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Author Topic: Antiviruses  (Read 905 times)
bob123
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August 27, 2019, 08:59:01 AM
#1

@cryptojor

anti-virus is a pointless waste of space, just delete the av program


in the days when updating your system over the internet was unheard of, computer viruses sometimes did spread. in practice, they were still rare.


now, there are no malware threats that cannot be mitigated by simply choosing a secure operating system, and keeping it up to date. I've been doing exactly that for 10 years, any virus worth a damn would have stolen some of my BTC, and that hasn't happened.

I disagree.

Several user already have been warned from electrum phishing sites (or even from the malware they downloaded from that site) by their AV.
They would have lost their coins without an AV.

While AV's only recognize already known or blatantly stupid malware, every average windows- or mac user should have one installed.

And neither mac or linux are safe from malware. There is malware for these operating systems, less than 2-3%, but still it exists.
A secure operating system doesn't protect you against 1) malware being executed by non-techy people or 2) other kinds of targeted attacks (which are very costly and complex).

Changing the OS doesn't protect an absolute non-techy person at all, IMO.
Good OS in combination with common sense and some technical knowledge does.


I think it it safe to assume that you are not a clicky-pointy type of person who is running a colorful windows installation. You don't need an AV. That's fine, me neither.
But i would never suggest other people reading this (especially those running windows being not techy at all) to live without an AV. It offers at least some level of security.

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August 27, 2019, 12:39:13 PM
#2

@cryptojor

anti-virus is a pointless waste of space, just delete the av program




They normally get rid of tracker cookies and other stuff that can be silently downloaded by Web browsers flaws...

They also tell you the exposure of most applications and how likely it'll be to get a virus from one: not that it's popped up for me for about half a year on the windows machine. A lot of things I use are only made for windows (which is a shame because they'd run much faster on Linux - even Ubuntu is faster and less power intensive than Windows).

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August 27, 2019, 01:22:17 PM
#3

@cryptojor

anti-virus is a pointless waste of space, just delete the av program


in the days when updating your system over the internet was unheard of, computer viruses sometimes did spread. in practice, they were still rare.


now, there are no malware threats that cannot be mitigated by simply choosing a secure operating system, and keeping it up to date. I've been doing exactly that for 10 years, any virus worth a damn would have stolen some of my BTC, and that hasn't happened.
This could apply if you are using Operating systems that are rarely targeted like Linux. I have used linux for a few years now and i haven't had to worry a lot about viruses and so i have no antivirus installed at all (Am not saying it's completely secure but the incidents are so rare unlike windows)

For windows, it's a different case. Malware is there on every corner of the web just wait for you to slip up and click on it  Grin
The very first day i installed Avast a few days after i had installed Windows OS and a few applications that i needed to use. It immediately detected that there was malware in my PC.

I stopped using windows for all my crypto-related transactions since then.



Back to OP, i think best thing to do is just go through the whole process of syncing. I know it sucks, takes a lot of time and bandwidth but it's better to be safe.





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August 28, 2019, 06:19:03 AM
#4

I disagree.

Several user already have been warned from electrum phishing sites (or even from the malware they downloaded from that site) by their AV.
They would have lost their coins without an AV.

is phishing a virus?


it's not, is it?

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August 28, 2019, 07:49:15 AM
#5

There's been so much talk about avatas... Why do you use it?
?

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August 28, 2019, 08:52:22 AM
#6

is phishing a virus?


it's not, is it?
It is not a virus but still AntiVirus software warn users of flagged phishing sites.
Same thing goes for MetaMask. If you visit a malicious site MetaMask will warn you of potential phishing attempts.

It is another thing if you are experienced enough not to visit dangerous sites or use potentially dangerous services, unfortunately many people aren't.

There's been so much talk about avatas...  
There has been no talk about avatas here. Do you mean Avast?
Probably because it is a free and easy to use AV solution.

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August 28, 2019, 09:09:52 AM
#7

is phishing a virus?


it's not, is it?

Well, not really, no.

But malware can be part of a phishing campaign, which itself is geared towards gaining sensitive information of the victim (e.g. private keys).
Multiple user already have downloaded malware from a fake electrum site and tried to install it. Luckily their AV prevented that.


I'd still always recommend people who are using windows or mac to always use an AV. It usually brings more value than it creates inconveniences.

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August 29, 2019, 08:05:44 AM
#8

I'd still always recommend people who are using windows or mac to always use an AV. It usually brings more value than it creates inconveniences.

my experience was the opposite, anti-virus didn't save me from a single thing, and inconvenienced me from doing what I wanted to at least a handful of times


and really, it's another way of saying "Windows and Mac are insecure by default"

and some company makes your Win/Mac computer secure, for free? because some tiny percentage pay for the "full" application?

I'm amazed that anyone ever believed this (including myself, I believed it up until the early 2010's)

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August 29, 2019, 09:23:39 AM
#9

and really, it's another way of saying "Windows and Mac are insecure by default"

Well, they are.
Most malware simply is coded for windows. And the majority of mac user are not techy at all. Most of them can't even update their browser themselves.

Those people are way easier to be tricked into downloading/installing malware.

And an AV would at least protect against already known threats or obvious malware actions.



and some company makes your Win/Mac computer secure, for free? because some tiny percentage pay for the "full" application?

It doesn't make it secure. But it at least adds some security to it.
The companies earn from the premium subscription and from the information your computer is sending them back whenever something strange happens (i.e. new file making new weird actions, etc.).

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August 30, 2019, 12:04:09 PM
#10

my experience was the opposite, anti-virus didn't save me from a single thing, and inconvenienced me from doing what I wanted to at least a handful of times


and really, it's another way of saying "Windows and Mac are insecure by default"

and some company makes your Win/Mac computer secure, for free? because some tiny percentage pay for the "full" application?

I'm amazed that anyone ever believed this (including myself, I believed it up until the early 2010's)

Even I don't believe that these AVs can actually prevent our PCs from being maliciously infected because every time a virus is found, added and updated to their directory, someone somewhere becomes a victim for sure and that's what makes me feel that malign viruses are ahead of these AVs while comparing the amount of time they take to attack on a PC versus the time taken to understand, find and update that virus and remove it. Some viruses don't even get removed from these AVs so I can't decide which ones to trust to believe that my PC is secure enough to store my crypto in it. These AVs quarantine (and sometimes even delete, just as in the case of OP) some important files if given the allowance to do so without our permission.  Undecided

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August 31, 2019, 07:37:17 AM
#11

Snip
If you use your computer for normal things you don't even need anti virus software, especially if it's not a Windows OS.
If you are a person who downloads a lot, likes to visit underground forums, receives and opens files via email, Telegram, Skype or whatever chances are you will get some sort of virus sooner or later. Being cautious and having common sense reduces the risk of infections. Don't poke the bear!

Unfortunately many people lack both common sense or the logic of what they should and should not do. That is where AV companies come into play to try and protect or guide people away from the dangers.

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September 01, 2019, 07:36:24 AM
#12

If you are a person who downloads a lot, likes to visit underground forums, receives and opens files via email, Telegram, Skype or whatever chances are you will get some sort of virus sooner or later. Being cautious and having common sense reduces the risk of infections. Don't poke the bear!

Unfortunately many people lack both common sense or the logic of what they should and should not do. That is where AV companies come into play to try and protect or guide people away from the dangers.

that's the old security model though

new security model (since ~ 2012):

  • Virtual machines for sandboxing apps
  • Dedicated CPU instructions sandbox hardware devices
  • Non-persistant filesystem stops malware from sticking after a reboot


if you're thinking "that sounds too hard to use/setup", then maybe you should be asking "how much do I want to keep my BTC safe?"

if you believe the 1990's model (anti-virus) is good enough, I hope you won't be upset if you get hacked. By someone who works for Avast or Kaspersky.

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September 01, 2019, 01:54:35 PM
#13

if you believe the 1990's model (anti-virus) is good enough, I hope you won't be upset if you get hacked. By someone who works for Avast or Kaspersky.
Something like that could in theory happen with any software that isn't open sourced and who's code has not been checked thoroughly.
What if the Sandbox software you are using is run by a malicious person? Have you personally looked at every line of code?
7-8 years ago there were password stealers who could bypass Sandboxie and had Anti-Sandbox options, I don't even know what is possible with the technological advancements today. 

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September 01, 2019, 03:57:31 PM
#14

Something like that could in theory happen with any software that isn't open sourced and who's code has not been checked thoroughly. 

Popular open-source software has been checked by multiple people already.
And new malicious commits / changes to it would attract the attention of quite a lot people.

Using popular and wide-spread open-source software is definitely safer than using a less popular one or even closed-source software.



What if the Sandbox software you are using is run by a malicious person? Have you personally looked at every line of code?

Same as above. Popular open-source software has been checked by quite a lot people already.
Cuckoo would be one of these open-source sandbox tools.



7-8 years ago there were password stealers who could bypass Sandboxie and had Anti-Sandbox options, I don't even know what is possible with the technological advancements today. 

Detecting a sandbox is pretty easy, even nowadays.

Escaping them requires a vulnerability in such software. There was a vulnerability which allowed to escape the sandbox of oracle's virtual machine which has been fixed roughly 6 months ago (more or less).
Definitely a possibility nowadays.



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September 01, 2019, 09:28:58 PM
#15

The real problem isn't the security model, but user's security awareness which makes security model useless on some cases.

Some parts of operating systems are exploitable like windows with the WannaCry virus which was a vulnerability exploit that was normally previously used for industrial network installations (so the modem can pass applications to other computers for them to be installed). It's hard to securely run windows unless you ensure that everyone on the same internet know what they're doing and how not to get a virus on their machine (even if that vulnerability was patched, we all know how often Windows updates can fail if you've ever run Windows - and some just never install).

Realistically, this question also apply to AV. Besides, look doesn't mean you understand the code.

Programmers might make some code too that can look correct but can compile to produce vulnerabilities. There must've been bugs in the past caused by old compilers that opened up vulnerabilities, in order to trust your piece of code is going to run correctly you might also wnat to check the compiler is fully up to date and not malicious (it's likely lots of people will check compilers for thier integrity especially as a lot of people are interested in how they function and how they can make them more efficient).



If you have a lot of crypto to keep safe, it might be worth investing in a separate computer entirely, as mentioned VM's can have backdoors in them and nothing can beat the security of an airgapped wallet (potentially with a hardware wallet added in too on the airgapped machine).

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September 02, 2019, 04:34:39 AM
#16

the problem is that sometimes you can't switch to Linux. for example many day to day things many users do can only be done on Windows because that specific application is only released for Windows. eventually you get used to using the same OS so for anything not-security-critical you stick to Windows which means you have to have an antivirus installed to protect you against "majority" of unwanted things.

so in case of what was quoted, you can't really tell him to uninstall his AV because it may not give him 100% protection because you really are telling him to give up the 90% protection he has just because it is not 100%!
of course the only argument you could make is to move to a secure OS and offline when you deal with things that require security like your cold storage, but for running a node Windows is fine. you just have to learn how to use the AV properly specially the FireWall.

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September 02, 2019, 04:45:50 AM
#17

I disagree.

Several user already have been warned from electrum phishing sites (or even from the malware they downloaded from that site) by their AV.
They would have lost their coins without an AV.

is phishing a virus?


it's not, is it?

But it's better than nothing right? Most of the time, AV really helps you avoid old and new viruses from time to time. If you are not a techy guy that doesn't know much about phishing, malware, and alike, at the very least anti-virus would help you secure your computer. I'm not saying AV protects you completely, it's just that it helps. The level of security still depends on the user.

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September 02, 2019, 05:46:39 AM
#18

I have to say that the guys I know whose computers were hit hard by viruses ten years ago (as in like it wipes out hard disk or it corrupts system files etc) they actually did need antivirus because they didn't know how to not open bad attachments or download stuff from internet etc.

But Bitcoin threats and Bitcoin viruses, I don't think AV really helps you because there are no Bitcoin viruses are they?



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September 02, 2019, 06:25:39 AM
#19

Well, you have obviously not been the victim of the latest Ransomware viruses that use Bitcoin as a payment option. Our company was targeted for this and all the computers with outdated AV Software got infected and files got encrypted. The other computers with the latest updates are still running without any problem.

A lot of viruses are doing things on your computer, without you even knowing it and it is only when you install a good AV software, that you realize what viruses are running in the background and once you look at the payload description for that viruses, a lot of the weird things that are happening on your computers becomes clear.

We had a bot network running on 100s of computers with outdated AV software and when we manually updated it, the bots was removed  and the users reported back that the computers was much faster than before. <The viruses stopped the automatic updates>  Angry

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September 02, 2019, 06:56:36 AM
#20

I've seen @Carlton Banks' posts, in his opinion antivirus is not necessary, since he will use a Linux. And that's good enough... for the distro he is using.

In the past he didn't understand why I'd use Windows and, I guess, why anybody would use Windows. So his advises will not be good for Windows.
Yes, for Windows a security software - Antivirus, Anti-Malware, Sandbox the unknown, Warn for phishing sites and so on - is a good (necessary) addition. If not outdated and used well, it's a great addition to security. It's clearly not wasted space.

Of course, if you install a hack in the system because you don't want to buy a key, and you also add that hack as exception into antivirus (and it's just one of many examples), of course that you are sitting on a ticking bomb.
Of course that the security software is not perfect and will have false positives too. Use sandbox for those if you really want to run them. Add exception if you are indeed 100% sure it will never be malicious.

And of course that they may send info "home", you'll have to live with that. Actually Windows also sends info "home" and if you have Windows, you already live with that.
I've read that some Linux distributions (Mint?) also do that. So .. what's the difference? One has to know all the news the sysadmins are reading (and configure accordingly) and then he'll have the safest system. The rest of the mortals will have to protect themselves with more "common" means.

And if one wants his bitcoins safe, he keeps them offline. All other options are - in a way or another - ticking bombs.





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September 02, 2019, 07:08:32 AM
#21

7-8 years ago there were password stealers who could bypass Sandboxie and had Anti-Sandbox options, I don't even know what is possible with the technological advancements today. 

as mentioned VM's can have backdoors


My reply came before your assertions:

  • Non-persistant filesystem stops malware from sticking after a reboot

what this means is that malware can do what it likes, because the VM it infects is simply a copy of a template VM that is thrown away every time you shut it down. there's also a system that destroys the user file system on shutdown also.

I've literally spent the last 5-6 years opening 30-100 "Disposable VM's" every time I sit down to use my PC. The hypervisor that shepherds the VMs is very small, and so even though I couldn't and wouldn't scrutinize the code, I can and do compile it, and there are people who can read and understand that codebase because of it's relatively small size.


please don't reply to posts if you're not even going to read them, thank you

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September 02, 2019, 07:43:17 AM
#22

I personally need AV, I like downloading and installing Windows software needs, if you find a file that is suspected to contain a virus it can be obtained at the same time as carrying it. Windows Defender only cleans viruses, the files will still be there. In addition to being vicious, third-party antivirus usually uses software or game b * jakan and cr * ck as a virus.

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September 02, 2019, 08:29:59 AM
#23

I don't think the AV is useless because as far as I've seen, the AV help the user to prevent the malware, virus, or even attacking from the other connection. The AV will alert the user to block, scan, or do something related to the current situations. It is up to the user if they want to install any of AV because I am sure that the user will want to protect their computer from something that can damage their computer. When we install Windows 10, the software has Windows Defender that will help the user to protect from the incoming attack, but we need to have the other AV to support and prevent the attacking.

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September 02, 2019, 08:40:04 AM
#24

In fact AV can really help you not to lose your funds, so my opinion on this is categorical
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September 02, 2019, 10:13:28 AM
#25

I think any user of internet should have at least some basic protection in terms of antivirus / firewall / antimalware, but most consider it unnecessary. Computers that have no protection will surely become infected over time, no matter how careful the owner is when surfing the internet. Bad things are not only on porn or torrent sites, you can get virus or malware even on this forum if you click on wrong link.

But some people think that using of any antivirus is enough, which is by no means true. In my opinion it is always better to use some reputable software, but most of them are not free, which is also reason enough for some not to use them.

In my 5+ years of using cryptocurrency on Windows OS, I was never get any virus / malware or get hacked, even if I use my PC for torrents, faucets or other potentially dangerous sites. Each attack attempt was successfully stopped by my security software, so for me it would be totally frivolous not to use security software.

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September 02, 2019, 10:38:07 AM
#26

And of course that they may send info "home", you'll have to live with that. Actually Windows also sends info "home" and if you have Windows, you already live with that.

yep


I've read that some Linux distributions (Mint?) also do that.

yep (Ubuntu does something similar also)


So .. what's the difference? One has to know all the news the sysadmins are reading (and configure accordingly) and then he'll have the safest system.

well, there's Linux users here on this forum. everything you need to know to get started is above: don't use Mint or Ubuntu (or Windows) if you want privacy. Don't use Windows if you want security, online or offline.

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September 02, 2019, 10:07:17 PM
#27

Well, you have obviously not been the victim of the latest Ransomware viruses that use Bitcoin as a payment option. Our company was targeted for this and all the computers with outdated AV Software got infected and files got encrypted. The other computers with the latest updates are still running without any problem.

A lot of viruses are doing things on your computer, without you even knowing it and it is only when you install a good AV software, that you realize what viruses are running in the background and once you look at the payload description for that viruses, a lot of the weird things that are happening on your computers becomes clear.

We had a bot network running on 100s of computers with outdated AV software and when we manually updated it, the bots was removed  and the users reported back that the computers was much faster than before. <The viruses stopped the automatic updates>  Angry

I agree! We should emphasize the importance of having our antivirus software being updated regularly since "its effectiveness is only as good

as its last update" especially on zero day exploits which is very hard to detect! Nevertheless, we should also take into account the importance

of minimizing "human factors" which greatly contributes the emergence of these types of exploits.

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September 03, 2019, 08:08:10 AM
#28

It also depend on the type of antivirus you are talking of, and also depends on the license, if you have been using all these free or cracked license, you cannot expect it to work to optimum as much as the paid one will, and secondly, it also depends on the company and the type of their antivirus that you seek for.

There are some antivirus that are specially designed for some specific things which covers some of the things that would have helped you as someone who uses a crypto wallet and also does cryptocurrency things on the laptop, I am not saying they were specially made, but they still covers it also. I have been using avast antivirus on my hp laptop for a very long time now and has not had issues of virus or malwares, although I use apple laptop for my crypto stuff, which you know apple is still quite safer.

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September 03, 2019, 08:20:04 AM
#29

@cryptojor

anti-virus is a pointless waste of space, just delete the av program


in the days when updating your system over the internet was unheard of, computer viruses sometimes did spread. in practice, they were still rare.


now, there are no malware threats that cannot be mitigated by simply choosing a secure operating system, and keeping it up to date. I've been doing exactly that for 10 years, any virus worth a damn would have stolen some of my BTC, and that hasn't happened.

I disagree.

Several user already have been warned from electrum phishing sites (or even from the malware they downloaded from that site) by their AV.
They would have lost their coins without an AV.

While AV's only recognize already known or blatantly stupid malware, every average windows- or mac user should have one installed.

And neither mac or linux are safe from malware. There is malware for these operating systems, less than 2-3%, but still it exists.
A secure operating system doesn't protect you against 1) malware being executed by non-techy people or 2) other kinds of targeted attacks (which are very costly and complex).

Changing the OS doesn't protect an absolute non-techy person at all, IMO.
Good OS in combination with common sense and some technical knowledge does.


I think it it safe to assume that you are not a clicky-pointy type of person who is running a colorful windows installation. You don't need an AV. That's fine, me neither.
But i would never suggest other people reading this (especially those running windows being not techy at all) to live without an AV. It offers at least some level of security.

If he is comfortable using a computer with all his wallet on it, then it's up to him, but it's not recommended we have studies that anti-virus has a huge purpose and it's a must if you have your own computer, but if you have a depfeeze install, and you are not putting any software on your computer, then it's up to you.

It's about preferences on how you surf online and how you use your computer, be sure you are educated enough not to use an anti virus.



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September 03, 2019, 09:00:54 AM
#30

Antivirus program is a category of program created to prevent, identify and eliminate malware infections on specific computing systems, networks which systems.

 Antivirus program, initially developed to identify and eliminate viruses from computer systems, could also defend against a multitude of threats, including some other kinds of malicious software program, like keyloggers, adware, spyware, rootkits, worms, Trojan horses, browser hijackers, ransomware and botnets.

How antivirus software functions Antivirus software generally costs like a background procedure, checking computers, mobile devices or servers to identify and limit the spread of malware. Lots of antivirus programs include real time risk detection and safeguards to guard against prospective vulnerabilities as they occur, and also system goes through that monitor product and system files searching for potential consequences.

Antivirus software typically performs these basic functions:

Specific files or scanning sites for noted malicious patterns indicating the existence of malicious software;
Allowing users to plan scans so that they run automatically;
Allowing users to begin new resulting scans at any time; and also Removing any malicious software program it detects. Some antivirus programs do it instantly in the record, while others notify owners of infection and get them in case they wish to thoroughly clean the files.
To scan systems totally, antivirus software should typically be provided privileged access to the whole program. This helps make antivirus software itself a frequent target for attackers, along with scientists have discovered remote code delivery along with other professional vulnerabilities in antivirus software solutions in the recent past.

more info here
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September 03, 2019, 09:44:02 AM
#31

Are there any linux distro where antivirus might be necessary?

difficult to see why. if there was, best advice would be don't use that distro, it must be insecure in some important way


As long as you use common security sense (always update OS, double-check links, don't use superuser account for daily usage, etc.)

lol, all of which are the opposite of typical way of using Windows

  • never update OS (as it breaks things and takes hours)
  • click on anything ("but what if I win the top prize?" Roll Eyes)
  • always use Administrator for everything ("I always get 'adminstrator needed' boxes stopping me doing stuff, so if I always need admin, I just use it for everything" :FACEPALM:)

in fairness, Mac users are arguably worse, as at least some Windows users are more cautious, because they know how flaky it can be. Mac user are like Volvo drivers; they think that because they've got the safest thing around, that means they can do the dumbest things with zero consequences

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September 03, 2019, 09:54:41 AM
#32

I don't think the AV is useless because as far as I've seen, the AV help the user to prevent the malware, virus, or even attacking from the other connection. The AV will alert the user to block, scan, or do something related to the current situations. It is up to the user if they want to install any of AV because I am sure that the user will want to protect their computer from something that can damage their computer. When we install Windows 10, the software has Windows Defender that will help the user to protect from the incoming attack, but we need to have the other AV to support and prevent the attacking.

AV is not useless. In fact for Windows is a must. But you have to keep it updated all the time otherwise is useless. Many people are not experts for cyber security, don't know what they can or can't to do protect themselves and AV could help them to protect computer or other device.
To ny opinion AV is necessary for mobile phones too, maybe even more than for computers but many people are not aware of that.

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September 03, 2019, 10:18:44 AM
#33

So .. what's the difference? One has to know all the news the sysadmins are reading (and configure accordingly) and then he'll have the safest system.

well, there's Linux users here on this forum. everything you need to know to get started is above: don't use Mint or Ubuntu (or Windows) if you want privacy. Don't use Windows if you want security, online or offline.

Most have troubles understanding all those details. For example I needed a good number of hours to understand how Tails work and see how to upgrade and use Electrum there, although I had Bitcointalk and web search. Most don't do that and many are not as technical as you'd expect.

Also, since OP started the discussion about antiviruses, he's clearly using Windows and is not afraid (or doesn't know or doesn't care) of the information leak implied by that.
While I agree that some distros of Linux are better on privacy than the rest and I agree that this kind of information has to be spread, this doesn't answer to the initial question.

So for Windows (obviously), the normal "mortals" are better if they use antivirus (actually complete security solution nowadays) and also keep offline the coins intended for HODL.





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September 03, 2019, 10:24:38 AM
#34

I am using Windows 10 with Windows Defender
Like additional protection i use VirusTotal and CCleaner to clean cookies and registry
Defender is enough for me.Avast is to heavy
But i am not loading everything to my laptop and i am very careful in a case of crypto related sites
I am also using proton vpn. I am never opening internet without proton

 
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September 03, 2019, 12:37:01 PM
#35

If he is comfortable using a computer with all his wallet on it, then it's up to him, but it's not recommended we have studies that anti-virus has a huge purpose and it's a must if you have your own computer

I can understand why he is comfortable using his PC without anti virus software. I am not using one either.
But the difference is that we aren't using windows.

If you are using windows/MAC you need some anti virus. And even with, it doesn't protect you from anything else than the most dumb and already well known malware.



I am also using proton vpn. I am never opening internet without proton

So.. you are sharing all your details and all of your privacy with proton ? A company which makes money with your information.
Are you located in such a highly critical country that you'd rather trust a company (which makes money with information) than your ISP ??

Most people use VPN's for the wrong purpose, and you might be one of them. Take a look here.

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September 03, 2019, 12:52:32 PM
#36

surfing internet without antivirus nowadays is madness
it is not useless , they form the first line defense versus the "homegrown" hackers and simple attacks
when you are targeted , antiviruses won't save you , but for an average user its a must
you can argue that many of them , especially the free ones , are taking money to blacklist sites , using other av databases , working for the government agencies and so on
nevertheless I have been using antiviruses since the first days of my internet surfing .. .career and never regret it
all of the crypto users should have one installed , IMHO , well the Windows users for sure

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September 03, 2019, 02:15:43 PM
#37

Does anyone have any experience using antiviruses that kill hidden miners in a laptop?

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September 03, 2019, 02:29:35 PM
#38

Does anyone have any experience using antiviruses that kill hidden miners in a laptop?

yes , you can try Free Kaspersky , it detects hidden miners well
alternatively , if your laptop is infected already , I suggest dr.Web Cure it!
https://free.drweb.ru/download+cureit+free/
and then polishing it off with Malware bytes:
https://www.malwarebytes.com/mwb-download/

if you have suspicious files on your laptop that you do not know the origin of , you can send them to be checked here:
https://www.virustotal.com/gui/home/upload
also working for url you want to check without visiting first


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September 03, 2019, 02:56:29 PM
#39

Does anyone have any experience using antiviruses that kill hidden miners in a laptop?

You can try to download and burn any of the rescue CDs made by the known antivirus companies. Just google for kaspersky rescue or avast rescue or whichever you prefer.
After burning the CD, boot from it and scan/disinfect. That should do quite a good job in most cases.





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September 05, 2019, 02:58:14 PM
#40

Does anyone have any experience using antiviruses that kill hidden miners in a laptop?

You can try to download and burn any of the rescue CDs made by the known antivirus companies. Just google for kaspersky rescue or avast rescue or whichever you prefer.
After burning the CD, boot from it and scan/disinfect. That should do quite a good job in most cases.
Do you claim that scanning for miners is possible only if you boot using an external source?

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September 05, 2019, 03:03:31 PM
#41

Do you claim that scanning for miners is possible only if you boot using an external source?

No. I don't make viruses or antiviruses.
But I can tell from experience that boot-time scanning can find surprises the usual antivirus may have missed or you've put them as exception and you shouldn't have done that; it may help especially if you use different company than the installed one.
(Of course, they can be a pain in the a** if you have too many valid exceptions).





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September 05, 2019, 10:07:33 PM
#42

There are many antivirus softwares on the market that comes with malware after installation. When it comes to antivirus protection for windows, am never a fan of any brand on the market. I use windows and I trust the windows defender that comes with it, that is the perfect match to fight any form  of attack.
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September 05, 2019, 11:22:24 PM
#43

I thought of this before that I don't need an anti virus as long as I don't click any suspicious link sent to my email or in the forums that I visit or use a flash drive that I don't own but sometimes we get careless that's why I believe in the saying to better have it and you don't need it, than don;t have it and you need it, and besides its just a few space in your hard drive. Just a downside of having an AV, it slows down my pc a little bit.

Slows down, but probably protects you from almost all types of up-to-date viruses that can harm your data and not just crypto either due to your mistake or by some hacker who tries to steal everything by sending continuous attacks to your PC even when you put your AV at switched off mode. And what space are these guys even talking about? It isn't really that big in size (depends on different types of AVs but still NOT THAT BIG, at least not that huge of how much blockchain captures your hard disk space) and all it has in it is the database of all types of updated viruses to save your back from being raped off. Maybe Carlton had some issues in the past or experienced something bad in the present?

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September 06, 2019, 05:20:26 AM
#44

Do you claim that scanning for miners is possible only if you boot using an external source?

No. I don't make viruses or antiviruses.
But I can tell from experience that boot-time scanning can find surprises the usual antivirus may have missed or you've put them as exception and you shouldn't have done that; it may help especially if you use different company than the installed one.
(Of course, they can be a pain in the a** if you have too many valid exceptions).
I understand you, it will be necessary to try. But which Antivirus is still better for these tasks, Kaspersky or Avast?

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September 06, 2019, 06:37:21 AM
#45

I understand you, it will be necessary to try. But which Antivirus is still better for these tasks, Kaspersky or Avast?

Avast is one I didn't use. The ones I used in the past are: Kaspersky is OK, Avira tends to give a bit more false positives, but it's not bad and it's one of the oldest, Bitdefender is also pretty good.
I didn't do this procedure for quite long, maybe a year, maybe I should do a check myself these days Wink





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September 06, 2019, 07:11:49 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
#46

I understand you, it will be necessary to try. But which Antivirus is still better for these tasks, Kaspersky or Avast?

I would be wary of Kaspersky, as they've been accused of having ties to the Russian government. They have since shaken a few things up, but why run the risk when there are other viable alternatives that aren't caught up in controversy?

I don't know about Avast, but Windows Defender should be good enough for the average user. It has been rated pretty high for a while now, and it comes with the advantage of not having to trust yet another third party (I'm assuming you trust Microsoft by running Windows lol) with potentially sensitive data. Some people recommend that it be run along with Malwarebytes. Really though, nothing will protect you more than knowledge and vigilance about potential threats.

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September 06, 2019, 08:43:29 AM
#47

Kaspersky is much more better and  I love this one. I have been using that one as well.
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September 06, 2019, 09:32:10 AM
#48

I understand you, it will be necessary to try. But which Antivirus is still better for these tasks, Kaspersky or Avast?

I would be wary of Kaspersky, as they've been accused of having ties to the Russian government. They have since shaken a few things up, but why run the risk when there are other viable alternatives that aren't caught up in controversy?

it wouldn't surprise me (and shouldn't anyone else) to learn of accusations that Avast has ties to the Czech government, or McAfee to the US government.

anti-virus companies have in the past been accused of creating new viruses to boost demand for their products. I don't know about the provenance of those claims, but certainly that incentive exists.


seeing as the anti-virus concept is a medical metaphor anyway, why not invoke another: prevention is better than cure

and so all you anti-virus advocates are doing the equivalent of eating massive bags of chips, gallons of Cola, doing zero exercise and zero research on your health, hanging out in strip clubs, then going to the doctor when you feel like shit, where you get a bunch of pills that give you so many side-effects that it's not much of an improvement on having a virus and doing nothing about it Cheesy

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September 06, 2019, 09:44:36 AM
#49

I'm surprised that a legendary will say something like this, the operating system will not save your computer because it has no mechanism that will warn you that there is an intervention going on, only an anti-virus can do that, he can say that maybe because he is not downloading applications and software.

But for me, an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure, I prefer to keep my two anti-virus to protect me.

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September 06, 2019, 09:50:43 AM
#50

@cryptojor

anti-virus is a pointless waste of space, just delete the av program


in the days when updating your system over the internet was unheard of, computer viruses sometimes did spread. in practice, they were still rare.


now, there are no malware threats that cannot be mitigated by simply choosing a secure operating system, and keeping it up to date. I've been doing exactly that for 10 years, any virus worth a damn would have stolen some of my BTC, and that hasn't happened.

I disagree.

Several user already have been warned from electrum phishing sites (or even from the malware they downloaded from that site) by their AV.
They would have lost their coins without an AV.

While AV's only recognize already known or blatantly stupid malware, every average windows- or mac user should have one installed.

And neither mac or linux are safe from malware. There is malware for these operating systems, less than 2-3%, but still it exists.
A secure operating system doesn't protect you against 1) malware being executed by non-techy people or 2) other kinds of targeted attacks (which are very costly and complex).

Changing the OS doesn't protect an absolute non-techy person at all, IMO.
Good OS in combination with common sense and some technical knowledge does.


I think it it safe to assume that you are not a clicky-pointy type of person who is running a colorful windows installation. You don't need an AV. That's fine, me neither.
But i would never suggest other people reading this (especially those running windows being not techy at all) to live without an AV. It offers at least some level of security.

Is he preaching or recommending not to use anti-virus, if that's the case people should never listen to this guy, even if he is a legendary guy, it doesn't prove that this guy is a techie guy, our computer is our bank and since this is our bank we must employ the best security you can find to prevent intrusion.

If he is ok without using an anti-virus then it's up to him but don't tell that antivirus is a waste of money and space, this is deception.

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September 06, 2019, 10:12:07 AM
#51

I understand you, it will be necessary to try. But which Antivirus is still better for these tasks, Kaspersky or Avast?

My recommendation is Norton Security, it is not free, but it is working as great protection on my PC for years. It is not only AV, but a set of security programs which include AV, firewall, antispam, exploit protection and much more. It works very nice in combination with Malwarebytes Pro, and this is something that I consider good protection on Windows OS.

Most of security software is available in trial version, so it is possible to try it for 15 or 30 days completely free.

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September 06, 2019, 12:01:35 PM
#52

Is he preaching or recommending not to use anti-virus, if that's the case people should never listen to this guy, even if he is a legendary guy, it doesn't prove that this guy is a techie guy, our computer is our bank and since this is our bank we must employ the best security you can find to prevent intrusion.

If he is ok without using an anti-virus then it's up to him but don't tell that antivirus is a waste of money and space, this is deception.


You should start to properly read the thread before replying in it.
He is not recommending to not use an AV. He was saying that - under some circumstances - an AV is not necessary, which is absolutely correct.

You have to realize that not everyone is using the least secure operating system on this planet. And not everyone is clicking on every shiny button which promises free money.
Just because you are one of them, who can not stay safe without an AV, this doesn't mean that people with a proper risk management can't.


So, please. Instead of spamming threads just to get your signature payment, read them and bring value to it.

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September 06, 2019, 02:28:31 PM
#53

He is not recommending to not use an AV. He was saying that - under some circumstances - an AV is not necessary, which is absolutely correct.

well, I'm saying that it's really never necessary.

even if you need a Windows only application, if you spend a little more on RAM for your computer, you could run it in a virtual machine and keep it isolated from the source of viruses (i.e. webpages & other internet activity would be separate, no anti virus needed if virus attack vectors are kept separate)


interesting how this user has to attack me, apparently because I've been on bitcointalk for a long time?

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September 06, 2019, 04:35:02 PM
#54

He is not recommending to not use an AV. He was saying that - under some circumstances - an AV is not necessary, which is absolutely correct.

well, I'm saying that it's really never necessary.

You are making it really really hard to help defending your point of view.

To be correct.. it is never necessary IF you know what you are doing. But how many people know what they are doing ? Like 3-5% ?



even if you need a Windows only application, if you spend a little more on RAM for your computer, you could run it in a virtual machine and keep it isolated from the source of viruses (i.e. webpages & other internet activity would be separate, no anti virus needed if virus attack vectors are kept separate)

The problem is not that people need 'a windows only application', but they need windows because it has become their habit and they are too stubborn to learn something new.
And exactly these people need an AV.

You don't need one. I don't need one. And probably 98% of all Unix user don't need one.
But the remaining 95%+ (almost) of people need one.



interesting how this user has to attack me, apparently because I've been on bitcointalk for a long time?

He is attacking you because you have a different point of view.
It is like if you would say you'd believe the earth is a globe.. in that case you'd get a way bigger shitstorm  Cheesy

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September 06, 2019, 04:39:56 PM
#55

In most cases, the virus enters the computer due to inattention or lack of knowledge of the user. Therefore, first of all, you need to improve your knowledge in this.
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September 06, 2019, 05:38:32 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
#56

@cryptojor

anti-virus is a pointless waste of space, just delete the av program


in the days when updating your system over the internet was unheard of, computer viruses sometimes did spread. in practice, they were still rare.


now, there are no malware threats that cannot be mitigated by simply choosing a secure operating system, and keeping it up to date. I've been doing exactly that for 10 years, any virus worth a damn would have stolen some of my BTC, and that hasn't happened.

I disagree.

Several user already have been warned from electrum phishing sites (or even from the malware they downloaded from that site) by their AV.
They would have lost their coins without an AV.

While AV's only recognize already known or blatantly stupid malware, every average windows- or mac user should have one installed.

And neither mac or linux are safe from malware. There is malware for these operating systems, less than 2-3%, but still it exists.
A secure operating system doesn't protect you against 1) malware being executed by non-techy people or 2) other kinds of targeted attacks (which are very costly and complex).

Changing the OS doesn't protect an absolute non-techy person at all, IMO.
Good OS in combination with common sense and some technical knowledge does.


I think it it safe to assume that you are not a clicky-pointy type of person who is running a colorful windows installation. You don't need an AV. That's fine, me neither.
But i would never suggest other people reading this (especially those running windows being not techy at all) to live without an AV. It offers at least some level of security.

Actually, Carlton is correct. The ones that benefit the most are the ones that know the less, such an user somebody else sets up a system for them to browse the web. That doesn't replace "common sense", but mitigates the problem like 80%. Ie: you are in Linux, you click the link to a phishing electrum site, then... Nothing happens. You don't have admin rights to be installing garbage in the first place. (And last i actually visited an actual Electrum phishing site, they didn't even bother to change the Linux version lol).

With Windows you assume the fallacy that your up to date antivirus will protect you, which is why the term zero day came to be. Zero day, nobody has identified it yet, you won't be protected, period.

If you change the OS for a "know nothing" user (ie. Granma, or whoever), your support calls will probably go down to nearly zero. The best "protected" Windows will however break one way or the other, maybe less often maybe more often, but rest assured, it will. Linux properly set up? Install and forget.

I have 30+ years of IT experience, used Windows since v3.0, and Linux since Redhat 4.1 era.

Of course if your intent is making money doing IT support, Windows is your friend. For voluntary work? Heck no.

And BTW Windows does bundle "Windows Defender", this might be why some "indows users don't bother with an antivirus. I cannot say they are wrong, keeping Windows safe takes a lot of experience, or what you call "common sense", but in addition to that you need to "protect" it in several ways, including anti-malware, firewall, etc.

So to summarize, nothing is absolute, but Carlton is far closer to the truth than you are. Oh, and if you think you could also "secure" a Windows install, you can to some degree, but never to the same level of protection. The end user is not even at fault, new exploits come everyday and many do not require user intervention at all. For those, no amount of "common sense" would save you. And you are expecting those "less savvy users" to be essentially sysadmins...

Now that i think about it, given that I removed Windows from my dual boot setup in 2007, i could also join Carlton's testimony. 12 years without no stinking AV slowing down everything and failing to ultimately protect, just a decent OS that won't easily let garbage in by default, and yes, "common" sense...

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September 06, 2019, 06:02:52 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
#57

even if you need a Windows only application, if you spend a little more on RAM for your computer, you could run it in a virtual machine and keep it isolated from the source of viruses (i.e. webpages & other internet activity would be separate, no anti virus needed if virus attack vectors are kept separate)

The problem is not that people need 'a windows only application', but they need windows because it has become their habit and they are too stubborn to learn something new.
And exactly these people need an AV.

hmmmm, well....

I agree, with that


But I suppose I should clarify: I'm saying this in the context of the fact we're on the Bitcointalk forum. If there's anyone who needs the incentive to take charge of their computer's security, instead of letting someone else do it for them, it's people who use Bitcoin. We should be making that loud and clear, for the sake of newbies who just don't have such a need for a secure computer.

Bottom line (well, 2nd to the bottom Cheesy ): If someone robs your BTC, or you're a ransomware victim, it's your problem for being complacent



(as an aside; what you're inadvertently highlighting is, that most Windows users only use 1 application, period: web browser. which works much better on Linux, and exactly the same, so no-one needs to learn anything new to do it Smiley )

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September 06, 2019, 06:22:49 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
#58

Are there any linux distro where antivirus might be necessary?

difficult to see why. if there was, best advice would be don't use that distro, it must be insecure in some important way

Or the distro got lots of donation from AV company, which is very unlikely.

I am also using proton vpn. I am never opening internet without proton

Any VPN won't prevent your device infected, unless it's explicitly block known dangerous website. VPN was meant to prevent censorship and partial privacy protection (assuming you trust the provider).

Lol no. VPN was intended to make your "local" network not local. Ie. a company with many branches all their computers to be part "of the same LAN" but in reality be in separate (distant) places. It wasn't intended for anti-censorship or privacy, but it can be somewhat useful for that, because you are technically using the router of this virtual network, which, can happen to be located in a different country. Oh and its encrypted, that helps too.

This is important because you must know what it was truly designed for and is not really against. Anti-censorship software is something like Tor, which was designed with that intent.

As for Linux, there is a reason to use an AV there, which is to disinfect malware ridden files from windows users, such as in a mail server scan attachments, etc. No way any malware would execute there, of course. Another example would be to clean the typical infected USB thumb/stick without formatting it. Not that it would be needed for Linux itself, malware for Linux is rare because it (usually) needs (a lot of) user interaction.

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September 07, 2019, 08:42:49 PM
#59

I understand you, it will be necessary to try. But which Antivirus is still better for these tasks, Kaspersky or Avast?

My recommendation is Norton Security, it is not free, but it is working as great protection on my PC for years. It is not only AV, but a set of security programs which include AV, firewall, antispam, exploit protection and much more. It works very nice in combination with Malwarebytes Pro, and this is something that I consider good protection on Windows OS.

Most of security software is available in trial version, so it is possible to try it for 15 or 30 days completely free.
About ten years ago  last time I heard about Norton Security, and now I think, maybe install Linux?)

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September 08, 2019, 10:26:39 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
#60

But I suppose I should clarify: I'm saying this in the context of the fact we're on the Bitcointalk forum. If there's anyone who needs the incentive to take charge of their computer's security, instead of letting someone else do it for them, it's people who use Bitcoin. We should be making that loud and clear, for the sake of newbies who just don't have such a need for a secure computer.

Well, theoretically you are right.

But in reality, the majority of bitcoin users on this forum aren't people who want to break free from the financial system, but want to get rich..quick.
They don't even understand how BTC works in a very shallow way.
They don't care much about their computer. They use cracked software on their windows, are still using windows 7 and click "yes" on every pop-up which appears.

You really can't protect them from themselves. Even with a linux distro they would get their coins stolen through simple phishing.


If someone is willing to learn and wants to have his coins secured and actually cares about information security, then yes. Such a person should know that linux is superior to windows and should definitely switch.



(as an aside; what you're inadvertently highlighting is, that most Windows users only use 1 application, period: web browser. which works much better on Linux, and exactly the same, so no-one needs to learn anything new to do it Smiley )

Well.. that's true.
But they also need to write letters. And you know.. libreoffice writer is soooo much different from microsoft word. It is not the original one.

And what about their plug&play hardware devices ?
While quite a lot of distros are making a good job and being plug&play, some intervention is still need from time to time.
And for people who are extremely far aways from technology, this simply is too much.

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September 08, 2019, 10:34:20 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
#61

About ten years ago  last time I heard about Norton Security, and now I think, maybe install Linux?)

It's your decision, you can try both and decide what suits you best. There will always be those who will advise others to use Linux, and to forget on Windows and all the dangers that come with it. I personally used Linux few times, but most of time I am on Windows, which suits me perfectly because I think I have sufficient protection, and because I use common sense.

Regarding cryptocurrency, I move my coins to hardware wallet, because regardless of the level of protection and OS, something so security-sensitive should not be on PC.

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September 08, 2019, 12:14:39 PM
#62

About ten years ago  last time I heard about Norton Security, and now I think, maybe install Linux?)

It's your decision, you can try both and decide what suits you best. There will always be those who will advise others to use Linux, and to forget on Windows and all the dangers that come with it. I personally used Linux few times, but most of time I am on Windows, which suits me perfectly because I think I have sufficient protection, and because I use common sense.

Regarding cryptocurrency, I move my coins to hardware wallet, because regardless of the level of protection and OS, something so security-sensitive should not be on PC.
I will try Norton antivirus but maybe you are right , everybody needs to buy a hard wallet .

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September 08, 2019, 12:19:42 PM
#63

You will need AV only if you are installing softs from strange place and dont check address bar on important sites
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September 08, 2019, 05:10:22 PM
#64

Kaspersky is much more better and  I love this one. I have been using that one as well.
I think most of these antiviruses are just deceiving us and claiming they are catching viruses for us meanwhile they are not, if you use Kaspersky today and it tells you that your system is free of virus, uninstall it and install avast, you will see that avast will detect a virus for you.  

The only one that I have seen that has been quite very effective for me and not even as expensive as all these other ones that I mentioned is total 360, I think this one was specifically designed for those string and stubborn virus that can steal our information from us and probably use it to steal our money if the information can lead to money theft. If I am therefore to recommend any antivirus to anyone, I think it would be total 360, you guys can try that one out and see its effectiveness.

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September 08, 2019, 06:18:19 PM
#65

Kaspersky is much more better and  I love this one. I have been using that one as well.
I think most of these antiviruses are just deceiving us and claiming they are catching viruses for us meanwhile they are not, if you use Kaspersky today and it tells you that your system is free of virus, uninstall it and install avast, you will see that avast will detect a virus for you.  

The only one that I have seen that has been quite very effective for me and not even as expensive as all these other ones that I mentioned is total 360, I think this one was specifically designed for those string and stubborn virus that can steal our information from us and probably use it to steal our money if the information can lead to money theft. If I am therefore to recommend any antivirus to anyone, I think it would be total 360, you guys can try that one out and see its effectiveness.
I never use the total 360 antiviruses before but I don't know where you get the information you said about Kaspersky antivirus because I used on my phone and I never had issues. Besides, it detected harmful app which somehow auto-install themselves on phone and told me to remove it.
In addition, I could remember that Kaspersky was mentioned as the best antivirus last year.

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September 09, 2019, 09:33:10 AM
#66

About ten years ago  last time I heard about Norton Security, and now I think, maybe install Linux?)

It's your decision, you can try both and decide what suits you best. There will always be those who will advise others to use Linux, and to forget on Windows and all the dangers that come with it. I personally used Linux few times, but most of time I am on Windows, which suits me perfectly because I think I have sufficient protection, and because I use common sense.

Regarding cryptocurrency, I move my coins to hardware wallet, because regardless of the level of protection and OS, something so security-sensitive should not be on PC.
I will try Norton antivirus but maybe you are right , everybody needs to buy a hard wallet .
My problem is that I am not doing anything, all tasks are closed, and my CPU is always 100% busy.

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September 09, 2019, 09:50:51 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
#67

My problem is that I am not doing anything, all tasks are closed, and my CPU is always 100% busy.

If you don't use any protection and Windows OS you probably have some malicious program which causes such processor load. There are two ways to solve the problem, first is to save all your data and format hard disk / install new OS., And second is to try to remove the threat with some antivirus / antimalware. I already gave you a suggestion, you can try both programs for free :

- https://security.symantec.com/
- https://www.malwarebytes.com/

You will get better results if you scan in safe mode, so after you download those programs update their database with latest definitions, and go to safe mode (check how to do that for your OS).

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September 10, 2019, 08:10:36 PM
#68

My problem is that I am not doing anything, all tasks are closed, and my CPU is always 100% busy.

If you don't use any protection and Windows OS you probably have some malicious program which causes such processor load. There are two ways to solve the problem, first is to save all your data and format hard disk / install new OS., And second is to try to remove the threat with some antivirus / antimalware. I already gave you a suggestion, you can try both programs for free :

- https://security.symantec.com/
- https://www.malwarebytes.com/

You will get better results if you scan in safe mode, so after you download those programs update their database with latest definitions, and go to safe mode (check how to do that for your OS).
I have Kaspersky Anti-Virus installed, but it seems to me that it does not see all the problems. If I will use these programs that you recommended, am I  need to format the disk?  I'm too lazy to reinstall the OS.

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September 11, 2019, 09:30:57 AM
#69

I have Kaspersky Anti-Virus installed, but it seems to me that it does not see all the problems.

No AV will ever find all problems.
In fact they only find a very small subset of malware.



If I will use these programs that you recommended, am I  need to format the disk? 

No.



I'm too lazy to reinstall the OS.

So.. you are too lazy to be sure that your computer is clean ?
Then you'll live with the fact that your PC might be compromised.

Even malware-removing tools won't guarantee you that all malware will be removed.

You have to choose between convenience and security.

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September 11, 2019, 11:06:18 AM
#70

I have Kaspersky Anti-Virus installed, but it seems to me that it does not see all the problems. If I will use these programs that you recommended, am I  need to format the disk?  I'm too lazy to reinstall the OS.

You do not need to format disk at this point, first you can try to clean your device with software which I recommend to you. It is important to remove Kaspersky before you install Norton Security, two AV will only make problems. After you install those programs first update them with latest definitions, and then make full scan of your device with each of them (one at the time).

After scan/s your will probably need to restart device, and then you will see do you still have problem with overloaded CPU. It would be better to make scans in safe mode, but it is up to you.

Formating disk is maybe best solution, and then installing of security software. I think the worst option is to do nothing, or postpone this task as you doing it now.

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September 11, 2019, 11:34:53 AM
#71

I'm too lazy to reinstall the OS.

So.. you are too lazy to be sure that your computer is clean ?
Then you'll live with the fact that your PC might be compromised.

Even malware-removing tools won't guarantee you that all malware will be removed.

You have to choose between convenience and security.

Not a surprise to be honest. If we look at how little time people devote to securely storing their coins offline, then similarly, they will not bother to care about other aspects of security.

I would say that a very large percentage of the people who leave their coins on an exchange, do that because they are too lazy to withdraw them. Prior to that they would have to search for a proper client, download the client, write down a seed phrase, and then store the piece of paper somewhere. To us it seems completely illogical, but this is how people are unfortunately.

People who choose for convenience thus far have always paid a hefty price for it. Losing coins is probably the only way for people to learn.
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September 11, 2019, 07:16:50 PM
#72

I have Kaspersky Anti-Virus installed, but it seems to me that it does not see all the problems. If I will use these programs that you recommended, am I  need to format the disk?  I'm too lazy to reinstall the OS.

You do not need to format disk at this point, first you can try to clean your device with software which I recommend to you. It is important to remove Kaspersky before you install Norton Security, two AV will only make problems. After you install those programs first update them with latest definitions, and then make full scan of your device with each of them (one at the time).

After scan/s your will probably need to restart device, and then you will see do you still have problem with overloaded CPU. It would be better to make scans in safe mode, but it is up to you.

Formating disk is maybe best solution, and then installing of security software. I think the worst option is to do nothing, or postpone this task as you doing it now.
Well, you convinced me, I will reinstall the operating system to the new one. But I will be forced to transfer all my personal data to an external hdd. Will the virus be transferred to external hdd along with the files?

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September 11, 2019, 08:21:43 PM
Merited by ETFbitcoin (1)
#73

You do not need to format disk at this point, first you can try to clean your device with software which I recommend to you. It is important to remove Kaspersky before you install Norton Security, two AV will only make problems. After you install those programs first update them with latest definitions, and then make full scan of your device with each of them (one at the time).

After scan/s your will probably need to restart device, and then you will see do you still have problem with overloaded CPU. It would be better to make scans in safe mode, but it is up to you.

Formating disk is maybe best solution, and then installing of security software. I think the worst option is to do nothing, or postpone this task as you doing it now.
Well, you convinced me, I will reinstall the operating system to the new one. But I will be forced to transfer all my personal data to an external hdd. Will the virus be transferred to external hdd along with the files?

If you use Windows, probably. If you are smart and switch to Linux, boot from Linux to do your backup and then install Linux, its probably the end of the virus even if you do accidentally copy it with the backup. Or you could use clamav afterwards to remove it from the safety of Linux.

You are never going to get rid of malware with Windows, no amount of slow OS making software or "common" sense can protect you enough. In fact, you can spend hours and hours fixing it everything, only to have your system infected minutes after you finish, or have a fool friend bring it with his usb stick...

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September 12, 2019, 08:03:32 AM
#74

But I will be forced to transfer all my personal data to an external hdd. Will the virus be transferred to external hdd along with the files?

Not as long as you only move personal data (documents, pictures, music, etc.. ).
I hope you don't see executable files as personal data. As long as you don't, you are most probably fine.

Just don't copy your whole hard drive over. And try to not copy any software over (which always is a mess with windows anyway).

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September 12, 2019, 11:47:40 AM
#75

I have a feeling that some antiviruses have bugs built in to track and save your wallet passwords
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September 12, 2019, 12:39:51 PM
#76

To help prevent things that we don't want. of course other than we are careful and do not make fundamental mistakes so that the computer can be hacked. it is very recommended to keep using AV because AV needs are still very important. we still need protection assistance with facilities that are already available at AV.

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September 12, 2019, 03:22:03 PM
#77

it is very recommended to keep using AV

no it isn't

it's recommended to use good software that's not so broken that it even needs extra software for security

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September 12, 2019, 04:45:15 PM
#78

I disagree.

Several user already have been warned from electrum phishing sites (or even from the malware they downloaded from that site) by their AV.
They would have lost their coins without an AV.

is phishing a virus?


it's not, is it?

But it's better than nothing right? Most of the time, AV really helps you avoid old and new viruses from time to time. If you are not a techy guy that doesn't know much about phishing, malware, and alike, at the very least anti-virus would help you secure your computer. I'm not saying AV protects you completely, it's just that it helps. The level of security still depends on the user.
This is actually right where it is much more better if we do have AV than have nothing at all.Come to think that you can even get a full or pro version via cracked without spending some dime into your wallet but be careful on downloading due to lots of malware spread up so its still risky though but they are there.For those who don't care too much with their own desktops and fan of downloading randomly online then AV would be at least a good tool for some sort of protection and as said it might not be totally safe but a considerable software to have.

New and updated viruses as the years passed by do exist that's why if we are looking for some good AV then better pick one of the best.Im using ESET nod32 professional and it do keeps updating.I cant say I'm 100% safe but I'm little bit confident that I do have it.The primary thing needed for you not to be hacked is on your own common sense.

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September 12, 2019, 06:59:46 PM
#79

This is actually right where it is much more better if we do have AV than have nothing at all.

This - as a general statement - is wrong.

It depends on a lot of factors, mostly the OS. If you are using windows.. then yes, you need some AV.
But why are you using windows in the first place ? Because you like the clicky-pointy way of opening applications ? Is it worth compromising your security for that ?

An AV can slow down your system pretty heavily. It always depends on what you need and what tradeoffs you are willing to take.



Come to think that you can even get a full or pro version via cracked without spending some dime

Sure.. get a cracked version for free.
Because that is surely not infected with malware  Roll Eyes

I mean.. come on.. are you really that naive ?



New and updated viruses as the years passed by do exist that's why if we are looking for some good AV then better pick one of the best.

Exactly these new and 'updated' viruses (you meant malware, right ?) won't be detected by AV's.

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September 12, 2019, 07:19:41 PM
#80

I don't think that Antivirus are so important.
They provide you the basic protection, but the user should be cautious in every action he does on his PC. If you don't be careful and download malicious content or press on dangerous links, the antivirus won't be the one to be blamed.

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September 12, 2019, 07:26:41 PM
#81

I don't think that Antivirus are so important.
They provide you the basic protection, but the user should be cautious in every action he does on his PC. If you don't be careful and download malicious content or press on dangerous links, the antivirus won't be the one to be blamed.
But what is the problem to install antivirus and donít worry? It is very easy app.

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September 12, 2019, 07:36:37 PM
#82

But what is the problem to install antivirus and donít worry? It is very easy app.

The company behind the software is collecting lots of data. They are using that data to make money.
And it slows down your computer pretty heavily since it needs quite a lot of resources.

But what is the problem to install a proper OS and don't worry? It is very easy software.
You don't want to use a secure OS and other people don't want to use a software which slows down their PC.

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September 12, 2019, 09:20:42 PM
#83

Whether an antivirus will provide a net benefit depends on how technically proficient and security conscious the user is, for many all it will do is increase the attack surface seeing how complex and easily exploitable AV software is.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3020327/antivirus-software-could-make-your-company-more-vulnerable.html
https://www.zdnet.com/article/this-new-malware-exploits-bugs-in-antivirus-software-to-steal-your-data/

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September 13, 2019, 12:03:03 AM
#84

But I will be forced to transfer all my personal data to an external hdd. Will the virus be transferred to external hdd along with the files?

Not as long as you only move personal data (documents, pictures, music, etc.. ).
I hope you don't see executable files as personal data. As long as you don't, you are most probably fine.

Just don't copy your whole hard drive over. And try to not copy any software over (which always is a mess with windows anyway).

As if viruses did not infect "documents". I wonder if you are even familiar with the concept of "macro" virus? And, how about exploits to the image rendering system abused from pictures? I also have bad news to you about music, its tagging system, and exploiting the bundled players...

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September 13, 2019, 06:22:19 AM
#85

@cryptojor

anti-virus is a pointless waste of space, just delete the av program

Recently I just found a trojan virus in my pc where it mines cryptocurrency without my consent. Good thing I always look at task manager and found out about that where its usage is very high. I searched a solution on the internet and suggested me to download an antivirus. I downloaded bitdefender, scan my computer and removed that virus.

At first I also don't believe on those programs as I think they just make my pc lag but after that incident happened I will always install antivirus software.

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prix
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September 13, 2019, 06:32:38 AM
#86

You don't want to use a secure OS and other people don't want to use a software which slows down their PC.

There are no secure OS. Bugs and vulnerabilities are everywhere. The same goes for software.
Even more most of the vulnerabilities come from applications not from OS.
And there are more popular software and less popular. Less popular is less studied.

In general security is more dependent on user actions and the set of applications, and not on an OS.

As for me, I don't use antivirus almost, only firewalls and HIPS systems.
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September 13, 2019, 06:51:23 AM
#87

it is very recommended to keep using AV

no it isn't

it's recommended to use good software that's not so broken that it even needs extra software for security

That is true but every software comes vulnerable from time to time. New threats are designed every day and you can't be fully protected but still antivirus can help. And we all know how little people still know and care about cybersecurity.

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September 13, 2019, 07:25:10 AM
#88

As if viruses did not infect "documents". I wonder if you are even familiar with the concept of "macro" virus? And, how about exploits to the image rendering system abused from pictures? I also have bad news to you about music, its tagging system, and exploiting the bundled players...

Wow.
This post is just to reach your quota for your sig payment it seems ?


We are not talking about exploits here. This is not about what can be exploited.
This was about how he can move to a new system backing up his files.

What does an exploit in any rendering software to do with that ?
Also, do you really believe a malware will 'infect' all .doc files with a "macro virus" ?? Do you really believe that ?
You do know that they have to be explicitly allowed to be executed by the user ?

What can or can not be exploited was never the topic here.
If you are not familiar with the 5/7 stages of a malware attack, that's fine. But please don't write such a nonsense. Or at least don't quote/mention me while doing it.


P.s. The term you were looking for is malware, not virus. A virus is just a small subcategory of malware. Google it.



You don't want to use a secure OS and other people don't want to use a software which slows down their PC.

There are no secure OS. Bugs and vulnerabilities are everywhere. The same goes for software.
Even more most of the vulnerabilities come from applications not from OS.

There is no 100% secure OS, yes.
But Windows is by far the least secure OS of all available ones.

A professional administrator needs days of work to get a windows network close to be as a secure as a linux network is by default.
And a few hours invested into a linux network will make a big difference again.

Windows is having more than enough vulnerabilities each month. Linux and MacOS too, but not this extent.
And i am only talking about security vulnerabilities know.. ignoring all the bugs windows has (boot loop, files deleted, takes an hour to update ... ).

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September 13, 2019, 10:14:11 AM
#89

anti-virus is a pointless waste of space, just delete the av program

Recently I just found a trojan virus in my pc where it mines cryptocurrency without my consent.

you wouldn't be getting viruses if you took even a small amount of responsibility for your security


installing anti-virus is basically the same as saying "I don't know what I'm doing, or what's going on". The anti-virus program can't protect you if that's the case, if you think it will, then you'll do dangerous things with your computer, then get a virus.

learning about basic security is how to avoid viruses and malware, if you let someone do it for you for free, they won't do a good job. When was the last time someone provided a good service when they do it for free, lol

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September 13, 2019, 01:13:19 PM
#90

@cryptojor

anti-virus is a pointless waste of space, just delete the av program


in the days when updating your system over the internet was unheard of, computer viruses sometimes did spread. in practice, they were still rare.


now, there are no malware threats that cannot be mitigated by simply choosing a secure operating system, and keeping it up to date. I've been doing exactly that for 10 years, any virus worth a damn would have stolen some of my BTC, and that hasn't happened.

I disagree.

Several user already have been warned from electrum phishing sites (or even from the malware they downloaded from that site) by their AV.
They would have lost their coins without an AV.

While AV's only recognize already known or blatantly stupid malware, every average windows- or mac user should have one installed.

And neither mac or linux are safe from malware. There is malware for these operating systems, less than 2-3%, but still it exists.
A secure operating system doesn't protect you against 1) malware being executed by non-techy people or 2) other kinds of targeted attacks (which are very costly and complex).

Changing the OS doesn't protect an absolute non-techy person at all, IMO.
Good OS in combination with common sense and some technical knowledge does.


I think it it safe to assume that you are not a clicky-pointy type of person who is running a colorful windows installation. You don't need an AV. That's fine, me neither.
But i would never suggest other people reading this (especially those running windows being not techy at all) to live without an AV. It offers at least some level of security.

Maybe what he means is by choosing Linux OS because it is much safer to use, because anti-virus main target is the Windows type OS but even Linux can be targetted by a virus, as stated by this article here
 https://www.pcworld.com/article/3156931/why-malware-should-be-a-concern-for-all-linux-users-and-what-to-do-about-it.html

There's really no safe OS and users should be educated on how to protect himself from getting infected.

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September 13, 2019, 01:30:51 PM
#91

As if viruses did not infect "documents". I wonder if you are even familiar with the concept of "macro" virus? And, how about exploits to the image rendering system abused from pictures? I also have bad news to you about music, its tagging system, and exploiting the bundled players...

Wow.
This post is just to reach your quota for your sig payment it seems ?


We are not talking about exploits here. This is not about what can be exploited.
This was about how he can move to a new system backing up his files.

What does an exploit in any rendering software to do with that ?
Also, do you really believe a malware will 'infect' all .doc files with a "macro virus" ?? Do you really believe that ?
You do know that they have to be explicitly allowed to be executed by the user ?

What can or can not be exploited was never the topic here.
If you are not familiar with the 5/7 stages of a malware attack, that's fine. But please don't write such a nonsense. Or at least don't quote/mention me while doing it.


P.s. The term you were looking for is malware, not virus. A virus is just a small subcategory of malware. Google it.

I quote you because you are mistaken. You said he wouldn't copy the virus by copying "documents, pictures and music", and that is a lie, and yes i am correcting you.

I don't get why you even mention something about the signature campaign, which you clearly also participate in...

And no, the term when it was coined, and i think still is, was clearly macro virus, not macro malware.


So let me repeat it so you get it, and prepare to be corrected every single time i spot you telling a lie: YES HE MAY COPY THE VIRUS WHEN DOING THE BACKUP, or malware if you like the newer fashion, which may also include the spyware crap.

Can the virus infect ALL doc files? OF COURSE. This is not a matter of beliefs, it simply depends which one infects the system and is running. Do i have to mention the ransomware crap too? but again, you are the one familiar with the term malware...

THE BACKUP CAN COPY THE MALWARE. If he does it from a secure os, such as Linux running live from a dvd, the copying won't execute it, that is, until he opens a freshly installed windows, open the file and executes it (ie. the macro virus).

If he was smart, and instead used Linux as the new OS, then very likely the virus won't execute, if only because Libreoffice would probably ignore it (hoping he didn't just run MSOffice from wine)..

OF COURSE he could also try using clamav while running the live Linux to the backup data, before moving forward.

And no, i don't need you to explain me the "5/7" stages of malware infection, good for you knowing it, go ahead and explain it to them...

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September 13, 2019, 01:49:32 PM
#92

I quote you because you are mistaken. You said he wouldn't copy the virus by copying "documents, pictures and music", and that is a lie, and yes i am correcting you.

He might be copying the infected file, but not the malware which itself is running in the background migrated into another process.
These processes won't be started on the new install at all.

If he obvioulsy opens the infected file and get infected again.. well of course his compuer will be compromised again..


And he most probably is NOT infected with a virus, but with another kind of malware.



I don't get why you even mention something about the signature campaign, which you clearly also participate in...

Because you participate in a spam campaign. I don't.
And your postquality also backs this up.



And no, the term when it was coined, and i think still is, was clearly macro virus, not macro malware.

A virus is defined by the way it spreads itself. A virus spreads itself by exploiting vulnerabilities automatically resulting in a lot of infections at a fast pace.



THE BACKUP CAN COPY THE MALWARE. If he does it from a secure os, such as Linux running live from a dvd, the copying won't execute it, that is, until he opens a freshly installed windows, open the file and executes it (ie. the macro virus).

Copying never executes the malware. Doesn't matter whether from linux or windows.
If he decides to open an infected doc file and allowing macros to be execued (which has to be done explicitly), then he is at fault.

Most probably he got infected in a different way.


Now, please stop spreading your dangerous sciolism.

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