Is Buffet right or wrong?

[keithers]

RE: Is Buffet right or wrong?


 Buffett is a joke.


Caveat emptor

Buffet is far from a joke...have you seen the levels he has brought his Berkshire Hathaway Class A stocks to?   Pretty much unprecedented in the stock market...

[WillemStelen]

RE: Is Buffet right or wrong?


 Buffett is a joke.


Caveat emptor

pretty much a joke. things are getting even funnier with buffett

[AnonyMint]

pontiacg5, you've displayed your youthful ignorant idealism. All the governments of the world are into regulation. Doing a few high profile prosecutions on pools will be enough to scare the rest of them to enforce the regulations on you. Once there are 51% of the pools who are refusing blocks from pools which don't attach their signed regulated control number, then your movement to a unregulated pool means you earn precisely zero and your ASIC is a brick.

You don't seem to understand that the bankrupt masses are against you. They will support their governments' attempts to stop tax evasion and get control over the movement of money, because for one reason the government pays them.

More hogwash, CC transaction times are in the order of days, you just never see that.

What are you smoking?

I had a merchant account. Verification is a few seconds.

If you are referring to when the cash is transferred to the merchant account, that is irrelevant because from the customer's perspective it is instant because the merchant trusts the credit card company to fulfill the payment 95+% of the time.

Online transactions, that don't much care about a ten minute delay, are still worth a decent chunk of change.

Hell no. I hate that 10 minute delay. It slows me down a lot. I don't have 10 minutes to wait when I have several transactions to do, in fact where they were sequentially ordered and I couldn't do them in parallel.

And often it is more like 20 - 30 minutes.

They also benefit from other features of bitcoin.

What benefits for your average consumer? I see only disadvantages and no benefits.

A coin with no generation is worth nothing, surly you've heard of "pre-mine?" Quark tried quick generation, faster transactions (both pretty bad for a technical reason) and it sure seems to be floundering. Two step for transactions? Man, cmon...
http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/3718/what-are-multi-signature-transactions

Faster block periods doesn't require no generation of new coins.

Btw, Bitcoin's generation of new coins declines eventually to virtually 0.

All this time the other currencies are taking, you admit "quite a while" are loosing ground every day. If it takes too long, people are not going to want to change. To do so would undermine the entire trust in the whole thing, someone is holding the bag, either customers, merchants, or the most likely - everyone. Why would they want to do the whole shebang all over again?

You don't want your ASIC becoming a useless brick. I understand now the motivation for your myopia.

Not to say they can't co-exist together, which just adds a whole 'nother layer of complexity to the "feds is gonna get you!" theory.

Indeed altcoins offer more opportunities to experiment with what might be more stable against threats. Most will not succeed, but some or one might.

[pontiacg5]

pontiacg5, you've displayed your youthful ignorant idealism. All the governments of the world are into regulation. Doing a few high profile prosecutions on pools will be enough to scare the rest of them to enforce the regulations on you. Once there are 51% of the pools who are refusing blocks from pools which don't attach their signed regulated control number, then your movement to a unregulated pool means you earn precisely zero and your ASIC is a brick.

You don't seem to understand that the bankrupt masses are against you. They will support their governments' attempts to stop tax evasion and get control over the movement of money, because for one reason the government pays them.

Whatever, I don't think it will go down that way. There is no tax evasion, you still need to pay what is legally owed unless you want to argue the ethics of taxes next. You want to sell to a US vender that restocks ATMs or loads pre-paids, you pay taxes. But again, you think all the nations in the world are going to colaboriate together and agree on a "regulated control number?" What are YOU smoking???

More hogwash, CC transaction times are in the order of days, you just never see that.

What are you smoking?

I had a merchant account. Verification is a few seconds.

If you are referring to when the cash is transferred to the merchant account, that is irrelevant because from the customer's perspective it is instant because the merchant trusts the credit card company to fulfill the payment 95+% of the time.

Online transactions, that don't much care about a ten minute delay, are still worth a decent chunk of change.

Hell no. I hate that 10 minute delay. It slows me down a lot. I don't have 10 minutes to wait when I have several transactions to do, in fact where they were sequentially ordered and I couldn't do them in parallel.

And often it is more like 20 - 30 minutes.

Right, so waiting days for USD to electronically move from a merchant account to a bank account is much, much shorter than 10 or even 30 minutes.

If you are just a customer, what in the hell are you doing that takes thirty minutes to complete? I'm quite sure that's a daily task, too, right?

They also benefit from other features of bitcoin.

What benefits for your average consumer? I see only disadvantages and no benefits.

Advantages are opening up a lot larger marketplace, with less restrictions on both merchants and customers. Due diligence is not bitcoins problem, just as it is not the USD's problem, so don't go there.

Ebay is a good example, a steaming cesspool of what it once was, wrecked by overzealous customer protection and paypal fraud. Now it's a junk marketplace, for overpriced garbage or cheap Chinese junk the seller has a 200% markup on.

A coin with no generation is worth nothing, surly you've heard of "pre-mine?" Quark tried quick generation, faster transactions (both pretty bad for a technical reason) and it sure seems to be floundering. Two step for transactions? Man, cmon...
http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/3718/what-are-multi-signature-transactions

Faster block periods doesn't require no generation of new coins.

Btw, Bitcoin's generation of new coins declines eventually to virtually 0.

No duh, somewhere something 100+ years in the future. If anyone is still working them over that late in the game, you can bet the transaction volume alone would support the network. On the other hand, Quark, with it's super fast blocks and "no mining" since all the coins are gone in the first 6 months, is toast and ready to be wrecked by ~250 R9 290's. No support, no volume, and a very bleak future.

Faster blocks are no more secure than longer ones, and create plenty of problems on their own. Unless some super genius figures out zero latency connections for everyone in the world, people in disadvantaged areas with slow connections are at an even bigger disadvantage. Wasted work (stales) is a huge problem, and could easily lead to hard forks compared to bitcoin, either naturally from latency or by dubious methods (selfish mining, holding blocks) Course you knew that, right?  

All this time the other currencies are taking, you admit "quite a while" are loosing ground every day. If it takes too long, people are not going to want to change. To do so would undermine the entire trust in the whole thing, someone is holding the bag, either customers, merchants, or the most likely - everyone. Why would they want to do the whole shebang all over again?

You don't want your ASIC becoming a useless brick. I understand now the motivation for your myopia.

And yet again, you would be wrong. I own no asics at this point, save for some block eruptors. Of course I already said that, but you must be right though, being so old and all.

Not to say they can't co-exist together, which just adds a whole 'nother layer of complexity to the "feds is gonna get you!" theory.

Indeed altcoins offer more opportunities to experiment with what might be more stable against threats. Most will not succeed, but some or one might.

Alas, the hole in your argument. The government could not allow these alt coins to exist, not when anyone with a server can set up a BTC/alt exchange. All your coin control (assuming it ever exists in the first place) destroyed, just like that. Trace my bits, as they jump chains. Are they going to make trading illegal now? Then surly new alt coin generation would be illegal, and therefore mining a fork of the blockchain on accident would also be illegal. To keep people from moving BTC to new altcoins would absolutely destroy the whole process, may as well outright ban any new innovation in the area. Every single newbie you've seen with a AMD GPU in the last year is now suspect for money laundering. Please step this way sir, all your coye are belong to U.S.

Tin hats, everyone   

[toknormal]

All the governments of the world are into regulation. Doing a few high profile prosecutions on pools will be enough to scare the rest of them to enforce the regulations on you. Once there are 51% of the pools who are refusing blocks from pools which don't attach their signed regulated control number, then your movement to a unregulated pool means you earn precisely zero and your ASIC is a brick

Jeez. You are one little defeatist whiner aren't you.

The arguments you come up with are unbelievably fickle. You're making it all up as you go along. I don't know what agenda you're pursuing but it's about as consistent as an unguided missile.

Quote from: pontiacg5 on March 17, 2014, 11:41:07 PM
More hogwash, CC transaction times are in the order of days, you just never see that.

pontiacg5 was right - that point is hogwash. In fact all the nonsense about speed and convenience that you've been spamming on this thread is nonsense. No point in elaborating on it since you don't seem to have the first clue about how the banking clearing system, account transfers vs money transfers, POS and back office requirements or anything else of practical relevance to this discussion works.

Suffice to say that cryptocurrencies blockchain speed are of no significance to the performance of point of sale transactions - just as they aren't right now when doing trades on exchanges. All transactions are more or less instantaneous because accounts are used.

The point about regulation of pools is idle speculation and highly unrealistic. It's already an obsolete issue given that:

 - the technology is global and not under the juristiction of any one government
 - thr cryptocurrency technology has already surpassed the need to mine anyway
 - de-centralised mining would work just as well and generate the required supply, just at a lower self-adjusted difficulty level


All you're straw man arguments have been exhaustively dealt with by people that actually know something of what they're talking about.

[DeboraMeeks]

People on this forum will go against what he says most of the time.

[am]

Not sure if he was misquoted on this one. It's also strange in a way for him to comment when normally he refuses to do so on matters he doesn't understand.

[N1CKH0LAS]

It's obvious why he said that: He owns tons of Fiat money. Bitcoin is NOT fiat money. This is bad for him, thus he tries to spread rumors and fear against Bitcoin and a lot of people fall for it and spread these rumors over and over again. Simple as that ! DO NOT fall for this cheap propaganda/misinformation attempt.

[LiteCoinGuy]

wrong because he does not understand bitcoin (and nobody explained it to him)

[equinox9]

It's obvious why he said that: He owns tons of Fiat money. Bitcoin is NOT fiat money. This is bad for him, thus he tries to spread rumors and fear against Bitcoin and a lot of people fall for it and spread these rumors over and over again. Simple as that ! DO NOT fall for this cheap propaganda/misinformation attempt.

That doesn't make sense if you think about it.
Warren Buffet made enough last year to buy every single Bitcoin that has ever been mined. If he truly thought this what would stop him buying up some Bitcoin?

I think he is being honest with his interpretation. Whether that interpretation is correct is open to debate.

[equinox9]

Not sure if he was misquoted on this one. It's also strange in a way for him to comment when normally he refuses to do so on matters he doesn't understand.

The quote is accurate. You can see his interview here http://www.coindesk.com/warren-buffett-investors-stay-away-bitcoin/

He talks about Bitcoin for only 10 seconds of the interview.

[BitOnyx]

Lack of influence of monetary policies, government influences and decentralized supply.

It is not the same as fiat.

[toknormal]

Warren Buffet made enough last year to buy every single Bitcoin that has ever been mined. If he truly thought this what would stop him buying up some Bitcoin?

Except that "every single Bitcoin that has ever been mined" is not up for sale.

Only a tiny proprtion of the money supply is ever offered on an exchange order book.

Even if he did find some way to buy them all up - there's a name for that in economics, it's called demand. Such phenomenal demand for Bitcoin would translate into demand for cryptocurrencies in general if supply dried up.

In short, "buying up all the money supply of a particular coin" is not an option for someone who sees it as a threat.

[AnonyMint]

I will not be replying to pontiacg5 and toknormal again, because they repeat the same broken non-arguments again and again. I have more important things to do.

Come on guys, this silly arguing is wasting our time. You guys go with Bitcoin and I will go my own direction.

You two can have the last word. I will prefer the last action.

You guys are losing badly where it matters for me. I am receiving overwhelming support in my private messages. You two are making fools of yourselves for those who are smart enough to see. And those are precisely the people I wanted to reach. My teaching goal here is done or at least as far as I am willing to take it in this forum. My wish is for all the dumb people to stay in Bitcoin and the smart people to exit something better.

toknormal, I already explained upthread that offchain accounts lead to fractional reserves and failure. You are repeating the same nonsense. Proceed with your offchain Bitcoin plan so you can retain the status quo of fiat banking and commerce.

pontiacg5, the issue for miners is not just tax compliance, it is about forcing you to force tax compliance on all transactions you add to the block. It is all about coin taint. You can read up on this coin taint issue from the core developers such a gmaxell, mike hearn, etc..

What you fail to appreciate is history. I guess you didn't pay attention during world history or perhaps your dumbed down education there in Kansas doesn't teach you about the way socialism slides into totalitarianism over and over throughout history.

The salient point (and I'm confident it will fly over your head and you will reply something off point again) is that don't expect the government to act sane as it slides into the abyss. They will demand blood from a turnip.

All the nations will be bankrupted and under severe riots and stress by 2016ish. And the FATCA is coming this year which will compel all nations to comply with USA demands. And the dollar will become incredibly strong in 2015 as all the other currencies become very weak. Every nation will be eating from the USA's hand. The emerging markets are massively short the dollar. But you don't know any of this information because you don't study as deeply the details as I do.

Sorry that you can't understand that when I pay with a credit card, I am done and get my domain name or download product in seconds. With Bitcoin, I wait 20 - 30 minutes. When I need to do this several times per day, it makes me curse Bitcoin. And this has actually happened to me numerous times.

Bitcoin's new coinbase awards will be 1.7% in 2020, 0.8% in 2024 and 0.2% in 2032, that is not 100 years from now. I can see 6th grade math is not your strong suite.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply#Projected_Bitcoins_Long_Term

Your points about alt/BTC exchange entirely misses the point that without anonymity, altcoins will be subject to the same regulatory controls as Bitcoin. Period. No tinfoil hats required to do that simple analysis.

I must agree with you that the nonrefundable quality of Bitcoin can open new markets. It also closes off much larger markets. See also my reply to toknormal above. Note Bitcoin has multisig on chain, so if developers would simply use it, then Bitcoin could do refunds via escrowed third parties. At least it would be on the block chain, so no slide into fractional reserves failure.

[pontiacg5]

I will not be replying to pontiacg5 and toknormal again...

Thank the lord!

Oh, wait...

toknormal, I already explained....

pontiacg5, the issue for miners..

Well, that lasted a whole two lines of text, just like the last time you were going to finally fuck off.

Again, we are back to the mighty US government demanding anything on the internet, the same speculative bullshit you've been spewing forever. Somehow I guess that's different than my "broken arguments." Loosing badly, PM's? Whatever.

The world just lines up to do what the united states says. Especially now, after the world sees what we (US) do with control of the internet, or anything at all for that matter.

The salient point (and I am sure it will fly over your head and you will reply something off point again) is that don't expect the government to act sane as it slides into the abyss.

Bull FUCKING shit, you stupid bastard. What reason do you have to assume this will be the case? Unless EVERY FUCKING COUNTRY in the world empathetically agrees with the US, anything they attempt to do will FLOUNDER, as it does currently. Until that time, you are speculating just the same as I, except that your scenario DEMANDS impossible regulations, in both bitcoins and new currencies that may be exempt to new laws on technical points alone. How is a government going to regulate a new currency that DOESN'T EVEN EXIST YET, that possibly works in an inconceivably different way? How are bitcoins going to support the innovation in that area, if you can't move coins to an alt-chain without tainting them? Regulation on new currencies would kill them before they start, game over.

And that's just one massive hole in your "take over the world" theory. You contradict yourself, saying [your flavor of] regulation and new crypts will co-exist, it is not possible.

All the nations will be bankrupted and under severe riots and stress by 2016ish. And the FATCA is coming this year which will compel all nations to comply with USA demands. And the dollar will become incredibly strong in 2015 as all the other currencies become very weak. Every nation will be eating from the USA's hand. The emerging markets are massively short the dollar. But you don't know any of this information because you don't study as deeply the details as I do.

Tin hats, folks. Why the fuck are you here anyway, if you are so certain? Shouldn't you be digging bomb shelters, piling gold, and gathering MREs? Get the fuck outta here with your sensationalist bullshit, or at least post undeniable proof. You'll have to forgive me, but seeing your postings in the past doesn't exactly give me the utmost confidence in your "deep" research on who knows what. Can't even form a proper sentence on a regular basis, but calls the total financial seizure of the entire world by the USgovernment? Seems about right  

Bitcoin's new coinbase awards will be 1.7% in 2020, 0.8% in 2024 and 0.2% in 2032, that is not 100 years from now. I can see 6th grade math is not your strong suite.

Let me ask you a simple question, is 0.2% ZERO? No? Wow, so you mean coins will still be made? Exactly like I said, eh? According to the chart you linked to, coins will be generated till 2136. Is that not a solid 100 years? Or are you going to argue the fact that .00000001 is not a coin. I'd bet you will, because that's your style. If 6th grade math isn't my style, what does that say about you? Least I can read numbers posted in a table, RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY FACE.

Next, you'll probably say that's not enough coins to generate to sustain, like a typical know it all retard, completely missing the fact I already addressed that issue previously.

Stroke that ego buddy, it must be nice to be so old as to know everything in the world so perfectly.

[AnonyMint]

Sigh.

Faster block periods doesn't require no generation of new coins.

Btw, Bitcoin's generation of new coins declines eventually to virtually 0.

vir·tu·al·ly
ˈvərCHə(wə)lē/
adverb
adverb: virtually

    1.
    nearly; almost.

[pontiacg5]

Sigh.

Faster block periods doesn't require no generation of new coins.

Btw, Bitcoin's generation of new coins declines eventually to virtually 0.

vir·tu·al·ly
ˈvərCHə(wə)lē/
adverb
adverb: virtually

    1.
    nearly; almost.

Wrong again,

Bitcoin coin generation does not virtually reach zero, it does reach zero. Quite a difference, really, but I'd expect as much from you.

Hol-le-fucking shit, people are dumb.

I like how you totally dropped the transaction time issue, once met with the technical difficulties of such a thing. Don't want to argue that point any more, either?

[AnonyMint]

You need to take a class in formal logic.

No where did I make a statement excluding it reaching zero.

I said it eventually reaches virtually 0. That is logically consistent with (no exclusion of) it reaching 0 later.

I am a programmer and you are not. I have extremely accurate logic. Else I wouldn't have made the programs that I did. Period.

Now I said I want to stop this nonsense. Can we please?

[keithers]

I strongly feel that Buffet has some money invested into cryptocurrencies despite publicly speaking it down...

[pontiacg5]

You need to take a class in formal logic.

No where did I make a statement excluding it reaching zero.

I said it eventually reaches virtually 0. That is logically consistent with (no exclusion of) it reaching 0 later.

I am a programmer and you are not. I have extremely accurate logic. Else I wouldn't have made the programs that I did. Period.

Now I said I want to stop this nonsense. Can we please?

As a programmer I'd think you would need to be deliberate and concise with things you do and "say" for lack of a better word? Guess not, huh?

I can stop at any time, you appear to be the one lacking in that regard. Again contradicting yourself in the same post. If you want out, walk away. Don't say stop, throw a few more stones and cry when I throw them right back.

What in the hell does the thread linked to have to do with anything. All I see is you stating more assumptions as fact, things you can't possibly know, then forming your super duper programmer logic on top of a pile of mud. In other words, the same thing you've done here! Bullshit speculation, clouded by an ego so large it couldn't fit inside a superdome.

ROTFL, asks a few questions and is smart enough to start assigning IQ's to people. You are a certain kind of special