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Author Topic: Effect of signature bans  (Read 774 times)
stompix
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September 24, 2019, 01:42:26 PM
Merited by lovesmayfamilis (1)
 #21

Statistics don't lie, but they may mislead our simple monkey brains.
What if - hear me out on this - users posted less, yes, but as a result of the signature ban, they started posting more cautiously and in turn started posting higher-quality posts?

If we have a word + character count that might bring us some more insight into their posting habits.

Why not merits? Pretty simple to check how much they've earned lately, shasan has still earned 7 in the last 120 days while Acura3600  0.
Of course, the AIs probably have that stats already.  Grin

As for the quality, I would assume it would be wore, they don't need to make qualifying posts, they are in no rush to have their posts reviewed by a campaign manager, free to troll, I doubt the ban motivated them to make remarkable posts. But of course, I could be wrong, and that would be great.

This user @lovesmayfamilis irrespective of the signature ban is still very active in the scam accusation board bursting scam projects every now and then. He's still dedicating his time for the forum although his post has reduce a little bit he's still posting some high numbers of posts 100+

At least he has a real excuse, the number of ICO scams in the altcoin section has dropped a lot and the scammers don't even try it to defend their projects anymore, lots of shills are gone also, so probably he's running low on material.   Wink


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September 24, 2019, 02:06:55 PM
 #22

Statistics don't lie, but they may mislead our simple monkey brains.
What if - hear me out on this - users posted less, yes, but as a result of the signature ban, they started posting more cautiously and in turn started posting higher-quality posts?

If we have a word + character count that might bring us some more insight into their posting habits.
Why not merits? Pretty simple to check how much they've earned lately, shasan has still earned 7 in the last 120 days while Acura3600  0.
Of course, the AIs probably have that stats already.  Grin

As for the quality, I would assume it would be wore, they don't need to make qualifying posts, they are in no rush to have their posts reviewed by a campaign manager, free to troll, I doubt the ban motivated them to make remarkable posts. But of course, I could be wrong, and that would be great.
Certainly, one would be a fool to assume that the post quality will always increase apropos to the aftermath of a plagiarism ban. This may be different in the case of insubstantial post quality bans but the main point I want to address is that of the limited fields in the statistical analysis.

It's always great to see statistics and to make our own predictions thereof but we should always bear in mind that the confidence of our hypotheses is significantly dependent on the amount of information that we have.

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September 24, 2019, 04:12:43 PM
 #23

OMG, years ago, Loyce joined campaign (the first one) as a Full Member, and now you have been a real Legendary of the forum. There are thousands of Legendary members, but you are different. Smiley

By the way, the OP is lack of figures on earned merits as well as earned-merits per posts before ban days and after unban days. I would like to make a request, if you have time, please give me your hands. It is interesting to have figures for before and after period, that will support the assumption of posting style changes due to signature bans for months or years (quantity - via postcount, and quality - partially via earned merits).




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September 24, 2019, 04:16:42 PM
 #24

I don't really have any special takeaways from the data above, think it's not shocking to see people who are sig banned to disappear completely and stop posting. It's not going to be shocking again when their bans come to an end and they get back to their usual posting habits aka being extremely active. It is what it is.

I think signature bans are working as intended: giving some users a deserved second chance - ChiBitCTy, redsn0w, WhiteManWhite, perhaps Branko, lovesmayfamilis, and zazarb can also be included in this category since a slow down of ~50% doesn't seem unusual - while at the same time being almost equivalent to a permaban for others.



I'm not member of a signature campaign from (honestly I don't remember exactly) 2-3 years or maybe more, so my activity here is not related to my signature ban. Just pointing it out, nothing else.

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September 24, 2019, 07:39:04 PM
 #25

I don't really have any special takeaways from the data above, think it's not shocking to see people who are sig banned to disappear completely and stop posting. It's not going to be shocking again when their bans come to an end and they get back to their usual posting habits aka being extremely active. [1] It is what it is.

By the way, why is creeps signature ban that long? It says "Banned from displaying signatures until August 02, 2029". That can't be right, i mean what did he do to earn himself 10 years...had tea with someone's wife?


edit: [1] I'd like to clarify, i specifically had the -100% people in mind.

...had tea with someone's wife? LoL funny you!
sincerely, creeps ban is somehow scary, what would he have done to deserve a whole 10 years?, so many people especially creeps wouldn't even bother to wait and resume back to that very identity again. was there no warning then?, and i think bans induces pressure on people when they come back after been unbanned, usually pressure to plagiarize.

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September 24, 2019, 09:01:04 PM
Merited by LoyceV (2), PrimeNumber7 (1)
 #26

The numbers don't lie, but I'm not sure they're telling the whole story either.  I haven't been keeping track thoroughly, but if someone were to scrutinize my posting history for the same time period it might look similar to those users in suchmoon's table.  I was participating in the bitblender campaign up until it ended, but I was contemplating stepping down right before that.  Due to lack of help at work I had to take on extra work load, and home improvement projects that I started were preventing me from spending as much time on the forum as I had in previous months.  It's only in recent weeks that I think I've become a bit more active, now that some of my projects are complete and my work load is back to normal levels.

The spike in bans and sig-bans also coincided with the northern hemisphere's summer months.  A lot of folks take vacations, or have children home from school and are spending more family or doing things outdoors.  I made time to go fishing and mountain biking with my son a few times, and took a couple of road trips with the kids and one with a friend.

Again, it might be as simple as it looks for some, and for other's it might only be part of the picture.  

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September 25, 2019, 12:46:54 AM
 #27

By the way, why is creeps signature ban that long? It says "Banned from displaying signatures until August 02, 2029". That can't be right, i mean what did he do to earn himself 10 years...had tea with someone's wife?

No idea why, but that's what it says on the user profile. There is no appeal thread as far as I can see.

If the temp ban was 60 days he should be back in a couple of weeks so you'll be able to ask him Smiley
After creeps has been banned, he also didn't become active on our local group on TELEGRAM, we tried to ask him but seems he left all of his account after that, he didn't even tried to appeal, but AFAIK, it was for the plagiarized post of his from years ago that made him banned.



The effects is more likely a common thing, for we all know many of us here has just some interest on the forum because it pays off, only few can post for whatever the thing is. So if they've received a Sig Ban that stop them from earning they will lost interest,...

I was once like that before, posting just to be paid but now even if I'm on a campaign I do less activity just like the times I'm not on a campaign. I don't even know the reason why, but ever since I climbed up to this rank I haven't gone with 50 activities on a week, except there is a certain topic that I really want to participate just like now on our Coins.ph thread.

So if the admin will ban all the Sigs here on the forum, expect that the active users will half from the way it is now. Some boards will not be lively as it is now and thats for sure.




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September 25, 2019, 02:31:45 AM
 #28

After creeps has been banned, he also didn't become active on our local group on TELEGRAM, we tried to ask him but seems he left all of his account after that, he didn't even tried to appeal, but AFAIK, it was for the plagiarized post of his from years ago that made him banned. ~

Full Member creeps has at least three banned alt profiles.


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September 25, 2019, 06:08:34 AM
 #29

I don't really have any special takeaways from the data above, think it's not shocking to see people who are sig banned to disappear completely and stop posting. It's not going to be shocking again when their bans come to an end and they get back to their usual posting habits aka being extremely active. [1] It is what it is.
maybe sig bans should include a 'x number of posts without a spam / plagiarism infraction' required in addition to the 6 month time period (or w.e it is) to lift the ban. would provide a bit more deterrent to spam / plagiarism, and prevent users from going straight to spamming after the time is up.

there's nothing here. message me if you want to put something here.
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September 25, 2019, 10:47:57 AM
 #30

Again, it might be as simple as it looks for some, and for other's it might only be part of the picture.  

I'd expect a more random picture then. Some users would post more, some less. Granted the sample is small, besides some users in that list may still be temp-banned.

It's not an indictment by any means. I'm certainly happy that the sig ban allowed some users to stay here even if some others may not deserve it.

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September 25, 2019, 03:19:54 PM
 #31

maybe sig bans should include a 'x number of posts without a spam / plagiarism infraction' required in addition to the 6 month time period (or w.e it is) to lift the ban. would provide a bit more deterrent to spam / plagiarism, and prevent users from going straight to spamming after the time is up.
That's a pretty good idea. Something along the lines of no more than 1 report per 30-50 posts seems appropriate, for 200(?) posts or 40 merit, whichever comes first.

It's difficult to create that many posts without getting reported for a spam post if you are, and if the user in question is able to make high-quality posts then that might also show their worth to the forum (the reason they were provisionally unbanned in the first place)

Arbitrary numbers of course and there are going to be other stipulations (to prevent merit abuse to circumvent the ban).

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September 25, 2019, 07:18:54 PM
 #32

Weeks before his ban day, he joined the BitBlender campaign (I am one of that campaign's participants too), that has max post cap per week is 60. This is one of factor should be considered. In that campaign, shasan likely made max post cap per month at 240 posts, and 100 extra posts made likely to hunt for merits and rank up.  Smiley
This is an interesting example. To be a smart campaigner, and ensure quotas people tend to at least post 2-3 extras in case they get a few deleted. On top of that if you are running a lending thread or some other money making business on this forum you can be expected to have additional posts, that generally won't count towards payment in a campaign. The interesting thing here is that none of the current posts have anything to do with not earning.

Quote
Anyway, the ban period of signature for one or two year is too long, and it mostly drains out motivation to post to rank up or whatever reasons.
Then where did they get the motivation from in the first place, someone said you can make money once you can wear a signature? The only thing that really should come out of this is a maybe feeling a bit of shame or embarrassment, I'm sure we've all been there after getting caught doing something stupid. ( or numerous now that I think about it)
It truly shows how shitty the issue was to see how some have changed in their involvement, not entirely unexpected but shitty non the less. These signature bans are honestly as lenient as you can be with people and if it's still a problem, I'm not going to miss anyone whining about it. You still have every other freedom on this forum, you just F'd up the gift of monetizing your posts.

The spike in bans and sig-bans also coincided with the northern hemisphere's summer months.  A lot of folks take vacations, or have children home from school and are spending more family or doing things outdoors.  I made time to go fishing and mountain biking with my son a few times, and took a couple of road trips with the kids and one with a friend.
Again, it might be as simple as it looks for some, and for other's it might only be part of the picture.  
Agreed. Personally my posting habits dropped off quite a bit lately. It didn't have to do with summer was more of a personal thing, at times I feel I get inside my own head. However everything else I do irregardless how I feel the wayside for the summer as usual. I had renos on the go, kids home all the time and just busy. Not to mention I'm most active here when I'm on the clock and I took a few weeks off work. I found myself reading more from the phone rather than taking the time to boot the PC and engage. My above reply though highlights at least one instance that helps sway my opinion.

The bright side, you do see the users that truly just want to be here and engage. redsn0w and ChiBitCTy   I'm not really familiar with some of the others. Not sure if zazarb  really posted outside of lending much anyways. This makes it worth it imo to continue to practice leniency.


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September 26, 2019, 06:00:13 AM
 #33

Then where did they get the motivation from in the first place, someone said you can make money once you can wear a signature? The only thing that really should come out of this is a maybe feeling a bit of shame or embarrassment, I'm sure we've all been there after getting caught doing something stupid. ( or numerous now that I think about it)
It is very normal and understandable if users join here from invitation of others that they can earn money here from campaigns, bounties. I think such cases are very popular for ones who joined the forum in 2017 or very early of 2018, before the new era of the forum: with merit system.
It is nothing ugly if someone, after months of participation, changed their approaches, adapted to changes (partially triggered by merit system); and became better users, better components of the forum.
Why do we have Newbie rank here? How many newbies actually read rules and understand them at early days here? I doubt that there are very little.
Quote
It truly shows how shitty the issue was to see how some have changed in their involvement, not entirely unexpected but shitty non the less. These signature bans are honestly as lenient as you can be with people and if it's still a problem, I'm not going to miss anyone whining about it. You still have every other freedom on this forum, you just F'd up the gift of monetizing your posts.
Time goes, and when they realize that wearing signature is a privilege, not rights, and change how they make posts and make contributions; I think that they deserve recognition from others from what they have done so far.
The truth is if one only or mainly care about financial incentives, they will not spend too much time for their posts, and their post quality will be around or below average.

I think there are three periods of posters who change from shit posters to good ones:
- Newbie - Junior Member: make sparsely acceptable posts, and likely have quality around shitposters and above shitposters.
- Member - Full Member: make more regularly acceptable and average-quality posts.
- Senior Member to Hero Member: Post quality takes off, and their posts mostly above average quality
- Hero Member to Legendary: only or mostly make high quality posts, the rest ones mostly are above average quality.




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September 26, 2019, 02:03:03 PM
 #34

~snip~
It is very normal and understandable if users join here from invitation of others that they can earn money here from campaigns, bounties. I think such cases are very popular for ones who joined the forum in 2017 or very early of 2018, before the new era of the forum: with merit system.
It is nothing ugly if someone, after months of participation, changed their approaches, adapted to changes (partially triggered by merit system); and became better users, better components of the forum.
Why do we have Newbie rank here? How many newbies actually read rules and understand them at early days here? I doubt that there are very little.
Your tossing a wide vague net here and mixing in a lot of factors that have no bearing. I pointed to an example where the only continued presence appears to be financially motivated. This has nothing to do with bettering ones self, or growing as a member. We're talking about what effect these Sig Bans have had on users and their posting habits. Again this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the rules; or how well they can potentially post. It's about no longer having anything to contribute in regards to discussion anymore, once there was no financial motivation.
Quote
Time goes, and when they realize that wearing signature is a privilege, not rights, and change how they make posts and make contributions; I think that they deserve recognition from others from what they have done so far.
The truth is if one only or mainly care about financial incentives, they will not spend too much time for their posts, and their post quality will be around or below average.
I think there are three periods of posters who change from shit posters to good ones:
- Newbie - Junior Member: make sparsely acceptable posts, and likely have quality around shitposters and above shitposters.
- Member - Full Member: make more regularly acceptable and average-quality posts.
- Senior Member to Hero Member: Post quality takes off, and their posts mostly above average quality
- Hero Member to Legendary: only or mostly make high quality posts, the rest ones mostly are above average quality.
Imagine growing up in a world where you don't realize it's a privilege to type a few characters on a forum, with no need for reputation or expertise and get paid for it. I would argue that not everyone was striving for improvement for the sake of betterment, more like that next pay bump that only comes with a rank increase. 
That's sort of what you would expect from any ranking system, experience usually brings a more polished approach. Though it still means little unless you can verify the account holder is still the same so I try to ignore rank in most cases. It also didn't really play into receiving a lenient sentence apart from the higher the rank presumably having more time to make a positive contribution to the forum.

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September 26, 2019, 02:35:13 PM
 #35

Again this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the rules; or how well they can potentially post. It's about no longer having anything to contribute in regards to discussion anymore, once there was no financial motivation.
If the only reason for someone to post in a thread is because they will get paid for it, then no matter what, it's a disingenuous meandering around the forum and if they have no stake in the discussion, then why do you want this user on the forum?

It essentially boils down to this: do you want to pay someone to for fake discussions on a regular basis, high post quality notwithstanding?
Even if they have the ability to create high-quality posts, once it becomes difficult because a topic is outside of their field of knowledge or because they're running out of time in the campaign cycle, you will see lower-quality posts. There is no way to force a genuine reply: there's not enough to talk about... and then you do the constant regurgitatory replies to pad it out and make it seem like you're writing a lot, when in reality, all of it could be crunched down to one sentence or even a few words.

In fact, if you want an example of this, consider this and the following sentences which merely rephrase what I have already written. The padding of posts constantly hinges on transitioning between the poster's various main points—however general they may be—with marginal insights every time they loop around. Especially when it comes to a topic in the Economics or Trading Discussion boards, you'll see users constantly talk about unpredictability and the price of bitcoin over the years. It's repetitive, and we've already seen it countless times. When a topic reaches post #50 or higher, most of what needs to be said will have been said, but unfortunately campaigners need those pennies and they're going to look back at one of the most recent couple posts... then, they'll quote it and either agree or disagree, making a very marginal point and trying to garner a reply so that they have a thread to return to. It's quite simple, really. Any quote and inquiry is merely an attempt to continue the discussion and thereby continue their signature payments.

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September 26, 2019, 03:41:25 PM
 #36

This user is an interesting case;

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2595576

Surely a user who goes from posting well over 300 posts per week, to less than 40 is not qualified to be a default trust member?

As it stands, he is only trusted by two DT1 users (Nutildah) and (pandukelana2712): http://loyce.club/trust/2019-09-21_Sat_06.17h/1883627.html

I believe DT1 and DT2 users should add Shasan to their distrust list. Shasan clearly does not care about the betterment of bitcointalk and so shouldn't have any degree of influence here.
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September 26, 2019, 03:44:32 PM
 #37

As it stands, he is only trusted by a single default trust user (Nutildah): http://loyce.club/trust/2019-01-25_Fri_22.33h/1883627.html
That data is 8 months old, please use the most recent version:
Quote
Trust list for: shasan (Trust: +9 / =1 / -0) (332 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP) (created 2019-09-21_Sat_06.17h)
Back to index

shasan Trusts:
-

shasan Distrusts:
-

shasan is Trusted by:
1. nutildah (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (11) 1299 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
2. BitMaxz (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (244 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
3. eldrin (Trust: +0 / =0 / -1) (38 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
4. sheenshane (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (355 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
5. pandukelana2712 (Trust: +3 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (2) 823 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
6. cabalism13 (Trust: +2 / =1 / -0) (524 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

~shasan is Distrusted by:
1. suchmoon (Trust: +15 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (46) 2940 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
2. DarkStar_ (Trust: +36 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (29) 1006 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
3. IconFirm (Trust: neutral) (33 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
4. Steamtyme (Trust: +4 / =1 / -0) (1077 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

Source: LoyceV's Trust list viewer.
Get your own Trust list in BBCode at loyce.club/trust.

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September 26, 2019, 03:45:27 PM
 #38

Source: LoyceV's Trust list viewer.
Get your own Trust list in BBCode at loyce.club/trust.

I have edited my initial post, noticing my mistake. Still, the logic stands.
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October 13, 2019, 03:28:38 PM
 #39

More data please OP.
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October 15, 2019, 01:19:55 AM
 #40

Statistics don't lie, but they may mislead our simple monkey brains.
What if - hear me out on this - users posted less, yes, but as a result of the signature ban, they started posting more cautiously and in turn started posting higher-quality posts?
Or maybe they just went off, created a new account and used that one while keeping the banned one as a backup. They could also use that for thread bumping services thus making things even worse. I always find it amusing when people see a positive result cause that's their bias, as opposed to looking for negative ones.

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