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Author Topic: [NEW] 🚀 Rocketpot.io | 2,500+ Games 🎰 | 10% Cashback 💰  (Read 9404 times)
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September 20, 2019, 06:40:43 PM
 #141

FWIW I think there's nothing wrong with having jackpots that are not provably fair, as it's quite difficult to come up with new robust provably fair schemes -- but it's highly unethical to represent something as provably fair that isn't.

Agreed. In theory, many things could make the game unfair, like ill intentioned connection issues, bankroll limitations or manipulation, manipulated forced cashouts and so on. We will continue to work to be as open as possible and will keep improving our system, the explanation of the system and the handy round result verifier.

of course , it's no problem with not fair jackpot.
because it's a gambling, and also who on earth want play busta clone just for jackpot.
even without jackpot if they lucky enough it still profitable.

You are sponsoring their logo in your avatar and your signature therefore it is no surprise you hold the views you express

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September 20, 2019, 07:22:22 PM
 #142

FWIW I think there's nothing wrong with having jackpots that are not provably fair, as it's quite difficult to come up with new robust provably fair schemes -- but it's highly unethical to represent something as provably fair that isn't.

Agreed. In theory, many things could make the game unfair, like ill intentioned connection issues, bankroll limitations or manipulation, manipulated forced cashouts and so on. We will continue to work to be as open as possible and will keep improving our system, the explanation of the system and the handy round result verifier.

of course , it's no problem with not fair jackpot.
because it's a gambling, and also who on earth want play busta clone just for jackpot.
even without jackpot if they lucky enough it still profitable.

You are sponsoring their logo in your avatar and your signature therefore it is no surprise you hold the views you express

its not "only" because i support this game, but the fact because we know exactly , jackpot just like a figure of speech.
i mean,did u want spend ur money for a jackpot , rather than get a quick profit on x 4 or 5 , because u exactly know jackpot its seems imposible to get, X50/X250/X1000.



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September 20, 2019, 07:47:45 PM
 #143

I still cannot understand why a new gaming website with no provable track record would not be a registered LLC or other incorporation which would allow game players to at least know to try to hold to account in the event any scam or theft ever took place. Existing sites with years upon years of history and excellent customer services are exceptions but any new website trying to muscle in or that territory should surely cover all angles to bring in new users.

This is in progress and we expect to be ready early next week.

Thank you for the update.

If you add that little bit of extra transparency (LLC or other incorporation) to your terms and conditions it will be a positive step.

I hope it will bring in new traffic to your website from players that might currently be hesitant to participate.

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September 22, 2019, 11:47:24 AM
 #144

The wheel spin result is provably fair in the sense that the wheel spin and player selection is determined by bits from a hash that we could not have chosen (just like as any crash game that uses a chain of hashes that is salted by a random event like Bustabit or any Bustabit clone).  

We have been working on a handy verifier for the selection of who spun the jackpot wheel. It is based on multiple random factors like bet size, usernames participating in the round, and bits from the round hash. Rounds can be verified here: https://jsfiddle.net/kyawgjmv/embedded/result

Except that's not what provably fair means. You can directly control who wins the jackpot, if you have a house-player. And there's absolutely zero way for people to have any idea if you're doing it or not.

That's not bad per se, and doesn't mean you're cheating. But it means it's not provably fair. Full stop. Any attempt to market is as provably fair is dishonest.


Quote
Any crash game that limits max profits per round has the same issue, even without jackpot.

If the house can predict multipliers in advance, they can cheat without getting noticed by reducing the player’s EV. Auto cashout limits the round win to a percentage of the bankroll, so if a round that will go high is coming up, the house can just place big bot bets on this round, forcing earlier cashout for the real players.

Actually you have a (small) point.  In bustabit for instance there's a "forced cashout" when the server will cash people out due to a per-game stop-loss being hit. And you're right, this is not provably fair. But it's also why bustabit tries so hard to make it so hard for this to ever happen. Like such that it it doesn't even accept single bets that could trigger it. I suspect it hasn't even happened at all in the last year, so in reality it's just not a real issue. But you're right on this point.  But there's several orders of magnitude difference.

Quote
Even though there is a theoretical possibility for the operator to see game results in advance (like in any other crash game), we've removed such possibility technically. The seed used to generate the hashes chain is multi-part (n out of n, where n is >= 2). And there is no access to the server storing the generated hashes chain either (any software updates are done the other way around, by pulling changes by the server).

Even if the house knows multipliers, there is still no guaranteed way to cheat, as higher bet chance is limited (win chance is normalized by bet amount) and users sorted before draw. So as long as players can freely join the rounds that win jackpot, the house can only increase own win chances, but not guarantee the win). In addition to that, it is up to the bankrollers to benefit from this scenario since the house would essentially become a high-roller

I think you're smart enough to know this is technobabble. Before the round starts the house has all the information it needs to know who will win the jackpot. It also has the ability to control who joins the rounds (which dictates who wins). It can *very* easily add extra players and modify the bet amounts such that the house player wins. The house can trivially brute force even a million combinations in a fraction of a second to find out which combination will result in the house winning, and then execute that one.


---


Anyway your response to this is extremely disappointing to say the least. There were two obvious ways to correctly handle this situation:

a) Make the jackpot provably fair

There's a few ways to do this, one neat way would be run a verifiable-delay-functions on the game player bet list, where each client also sends a randomized seed with their bet. Then if the game goes over XXX you use that result to calculate the jackpot winner.


b) Just let everyone know "our multipliers are provably fair but our jackpots aren't! it's just a bonus"


but instead you've decided to go down the third pat, and just spout nonsense and misrepresent it as something it's clearly not. I would encourage people to not play here until your marketing matches reality.




@TheRocketman

Please could you reply to the above post because RHavar raises excellent points.

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September 24, 2019, 07:48:12 PM
 #145

I noticed that your signature campaign has ended only after 3 weeks. May I know the reason? Wasn't that profitable? Stopping the signature campaign after only three weeks is not a good sign. It seems that you have not reached your goals.
Also as I see in your website, the number of people playing never exceed 5.
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September 25, 2019, 10:52:26 AM
 #146

The wheel spin result is provably fair in the sense that the wheel spin and player selection is determined by bits from a hash that we could not have chosen (just like as any crash game that uses a chain of hashes that is salted by a random event like Bustabit or any Bustabit clone). 

We have been working on a handy verifier for the selection of who spun the jackpot wheel. It is based on multiple random factors like bet size, usernames participating in the round, and bits from the round hash. Rounds can be verified here: https://jsfiddle.net/kyawgjmv/embedded/result

Except that's not what provably fair means. You can directly control who wins the jackpot, if you have a house-player. And there's absolutely zero way for people to have any idea if you're doing it or not.

That's not bad per se, and doesn't mean you're cheating. But it means it's not provably fair. Full stop. Any attempt to market is as provably fair is dishonest.

You are right in the sense that it is technically possible to manipulate who wins the Jackpot, and for this reason we have clarified our specifications of the system on https://rocketpot.io/provably-fair/. On this URL, we make it clear that the outcomes can be verified with the given player list: “Given the player list (that consists of player names and their bets) and round hash, anyone can verify the player selection result.”.

More generally - it is indeed very hard to completely prove the fairness since the house/server can influence which wagers get processed or not. Winning wagers could get timed out and never processed, or there could be other creative ways for the house to reject or limit winning wagers, even in a simple dice game.

a) Make the jackpot provably fair

There's a few ways to do this, one neat way would be run a verifiable-delay-functions on the game player bet list, where each client also sends a randomized seed with their bet. Then if the game goes over XXX you use that result to calculate the jackpot winner.
That would also hit pretty much the same problem we started with, just making it a matter of processing power cost to manipulate the player list. Once the jackpot is big enough, it would be profitable to spend computing power and resources to Brute Force VDF as the house could add its house player’s seed. Also, it would introduce a player list trust issue since the player list would have to be posted to a trusted 3rd party (like a blockchain) before the round starts.

We’ve also considered using a delayed source of random, such as a block hash from Ethereum (averages less than 30 sec), using the first occurrence since the round started. But that also hits player’s list trust and doesn’t remove the possibility of a house player to just bet high in rounds with high multiplier (the jackpot wheel will spin).

b) Just let everyone know "our multipliers are provably fair but our jackpots aren't! it's just a bonus"
The multipliers are mathematically proven to be fair. We are currently unable to prove mathematically that anyone that wants to wager on them is able to do so in a fair way (internet timeouts, house players that can in theory manipulate  the auto cashout). However, this seems to be the case for all the other provably fair multiplier games with bankroll and profit limits.

And the jackpots have a theoretically similar problem: The wheel spin stop is mathematically proven to be fair, but we are currently unable to prove mathematically that anyone who wants to wager on it is able to do so at all, lest in a fair way.

I hope this clarifies it somewhat. Please note it was not our intention to be misleading and we are working on making the game as ‘provably fair’ as possible.  

I’d like to add that we’ve had some players win some fairly big jackpots already and have paid them out, user Bsky being one of them (he posted in this earlier). We’re also working on a page that will be listing all the biggest jackpot wins and the players who won them (with a link to the round).

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September 25, 2019, 01:07:13 PM
 #147

I noticed that your signature campaign has ended only after 3 weeks. May I know the reason? Wasn't that profitable? Stopping the signature campaign after only three weeks is not a good sign. It seems that you have not reached your goals.
Also as I see in your website, the number of people playing never exceed 5.

yes, i think that's a pity, too Undecided was also a participant and everything went smoothly.
only the handling of the site is only possible via mobile phone. as already mentioned on the last pages there was a problem with my computer or it doesn't work. but it works really well via the iphone.

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September 25, 2019, 04:34:52 PM
 #148

I noticed that your signature campaign has ended only after 3 weeks. May I know the reason? Wasn't that profitable? Stopping the signature campaign after only three weeks is not a good sign. It seems that you have not reached your goals.
Also as I see in your website, the number of people playing never exceed 5.

yes, i think that's a pity, too Undecided was also a participant and everything went smoothly.
only the handling of the site is only possible via mobile phone. as already mentioned on the last pages there was a problem with my computer or it doesn't work. but it works really well via the iphone.

It is usual thing in this forum where there are many sites stop the campaign after few weeks only. The possible reason is that the campaign does not work as expected so they stop it because it is not worth the money the spend on the campaign. Most people in this forum suggest gambling sites to have signature campaign as the best marketing strategy but it wont be effective if there is no other attractive things offered by the site.

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September 25, 2019, 04:36:11 PM
 #149

I hope this clarifies it somewhat. Please note it was not our intention to be misleading and we are working on making the game as ‘provably fair’ as possible.  

There's easy-enough ways to make the jackpot a lot closer to provably fair, like using a (verifiable) delay function on the player-list. Actually it wouldn't even need to be cheap to verify, as people don't need to do so in real time.

As you said, even with that, you could also use house-players to increase your chance of winning. But at least that's something that would be a bit more obvious (amount of volume spikes before each jackpot, making something someone expected to be +EV to -EV).

Anyway, the real fix is just being honest and direct that the jackpots are not provably fair, and retracting previous claims. As really they have none of the guarantees expected of provably fair. I think it's a big deal, considering it seems like the vast-majority of your users are playing for the jackpot (all the 1.01x bets) so it's very important they are aware it's not provably fair in any sense (i.e. you could trivially win them all, or make a particular user lose them all in a non-detectible way)

Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of.
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September 26, 2019, 09:12:53 AM
 #150

It is usual thing in this forum where there are many sites stop the campaign after few weeks only. The possible reason is that the campaign does not work as expected so they stop it because it is not worth the money the spend on the campaign. Most people in this forum suggest gambling sites to have signature campaign as the best marketing strategy but it wont be effective if there is no other attractive things offered by the site.

well so many campaigns i hadn't seen yet that were stopped after only 3 weeks. but i think the success of additional revenues or people who gambled the signature rewards directly were not big/high enough Grin
but maybe we'll get an official statement about it. if not, but not further tragic... i liked the campaign + website Smiley

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September 30, 2019, 07:21:00 AM
 #151

It is usual thing in this forum where there are many sites stop the campaign after few weeks only. The possible reason is that the campaign does not work as expected so they stop it because it is not worth the money the spend on the campaign. Most people in this forum suggest gambling sites to have signature campaign as the best marketing strategy but it wont be effective if there is no other attractive things offered by the site.

well so many campaigns i hadn't seen yet that were stopped after only 3 weeks. but i think the success of additional revenues or people who gambled the signature rewards directly were not big/high enough Grin
but maybe we'll get an official statement about it. if not, but not further tragic... i liked the campaign + website Smiley

We experimented with the signature campaign but decided not to continue. Might resume soon though. Will take this opportunity to thank @yahoo62278 for the fine sig management, recommended Smiley

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September 30, 2019, 05:00:13 PM
 #152

We experimented with the signature campaign but decided not to continue. Might resume soon though. Will take this opportunity to thank @yahoo62278 for the fine sig management, recommended Smiley
Yes, you had a signature campaign. But only a 3-week signature campaign. Signature campaign has a good effect only if you run it for a long time. There are many gambling websites and the competition is really difficult. You should continue to promote your website, so finally you can achieve a good result.
If you want to resume your campaign for another 3 week, I recommend you to not do it or run a long campaign.
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October 01, 2019, 05:35:14 AM
 #153

We experimented with the signature campaign but decided not to continue. Might resume soon though. Will take this opportunity to thank @yahoo62278 for the fine sig management, recommended Smiley
Yes, you had a signature campaign. But only a 3-week signature campaign. Signature campaign has a good effect only if you run it for a long time. There are many gambling websites and the competition is really difficult. You should continue to promote your website, so finally you can achieve a good result.
If you want to resume your campaign for another 3 week, I recommend you to not do it or run a long campaign.
Its very hard for a new business to continually dump thousands of dollars down the drain with a small player base. I think their decision to stop the campaign for now was correct.

For all new sites it's better to offer smaller promos at first to try and gain a few daily players. Wager contests, free satoshi, roll hunts, etc. Most promos will be EV+ for the players and the site will lose money but in the long run the goal is to gain some daily gamblers.


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October 01, 2019, 05:45:50 AM
 #154

We experimented with the signature campaign but decided not to continue. Might resume soon though. Will take this opportunity to thank @yahoo62278 for the fine sig management, recommended Smiley
Yes, you had a signature campaign. But only a 3-week signature campaign. Signature campaign has a good effect only if you run it for a long time. There are many gambling websites and the competition is really difficult. You should continue to promote your website, so finally you can achieve a good result.
If you want to resume your campaign for another 3 week, I recommend you to not do it or run a long campaign.

Why not? Any sites has their own right on how long they want to run the campaign. The longer campaign does not mean the better result, there are many other aspects needed to make a gambling site survive for long time. First thing that they should do is about lowering the minimum bet as I have suggested some time ago and do more contest/competition to gain more player base.
At the moment the only attractive thing in this site is about the jackpot, but it does not attract smaller because of the minimum bet which is higher compared to other sites. If the reason of the high minimum bet is due the jackpot, basically they can modify the system so any bets under 0.25mBTC wont be included to the jackpot spin.

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October 01, 2019, 02:03:15 PM
 #155

We experimented with the signature campaign but decided not to continue. Might resume soon though. Will take this opportunity to thank @yahoo62278 for the fine sig management, recommended Smiley
Yes, you had a signature campaign. But only a 3-week signature campaign. Signature campaign has a good effect only if you run it for a long time. There are many gambling websites and the competition is really difficult. You should continue to promote your website, so finally you can achieve a good result.
If you want to resume your campaign for another 3 week, I recommend you to not do it or run a long campaign.

Why not? Any sites has their own right on how long they want to run the campaign. The longer campaign does not mean the better result, there are many other aspects needed to make a gambling site survive for long time. First thing that they should do is about lowering the minimum bet as I have suggested some time ago and do more contest/competition to gain more player base.
At the moment the only attractive thing in this site is about the jackpot, but it does not attract smaller because of the minimum bet which is higher compared to other sites. If the reason of the high minimum bet is due the jackpot, basically they can modify the system so any bets under 0.25mBTC wont be included to the jackpot spin.

You are right. The success of a gambling website depends on many factors. A website can be succesful without a signature camapign and even without any activity on bitcointalk. One of the things that should be considered is exactly what you mentioned about the minimum wagering amount.
What I said was just a suggestion. In my opinion, if a site want to get a good result from signature campaign, it's better to run it for a long time. Nothing is achived in short time and Rocketpot is still a new website. I guess they didn't get the result they expected and that's why they stopped the signature campaign.
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October 01, 2019, 03:48:59 PM
 #156

We experimented with the signature campaign but decided not to continue. Might resume soon though. Will take this opportunity to thank @yahoo62278 for the fine sig management, recommended Smiley
Yes, you had a signature campaign. But only a 3-week signature campaign. Signature campaign has a good effect only if you run it for a long time. There are many gambling websites and the competition is really difficult. You should continue to promote your website, so finally you can achieve a good result.
If you want to resume your campaign for another 3 week, I recommend you to not do it or run a long campaign.
Its very hard for a new business to continually dump thousands of dollars down the drain with a small player base. I think their decision to stop the campaign for now was correct.
exactly, the results will be different if the site was created under 2016 when the price of Bitcoin is still low, they will not spend thousands of dollars in a short period of time just for promotion.

This site is still being introduced, so it's only natural that daily players are still under 20 people/day. if innovation continues, in a few months and maybe years, I'm sure this will be one of the gambling sites with the most daily players.

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October 01, 2019, 04:38:16 PM
 #157

What is unusual in your site? What are the clear differences from bustabit? I went in and looked, a really pretty nice interface with sounds, as well as a nice color scheme can really drag out for a long time, but for this you need to think about major advertising in the gambling segment, because only the interface is clearly not enough to achieve a great online experience.

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October 02, 2019, 08:54:20 AM
 #158

if innovation continues, in a few months and maybe years, I'm sure this will be one of the gambling sites with the most daily players.

thats the plan!  Grin

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October 07, 2019, 05:55:31 AM
Last edit: October 07, 2019, 10:26:25 AM by Master of Coin
 #159

I've been playng over the weekend but my computer kept going into sleep mode so I seem to have missed the jackpot. Where can I see the last jackpot wins without having to check all game rounds in the URL? (Update: Never mind, I found the win and it was me that had gone snoozing, not the computer! Round https://rocketpot.io/play/round/153469/  Cheesy)
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October 07, 2019, 06:18:29 AM
 #160

I've been playng over the weekend but my computer kept going into sleep mode so I seem to have missed the jackpot. Where can I see the last jackpot wins without having to check all game rounds in the URL?

AFAIK there is no special tabs like "jackpot history" in this site, so I do not think you are able to check it. The only way to know about the jackpot is that if there is someone share the bet ID on the chatbox. Would be nice if they can add special tab for the jackpot hit, so players or new users will be able to see all the jackpot history. It may attract new users as this kind of history is an attractive thing to see/read.

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OFFICIAL EUROPEAN
BETTING PARTNER OF
ASTON VILLA FC
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10%   CASHBACK   
          100%   MULTICHARGER   
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