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Author Topic: Sendable merit, how to use it? Send it when agree/ disagree with posts?  (Read 264 times)
hd49728
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August 31, 2019, 08:24:44 AM
Last edit: September 01, 2019, 02:06:09 AM by hd49728
Merited by mindrust (2), dkbit98 (1)
 #1

Let's kick off by raising some question directly:
  • Which kind of posts deserve merits?
  • Do you send your sMerits to users when you simply agree with their posts?
  • Do you send your sMerits to users when you diagree with their posts?

There is nothing completely right or wrong in life. What we do believe is right today might turn into wrong one someday later. Nobody knows when current facts turn into wrong ones because all things we cope with are two-sided.

Everyone has rights to present personal opinion, and when people put decent efforts to collect proof (from available statistics), from their own calculation/ estimation, from available high-reputable sources, in order to demonstrate their opinion with good intention (not to make decent works to prove something to scam others), I do believe that their opinion should be respected.

At least, their opinions that reflected via posts (in forum) remind us that there are opposite sides that we should spend our time to reconsider, and recheck our opinion is right or wrong. It's only good, not bad.

Before going to answer three big questions above, I quoted some posts on merit system, how to use merits, from theymos (there are likely more, but I have not found all of them ATM).
In Merit & new rank requirements
I'm hoping that this system will increase post quality by:
 - Forcing people to post high-quality stuff in order to rank up. If you just post garbage, you will never get even 1 merit point, and you will therefore never be able to put links in your signature, etc.
 - Highlighting good posts with the "Merited by" line.

While we will not be directly moderating this, I encourage people to give merit to posts that are objectively high-quality, not just posts that you agree with.
Please try to merit posts that other people might find interesting, since top-merited posts show up on the stats.

In Writing a welcome message
Merit, which is gained by making good posts.

Aside from that, if people complain about whether things deserve merit at all, then that's something to perhaps think about, but if you conclude that they're wrong, then that's that.


Answers:
* It is not a guide on merit usages, just my opinion.

1. Which kind of posts deserve merits?
Answer: Posts that are objectively high-quality or good quality deserve merits. (Please read theymos's opinion above)
- Which posts are good/ high-quality?
They are posts that on-topics, informative, stay on questions of OPs and other good/high-quality posts in threads. They have to partially (at least) answered questions of OPs or answered other questions from high/ good-quality posts in threads, that gradually popped-up when discussions move further.
Posts are informative, answered OPs' questions are still pointless if questions already answered by previous posts.

2. Do you send your sMerits to users when you simply agree with their posts?
Yes, you can.

However, you should do it wisely, based on quality of posts you agree with. If those posts are high-quality, helpful; I totally agree to send smerits to those posts when you agree with.

It means if you agree with low-quality posts, please don't send your smerits to those posts. It is kind of goes against the core purposes of merits.


3. Do you send your sMerits to users when you diagree with their posts?
Yes, you can.

Once again, whenever a post is high-quality, informative, on-topic, and worth-reading, question-breaking, question-opened (or posts that open the door to discussion as @mikeywith expressed), it deserves merits.
It is so easy to identify such posts by yourself. How?
If you see a garbage-post, you will move on in seconds. Do you agree?
So what if you see a post that catches your attention, and keeps you reading it for a while (minutes or longer), it is a worth-reading post. Even after spending minutes to read and think of ideas inside that post, and finally you disagree with, I do believe that post worths a merit, at least.

I recently started focusing on posts that open the door to discussion even if they don't have a direct answer to the problem/question in hand


Some opinions from users
I've personally merited posts which I outright disagree with
I do that sometimes, but it confuses people:
@LoyceV, meriting/agreeing to the OP from trusted device but disagreeing from non-trusted device  Huh

Most people have been conditioned by large corporations to use "Like" and "Upvote", and they're used to it. Merit is different, but it doesn't show when you're meriting a post. Users won't know the difference if they don't read about it on Meta.
I'd say Bitcointalk needs a small explanation on how to use them ("merit good posts") on the "Merit a post"-page.
Merit awarding as an alternative to posting.
As I said before ....many users do not have merits.

What about them?

That will only make them more quiet
Merit isn’t meant for that anyways. An “Agree” would be more about pointing out your opinion without you needing to create a redundant post (not necessarily reward a good post). However, I’m pretty sure that’s not going to happen.

Merit is indeed for awarding usefulness, not that you agree or like what the poster wrote.
Please don't use merits as a substitute for "agree" and don't make "+1" posts.

It's a discussion forum so discuss. If you don't have anything else to add other than "+1" then just don't.
I wouldn't do it for posts you "agree with", but for posts that are worth reading. I've done this to posts that stated what I wanted to add to the thread already, so posting it again would be spammy. So I try to highlight the post by Meriting it.
I guess it's caused by actually reading the thread, instead of just responding to the title or OP. I'd say that's a good thing.
I've personally merited posts which I outright disagree with, and have even merited posts which are wrong. However, if there's a good argument or at least some effort was applied then it doesn't matter whether they get their facts a little skewed. Whoever you are you are not going to have all the answers, and especially when discussing technical aspects of Bitcoin. My merit rewarding system is all about effort, and quality rather than being factually correct.

Of course, if they're spewing total nonsense which makes little sense then that's not likely to get a merit, because its likely not constructive, and a quality post to begin with. An example would be discussion of the conspiracy theory that certain people on this earth are lizards. Even though I think that's batshit crazy if they bring some quality discussion, and reason to believe that then I'll likely reward them for that even though I'm totally against the suggestion as long as effort has been applied, and its of high quality regardless of the subject.

This post is what users discussed a few days before merit system released, but it is worth to note that theymos emphasizes he would prefer users using merits not as Like button (see above quotes).
Someone who has time should maintain a list of these phishing sites, and we can encourage all new users to update their hosts file.
Someone already did that: https://github.com/StevenBlack/hosts (scroll down a bit to see many different categories hosts files). The one mentioned above isn't on it though, so I've added it by myself.

^ ^  Another post I wish I could simply +1 or "Like"

Please Theymos.....    Grin




I gonna add more quotes.


To end the thread, do you agree with my opinion?  Kiss

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August 31, 2019, 08:35:37 AM
Merited by hd49728 (1)
 #2

I agree with your opinion, that's why I gave 2 merits to your post. hmm hmm.  Tongue

From time to time I merit posts just because I agree with the user but I believe everybody does this occasionally. Yes it is not the right way to spend merits but I think it is fine as long as you don't overdo it on all one-liner shit posts just because they said "I agree with you".

If the post is successfully explaining the reasoning behind it and I happen to agree with that, I usually give merit(s).
If the post is giving only information, without any opinions, I again give merits. (having the OP's opinion would be a plus)

It is pretty hard to merit a post which you don't agree with however. I am not sure if I've ever done that before. (*edit, I remember now. I did it. But It is very rare.)




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August 31, 2019, 08:37:16 AM
 #3

To end the thread, do you agree with my opinion?  Kiss

I guess everyone has their opinion of what makes a good post. There is no general guide book. And I'm sure members consider different factors. Such as effort, relevance, and uniqueness of the post. Give merits to posts you think are deserving of it.

A translation of a relevant post could be given merit(s) just for the effort put in, even though it does not offer any new idea.
Members also judge ranks differently; i.e what would earn a newbie/jr member a merit might not earn a full member or hero member any.
One accepted rule would be not to use it for personal gains; on alt accounts or merit sale.

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August 31, 2019, 08:42:49 AM
Last edit: August 31, 2019, 08:56:17 AM by hd49728
 #4

A translation of a relevant post could be given merit(s) just for the effort put in, even though it does not offer any new idea.
This is a worth-discussing point. Sometimes, translated threads received more merits than original ones. I don't deny decent efforts that users put into their translations, but to say their efforts are more significant than original authors, I disagree.

Authors of original threads have to do lots of works to compose their threads: Reading, Searching, Composing, Editing. Repeatedly do that before click on Post button. They actually edit their threads many times after that.
Quote
I guess everyone has their opinion of what makes a good post.
Posters usually think their posts are useful, but the fact mostly is contrasting.
It is pretty hard to merit a post which you don't agree with however. I am not sure if I've ever done that before. (*edit, I remember now. I did it. But It is very rare.)
Yep, it's the point. Meriting worth-reading posts which you disagree with.  Smiley

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August 31, 2019, 10:38:57 AM
Merited by hd49728 (1)
 #5

On one hand:
I encourage people to give merit to posts that are objectively high-quality, not just posts that you agree with.

And on the other hand:
Aside from that, if people complain about whether things deserve merit at all, then that's something to perhaps think about, but if you conclude that they're wrong, then that's that.

In other words, you can send merit to whoever you like for whatever reason you like, but preferably it should be given to high quality posts, i.e. ones that contribute to the discussion. It should not be used simply as a "like" or "agree" button. I have personally merited posts I completely disagree with, even ones which are arguing directly against me, if they are of high quality and well thought out. I also have a much lower threshold when considering what is "high quality" when it comes to newbies and junior members. We all had to start somewhere, and if it is clear they are here to discuss and learn, and aren't here just to bounty or signature spam, then I'm usually pretty liberal with my merits in these cases.

Authors of original threads have to do lots of works to compose their threads: Reading, Searching, Composing, Editing. Repeatedly do that before click on Post button. They actually edit their threads many times after that.
Effort != high quality. A high quality post might only be a couple of words long, if it directly answers a technical question or problem, for example. There are also plenty of threads dotted about various boards, but particularly in Beginner's and Help, which I'm sure the OP spent several hours composing, but if the information contained within them is wrong, inaccurate, simply copied from other sources/other posts, not relevant to crypto, not useful, and so forth, then I don't think that's of particularly high quality.

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August 31, 2019, 12:05:14 PM
Merited by hd49728 (1)
 #6

Effort != high quality. A high quality post might only be a couple of words long, if it directly answers a technical question or problem, for example. There are also plenty of threads dotted about various boards, but particularly in Beginner's and Help, which I'm sure the OP spent several hours composing, but if the information contained within them is wrong, inaccurate, simply copied from other sources/other posts, not relevant to crypto, not useful, and so forth, then I don't think that's of particularly high quality.
Effort != Length

To concisely answer a question without using too much jargon, and making it complicated is effort. You're making an effort to make that post concise, and straight to the point. Effort just means that they've made an attempt to answer the question or contribute to the discussion. This is incredibly difficult to avoid when discussing the technical aspects of cryptocurrencies.

If its completely factually wrong, and just gibberish yeah I would agree. However, if it has some aspects which are factually incorrect, but overall has good content then I personally wouldn't write that post off. I've merited several posts which have been factually incorrect. This is especially true when it comes to discussing the technical aspects of Bitcoin it is very easy to use a different word which completely changes the meaning of the sentence, but overall the post is correct or providing a different insight.

It's worth mentioning that there's been several users with basic understanding of Bitcoin, and the Blockchain and are putting in the effort to learn about Bitcoin, but not quite understanding it. However, they're putting in effort to learn, and in return are providing high quality content even if its not quite factually correct.

We all have different merit awarding criteria, and that's the good thing about the system.

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August 31, 2019, 12:34:07 PM
Last edit: August 31, 2019, 01:28:29 PM by hd49728
 #7

Quote
We all have different merit awarding criteria, and that's the good thing about the system.
I agreed.

Effort != high quality.
Effort != Length
I understand it because posters whom are actually make constructive posts regularly all know that fact.
It seems @o_e_l_e_o got my ideas incorrectly. In fact, I implied that with same contents, translators sometimes get more merits from their local boards than original posters whom obviously spent more efforts to compose original threads. There is nothing wrong when locals send their smerits to good translational threads in their boards, but if I were them, I would have merited both original authors and translational threads' authors. They both deserve merits.
Moreover, the length of your post and the quality of your English are only minor factors. In trying to write a quality post worthy of merit, you should offer new ideas, personal experiences, or perspectives that other forum users will actually find new and interesting.

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August 31, 2019, 03:28:22 PM
 #8

I give merits to those on-point statements and relatable to the OP, that's it.

Disregard if it's long or short, the deliberation of the statement wasn't big deal because the important thing is the point or the thought. It's also worthy to give merits to some technical answers that add or provide enough information regarding the topic. Sometimes we feel to give merits to those we agree with because his thoughts on his statement are similar to yours or you appreciate his statements/opinions that might be a spice to the topic, that's the reason why they still give merits that shows "like" or "agree".

For example, if I'm currently explaining on a thread and specified an on-point statement, I deserved to received merits because of being on the topic and it means that if they merited me, they agree or accept my statement to be considered in the discussion even it's against to some people. People misunderstood the meaning of agreeing in discussion, it's like accepting his opinions or making it belong to the specific topic.

Sometimes there are topics that are very common and basic, the only way to received merits on that thread is to provide examples and other information that's related to the OP. If you just agree to the OP without stating any facts then your reply is considered useless since you didn't engage for more discussions, basically, it's just a low key spam/non-sense post.


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August 31, 2019, 04:17:44 PM
Merited by hd49728 (1)
 #9

Vod's post is taken out of context: it was posted before the introduction of the Merit system, and doesn't mean Merit should be used as a "+1".

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August 31, 2019, 04:28:18 PM
 #10

Vod's post is taken out of context: it was posted before the introduction of the Merit system, and doesn't mean Merit should be used as a "+1".
I think it is good after I added a note above that quote. Thanks.

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August 31, 2019, 04:33:01 PM
Merited by DdmrDdmr (1)
 #11

Sometimes there are topics that are very common and basic, the only way to received merits on that thread is to provide examples and other information that's related to the OP. If you just agree to the OP without stating any facts then your reply is considered useless since you didn't engage for more discussions, basically, it's just a low key spam/non-sense post.



Adding something new to the discussion or even if you're reinforcing someone else's opinion as long as you're backing that up with either a different viewpoint or with sources to back up your claims. It's rather hard to say this type of post gets merit, and this one doesn't. There's no blanket statement when rewarding merit, and I certainly don't have a checklist to check off to see how much merit I send to someones post. Rewarding merit is a personal thing to do, and not something that should be standardized. We want difference of opinions, and different ways users go about meriting because we need that diversity for a number of users to rank up. Otherwise, it will be the same old users getting all the merit.

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August 31, 2019, 09:03:40 PM
Merited by Vispilio (1), Kingf1sher (1)
 #12

Here is another way to look at it without getting too far into the weeds about liking, or agreeing, or whatever:

Is the post a positive contribution to the forum? (it doesn't have to be some genius idea, it could be even a joke or a meme). Would you like to see more posts like that?

That's pretty much the purpose of the merit system - to encourage valuable posters and discourage spammers. It's almost inevitable that many - perhaps even most - posts that you merit will be the ones you agree with and there are good reasons for that. For example, if you're hanging out in tech discussions it often makes sense to merit posts that you know are factually correct and to not merit posts that you think are wrong. If you're meriting a scam accusation you probably don't need to engage into some sort of affirmative action to merit a lying scammer denying the accusation, no matter how eloquent and "high quality" their defence is. Et cetera.

Having said that - as I already mentioned in the post that the OP quoted - merit is not a substitute for "I agree". Don't overthink it too much, just try to see if the post has other qualities besides supporting your opinion.

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August 31, 2019, 10:04:01 PM
 #13

Personally, I tend to send merits to posts which I agree to. Don't about others, but for me it would be a bit strange to send merits which have opposite views than me. I only send meritd when other user correct me or shows that I was wrong. So, I think we can say that I use merit quite similar like "like" button on social networks.




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mikeywith
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September 01, 2019, 12:43:20 AM
Merited by hd49728 (1)
 #14

I think as long as you don't send merit to your "Friend/Wife's account  Roll Eyes" you are not doing anything wrong, however doing the right thing all the time is impossible,we all have our own method of choosing what posts to merit, but overall , the majority of those merit will go to whoever deserve them, you might get 5-10 merit for trolling or posting something funny, but all those merit combined don't really have that much of an impact on the accuracy of the merit system.

I also notice that as i "grow up" in the forum , I tend to change my preferences on what posts to merit, I recently started focusing on posts that open the door to discussion even if they don't have a direct answer to the problem/question in hand, because I personally believe that the forum in general has this problem of "good topics die way too fast", but things could change, next month I might think that the boards where I am most active lack new good topics so I will start focusing on new topics.


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September 01, 2019, 01:49:23 AM
 #15

Rewarding merit is a personal thing to do, and not something that should be standardized. We want difference of opinions, and different ways users go about meriting because we need that diversity for a number of users to rank up. Otherwise, it will be the same old users getting all the merit.

Yes, we have our own criteria on giving merits but If that criteria is where the circle of friends benefits, it's useless. I mean, we shouldn't forget what's the right statement to be merited, because people nowadays have high standards and just spending their merit to the people they knew even there's a lot of quality post out there that is x99 better. If that's the case, it should be balanced, sometimes we must be based on our own criteria but if we see something pushing their limits just to make extraordinary and worthy posts, then we should.

---
and btw, this topic was being discussed multiple times already, I think we should spend it based on our own as long as it doesn't defy the rules. end

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