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Author Topic: Antiviruses  (Read 905 times)
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September 12, 2019, 07:26:41 PM
 #81

I don't think that Antivirus are so important.
They provide you the basic protection, but the user should be cautious in every action he does on his PC. If you don't be careful and download malicious content or press on dangerous links, the antivirus won't be the one to be blamed.
But what is the problem to install antivirus and don’t worry? It is very easy app.

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September 12, 2019, 07:36:37 PM
 #82

But what is the problem to install antivirus and don’t worry? It is very easy app.

The company behind the software is collecting lots of data. They are using that data to make money.
And it slows down your computer pretty heavily since it needs quite a lot of resources.

But what is the problem to install a proper OS and don't worry? It is very easy software.
You don't want to use a secure OS and other people don't want to use a software which slows down their PC.

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September 12, 2019, 09:20:42 PM
 #83

Whether an antivirus will provide a net benefit depends on how technically proficient and security conscious the user is, for many all it will do is increase the attack surface seeing how complex and easily exploitable AV software is.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3020327/antivirus-software-could-make-your-company-more-vulnerable.html
https://www.zdnet.com/article/this-new-malware-exploits-bugs-in-antivirus-software-to-steal-your-data/

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September 13, 2019, 12:03:03 AM
 #84

But I will be forced to transfer all my personal data to an external hdd. Will the virus be transferred to external hdd along with the files?

Not as long as you only move personal data (documents, pictures, music, etc.. ).
I hope you don't see executable files as personal data. As long as you don't, you are most probably fine.

Just don't copy your whole hard drive over. And try to not copy any software over (which always is a mess with windows anyway).

As if viruses did not infect "documents". I wonder if you are even familiar with the concept of "macro" virus? And, how about exploits to the image rendering system abused from pictures? I also have bad news to you about music, its tagging system, and exploiting the bundled players...

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September 13, 2019, 06:22:19 AM
 #85

@cryptojor

anti-virus is a pointless waste of space, just delete the av program

Recently I just found a trojan virus in my pc where it mines cryptocurrency without my consent. Good thing I always look at task manager and found out about that where its usage is very high. I searched a solution on the internet and suggested me to download an antivirus. I downloaded bitdefender, scan my computer and removed that virus.

At first I also don't believe on those programs as I think they just make my pc lag but after that incident happened I will always install antivirus software.

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September 13, 2019, 06:32:38 AM
 #86

You don't want to use a secure OS and other people don't want to use a software which slows down their PC.

There are no secure OS. Bugs and vulnerabilities are everywhere. The same goes for software.
Even more most of the vulnerabilities come from applications not from OS.
And there are more popular software and less popular. Less popular is less studied.

In general security is more dependent on user actions and the set of applications, and not on an OS.

As for me, I don't use antivirus almost, only firewalls and HIPS systems.
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September 13, 2019, 06:51:23 AM
 #87

it is very recommended to keep using AV

no it isn't

it's recommended to use good software that's not so broken that it even needs extra software for security

That is true but every software comes vulnerable from time to time. New threats are designed every day and you can't be fully protected but still antivirus can help. And we all know how little people still know and care about cybersecurity.

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September 13, 2019, 07:25:10 AM
 #88

As if viruses did not infect "documents". I wonder if you are even familiar with the concept of "macro" virus? And, how about exploits to the image rendering system abused from pictures? I also have bad news to you about music, its tagging system, and exploiting the bundled players...

Wow.
This post is just to reach your quota for your sig payment it seems ?


We are not talking about exploits here. This is not about what can be exploited.
This was about how he can move to a new system backing up his files.

What does an exploit in any rendering software to do with that ?
Also, do you really believe a malware will 'infect' all .doc files with a "macro virus" ?? Do you really believe that ?
You do know that they have to be explicitly allowed to be executed by the user ?

What can or can not be exploited was never the topic here.
If you are not familiar with the 5/7 stages of a malware attack, that's fine. But please don't write such a nonsense. Or at least don't quote/mention me while doing it.


P.s. The term you were looking for is malware, not virus. A virus is just a small subcategory of malware. Google it.



You don't want to use a secure OS and other people don't want to use a software which slows down their PC.

There are no secure OS. Bugs and vulnerabilities are everywhere. The same goes for software.
Even more most of the vulnerabilities come from applications not from OS.

There is no 100% secure OS, yes.
But Windows is by far the least secure OS of all available ones.

A professional administrator needs days of work to get a windows network close to be as a secure as a linux network is by default.
And a few hours invested into a linux network will make a big difference again.

Windows is having more than enough vulnerabilities each month. Linux and MacOS too, but not this extent.
And i am only talking about security vulnerabilities know.. ignoring all the bugs windows has (boot loop, files deleted, takes an hour to update ... ).

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September 13, 2019, 10:14:11 AM
 #89

anti-virus is a pointless waste of space, just delete the av program

Recently I just found a trojan virus in my pc where it mines cryptocurrency without my consent.

you wouldn't be getting viruses if you took even a small amount of responsibility for your security


installing anti-virus is basically the same as saying "I don't know what I'm doing, or what's going on". The anti-virus program can't protect you if that's the case, if you think it will, then you'll do dangerous things with your computer, then get a virus.

learning about basic security is how to avoid viruses and malware, if you let someone do it for you for free, they won't do a good job. When was the last time someone provided a good service when they do it for free, lol

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September 13, 2019, 01:13:19 PM
 #90

@cryptojor

anti-virus is a pointless waste of space, just delete the av program


in the days when updating your system over the internet was unheard of, computer viruses sometimes did spread. in practice, they were still rare.


now, there are no malware threats that cannot be mitigated by simply choosing a secure operating system, and keeping it up to date. I've been doing exactly that for 10 years, any virus worth a damn would have stolen some of my BTC, and that hasn't happened.

I disagree.

Several user already have been warned from electrum phishing sites (or even from the malware they downloaded from that site) by their AV.
They would have lost their coins without an AV.

While AV's only recognize already known or blatantly stupid malware, every average windows- or mac user should have one installed.

And neither mac or linux are safe from malware. There is malware for these operating systems, less than 2-3%, but still it exists.
A secure operating system doesn't protect you against 1) malware being executed by non-techy people or 2) other kinds of targeted attacks (which are very costly and complex).

Changing the OS doesn't protect an absolute non-techy person at all, IMO.
Good OS in combination with common sense and some technical knowledge does.


I think it it safe to assume that you are not a clicky-pointy type of person who is running a colorful windows installation. You don't need an AV. That's fine, me neither.
But i would never suggest other people reading this (especially those running windows being not techy at all) to live without an AV. It offers at least some level of security.

Maybe what he means is by choosing Linux OS because it is much safer to use, because anti-virus main target is the Windows type OS but even Linux can be targetted by a virus, as stated by this article here
 https://www.pcworld.com/article/3156931/why-malware-should-be-a-concern-for-all-linux-users-and-what-to-do-about-it.html

There's really no safe OS and users should be educated on how to protect himself from getting infected.

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September 13, 2019, 01:30:51 PM
 #91

As if viruses did not infect "documents". I wonder if you are even familiar with the concept of "macro" virus? And, how about exploits to the image rendering system abused from pictures? I also have bad news to you about music, its tagging system, and exploiting the bundled players...

Wow.
This post is just to reach your quota for your sig payment it seems ?


We are not talking about exploits here. This is not about what can be exploited.
This was about how he can move to a new system backing up his files.

What does an exploit in any rendering software to do with that ?
Also, do you really believe a malware will 'infect' all .doc files with a "macro virus" ?? Do you really believe that ?
You do know that they have to be explicitly allowed to be executed by the user ?

What can or can not be exploited was never the topic here.
If you are not familiar with the 5/7 stages of a malware attack, that's fine. But please don't write such a nonsense. Or at least don't quote/mention me while doing it.


P.s. The term you were looking for is malware, not virus. A virus is just a small subcategory of malware. Google it.

I quote you because you are mistaken. You said he wouldn't copy the virus by copying "documents, pictures and music", and that is a lie, and yes i am correcting you.

I don't get why you even mention something about the signature campaign, which you clearly also participate in...

And no, the term when it was coined, and i think still is, was clearly macro virus, not macro malware.


So let me repeat it so you get it, and prepare to be corrected every single time i spot you telling a lie: YES HE MAY COPY THE VIRUS WHEN DOING THE BACKUP, or malware if you like the newer fashion, which may also include the spyware crap.

Can the virus infect ALL doc files? OF COURSE. This is not a matter of beliefs, it simply depends which one infects the system and is running. Do i have to mention the ransomware crap too? but again, you are the one familiar with the term malware...

THE BACKUP CAN COPY THE MALWARE. If he does it from a secure os, such as Linux running live from a dvd, the copying won't execute it, that is, until he opens a freshly installed windows, open the file and executes it (ie. the macro virus).

If he was smart, and instead used Linux as the new OS, then very likely the virus won't execute, if only because Libreoffice would probably ignore it (hoping he didn't just run MSOffice from wine)..

OF COURSE he could also try using clamav while running the live Linux to the backup data, before moving forward.

And no, i don't need you to explain me the "5/7" stages of malware infection, good for you knowing it, go ahead and explain it to them...

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September 13, 2019, 01:49:32 PM
 #92

I quote you because you are mistaken. You said he wouldn't copy the virus by copying "documents, pictures and music", and that is a lie, and yes i am correcting you.

He might be copying the infected file, but not the malware which itself is running in the background migrated into another process.
These processes won't be started on the new install at all.

If he obvioulsy opens the infected file and get infected again.. well of course his compuer will be compromised again..


And he most probably is NOT infected with a virus, but with another kind of malware.



I don't get why you even mention something about the signature campaign, which you clearly also participate in...

Because you participate in a spam campaign. I don't.
And your postquality also backs this up.



And no, the term when it was coined, and i think still is, was clearly macro virus, not macro malware.

A virus is defined by the way it spreads itself. A virus spreads itself by exploiting vulnerabilities automatically resulting in a lot of infections at a fast pace.



THE BACKUP CAN COPY THE MALWARE. If he does it from a secure os, such as Linux running live from a dvd, the copying won't execute it, that is, until he opens a freshly installed windows, open the file and executes it (ie. the macro virus).

Copying never executes the malware. Doesn't matter whether from linux or windows.
If he decides to open an infected doc file and allowing macros to be execued (which has to be done explicitly), then he is at fault.

Most probably he got infected in a different way.


Now, please stop spreading your dangerous sciolism.

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September 13, 2019, 02:08:59 PM
 #93

Because you participate in a spam campaign. I don't.
And your postquality also backs this up.

So, NOW you accuse the campaign manager of not properly doing his job? In a totally unrelated topic? Don't you just like to accuse people of "spam" when they post something you don't agree with? Do you even know what people mean with "spam"? Perhaps a link to the source of it all? but its clearly offtopic so I'll refrain...

I'm not stopping or changing my post style because you say so. Oh, and you don't know what kind of malware is running in the OP os, but your assumption is just that. Instead of covering all possibilities, as someone who is supposed to know about all variants of malware should...

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September 13, 2019, 04:35:25 PM
 #94

Anti-virus use on Windows is perfect. Antivirus is usually not used on Mac or Apple. However, it should be used on a normal computer. Because the malaria virus can damage at any moment.

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September 13, 2019, 06:48:05 PM
 #95

I understand you, it will be necessary to try. But which Antivirus is still better for these tasks, Kaspersky or Avast?
My recommendation is Norton Security, it is not free, but it is working as great protection on my PC for years. It is not only AV, but a set of security programs which include AV, firewall, antispam, exploit protection and much more. It works very nice in combination with Malwarebytes Pro, and this is something that I consider good protection on Windows OS.
Most of security software is available in trial version, so it is possible to try it for 15 or 30 days completely free.
About ten years ago  last time I heard about Norton Security, and now I think, maybe install Linux?)

I tried working on Linux, and I cannot say that I was happy with this OS. However, it is worth trying if you are scared of viruses and not sure that your AV soft can protect you. As for the viruses, the most frequent one is mining virus. When the computer is infected, you can watch:
- High load of CPU and video cards;
- A web browser uses more than 50% of the processor power;
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- Slow launch of web pages;
- The mouse does not want to move for several minutes.

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September 13, 2019, 08:15:40 PM
 #96

Anti-virus use on Windows is perfect. Antivirus is usually not used on Mac or Apple. However, it should be used on a normal computer. Because the malaria virus can damage at any moment.
Ubuntu also don’t need extra protection , am I right? I just want to install it.

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September 13, 2019, 08:46:49 PM
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 #97

Anti-virus use on Windows is perfect. Antivirus is usually not used on Mac or Apple. However, it should be used on a normal computer. Because the malaria virus can damage at any moment.
Ubuntu also don’t need extra protection , am I right? I just want to install it.

Ubuntu (or any other operating system, really), isn't immune against malware (even if due to lower install base not as much is written as for Windows), 0days, exploits against the system or any of its components or installed software, and you can still get phished if you don't look carefully where you log in.

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September 13, 2019, 09:14:22 PM
 #98

Ubuntu (or any other operating system, really), isn't immune against malware (even if due to lower install base not as much is written as for Windows), 0days, exploits against the system or any of its components or installed software, and you can still get phished if you don't look carefully where you log in.
Basic antivirus software dont help much against phishing attacks. I ve used free versions of Avira, Avast and Windows Defender but I dont remember any of them warning me of fake phishing websites. I even visited the bitcointalk phishing site on purpose just to see if my AV would respond and nothing.
If you are cautious by nature you dont an antivirus to tell you that you are in danger.

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September 15, 2019, 01:08:32 AM
 #99

Anti-virus use on Windows is perfect. Antivirus is usually not used on Mac or Apple. However, it should be used on a normal computer. Because the malaria virus can damage at any moment.
Ubuntu also don’t need extra protection , am I right? I just want to install it.

Ubuntu is one of several linux distros. If you like it then its fine. You can try it without installing it, just boot from a dvd or usb stick.

There are several different distros and desktops. The way Ubuntu UI is set up, is a bit too unconventional for my taste (touch screen oriented).

A more traditional desktop can be found in the likes of MX Linux, which is currently no.1

There are also many others, look in youtube for reviews and test them all, most can be used without installing it.

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September 15, 2019, 06:30:32 AM
 #100

Anti-virus use on Windows is perfect. Antivirus is usually not used on Mac or Apple. However, it should be used on a normal computer. Because the malaria virus can damage at any moment.
Ubuntu also don’t need extra protection , am I right? I just want to install it.

Ubuntu (or any other operating system, really), isn't immune against malware (even if due to lower install base not as much is written as for Windows), 0days, exploits against the system or any of its components or installed software, and you can still get phished if you don't look carefully where you log in.
I am aware of this factor, but still, if there is an opportunity to defend ourselves, then why not?

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