How can buying 1Th/s machines now be profitable?!?

[romang]

ebay users also pay 150-200% spot price for gold and silver

This is true u can buy silver from silvertown and then sell it back on ebay for a profit but the fees eat up most of the profits and ebay only gets richer.

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[ChuckBuck]

ebay users also pay 150-200% spot price for gold and silver

This is true u can buy silver from silvertown and then sell it back on ebay for a profit but the fees eat up most of the profits and ebay only gets richer.

That's the one thing I dread selling anything on eBay is the fees.

Selling anything of value, that 10% plus listing plus reserve really kill any profits you think may be getting.

I hate eBay/Paypal for this among a multitude of reasons.

[Entropy-uc]

*smirk*   
yup - sure are

$1750 bitfury (~17BTC) has made over 18BTC already and is still running at 260GH
any antminer bought at >3BTC has already broken even
all my other antminers will break even by mid august at the lastest
my antminer S2 should pay off no later than october

at that point, I will still have >4TH of paid-for equipment mining 'free' by the end of 2014. If bitcoin is still around (i think it will) and value goes up (it will if it stays around) then these machines could be viable to operate right into early 2015 on a profit

You really don't understand the risk.  For every bitfury, there are 10x as many BFLs and Hashfasts.  I know of one person on this board that paid 6800 BTC to hashfast and still doesn't have a single Gh/s to show for it.  All it takes is one mistake to wipe you out.  Whether it's a defective board that starts a fire, downtime you never anticipated, an exchange that goes belly up with your money there are hundreds of ways to lose as a miner.  And only one mistake is needed to wipe you out.

For example, Activemining.  Ken has taken 20000 BTC and turned it into less than 1 Th/s of operating gear.  You invested in that right?

As I said before, it only takes one mistake to turn all your work into a loss.

[ChuckBuck]

*smirk*   
yup - sure are

$1750 bitfury (~17BTC) has made over 18BTC already and is still running at 260GH
any antminer bought at >3BTC has already broken even
all my other antminers will break even by mid august at the lastest
my antminer S2 should pay off no later than october

at that point, I will still have >4TH of paid-for equipment mining 'free' by the end of 2014. If bitcoin is still around (i think it will) and value goes up (it will if it stays around) then these machines could be viable to operate right into early 2015 on a profit

You really don't understand the risk.  For every bitfury, there are 10x as many BFLs and Hashfasts.  I know of one person on this board that paid 6800 BTC to hashfast and still doesn't have a single Gh/s to show for it.  All it takes is one mistake to wipe you out.  Whether it's a defective board that starts a fire, downtime you never anticipated, an exchange that goes belly up with your money there are hundreds of ways to lose as a miner.  And only one mistake is needed to wipe you out.

For example, Activemining.  Ken has taken 20000 BTC and turned it into less than 1 Th/s of operating gear.  You invested in that right?

As I said before, it only takes one mistake to turn all your work into a loss.

But that's if you go the preorder route.  Everyone knows that preorders are uncertain delivery dates if at all.

If you order in hand, or anything that ships within a week from a reputable seller like Bitmain, you have a great shot at ROI.

I think 99% of Bitmain customers can attest to the low risk involved with buying from them.

[Entropy-uc]

*smirk*   
yup - sure are

$1750 bitfury (~17BTC) has made over 18BTC already and is still running at 260GH
any antminer bought at >3BTC has already broken even
all my other antminers will break even by mid august at the lastest
my antminer S2 should pay off no later than october

at that point, I will still have >4TH of paid-for equipment mining 'free' by the end of 2014. If bitcoin is still around (i think it will) and value goes up (it will if it stays around) then these machines could be viable to operate right into early 2015 on a profit

You really don't understand the risk.  For every bitfury, there are 10x as many BFLs and Hashfasts.  I know of one person on this board that paid 6800 BTC to hashfast and still doesn't have a single Gh/s to show for it.  All it takes is one mistake to wipe you out.  Whether it's a defective board that starts a fire, downtime you never anticipated, an exchange that goes belly up with your money there are hundreds of ways to lose as a miner.  And only one mistake is needed to wipe you out.

For example, Activemining.  Ken has taken 20000 BTC and turned it into less than 1 Th/s of operating gear.  You invested in that right?

As I said before, it only takes one mistake to turn all your work into a loss.

But that's if you go the preorder route.  Everyone knows that preorders are uncertain delivery dates if at all.

If you order in hand, or anything that ships within a week from a reputable seller like Bitmain, you have a great shot at ROI.

I think 99% of Bitmain customers can attest to the low risk involved with buying from them.

What's the warranty on Ants?  I see anecdotes here that make me think failure rates are running over 20%.  If your breakeven is 60 days and the hardware is a brick in 90, you aren't even covering your expenses.

Then you have the labor involved in keep acceptable uptime.  How many times do you want to drive to your hosting location at 3 am?  Do you like the idea of never leaving town on vacation?  Or how well do you sleep with the noise and heat and fire risk in your own home?

Ants have had a good run.  It's probably over now.  Mining hardware buys tend to run in cycles.  Early on, it's a good move.  Then it rapidly swings into losses.  If you are naive about what is entailed in running a profitable operation you can easily be losing money without realizing it.

Don't get me wrong, I've been mining at scales >0.5 % of the network for years now.  If you made the wrong decisions in 2013, bitcoin appreciation still made you huge profits.  Expecting to get bailed out that way again is naive.

[ChuckBuck]

*smirk*   
yup - sure are

$1750 bitfury (~17BTC) has made over 18BTC already and is still running at 260GH
any antminer bought at >3BTC has already broken even
all my other antminers will break even by mid august at the lastest
my antminer S2 should pay off no later than october

at that point, I will still have >4TH of paid-for equipment mining 'free' by the end of 2014. If bitcoin is still around (i think it will) and value goes up (it will if it stays around) then these machines could be viable to operate right into early 2015 on a profit

You really don't understand the risk.  For every bitfury, there are 10x as many BFLs and Hashfasts.  I know of one person on this board that paid 6800 BTC to hashfast and still doesn't have a single Gh/s to show for it.  All it takes is one mistake to wipe you out.  Whether it's a defective board that starts a fire, downtime you never anticipated, an exchange that goes belly up with your money there are hundreds of ways to lose as a miner.  And only one mistake is needed to wipe you out.

For example, Activemining.  Ken has taken 20000 BTC and turned it into less than 1 Th/s of operating gear.  You invested in that right?

As I said before, it only takes one mistake to turn all your work into a loss.

But that's if you go the preorder route.  Everyone knows that preorders are uncertain delivery dates if at all.

If you order in hand, or anything that ships within a week from a reputable seller like Bitmain, you have a great shot at ROI.

I think 99% of Bitmain customers can attest to the low risk involved with buying from them.

What's the warranty on Ants?  I see anecdotes here that make me think failure rates are running over 20%.  If your breakeven is 60 days and the hardware is a brick in 90, you aren't even covering your expenses.

Then you have the labor involved in keep acceptable uptime.  How many times do you want to drive to your hosting location at 3 am?  Do you like the idea of never leaving town on vacation?  Or how well do you sleep with the noise and heat and fire risk in your own home?

Ants have had a good run.  It's probably over now.  Mining hardware buys tend to run in cycles.  Early on, it's a good move.  Then it rapidly swings into losses.  If you are naive about what is entailed in running a profitable operation you can easily be losing money without realizing it.

Don't get me wrong, I've been mining at scales >0.5 % of the network for years now.  If you made the wrong decisions in 2013, bitcoin appreciation still made you huge profits.  Expecting to get bailed out that way again is naive.

Ants have a 90 Day warranty if you don't overclock them.

Personally I don't have a heat or fire risk in my situation, and always slap an extra fan besides the default Ants come with.

Once they're mining, I don't mess with them.  Only time I change anything is to maybe change pools once a week if that.

Did you factor cheap or no electricity costs after you posted?

[klondike_bar]

*smirk*   
yup - sure are

$1750 bitfury (~17BTC) has made over 18BTC already and is still running at 260GH
any antminer bought at >3BTC has already broken even
all my other antminers will break even by mid august at the lastest
my antminer S2 should pay off no later than october

at that point, I will still have >4TH of paid-for equipment mining 'free' by the end of 2014. If bitcoin is still around (i think it will) and value goes up (it will if it stays around) then these machines could be viable to operate right into early 2015 on a profit

You really don't understand the risk.  For every bitfury, there are 10x as many BFLs and Hashfasts.  I know of one person on this board that paid 6800 BTC to hashfast and still doesn't have a single Gh/s to show for it.  All it takes is one mistake to wipe you out.  Whether it's a defective board that starts a fire, downtime you never anticipated, an exchange that goes belly up with your money there are hundreds of ways to lose as a miner.  And only one mistake is needed to wipe you out.  you compare the risk of a pre-order to the price of a product that is actually delivered (which IME creates a profit)

For example, Activemining.  Ken has taken 20000 BTC and turned it into less than 1 Th/s of operating gear.  You invested in that right? I did - but i sold all my shares when btct was closing down

As I said before, it only takes one mistake to turn all your work into a loss.

But that's if you go the preorder route.  Everyone knows that preorders are uncertain delivery dates if at all.

If you order in hand, or anything that ships within a week from a reputable seller like Bitmain, you have a great shot at ROI.

I think 99% of Bitmain customers can attest to the low risk involved with buying from them.

What's the warranty on Ants?  I see anecdotes here that make me think failure rates are running over 20%.  If your breakeven is 60 days and the hardware is a brick in 90, you aren't even covering your expenses.  Absolutely not. failure rates are far lower than 1/10 if not less than 1/40.

Then you have the labor involved in keep acceptable uptime.  How many times do you want to drive to your hosting location at 3 am?  Do you like the idea of never leaving town on vacation?  Or how well do you sleep with the noise and heat and fire risk in your own home?  ive set up my farm to run problem-free for days at a time, and with a remotre terminal for when i need to do something simple. Im working on making it weeks between visits, but i just like visiting it anyways

Ants have had a good run.  It's probably over now.  Mining hardware buys tend to run in cycles.  Early on, it's a good move.  Then it rapidly swings into losses.  If you are naive about what is entailed in running a profitable operation you can easily be losing money without realizing it.  antminer pricing is well paced to the bitcoin difficulty. still a good buy at current price, especially if you have coupons

Don't get me wrong, I've been mining at scales >0.5 % of the network for years now.  If you made the wrong decisions in 2013, bitcoin appreciation still made you huge profits.  Expecting to get bailed out that way again is naive.

[Trongersoll]

I just read the OP and it occurred to me that the poster doesn't know the meaning of the word "profit". 

[ionux]

You can get 1TH for about $3k, $4k at the most.

From someone who just took the plunge it cost me $3500 and I'm mining about 10% more than the mining calculator predicted and I'll break even in about 3 weeks.

This.

I keep reading these "mining is not profitable" threads that pop up quite often and it's simply not the case.  Mining is hugely profitable given a high enough hashrate on readily available equipment.  If it weren't profitable, you wouldn't be seeing these super large private mining data centers popping up.  I honestly think people want to keep spreading this FUD to keep people out of mining and make more money for themselves. 

[mrdeposit]

You can get 1TH for about $3k, $4k at the most.

From someone who just took the plunge it cost me $3500 and I'm mining about 10% more than the mining calculator predicted and I'll break even in about 3 weeks.

This.

I keep reading these "mining is not profitable" threads that pop up quite often and it's simply not the case.  Mining is hugely profitable given a high enough hashrate on readily available equipment.  If it weren't profitable, you wouldn't be seeing these super large private mining data centers popping up.  I honestly think people want to keep spreading this FUD to keep people out of mining and make more money for themselves. 

This^^^

[Syke]

I keep reading these "mining is not profitable" threads that pop up quite often and it's simply not the case.  Mining is hugely profitable given a high enough hashrate on readily available equipment.  If it weren't profitable, you wouldn't be seeing these super large private mining data centers popping up.  I honestly think people want to keep spreading this FUD to keep people out of mining and make more money for themselves. 

Huge farms are built on wholesale/at-cost prices. Yes, those are nicely profitable. But retails prices for most miners are much more expensive, and unlikely to turn a profit in a reasonable amount of time.

[superresistant]

You can get 1TH for about $3k, $4k at the most.
From someone who just took the plunge it cost me $3500 and I'm mining about 10% more than the mining calculator predicted and I'll break even in about 3 weeks.

This.
I keep reading these "mining is not profitable" threads that pop up quite often and it's simply not the case.  Mining is hugely profitable given a high enough hashrate on readily available equipment.  If it weren't profitable, you wouldn't be seeing these super large private mining data centers popping up.  I honestly think people want to keep spreading this FUD to keep people out of mining and make more money for themselves. 

Yeah great advice.
Mining is profitable everyone ! Keep buying hardware. Give money to ASIC manufacturers.
They sell you hardware to make you rich of course.

[ionux]

You can get 1TH for about $3k, $4k at the most.
From someone who just took the plunge it cost me $3500 and I'm mining about 10% more than the mining calculator predicted and I'll break even in about 3 weeks.

This.
I keep reading these "mining is not profitable" threads that pop up quite often and it's simply not the case.  Mining is hugely profitable given a high enough hashrate on readily available equipment.  If it weren't profitable, you wouldn't be seeing these super large private mining data centers popping up.  I honestly think people want to keep spreading this FUD to keep people out of mining and make more money for themselves. 

Yeah great advice.
Mining is profitable everyone ! Keep buying hardware. Give money to ASIC manufacturers.
They sell you hardware to make you rich of course.

I'm happily giving money to Bitmain and happily making more in return.  It's called "investing".

But, I believe you are referring to all the pre-order crap so many asic companies are doing these days and I agree with that point.  Pre-orders are interest-free loans for the hardware makers.

[klondike_bar]

You can get 1TH for about $3k, $4k at the most.
From someone who just took the plunge it cost me $3500 and I'm mining about 10% more than the mining calculator predicted and I'll break even in about 3 weeks.

This.
I keep reading these "mining is not profitable" threads that pop up quite often and it's simply not the case.  Mining is hugely profitable given a high enough hashrate on readily available equipment.  If it weren't profitable, you wouldn't be seeing these super large private mining data centers popping up.  I honestly think people want to keep spreading this FUD to keep people out of mining and make more money for themselves. 

Yeah great advice.
Mining is profitable everyone ! Keep buying hardware. Give money to ASIC manufacturers.
They sell you hardware to make you rich of course.

when you invent a quality product, i expect you to sell it to me at cost. Why would i want you to make a profit off me?

its called capilaism. people buy machines at the posted price. some of the prices are low enough that a miner can get a tidy profit. other prices, particularly pre-orders, are overpriced and a bad investment.

I don't understand why everyone who says mining isnt profitable assumes it is a blanket statement as though an antminer is equally bad investment to a BFL product

[smooth]

If your breakeven is 60 days and the hardware is a brick in 90, you aren't even covering your expenses.

I know math is hard but if your breakeven is 60 days and you mine for 90 days you are making a profit.

If you can break even on an investment in 60 days, I'd say you are doing pretty well.

[Entropy-uc]

If your breakeven is 60 days and the hardware is a brick in 90, you aren't even covering your expenses.

I know math is hard but if your breakeven is 60 days and you mine for 90 days you are making a profit.

If you can break even on an investment in 60 days, I'd say you are doing pretty well.

Only if you steal everything else required to operate the machine.  Wait until the taxes and customs bills arrive for your Ants.

[mrdeposit]

If your breakeven is 60 days and the hardware is a brick in 90, you aren't even covering your expenses.

I know math is hard but if your breakeven is 60 days and you mine for 90 days you are making a profit.

If you can break even on an investment in 60 days, I'd say you are doing pretty well.

Only if you steal everything else required to operate the machine.  Wait until the taxes and customs bills arrive for your Ants.

Some of us don't have customs bills and only taxed on the profit... So yes, mining is profitable.

[smooth]

If your breakeven is 60 days and the hardware is a brick in 90, you aren't even covering your expenses.

I know math is hard but if your breakeven is 60 days and you mine for 90 days you are making a profit.

If you can break even on an investment in 60 days, I'd say you are doing pretty well.

Only if you steal everything else required to operate the machine.  Wait until the taxes and customs bills arrive for your Ants.

Either you breakeven in 60 days or you don't. In reality 90-120 days has been more accurate. That's still a pretty good investment.

No import taxes in the US.

[Entropy-uc]

No import taxes in the US.

LOL.  I have a stack of bills from DHL for import duties on miners that say otherwise.  I takes a month or 2 for the bills to catch up with the shipments.

Sounds like quite a few of you are in for an unpleasant surprise.

[smooth]

LOL.  I have a stack of bills from DHL for import duties on miners that say otherwise.  I takes a month or 2 for the bills to catch up with the shipments.

Sounds like quite a few of you are in for an unpleasant surprise.

You should not be getting charged import duties on miners from China to the US. The rate on computer equipment and components is 0%. I have no idea what the rules are if you bought from KnC or someone else not in China.

DHL might be billing you a customs clearance service charge (this is distinct from taxes) or something else, or DHL or the shipper might be misclassifying the item.

It is a lot longer than a month or two since I started ordering miner from China to the US. No tax bills.