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Author Topic: Will Bitcoin mixers be considered illegal by worldwide governments?  (Read 1526 times)
Abiky
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October 03, 2019, 05:02:55 PM
 #141

Bitcoin mixer is very possible for money laundering. but for someone who wants privacy for the transaction this mixer is very useful. but of course the government does not want privacy of one's transactions. whether for the benefit of the government or to prevent dirty money that can escape the government track. but certainly this mixer is not in line with the government system.

Exactly. We could say that Bitcoin mixers are a double-edge sword. They can be used for both good and bad things. Mixers are useful for preserving one's privacy, or for laundering money. While criminals mostly use Fiat currency for money laundering, Bitcoin mixers can become attractive to them if prices stabilize across the market. Of course, the ends don't justify the means. I believe that if centralized mixers want to survive within the mainstream world, they would need to comply with government regulations worldwide. By implementing KYC/AML measures, centralized mixers could remain in the space for a long time. However, this would greatly defeat user's privacy as we know it.

As of now, Bitcoin mixers don't represent much of a threat to the government because they're not widely used within the mainstream world. Once they're used in mass, then expect for governments to take further action against these privacy services. Only then, decentralized solutions will survive as people adopt them for their own benefit. Decentralized mixing services would be completely censorship-resistant, making it harder for governments to take down anytime soon.

Nonetheless, as Blockchain and crypto expand their popularity within the mainstream world, governments will try their best to limit their growth (or stop them in their entirety) in any way possible. It will be up to the people, whenever they will continue to support these innovative technologies or not for the foreseeable future. Time will tell us if Bitcoin mixers are a failed idea or not. Just my opinion Smiley

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October 03, 2019, 05:15:35 PM
 #142

Well, in my opinion only people with shady business who will use a mixer, if you are working right why would you hide your traces? if you can answer this question * from where you got that money? * then you are clear to go, if not then your business is not that clean.
a mixer is a money-laundering machine.

 
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October 03, 2019, 05:24:32 PM
 #143

Bitcoin mixers have a long history since they came into inception some time ago. They've been a viable alternative for people looking towards privacy within their Bitcoin transactions. While Bitcoin mixers are far from being perfect, they're still one of the best solutions for obfuscating transactions from third parties. The only concern would be that mixing services are centralized as they're provided by a middleman. In effect, this brings a single point of failure greatly defeating the purpose of privacy.

We've seen how Bestmixer got shut down by the authorities. They claim that Bestmixer encouraged money laundering activities which resulted in legal action. The truth is that Bitcoin mixers can be used for both good and bad things. Money laundering is mostly done with Fiat than with cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin or Ethereum. Still though, the perception of worldwide governments against mixers/tumblers seems to be different nowadays. Which makes me wonder whenever Bitcoin mixers will be considered illegal by such entities within the future?

If governments ban mixers/tumblers, then they could easily do the same to privacy-oriented cryptocurrencies like Monero and Grin. It's all a matter of power and control over people than anything else. What do you think about this? Huh
Governments are intending to ban crypto themselves not only only mixers. Yes mixers do encourage money laundering as they mix up any trail of btc whatsoever so may it be hacker's money all of them do go through a mixer once before they come out clean. If government comes on banning things then cryptocurrencies at a whole would definitely be the first thing they would be banning.

 
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October 03, 2019, 06:31:32 PM
 #144

Well, in my opinion only people with shady business who will use a mixer, if you are working right why would you hide your traces? if you can answer this question * from where you got that money? * then you are clear to go, if not then your business is not that clean.
a mixer is a money-laundering machine.

LOL you must be joking right? Can you really be so ignorant? If you want the government to keep tracing you and know where you're getting your money from and what you're spending it on be my guest but don't criticize people who want to be wiser.
Maybe you feel safe now because there's nobody knocking on your door or sending you letters but this may change one day. Now your government doesn't care but if Bitcoin ever hits 100k USD you'll not be a normal citizen. Bitcoiners will be seek as cash cows for some of the more corrupt governments.

 
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October 03, 2019, 09:13:55 PM
 #145

Well, in my opinion only people with shady business who will use a mixer, if you are working right why would you hide your traces? if you can answer this question * from where you got that money? * then you are clear to go, if not then your business is not that clean.
a mixer is a money-laundering machine.

LOL you must be joking right? Can you really be so ignorant? If you want the government to keep tracing you and know where you're getting your money from and what you're spending it on be my guest but don't criticize people who want to be wiser.
Maybe you feel safe now because there's nobody knocking on your door or sending you letters but this may change one day. Now your government doesn't care but if Bitcoin ever hits 100k USD you'll not be a normal citizen. Bitcoiners will be seek as cash cows for some of the more corrupt governments.
But wait, are you using crypto to hide how much money you have? why Jeff Bezos net worth on Forbes? no one can take your money from you, if you hide and they catch you, you will pay far more than what you were avoiding, can you live while hiding? like a criminal?

 
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October 03, 2019, 09:31:37 PM
 #146

I don't think that mixers will become illegal, at least not at a global level but they will definetely become more strict regulated. I guess that also depends on each country on an individual level and how are the previous experiences. The biggest threats for governments are illegal activities like money laundering or financing of terrorism so every service that offers possibilities to hide traces or identity will be strongly monitored.
To be sincere, the governments don't care about what you and I think. Mind you, the decentralization aspect of cryptocurrency was the reason why some government are against crypto and the idea of mixing coin is to stay total anonymous which the exact reason some governments are against crypto from the beginning.
What guarantee you that most of the tumbler users are not countries where people are to pay tax on crypto?

 
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October 04, 2019, 03:37:07 PM
 #147

I don't like this mixer idea. It really does help in money laundry and all illegal stuff.
From my view, it should be illegal.

But, this isn't irrelevant. When some one want to take his money to laundry, he wouldn't care about the law enforcement. This existed before btc and mixers and will stay the same way.
I personally don’t support it too because it will end up making the real bitcoin look like it is the one being used for illegal and unlawful transactions, people will not hold the mixer itself., but it is the currency that the government would blame for making illegal activities financially become high.

Bitcoin already has some level of privacy and I feel that is enough so that government can still have some spaces to be able to go after those who are using the cryptocurrency system for bad activities like scamming, money laundry, defrauding of people and many more. But with this mixer, any transaction that it is being used for is kind of close off the radar forever and the government may never be able to track down any illegal activities reported to them.

 
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October 04, 2019, 04:35:57 PM
 #148

Unfortunately, regulation already forces some exchanges to delist anonymous coins, and large exchanges. This is alarming and suggests that all Bitcoin mixers will fall under the control of regulators. However, this is a cryptocurrency, probably mixers will exist no matter what. I think the stronger the regulators will press, the more active will be the development of this kind of mixers.
It is possible that in the future we will come to a crypto world in which everything will be completely centralized.
Not possible, even if governments could somehow take control of bitcoin someone else will devise a way to avoid that and then we will use that cryptocurrency, this is one of the few instances in which having so many altcoins will help us, that way even if governments can block or seize most coins that are similar to bitcoin there will be a few coins that survive and can carry the responsibility of bringing freedom to all of those that want it.



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October 05, 2019, 01:51:27 AM
 #149

Governments are intending to ban crypto themselves not only only mixers. Yes mixers do encourage money laundering as they mix up any trail of btc whatsoever so may it be hacker's money all of them do go through a mixer once before they come out clean. If government comes on banning things then cryptocurrencies at a whole would definitely be the first thing they would be banning.

That's certainly true, mate. The main intent of governments worldwide is not to stop mixers, but the whole crypto ecosystem in its entirely. This specifically applies to privacy-oriented solutions, as they tend to be much more difficult to track or trace for taxation purposes. Cryptocurrencies like Monero, Grin, and other privacy-oriented ones are at high risk from being attacked massively by worldwide governments. The same thing applies to Bitcoin mixers, and non-custodial mixing services. Believe me, the only reason why most governments have been legalizing Bitcoin is because of its transparency. With this, governments will be able to effectively tax every transaction made on the Blockchain with ease. As long as crypto can be taxed, it'll see the green light from worldwide governments.

Now, imagine if Bitcoin would've been an entirely anonymous cryptocurrency. It could become a threat against governments and central banks for the mere reason that it cannot be taxed with ease. Their excuse will be that they're trying to prevent money laundering and other criminal activities when that's not the case. Hopefully, as the crypto ecosystem becomes bigger and stronger over time, governments would be unable to effectively destroy it in its entirety.

Nonetheless, I wouldn't worry too much about Bitcoin mixers since they only represent a fraction of the blockchain network's value. The real deal would be privacy-oriented cryptocurrencies like Monero and Grin with a large number of people using them. If governments decide to ban the exchange from Fiat to a privacy coin, then the previously mentioned cryptocurrencies would become completely worthless within the mainstream world. Just my opinion Smiley

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October 05, 2019, 02:23:26 AM
 #150

I know with bitcoin when bitcoin price still with $200 and I use bitcoin as my payment transaction for sending and receiving in investing project, maybe when bitcoin $200 about 2015 years but until five years later bitcoin still illegal in some country in the world, although bitcoin have increase price year by year and know have raise up.
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October 05, 2019, 03:03:51 AM
 #151


I don't think that mixers will become illegal, at least not at a global level but they will definetely become more strict regulated. I guess that also depends on each country on an individual level and how are the previous experiences. The biggest threats for governments are illegal activities like money laundering or financing of terrorism so every service that offers possibilities to hide traces or identity will be strongly monitored.

Illegal activities are the main reason why government think that way. mixers will help you to hide your transactions, making it private from everyone. Government will think that this might be use in illegal activities, they might not support it since it is against their law, it is to prevent possible things to happen in the future.

 
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October 05, 2019, 09:54:58 AM
 #152

The main concern of government when it comes to cryptos is the anonymity. They suspect that this will lead to illegal activities. So most of the countries are banning untraceable currencies like Monero and now the focus has shifted towards the mixing services too. Sooner or later, such regulations had to come. As the crypto trading volume has increased, government has started taking actions.

 
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October 05, 2019, 11:42:39 AM
 #153

Maybe you feel safe now because there's nobody knocking on your door or sending you letters but this may change one day. Now your government doesn't care but if Bitcoin ever hits 100k USD you'll not be a normal citizen. Bitcoiners will be seek as cash cows for some of the more corrupt governments.
If you are paying your taxes and following the law of the land why would any government targets you. The corrupt governments can manipulate things and with bitcoin you can have the financial freedom you are seeking away from the government if you want to, but if you are converting into your fiat currency make sure you pay your taxes.
All the government needs transparency from their citizens to have a complete control over them and privacy is a dream and hence i am sure we will not see any legal mixers.

 
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October 05, 2019, 02:36:18 PM
 #154

The main concern of government when it comes to cryptos is the anonymity. They suspect that this will lead to illegal activities. So most of the countries are banning untraceable currencies like Monero and now the focus has shifted towards the mixing services too. Sooner or later, such regulations had to come. As the crypto trading volume has increased, government has started taking actions.
You might be right with what you said but the main concern of the government about crypto was the liberation involve which was also what make them believe crypto will be a threat to the economic or lead to obsolete of national currency. An example Libra coin which is totally centralized but the government are somehow against it.

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October 09, 2019, 04:39:12 PM
 #155

The main concern of government when it comes to cryptos is the anonymity. They suspect that this will lead to illegal activities. So most of the countries are banning untraceable currencies like Monero and now the focus has shifted towards the mixing services too. Sooner or later, such regulations had to come. As the crypto trading volume has increased, government has started taking actions.
True but their actions are hollow, someone that is using monero to hide his identity is not going to care much about the legal status of his coins since the governments and its agencies are not going to find him anyway, this creates a problem for the government, how can they possibly enforce such laws? And until they find a way to trace those that are holding monero their actions will carry no consequences, also many of those using those coins are not doing anything illegal with them they just like the privacy the coin gives them.



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October 10, 2019, 12:11:55 AM
 #156

I think, after you look at what happened to popular mixers a couple months ago, you'll see that the authorities will love to take down mixers, because they believe they provide more harm then good.

Bestmixer was supposedly ceased by the authorities and they where hacked which forced them to shut down their operations and it ended up having a domino effect on other mixers as well.

It's rough for mixers now, the government doesn't care about privacy of people who use the mixers and they definetly don't care about the people who use it for illegal purposes, so why wouldn't they try shut it down?

 
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October 10, 2019, 01:06:27 AM
 #157

The main concern of government when it comes to cryptos is the anonymity. They suspect that this will lead to illegal activities. So most of the countries are banning untraceable currencies like Monero and now the focus has shifted towards the mixing services too. Sooner or later, such regulations had to come. As the crypto trading volume has increased, government has started taking actions.

Exactly. Governments truly don't want people to gain anonymity, because of money laundering concerns and tax evasion. They believe that privacy solutions within crypto land, would encourage people to perform such nefarious activities. While it's true that crypto can be used for money laundering and tax evasion, the mere reason that prices are volatile would greatly defeat the purpose. I believe that's why Fiat currencies like the USD and EUR are still used for said illegal activities than crypto itself. Privacy-oriented solutions either via mixers or anonymous protocols should be embraced by everyday people in order to protect their sensitive transaction information being exposed towards malicious actors. After all, privacy is a human right. Some people may say that they "don't have anything to hide', but the truth is that this "is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say" (according to Snowden).

Right now, Bitcoin mixers are the target within worldwide governments. But they'll not stop until they put an end towards every single privacy solution within the blockchain industry. If successful, privacy-oriented coins and mixers will no longer exist within the future. Fortunately, it's becoming harder for governments to tackle crypto's anonymity in part because of its distributed and decentralized nature. In the end, we'll have a stronger Bitcoin capable of withstanding anything on its path. With privacy solutions such as Mimblewimble, Dandelion Protocol, and even CoinJoin-enabled wallets, anyone can still obfuscate their transactions within the Bitcoin blockchain. Hence, governments efforts against centralized mixing services like Bestmixer will turn out to become in vain over time. Just my thoughts Grin

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October 10, 2019, 10:38:45 AM
 #158

Bitcoin mixers are really good for anonymity and crypto world need it. Of course it can be used for both good and bad things, they can be used for preserving one's privacy or for laundering money. Now it is threat to the government, so we can't deny that sooner or later governments will take actions against centralized mixing services.
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October 10, 2019, 11:07:53 AM
 #159

Bitcoin mixers have a long history since they came into inception some time ago. They've been a viable alternative for people looking towards privacy within their Bitcoin transactions. While Bitcoin mixers are far from being perfect, they're still one of the best solutions for obfuscating transactions from third parties. The only concern would be that mixing services are centralized as they're provided by a middleman. In effect, this brings a single point of failure greatly defeating the purpose of privacy.

We've seen how Bestmixer got shut down by the authorities. They claim that Bestmixer encouraged money laundering activities which resulted in legal action. The truth is that Bitcoin mixers can be used for both good and bad things. Money laundering is mostly done with Fiat than with cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin or Ethereum. Still though, the perception of worldwide governments against mixers/tumblers seems to be different nowadays. Which makes me wonder whenever Bitcoin mixers will be considered illegal by such entities within the future?

If governments ban mixers/tumblers, then they could easily do the same to privacy-oriented cryptocurrencies like Monero and Grin. It's all a matter of power and control over people than anything else. What do you think about this? Huh
Bitcoin Mixers aren't actually that bad when it comes to hiding your identity but technically this is really bad for a long future of bitcoin because every satoshi earned through illegal sources is mixed in these mixers and comes out absolutely clean. Moreover, these mixers actually give governments a solid excuse to ban cryptocurrencies as they can be used for money laundering and illegal activities. Even thought these mixers are in spirit of cryptocurrencies as the main agenda of cryptocurrencies is anonymity but still it will be not be a good going if mixers continue to tumble people's money.


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October 10, 2019, 11:41:07 AM
 #160

Bitcoin mixers have a long history since they came into inception some time ago. They've been a viable alternative for people looking towards privacy within their Bitcoin transactions. While Bitcoin mixers are far from being perfect, they're still one of the best solutions for obfuscating transactions from third parties. The only concern would be that mixing services are centralized as they're provided by a middleman. In effect, this brings a single point of failure greatly defeating the purpose of privacy.

We've seen how Bestmixer got shut down by the authorities. They claim that Bestmixer encouraged money laundering activities which resulted in legal action. The truth is that Bitcoin mixers can be used for both good and bad things. Money laundering is mostly done with Fiat than with cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin or Ethereum. Still though, the perception of worldwide governments against mixers/tumblers seems to be different nowadays. Which makes me wonder whenever Bitcoin mixers will be considered illegal by such entities within the future?

If governments ban mixers/tumblers, then they could easily do the same to privacy-oriented cryptocurrencies like Monero and Grin. It's all a matter of power and control over people than anything else. What do you think about this? Huh
Bitcoin Mixers aren't actually that bad when it comes to hiding your identity but technically this is really bad for a long future of bitcoin because every satoshi earned through illegal sources is mixed in these mixers and comes out absolutely clean. Moreover, these mixers actually give governments a solid excuse to ban cryptocurrencies as they can be used for money laundering and illegal activities. Even thought these mixers are in spirit of cryptocurrencies as the main agenda of cryptocurrencies is anonymity but still it will be not be a good going if mixers continue to tumble people's money.
This just brings us back to the old question of is it worth it to screw over random's privacy in order to catch the bad people using those services?

How far is the government allowed to sneak into our lives and monitor us to justify them catching criminals and stopping crime?

I'm still under the impression that mixers are not at fault here and it's instead the government's fault they aren't able to catch the criminals. Mixers are still traceable btw, especially if volume is high enough.

 
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