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Author Topic: ANN threads shouldn't be self-moderated  (Read 332 times)
hosseinimr93
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September 04, 2019, 05:02:56 PM
Merited by NJB18 (1)
 #1

Every day, some new ANN threads are created in the forum. Many of these ANN threads are self-moderated. In my opinion, posting self-moderated topics shouldn't be allowed on "Announcements (Altcoins)".
In most cases, they make the topics self-moderated to be able to delete any post complaining them. Instead of deleting the posts, they should report the posts and posts are deleted only by moderators.
I know there are many spams in these topics. They can be only allowed to delete the posts that are made by newbies.

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September 04, 2019, 05:22:04 PM
 #2

It is still helpful overall I think. It's supposed to combat spam only but if you believe someone is abusing self-moderation to censor and/or cover their scammy/shady projects, I believe you can always create a scam accusation/reputation thread. I don't know if you were able to witness how a fellow was confronted for deleting messages and hiding his human rights foundation scam.

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September 04, 2019, 05:29:41 PM
 #3

It will only make a lot more work for moderators.
I proposed earlier that Brand New and Newbie account should not be even allowed to create new Topics (they can still create posts),
BUT if that is to drastic for many people, then Newbies should NOT be allowed to create Self-moderated Topics
multiple also

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September 04, 2019, 05:31:28 PM
Merited by hosseinimr93 (1)
 #4

abusing self-moderation to censor and/or cover their scammy/shady projects
This snippet above is the only problem I can see with self-moderated ANN threads, and I have no doubt whatsoever that some projects will do this.  On the other hand, if you've ever seen one of these ANN threads you'll realize that about 95% of the posts there should be deleted. 

The only question I have is whether the shitposts are being paid for by the project in order to bump the thread.  If that's the case, then there's no reason to have a self-moderated thread, because then you know damn well that the OP isn't going to delete anything except for posts he doesn't like.  I have a sneaking suspicion that most ANN thread starters love the bumping garbage posts.


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September 04, 2019, 06:28:08 PM
Merited by hosseinimr93 (1)
 #5

It is still helpful overall I think. It's supposed to combat spam only but if you believe someone is abusing self-moderation to censor and/or cover their scammy/shady projects, I believe you can always create a scam accusation/reputation thread.

Just as The Pharmacist said, but I don't have only a suspicion about, I'm pretty sure Tongue.

Let's be a bit more realistic here, no OP is going to delete useless posts when those are actually helping his ICO or Altcoin announcement to be on the first page in that section, they all know that if they delete those they lose a lot of bumps and spammers would avoid them, go to others topics and bumps those instead.
Probably less than 0.1% of the authors out there care about quality and not about keeping the topics spammed and alive on the first page.

As for the ever invoked motive of "FUD", there are only a few coins, again some 0..something percent where FUD is not actually reality.

LE
Took me 2 minutes:
Self-moderated topic:
http://archive.fo/fGQQv

Quote
brilliant project ,i like this
Amazing nice t project ,i like this
we believe this project has good future
very interesting project

Not that the two liners in the topic were something else...

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September 04, 2019, 07:08:06 PM
 #6

+10

Would be nice that New user cant make self moderated thread so they cant delete things like when you post in there thats the ANN is fake or have Malware in it or such other things
like Scam or else !

Selfmoderated Threads can be done with min of 5 Merits or something like that and also maybe Chopper Members can do it !
Would be nice if that gets inplemented from theymos !

Will helping a lot Users for bust Spammers and Scammer !
hosseinimr93
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September 04, 2019, 09:41:08 PM
 #7

It is still helpful overall I think. It's supposed to combat spam only but if you believe someone is abusing self-moderation to censor and/or cover their scammy/shady projects, I believe you can always create a scam accusation/reputation thread. I don't know if you were able to witness how a fellow was confronted for deleting messages and hiding his human rights foundation scam.
If I believe that a project or a token is a scam, I would certainly make a new topic on "Scam accusation" thread. But some times only I want to make a complain. for example I complain about how they are conducting the ICO, bonuses, KYC, exchanges, etc. The ANN thread is the best place to talk about these issues. It's not convenient to make a new topic.  

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September 05, 2019, 02:17:48 AM
 #8

It will only make a lot more work for moderators.
I proposed earlier that Brand New and Newbie account should not be even allowed to create new Topics (they can still create posts),
BUT if that is to drastic for many people, then Newbies should NOT be allowed to create Self-moderated Topics
multiple also

I agree with this one, newbies are the one that's creating new ICO announcement thread and they want it moderated so no one can post negative feedback on their project, I believe ICO or new announcement should be unmoderated so people can judge and can give a fair opinion about the project.

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September 05, 2019, 04:10:51 AM
Last edit: September 05, 2019, 06:42:46 AM by tranthidung
 #9

I don't have bad feelings about self-moderated ANN threads.
Sure it is not a good signal of one project, but I don't think ANN threads can harm anyone.
If you think a project is a scam one, let's make a scam accusation with proof. I don't see mandatory reasons to post in their ANN threads, just to show proof of their scams.
For self-moderated ANN threads, above topic title, you can see the line:
Quote
"This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (X posts by Y users deleted.)"
Paying attention on X, and Y figures, then you can have an overview on how serious they censor posts in their threads.

In some boards, like Goods, Currency exchange, I agree that self-moderated threads should not be allowed.

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September 05, 2019, 06:36:42 AM
 #10

Self moderated thread aren't that bad especially when your competitors try to create fud by spreading wrong information on your ANN. When competitors uses alts or paid users to attack other projects, here's when a self moderated thread comes in handy. As for scam projects taking advantage of the feature, we have the trust and flag system to warn forum members about the shady activities of any project. You don't have to keep posting on their thread.

A self moderated ANN thread also offers the OP an opportunity to keep the discussion on the thread professional, avoiding offtopic discussion and their likes. Personally I hate reading through an ANN then encountering offtopic unnecessary discussion.

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September 05, 2019, 08:20:35 AM
 #11

It would be great if ANN threads would not be self moderated if the cause you are referring to is scams. However we have two methods to combat this currently:
1. We are shown the number of deleted posts on that self modded thread as well as the total merits that those deleted posts recevied. Now it is not possible to call out a scammer and get merits on your post before they are deleted by the OP.
2. Create a "Scam Accusation" thread to explain why you think the person is scamming others and possibly add a newbie flag. Someone who got scammed might come up with enough evidence to construct a Type 3 Flag.

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September 05, 2019, 08:39:02 AM
 #12

I proposed earlier that Brand New and Newbie account should not be even allowed to create new Topics (they can still create posts),
BUT if that is to drastic for many people, then Newbies should NOT be allowed to create Self-moderated Topics
It is not fair and not what theymos aims at. There is no newbie jail, and newbies have rights to create their topics, includes self-moderated ones.
I mentioned about it in my above posts:
- Sell-moderated topics have: total posts deleted, and how many users have posts deleted.
- Scam accusation is a good tool.
- Trust & different kind of flags.
If there is something should be consider, I think of:
- An option (as same as PM option) that users can choose to see threads created by Newbies or not. Ignore newbie thread option. If a user choose that option, s/he does not see threads created by newbies, but if those newbies rank up, their threads will be automatically visible.

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September 05, 2019, 11:23:44 AM
 #13

abusing self-moderation to censor and/or cover their scammy/shady projects
This snippet above is the only problem I can see with self-moderated ANN threads, and I have no doubt whatsoever that some projects will do this.  On the other hand, if you've ever seen one of these ANN threads you'll realize that about 95% of the posts there should be deleted. 

The only question I have is whether the shitposts are being paid for by the project in order to bump the thread.  If that's the case, then there's no reason to have a self-moderated thread, because then you know damn well that the OP isn't going to delete anything except for posts he doesn't like.  I have a sneaking suspicion that most ANN thread starters love the bumping garbage posts.

From what I know LoyceV also have reported that they are making their ANN threads self-moderated because they also delete the post bumps being createdby them or bump services. I know a lot of newbies got nuked back then but I don't know if this kind of tactics still continues now. So really giving them a self-moderated topic as an option for their threads is a lot of advantage for them. The only problem here is removing the self-moderated threads would also affect projects who are always under the attack from members trying to damage their reputation.

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September 05, 2019, 11:31:58 AM
 #14

On the other hand, I've seen unmoderated threads that get full of garbage from trolls.
The truth is in the middle, somewhere. Maybe OP should have to ask permission from moderators to make his thread self-moderated and the permission can also be lost under some conditions. But I don't know if the forum software allows this and it would mean extra work for the mods.

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September 05, 2019, 11:33:56 AM
 #15

You just have to trust the OP in that matter, somehow, self moderated thread will also help the thread clean but on the negative side, it could be viewed as non transparent thread. IMO, I like ANN threads that are not self moderated but the penalty of spamming should be harsh like banning instantly if it's really intentional so these people will not abuse the thread.

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September 05, 2019, 11:38:40 AM
 #16

You just have to trust the OP in that matter, somehow, self moderated thread will also help the thread clean but on the negative side, it could be viewed as non transparent thread. IMO, I like ANN threads that are not self moderated but the penalty of spamming should be harsh like banning instantly if it's really intentional so these people will not abuse the thread.
It is hard to trust any new teams, new born projects in crypto. Time, only time can verify their trustworthy and capacity to build up good projects and good ecosystem. I don't see problems if my posts in ANN threads deleted by owners. It will be somewhat signals of likely not good projects. So, I think it is good because owners give me free signals to stay away from their projects and I would like to say thanks to them.



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September 05, 2019, 11:47:05 AM
 #17

From what I know LoyceV also have reported that they are making their ANN threads self-moderated because they also delete the post bumps being createdby them or bump services.
I haven't seen that "in the wild". It would be very obvious since theymos added a deleted-post-counter on top.

If I would create an ANN-thread, I would want it to be self-moderated to delete spam. One solution would be to only allow users with more than (say) 300 good reports to create self-moderated threads, but that goes against the forum's mission to be as free as possible.

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September 05, 2019, 11:55:40 AM
 #18

I do agree with using 300 good reports as pre-requisite to be able to create self-moderated thread.
I don't know at start, self-moderated threads born in the forum for which kind of original purposes, but in my opinion, there are only main purpose:
- To avoid spam, delete trashposts from spammers to keep high quality threads as clean as possible.
Unfortunately, over time, bad guys, includes scammers abuse self-moderated threads for their shady targets.
That suggestion makes sense because scammers usually don't spend time to report bad posts, especially 300, just to create self-moderated threads. They mostly create new account, buy Copper membership or buy hacked accounts (high ranks). 300 good reports looks good, but I don't think it will solve issues, because there are demands, there are market, and we might see a new market with 300+ good-report accounts



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September 05, 2019, 12:09:19 PM
 #19

I do agree with using 300 good reports as pre-requisite to be able to create self-moderated thread.
I don't know at start, self-moderated threads born in the forum for which kind of original purposes, but in my opinion, there are only main purpose:
- To avoid spam, delete trashposts from spammers to keep high quality threads as clean as possible.
Unfortunately, over time, bad guys, includes scammers abuse self-moderated threads for their shady targets.
That suggestion makes sense because scammers usually don't spend time to report bad posts, especially 300, just to create self-moderated threads. They mostly create new account, buy Copper membership or buy hacked accounts (high ranks). 300 good reports looks good, but I don't think it will solve issues, because there are demands, there are market, and we might see a new market with 300+ good-report accounts

Reported posts is not a good test, many people don't report threads at all. So that is not a good way IMO.
The other issue I see is a known good poster (lets call him DaveF) wants to launch his own coin. Let's call it DaveCoin.
I want to have 2 separate accounts. This one and the DaveCoinAdmin for launching and discussing that coin. It's a publicly known alt but is 100% new.
So, now I can't mod my own thread?

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September 05, 2019, 12:11:02 PM
 #20

I would disagree. I think they should be allowed to moderate their own threads as they see fit, even if that can lead to abuse, but if that happens people are within their rights to complain about it or start their own thread to discuss the abuse. Personally, I would much rather have coins moderate their own threads rather than rely on mods to do that for them. Self-moderating does come in handy when you're being attacked by trolls or spammers and sometimes people may not be breaking the forum rules by doing so so it's better not to rely on staff to clean up their problems (and they wouldn't get involved if it doesn't break the rules).

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