy just fiddling with it (as most should do when they make an investment here, set aside 0.001 or something just to flip on stuff and test the system).


There are 3 main types of investors

1. Savers - the bank is where I keep my money, it earns me enough a year without really doing anything.
2. Dividend investors - while I like the idea that my entire portfolio increases in value, I always like that I can earn it back at the same time over the course of 20-30 years.
3. The storage investor - I get no dividends from my investment, but I'm happy to speculate on it (these are the people who are in bitcoin, precious metals...) They don't care to see that they don't get dividend because these assets don't do too badly on their own...

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Long story short, you don't need to understand the technology behind Bitcoin to invest in it, though you definitely should understand how the market works.

Agree with this 100%.  In fact, it's funny you should give the analogy of not having to understand the inner workings of an automobile in order to drive one--I just explained bitcoin to someone a couple of weeks ago using the same analogy.  That's always been in my mind because I can relate to it personally.  I'm not a mechanic and couldn't fix a car to save my life, but I can certainly drive.  And it's the same thing with bitcoin.  I wish I had the intellectual oomph to learn more about it, but I understand enough and can use it just fine.

I'm pretty sure people are way more familiar with how the market acts than they are with how bitcoin works.  Maybe on a college campus that might be different, but out in the real world I've no doubt that there are more people actually using it than actually understanding the math behind it.

Not sure about "old-timers" though.  There are plenty of older folks with advanced degrees in mathematics and computer science who either do understand bitcoin or who could if they were interested in it.  I do think more of the younger generation will end up pushing crypto forward, though.  That's probably true of any new technology.

[LeGaulois]

Perhaps in some years, they will use a blockchain without knowing it (because their bank uses it, or insurance, medical app, telecom, smart city, etc). When I talk to people about Bitcoin I get different speeches depending on how old they're. (no matter their lifestyle, economic situation,...)

30-45 years old:
They're only interested to invest in and hear about Bitcoin only for its speculative side. They don't know anything about BTC, not even know what is a BTC client

45-60 years old:
They're not interested to use it (nor to invest)... since it can only be used online (and not a lot of merchands accept it) They see no economic benefit.

+ 60 years old: Crazy buy I usually get a "wow! no bank! full control!" reaction. The problem is the internet barrier, not a lot all people from this generation know how to use a laptop, or they just know how to use a browser, email client,... On a side note, I remember a senior who told me Bitcoin is born 50 years too late

[Vispilio]

I believe it predominantly depends on how any given individual chooses to live his life in his / her older years.

If someone appreciates that it's now more likely to live a stronger, healthier, more active life thanks to better technology and understanding of wellness principles, then he can elect to remain energetic and interested in financial / technological actions throughout his life,
and crypto currencies will be relevant for him (and his family) even if he is 100+.

[d5000]

The car analogy is not bad, but it also shows the problems for Bitcoin users with little technical and economical knowledge. (As The Pharmacist wrote, the problem isn't limited to "old timers" but affects all people which lack technical education and/or understanding.)

When I drive a car, I must know what the risks are. If I drive too fast, or drunk, then the risk of an accident becomes much higher. Most people have basic knowledge about the mechanics of driving. But in the case of Bitcoin, it's a little bit more difficult to understand. Some of the risks are:

- trusting an entity that isn't trustworthy (e.g. a scam exchange)
- losing private keys
- getting private keys hacked or stolen by malware
- buying and selling in the wrong moment and losing money

... and so on. It isn't that easy to fully understand these risks and take appropiate action if you have no knowledge about the technical and economical foundations of Bitcoin.

For example, what advice would you give "old timers" to store their Bitcoins? If they chose a PC or phone and thus a solution where they're responsible for their private keys, then they may become exposed to risks like losing the key accidentally or because of a malware infection, so for that they would need to know how to keep their devices in a secure state. If they're chosing third party providers/exchanges/wallets, they could be scammed by them, even if it's the biggest player in the field (like Mt Gox was).

One of the few methods which provides appropiate security for these people are dedicated hardware wallets, but most of them are relatively expensive (not really a product "for the masses").  Paperwallets are a good cheap solution for Bitcoin freaks, but they are not too easy to handle, and also can get stolen (if they're stored in an accessible place) or lost (if they're hidden too well).

And if they do something wrong, there is no State which will protect them, in contrast to a bank account or credit card (Maybe some form of insurance could be a solution?).

So I think most of the time a little bit of knowledge is still needed. I would only recommend Bitcoin to people which are able to maintain their devices malware-free or are willing to spend the money to buy a hardware wallet.

[deisik]

Not sure about "old-timers" though.  There are plenty of older folks with advanced degrees in mathematics and computer science who either do understand bitcoin or who could if they were interested in it

These are far and few in between

They are just sticking out as outliers, that's why they create such an impression. But that's not my point. In today's world investing and being able to invest profitably is a sort of must-have. It doesn't require so much technical knowledge (e.g. knowing Bitcoin's technical aspects) as understanding the market in which it exists. Bitcoin for them will be an investment asset but that's not a bad thing as it keeps Bitcoin popular

+ 60 years old: Crazy buy I usually get a "wow! no bank! full control!" reaction. The problem is the internet barrier, not a lot all people from this generation know how to use a laptop, or they just know how to use a browser, email client,... On a side note, I remember a senior who told me Bitcoin is born 50 years too late

These are outliers obviously

[exstasie]

It is often said and then repeated that Bitcoin is not for the masses and definitely not for old-timers as it is too difficult to understand

But how many of us actually understand how Bitcoin works internally, even partially?

I don't think that many. The truth is, it is not required to be a certified mechanical engineer (or whatever) to drive a car. In some cases you don't even need a driving license. For example, the British queen drives without one and she is an old-timer without reservations. Long story short, you don't need to understand the technology behind Bitcoin to invest in it, though you definitely should understand how the market works. But once you get the hang of it, you are no longer tied to, or constrained by, Bitcoin specifically (and its technology). In other words, everyone should be able to buy low and sell high (okay, invest profitably) these days, and there should be no exception for old-timers, and still less for those to become them one day (read, us)

Most people don't know anything about stock investment either, but they have 401(k)s invested in the stock market. People don't need to understand Bitcoin to understand that other people want it.

As for older folks, there are already plenty who are interested in Bitcoin/crypto as an investment, and some who understand the tech as well. It's just a smaller proportion of the total group when compared to millennials, who have been shown time and time again to be the most aware of and interested in crypto. It's like smartphone adoption. Every young person I see has one in their hand. Not so with older folks, although there are definitely some.

[gentlemand]

Could I explain the proper workings of BTC? Hell no. I'm clueless beyond the surface. Same goes for 95 or more per cent of people who've so far touched it.

It's nothing to do with understanding the workings. All you need to do is be willing to conceive of the principles which are way, way simpler than the existing financial system.

Anyone who spends an hour or two of proper reading would have to be a bit weird not to see at least a glimmer of merit in there somewhere. It's getting over that hump that's beyond most.

Even if someone did come back to me demonstrating some understanding I fully understand why they wouldn't want to put money in at this stage. Us lot are too far gone to be objective about it and there are still plenty of cultish elements that will turn people off.

[Police Indo]

It is often said and then repeated that Bitcoin is not for the masses and definitely not for old-timers as it is too difficult to understand:

-snip-

-snip-

I don't think that many. The truth is, it is not required to be a certified mechanical engineer (or whatever) to drive a car. In some cases you don't even need a driving license. For example, the British queen drives without one and she is an old-timer without reservations. Long story short, you don't need to understand the technology behind Bitcoin to invest in it, though you definitely should understand how the market works. But once you get the hang of it, you are no longer tied to, or constrained by, Bitcoin specifically (and its technology). In other words, everyone should be able to buy low and sell high (okay, invest profitably) these days, and there should be no exception for old-timers, and still less for those to become them one day (read, us)

Does that mean we only rely on luck? I think investing in bitcoin we also need to understand how it works, at least we understand blockchain, because when we understand blockchain, we can find other bitcoins (altcoin), which of course can also generate profits

[Mometaskers]

But how many of us actually understand how Bitcoin works internally, even partially?

I don't think that many. The truth is, it is not required to be a certified mechanical engineer (or whatever) to drive a car. In some cases you don't even need a driving license. For example, the British queen drives without one and she is an old-timer without reservations. Long story short, you don't need to understand the technology behind Bitcoin to invest in it, though you definitely should understand how the market works. But once you get the hang of it, you are no longer tied to, or constrained by, Bitcoin specifically (and its technology). In other words, everyone should be able to buy low and sell high (okay, invest profitably) these days, and there should be no exception for old-timers, and still less for those to become them one day (read, us)

I'm also guilty of this. I only have a vague understanding of how it operates. I just tell myself it's like using a smartphone. I don't know the workings of the hardware nor the coding of the OS but I can use it just fine.

I know enough to know that the price usually recover and that I can make money by buying dips and holding to wait for a rally. I believe many people think the same.

[deisik]

It's nothing to do with understanding the workings. All you need to do is be willing to conceive of the principles which are way, way simpler than the existing financial system

That's what most people don't get either

Fiat money and financial system based on fiat money are infinitely more difficult than Bitcoin in almost every aspect of them. Even on this very forum there are heated debates springing up now and then about how fiat money is actually created and by whom exactly

Some say it is via Central Bank printing money as it sees appropriate at its sole discretion, some claim new money is injected via credit by regular commercial banks. Apart from that, there is no agreement if this new money gets printed out of thin air or it is in fact a collateralized form of money and has some backup

The technical, gory details of actual money circulation in the fiat world are not even slightly touched on here because you can hardly find just two people across the board more or less familiar with the whole process and then make them discuss the matter. I did in fact try exactly that once (and failed)

[Kakmakr]

I travel a lot for work and we recently had a project in Kenya where I was amazed at how people were using a payment system called M-Pesa on their mobile phones. Now, I saw people as young as 10 years old and old people of 70 years that used those old phones to pay for items in the markets.

Necessity force people to adapt and this is clear when you see people trying to adapt to new technologies, just to survive. If you ask the large majority of those people to explain to you how the centralized technology behind M-Pesa works, then they will not be able to tell you, because they simply use the technology and it works. 

[Darker45]

you don't need to understand the technology behind Bitcoin to invest in it, though you definitely should understand how the market works.

If someone wants to invest in Bitcoin, I guess it is imperative that he or she should have the most basic knowledge at least as to what he or she is investing. This is a very basic rule in investment. You do not just invest blindly, or simply because it seems a strong fad these days. You have to at least get to know the fundamentals behind the technology which you are investing into. One cannot simply say I will buy Bitcoin because I heard it is going to hit $50,000 soon.

Questions like what is Bitcoin, how come it has value, what backing does it have to ensure that it will not just suddenly turn into zero, and the like should have been answered first. In other words, investment into something should not be only all about the high and low of price movements. 

[juperos]

I think most speculators have a good understanding of Bitcoin's operating process over the years. But in the field of investment, understanding does not mean that you will act according to knowledge.
I have seen many people say that when Bitcoin's price is about $ 4k, they will put all their money to buy Bitcoin.
But after Bitcoin's price falls to $ 3k3, all of them are silent and do nothing! that is special in the area of investment, not everyone can do what they have said.

[hotforblockchain]

I was thinking that post will be about bitcoin old timers like those who where the first here...
But you are talking about older people in general i guess.. i know that a lot of people from US did in fact invest in BTC but most of them where young people who were excited about tech.

[BitHodler]

I remember my first days here without any understanding of the technical side. I just knew how to install the client and to send funds to an exchange and receive them back in my client.

Technically speaking, that's more than enough for most of the average users, but you quickly find out that the security side is incredibly important because of how you can literally lose all your funds either due to a mistake or hack.

I'm really thankful for businesses to have developed hardware wallets which makes it so much easier and less risky for the average users to deal with crypto. Without these hardware wallets things wouldn't be the same.

Crypto in general by far isn't user friendly or secure enough for the average user-- hardware wallets close that gap where possible and it resulted in way fewer cases of theft and coin loss.

[lixer]

People often say that because they only see the technology of bitcoin as a profit making technology, if people really understand the main purpose of bitcoin, they will understand that it is virtually for everyone, because anyone can make use of bitcoin to make payment at any time, whether rich or poor, in fact satoshi created bitcoin for the masses and not for the rich alone, because rich people have the money to make payment even if government slams very high charges on them.

The reason why people do think it is not for masses is because they feel it is expensive to purchase for trading and even when they are able to purchase, the rich big whales will still push them into panic selling the little one that is with them, but we just need to understand that the main use of cryptocurrency is for payment and not trade alone.

[deisik]

It is often said and then repeated that Bitcoin is not for the masses and definitely not for old-timers as it is too difficult to understand:

-snip-

-snip-

I don't think that many. The truth is, it is not required to be a certified mechanical engineer (or whatever) to drive a car. In some cases you don't even need a driving license. For example, the British queen drives without one and she is an old-timer without reservations. Long story short, you don't need to understand the technology behind Bitcoin to invest in it, though you definitely should understand how the market works. But once you get the hang of it, you are no longer tied to, or constrained by, Bitcoin specifically (and its technology). In other words, everyone should be able to buy low and sell high (okay, invest profitably) these days, and there should be no exception for old-timers, and still less for those to become them one day (read, us)

Does that mean we only rely on luck? I think investing in bitcoin we also need to understand how it works, at least we understand blockchain, because when we understand blockchain, we can find other bitcoins (altcoin), which of course can also generate profits

Well, that's an interesting question

And an open-ended one at that, the one which elicits different answers not necessarily consistent with each other. With Bitcoin specifically, it is actually more like just buying it without going too deep into intricate details of how things work with it (from a technical viewpoint, blockchain or otherwise). In other words, it all turns around buying low and selling high, end of story (okay, you can choose to hold as an extra option). In this way, Bitcoin feels pretty much like gold. Do you care too much about how gold is extracted as long as the bars in your vault are authentic?

Necessity force people to adapt and this is clear when you see people trying to adapt to new technologies, just to survive. If you ask the large majority of those people to explain to you how the centralized technology behind M-Pesa works, then they will not be able to tell you, because they simply use the technology and it works

As they say, necessity is the mother of invention. People are just lazy overall, but if forced or otherwise motivated by external factors and circumstances, they can show miracles of comprehension, marvels of intelligence, and wonders of mental agility (yeah)

[dothebeats]

Personally, I believe that no one should feel the need to know the intricacies of bitcoin up to the tiniest technical detail because that's not how you make use of money, and bitcoin is also considered money so why do people need to do that? Old-timers generally are having a hard time catching up to these new tech that we're having right now though I believe that some of them are not really trying to get out of what they're used to. I have my grandma still using an old passbook-type account and deposit cash manually because that's what she's used to, and we must agree that we must not force people, especially old people to adapt because we know that it's not a fast process to begin with, and the rest of tech springing out in the open came from the young minds as well. Now I'm not saying that we should exclude the old-timers when it comes to bitcoin, but I'm saying that we must not force them as time will come where the system will be overhauled and they'd definitely catch up.

Most old people really are just not that interested with bitcoin so yeah, they could learn it but they choose not to.