FortuneJack has a problem in Dice game

[dicetest]

Edit 5: Final update

The issue was recognized by the Fortunejack yesterday. Today around 11:45 UTC a new update was pushed
Hence the off-by-one error resolved.
Screenshot of the confirmation: https://imgur.com/a/mgH5Pzo
I checked the roll numbers and everything looks perfect.

I was also given a bug bounty when i asked for it.
So i guess the case is closed. I will still keep it open for any further discussions and questions



So i was checking out the payout numbers in the Dice game of FortuneJack. I spotted something wrong

Normally in a dice rolls you have numbers between 0 to 99.99 resulting in a total of 10000 numbers.
But Fortunejack seems to be invalidating roll 00.00 making it only 9999 numbers. Even the FAQ section of their dice says "The roll numbers between 0 and 99.99 ..."

So i am going to take example of Primedice here

For a 2x payout

In primedice, we have Roll under 49.50 (0 to 49.49 giving 4950 numbers) and Roll over 50.49 (50.50 to 99.99 giving 4950 numbers)
In fortunejack, we have Roll under 49.50 (00.01 to 49.49 giving 4949 number) and Roll over 50.50 (50.51 to 99.99 giving 4949 numbers)

For a 990x payout

In primedice, we have Roll under 0.10 (0 to 0.09 giving 10 numbers) and Roll over 99.89 (99.90 to 99.99 giving 10 numbers)
In fortunejack, we have Roll under 0.10 (00.01 to 0.09 giving 9 numbers) and Roll over 99.90 (99.91 to 99.99 giving 9 numbers)

Fortunejack calls it 0.1% win chance but technically it's 0.09%


FortuneJack

If you bet 10 satoshi 9999 times (0 is not counted) at 990x payout on FJ, you are to lose 9990 times and win 9 times.
Total bet amount = 10 * 9999 = 99990 satoshi
Total Win amount = 9 * 9900 = 89100 satoshi
Total lose amount = 99990 - 89100 = 10890 satoshi

Total fee = 10890/99990 = 10.89 %

PrimeDice

If you bet 10 satoshi 10000 times at 990x payout on PD, you are to lose 9990 times and win 10 times
Total bet amount = 10 * 10000 = 100000 satoshi
Total win amount = 10 * 9900 = 99000 satoshi
Total lose amount = 100000 - 99000 = 1000 satoshi

Total fee = 1000/100000 = 1 %


I even asked FortuneJack about this issue this was their reply : https://imgur.com/a/W9Qwz9I


Edit : For a 10x payout the fee goes to 1.09% while they promise a house edge of 1%


Edit2 : It looks like they have had this problem since they started : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slh4k8yM11o


Edit3: This is a 4 years old video on youtube which concerns this issue : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwtLPWjVxYI
The guy is using 6x payout for Roll over 83.50 But it should actually be 83.49


Edit4: Update

It looks like their support guy wasn't looking very hard. Here are they apologizing about miscommunication : https://imgur.com/a/NAqLzrr
So 0 is counted. Of course i didn't just believe it but verified myself by running a script in the All bets page.

Now that we have 10000 possible numbers instead of 9999, We got a different problem
Fortunejack dice gives different Win chance for Roll under and Roll over.

For a 2x payout
In fortunejack, we have Roll under 49.50 (00.00 to 49.49 giving 4950 number) and Roll over 50.50 (50.51 to 99.99 giving 4949 numbers)

For a 990x payout
In fortunejack, we have Roll under 0.10 (00.00 to 0.09 giving 10 numbers) and Roll over 99.90 (99.91 to 99.99 giving 9 numbers)

So if i were to bet on FJ Dice, i would have a correct winning chance for Roll under but incorrect winning chance if i decided to go with Roll over
Not to mention the outrageous fee of up to 10.891% for Roll over

Here i am mentioning the concern : https://imgur.com/a/7xaFPtS
The issue is now under Investigation : https://imgur.com/a/rllgfZq

What boggles me is nobody care to notice this issue. FJ benefited from it for all these years and the users were mislead by an incorrect information.

[veleten]

Fortunejack has more problems than that , don't think too many players are using their dice anyways
the problem is with their wagering requirements on your deposit , you have to wager three times over to be able to withdraw and dice games are not counted towards the wagered
so if I were to play dice only I would simply not be able to withdraw

I can't confirm it since I don't play there anymore  , but this is an interesting find
effectively giving fortunejack extra  edge and misinforming players for years

[dicetest]

if I were to play dice only I would simply not be able to withdraw

Is it true @FortuneJack ?

effectively giving fortunejack extra  edge and misinforming players for years

It is indeed. The edge goes as high as 10.891% from their highest multiplier 990x

[efialtis]

Fortunejack has more problems than that , don't think too many players are using their dice anyways
the problem is with their wagering requirements on your deposit , you have to wager three times over to be able to withdraw and dice games are not counted towards the wagered
so if I were to play dice only I would simply not be able to withdraw

I can't confirm it since I don't play there anymore  , but this is an interesting find
effectively giving fortunejack extra  edge and misinforming players for years

I guess they arent forcing anyone to take advantage of their welcome deposit bonus, are they? ... Actually, people have "problems" regarding their welcome bonuses in online casinos all the time due to wagering requirements etc. --> people should not claim any bonuses if they want to be able to withdraw without having to worry.

[dicetest]

Fortunejack has more problems than that , don't think too many players are using their dice anyways
the problem is with their wagering requirements on your deposit , you have to wager three times over to be able to withdraw and dice games are not counted towards the wagered
so if I were to play dice only I would simply not be able to withdraw

I can't confirm it since I don't play there anymore  , but this is an interesting find
effectively giving fortunejack extra  edge and misinforming players for years

I guess they arent forcing anyone to take advantage of their welcome deposit bonus, are they? ... Actually, people have "problems" regarding their welcome bonuses in online casinos all the time due to wagering requirements etc. --> people should not claim any bonuses if they want to be able to withdraw without having to worry.

What if the user simply wanted to play dice by depositing funds and not claiming any bonus ? They should be allowed to withdraw

[wwzsocki]

...If you bet 10 satoshi 9999 times (0 is not counted) on FJ, you are to lose 9990 times and win 9 times...

I was never good in math, please explain why on FJ when I bet 9999 times you assume that I will only win 9 times and lose the rest (9990)   (is this just an example?)

Tried to understand but it seems to be wrong because when I have played on FJ the win rate seemed to hire, but TBH I never measured this properly, so don't know for sure.

From my experience only in 100 spins, I had 10 or even more wins, so how this correlates to this example above? I don't say is wrong only ask for explanation to understand it correctly, please.

...Total fee = 10890/99990 = 10.89 %...

PrimeDice

...Total fee = 1000/100000 = 1 %...

Same with the fee, why such a huge difference? Is this example correct? Anybody checked it?

OP don't get me wrong I don't say this is not correct but kindly ask for more explanation if possible.

[efialtis]

...they arent forcing anyone to take advantage of their welcome deposit bonus, are they?...

Of course, nobody is forced to take the bonus and should know that there is nothing for free, especially when it comes to free money or bonuses.
Deposit bonuses and other promotions are tolls to attract people and turn them into depositing players and not to give away free money.

The main goal for any casino or dice is that the majority of deposited cash stays on the platform and to achieve this, strict bonus requirements and other rules were introduced.
One should never take any bonuses, especially without knowing the wagering requirements and other terms of promotion.

TBH I don't see any good bonuses today. In 2007 until 2010 there were 250$ no deposit bonuses everywhere, especially in Poker but casinos offered 100$ no deposit bonuses with no problem with minimal requirements. Don'tmention deposit bonuses which were insane sometimes 500% to 5000$!!! With time passing, I have seen smaller and smaller bonuses with harder requirements. Finally, we have 2019 and there are almost no No Deposit bonuses, lately, I have seen a couple of 10 or 20$ max with insane requirements.

... and it totally makes sense mate, doesnt it? Who in the world would give away free money just like that, no strings attached? Nobody and here we are talking about casinos - they are the last to do so. 

[panjul07]

Fortunejack has more problems than that , don't think too many players are using their dice anyways
the problem is with their wagering requirements on your deposit , you have to wager three times over to be able to withdraw and dice games are not counted towards the wagered
so if I were to play dice only I would simply not be able to withdraw

I can't confirm it since I don't play there anymore  , but this is an interesting find
effectively giving fortunejack extra  edge and misinforming players for years

I guess they arent forcing anyone to take advantage of their welcome deposit bonus, are they? ... Actually, people have "problems" regarding their welcome bonuses in online casinos all the time due to wagering requirements etc. --> people should not claim any bonuses if they want to be able to withdraw without having to worry.

Veleten is not even talking about welcome bonus. He is talking about any deposits made at Fortunejack needs to be wagered 2x (IIRC) on the casino games (slots) or needs to be wagered 50% on the sportsbook. I have no ideas if someone playing dice game only at Fortunejack will be able to withdraw their money as I don't find any terms about how much to wager on other games.

[dicetest]

...If you bet 10 satoshi 9999 times (0 is not counted) on FJ, you are to lose 9990 times and win 9 times...

I was never good in math, please explain why on FJ when I bet 9999 times you assume that I will only win 9 times and lose the rest (9990)   (is this just an example?)

Tried to understand but it seems to be wrong because when I have played on FJ the win rate seemed to hire, but TBH I never measured this properly, so don't know for sure.

From my experience only in 100 spins, I had 10 or even more wins, so how this correlates to this example above? I don't say is wrong only ask for explanation to understand it correctly, please.

The example shown is according to 990x payout. Main post has been updated to reflect this change but the calculation is correct
I simply assumed people would know that it's 990x payout since i mentioned that before

Same with the fee, why such a huge difference? Is this example correct? Anybody checked it?

OP don't get me wrong I don't say this is not correct but kindly ask for more explanation if possible.

The fee is correct. The higher your payout is the higher the fee you pay
For a 2x payout which most people do, it's 1.01%, for 10x it's 1.09% and the highest it can go is 10.891% for 990x

[wwzsocki]

I guess they arent forcing anyone to take advantage of their welcome deposit bonus, are they? ...

Of course, nobody is forced to take the bonus on Fortune Jack and should know that there is nothing for free, especially when it comes to free money or bonuses.
Deposit bonuses and other promotions are tolls to attract people and turn them into depositing players and not to give away free money as it looks like.
The deposit bonus is like "We Welcome You - We Got You!" type of deal.

The main goal for any casino or dice is that the majority of deposited cash stays on the platform and to achieve this, strict bonus requirements and other rules were introduced.
One should never take any bonuses, especially without knowing the wagering requirements and other terms of promotion.

TBH I don't see any good bonuses today. In 2007 until 2010 there were 250$ no deposit bonuses everywhere, especially in Poker but casinos offered 100$ - 150$ no deposit bonuses also, with no problem and with minimal requirements. Don't mention deposit bonuses, which were insane because sometimes offered 500% to 5000$!!! With time passing, I have seen smaller and smaller bonuses with strict requirements. Finally, we have 2019 and there are almost no No Deposit bonuses, lately, I have seen a couple of 10 or 20$ offers with insane requirements. I remember was able to play months for free in casinos or poker using no deposit bonuses. To finish the story I will only add that I never won big, let's say something like a jackpot

[RHavar]

I tried to play at FortuneJack to verify it, but trying to login gives an account suspended error. (lol?)


Anyway, it looks like an off-by-one error. Pretty sure this is the same bug that crypto-games had for a while, except they did it the other way (an extra possibility to win, so it was a negative house edge on high mults).

Not really sure how this happens to be honest. The maths is pretty insanely simple, something you'd expect most high-school students would figure out. I guess though when the error is in your favour, it's easier to overlook. 

[dicetest]

I guess though when the error is in your favour, it's easier to overlook. 

Not sure how you did your maths but the off-by-one error concerned here benefits the House and not the player




New update. Please check the main post

[leea-1334]

Do not be surprised. A lot of casinos even say Provably Fair when there is nothing you can do to check the fairness of their games.

A lot of people here do not even understand how the house edge works,,, which is why I only stick to a few games I trust when it comes to dice.

Now you make me curious though. Maybe it is that 0 is hard to see, especially I have never seen 0 in all the dice games I play but I play at 6 digit dice with 1 million possibilities so I will pay attention now!

[dicetest]

Do not be surprised. A lot of casinos even say Provably Fair when there is nothing you can do to check the fairness of their games.

A lot of people here do not even understand how the house edge works,,, which is why I only stick to a few games I trust when it comes to dice.

Now you make me curious though. Maybe it is that 0 is hard to see, especially I have never seen 0 in all the dice games I play but I play at 6 digit dice with 1 million possibilities so I will pay attention now!

Getting a specific number is hard if you look for it. In FJ it's 1 in 10000
But scripts make the work easier. Being a programmer has it's advantage

[RHavar]

I guess though when the error is in your favour, it's easier to overlook.  

Not sure how you did your maths but the off-by-one error concerned here benefits the House and not the player

Yeah, that's my point. They've likely overlooked the error for so long, since it benefits them. (Losing money is always a lot more obvious)  

[ralle14]

Veleten is not even talking about welcome bonus. He is talking about any deposits made at Fortunejack needs to be wagered 2x (IIRC) on the casino games (slots) or needs to be wagered 50% on the sportsbook. I have no ideas if someone playing dice game only at Fortunejack will be able to withdraw their money as I don't find any terms about how much to wager on other games.

Their dice seem to be included on the casino games as well because i've wagered exactly 2x of my deposit and received my withdrawal. Plinko, mines and hi-lo probably have the same rollover requirements too since dice is also listed under their provably fair games. Also the wagering requirement is reduced to 1 if you're deposit is at least BTC0.3.

What if the user simply wanted to play dice by depositing funds and not claiming any bonus ? They should be allowed to withdraw

They are allowed, it's just that their terms and conditions on wagering requirements isn't clear.

[efialtis]

Fortunejack has more problems than that , don't think too many players are using their dice anyways
the problem is with their wagering requirements on your deposit , you have to wager three times over to be able to withdraw and dice games are not counted towards the wagered
so if I were to play dice only I would simply not be able to withdraw

I can't confirm it since I don't play there anymore  , but this is an interesting find
effectively giving fortunejack extra  edge and misinforming players for years

I guess they arent forcing anyone to take advantage of their welcome deposit bonus, are they? ... Actually, people have "problems" regarding their welcome bonuses in online casinos all the time due to wagering requirements etc. --> people should not claim any bonuses if they want to be able to withdraw without having to worry.

What if the user simply wanted to play dice by depositing funds and not claiming any bonus ? They should be allowed to withdraw

Excuce me mate, my bad - I thought you were talking about the welcome bonus. Forget what I wrote, was late here. I agree this doesnt look too good then...

[dicetest]

The error is resolved. Please check the main post for the update

[leea-1334]

Well done to OP for finding and fixing this dice problem. Indeed as reflected just finding 1 number would be very hard for anyone doing it manually,,, and this is why we appreciate all the programmers and developers of the forum and their public service. I suppose we should also credit FJ for fixing this!

[Stunna]

It's pretty nuts that nobody noticed this even though it was a persistent issue for years. I'm curious to see how much extra Fortunejack made from this and what they will do to reimburse the effected players. Given that this issue dates back years it will be extremely difficult to even figure out who was effected and to what degree, but given this level of error they should really spend some time to get this right.