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Author Topic: be.open & Sancho18 - bounty cheaters.  (Read 2209 times)
MFahad
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October 15, 2019, 05:52:46 PM
 #21

Let me remind you that thanks to the presumption of innocence, I do not need to prove anything. I have a son, he is 17, there is a possibility that I am telling the truth and this is really so. I ask you to adhere to the principles of fair justice and interpret this opportunity in my favor.

Other accounts (Kutkh, Prod, Bonanzabits) also do not belong to me. There is insufficient evidence that I managed them.

You want your case to be in your favor by the  "presumption of innocence" principle.
A quick definition for this is :

Quote
The presumption of innocence is the legal principle that one is considered innocent unless proven guilty.

But in your case KTChampions has already proven you guilty with an evidence and now you have to provide an evidence to deny him.
Are you a DT member yourself or are you just typing messages in your signature campaign here? Please do not waste my time unless you are a decision maker.

In addition to the presumption of innocence, my line of defense also draws on this precedent. The evidentiary value of the charge is insufficient.



I am just showing you the mirror and the truth is bitter.  Anyways your decision has already been taken.  Smiley  Good Luck

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October 15, 2019, 05:57:14 PM
Last edit: October 15, 2019, 06:08:49 PM by be.open
 #22

Anyways your decision has already been taken.  Smiley  Good Luck
The decision made is hasty and erroneous, and does not take into account the circumstances I have provided here. Tnx.

ps I consider the topic title to be offensive and untrue, it casts a shadow on my reputation a priori. Please change it from affirmative to interrogative. Otherwise, after the explanations I have already made, this statement turns into slander.

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October 15, 2019, 06:31:51 PM
 #23

Anyways your decision has already been taken.  Smiley  Good Luck
The decision made is hasty and erroneous, and does not take into account the circumstances I have provided here. Tnx.

ps I consider the topic title to be offensive and untrue, it casts a shadow on my reputation a priori. Please change it from affirmative to interrogative. Otherwise, after the explanations I have already made, this statement turns into slander.

You see the thing here is the accounts connected to you are either your son or your friend's account all of which have we heard before. Like I said in my previous post aside from the ETH address connecting you two and the telegram account (Sancho) being used to your account there are also evidence that you are doing merit trading with other. If you really want to come clean with your tag I think you need to convince the DT member that you are two persons and not just one person having two accounts abusing the campaign.

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October 15, 2019, 06:56:32 PM
 #24

Anyways your decision has already been taken.  Smiley  Good Luck
The decision made is hasty and erroneous, and does not take into account the circumstances I have provided here. Tnx.

ps I consider the topic title to be offensive and untrue, it casts a shadow on my reputation a priori. Please change it from affirmative to interrogative. Otherwise, after the explanations I have already made, this statement turns into slander.

You see the thing here is the accounts connected to you are either your son or your friend's account all of which have we heard before. Like I said in my previous post aside from the ETH address connecting you two and the telegram account (Sancho) being used to your account there are also evidence that you are doing merit trading with other. If you really want to come clean with your tag I think you need to convince the DT member that you are two persons and not just one person having two accounts abusing the campaign.
Suggest a reasonable option on how can I do this. If you offer a deliberately unrealizable solution, then you should not even start doing it.

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October 15, 2019, 07:01:08 PM
Merited by be.open (1)
 #25

Sancho is my son’s account, now he is 17

We've heard these types of excuses so many times they get harder and harder to believe after a while.  If my son was on this forum I would have had some interaction with him on the forum that would make it obvious that we are close, or made a public declaration of our relationship at some point in time.  Too often these excuses are given by accounts that appear to have avoided any indication that "they know each other" and then all of the sudden, once an address or a social media account is connected to both accounts these types of excuses come out.

Perhaps I can enter a video chat on whatsapp with one of the DT members and show my passport, in which there is an entry about the presence of my son, born in 2002.

I'm not sure that would really help.  All that would prove is that you indeed have a 17 year-old son.  Unless you and your son can join the video chat together.  In that case identification wouldn't really be necessary, in my opinion.  By your local time setting it looks like you are in central Asia.  Maybe you can convince LoyceV to participate in video call with you and your son.  He's in western Europe, so your time zones are close.

I'm really sorry for you finding yourself in this situation.  Both be.open and Sancho seem like decent folks.  Helpful, contributing the forum, and not your typical shit-posting bounty spammers.  I want to believe you, but short of convincing a DT member that you are two different people you're reputation will suffer as a result of this.  Good luck.


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October 15, 2019, 07:28:12 PM
 #26

Perhaps I can enter a video chat on whatsapp with one of the DT members and show my passport, in which there is an entry about the presence of my son, born in 2002.
I'm not sure that would really help.  All that would prove is that you indeed have a 17 year-old son.  Unless you and your son can join the video chat together.  In that case identification wouldn't really be necessary, in my opinion.  By your local time setting it looks like you are in central Asia.  Maybe you can convince LoyceV to participate in video call with you and your son.
Maggiordome brought me here, so I'll respond quickly: I'm not going to do any video chat, because that's almost as bad as doxing myself.
I had a very long day and I'm far too tired to look into the details, but if I have some time tomorrow, I'll share my opinion on this case.

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October 15, 2019, 08:22:08 PM
 #27

I'm not going to do any video chat, because that's almost as bad as doxing myself.

I was wondering how that could be done without sharing your real phone number, which is how Whatsapp works.  Telegram and Keybase don't offer video chat, and I don't know of any anonymous chat service that does. 

I wouldn't do that either, and I'm sorry for dragging you into this.  If I was a similar situation as be.open you're one of the few people I would trust with my proof.

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October 16, 2019, 03:53:49 AM
Last edit: October 16, 2019, 04:40:53 AM by be.open
 #28

Sancho is my son’s account, now he is 17

We've heard these types of excuses so many times they get harder and harder to believe after a while.  If my son was on this forum I would have had some interaction with him on the forum that would make it obvious that we are close, or made a public declaration of our relationship at some point in time.  Too often these excuses are given by accounts that appear to have avoided any indication that "they know each other" and then all of the sudden, once an address or a social media account is connected to both accounts these types of excuses come out.
My son and I did not advertise our family relationship on the forum, because I simply did not see the need for this. It would be really necessary if we wanted to participate in the same bounty campaign at the same time, but we did not want to do this. Initially, the rules of our competitive game were such that we choose different campaigns, otherwise the whole point of the competition disappears. We did not have a goal to earn as much as possible. The educational goal was to learn how to choose the best among many campaigns. This is a really valuable skill and I myself have learned a lot. And my son turned out to be better than me and I am very proud of him, he made amazing progress over these two years!

Sancho is my son’s account, now he is 17
Perhaps I can enter a video chat on whatsapp with one of the DT members and show my passport, in which there is an entry about the presence of my son, born in 2002.

I'm not sure that would really help.  All that would prove is that you indeed have a 17 year-old son.  Unless you and your son can join the video chat together.  In that case identification wouldn't really be necessary, in my opinion.  By your local time setting it looks like you are in central Asia.  Maybe you can convince LoyceV to participate in video call with you and your son.  He's in western Europe, so your time zones are close.
I think this can also be done. However, will this convince hostile skeptics? The need to prove something here puts me in a disadvantageous position, because one can always say that it’s not enough. And my son and I will already be deanonymized, and in the Central Asian region this may have negative consequences for both of us in the future. That’s why I called on the presumption of innocence to help and argue that the evidence against me is insufficient. Better to justify the guilty than to convict the innocent, isn't it?
I'm really sorry for you finding yourself in this situation.  Both be.open and Sancho seem like decent folks.  Helpful, contributing the forum, and not your typical shit-posting bounty spammers.  I want to believe you, but short of convincing a DT member that you are two different people you're reputation will suffer as a result of this.  Good luck.
Tnx.

I'm not going to do any video chat, because that's almost as bad as doxing myself.

I was wondering how that could be done without sharing your real phone number, which is how Whatsapp works.  Telegram and Keybase don't offer video chat, and I don't know of any anonymous chat service that does.  
If this really helps, I am ready to do it on Skype.

I am ready to show my face to protect my reputation. I am ready to enter into an open dialogue. And I want to see the face of the one who judges me. How can I trust a person who hides his face? I don’t think there will be any problems with this, bitcoin has a lot of evangelists all over the world and for sure one of them is on the DT list. Right? I guarantee that I will be a polite and pleasant conversationalist, it is in my interests.

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October 16, 2019, 05:02:09 AM
Merited by CryptopreneurBrainboss (1)
 #29

I am ready to show my face to protect my reputation. I am ready to enter into an open dialogue. And I want to see the face of the one who judges me. How can I trust a person who hides his face? I don’t think there will be any problems with this, bitcoin has a lot of evangelists all over the world and for sure one of them is on the DT list. Right? I guarantee that I will be a polite and pleasant conversationalist, it is in my interests.

Even ignoring privacy concerns, I don't think anybody would (or should) do it. It's impossible to prove that two accounts are not controlled by the same person. Even if we see two people on a video call it doesn't mean anything. You could ask someone - even your real son - to support your story but it's just not possible to actually prove it. So I don't think it's worth it for any DT member to get involved in this. They would be essentially vouching for something that they can't reliably verify.

So it really comes down to your own credibility. It looks like right now the opinions are kinda split on that. You don't seem to have any particular financial gain from this alleged sockpuppeting. If what you're saying is true you can probably earn you reputation back the hard way - by staying on the forum and contributing to it. If it's not true - I guess you'd just leave the forum or become a disgruntled troll Smiley

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October 16, 2019, 06:05:39 AM
Last edit: October 16, 2019, 07:47:45 AM by be.open
 #30

I am ready to show my face to protect my reputation. I am ready to enter into an open dialogue. And I want to see the face of the one who judges me. How can I trust a person who hides his face? I don’t think there will be any problems with this, bitcoin has a lot of evangelists all over the world and for sure one of them is on the DT list. Right? I guarantee that I will be a polite and pleasant conversationalist, it is in my interests.

Even ignoring privacy concerns, I don't think anybody would (or should) do it. It's impossible to prove that two accounts are not controlled by the same person. Even if we see two people on a video call it doesn't mean anything. You could ask someone - even your real son - to support your story but it's just not possible to actually prove it. So I don't think it's worth it for any DT member to get involved in this. They would be essentially vouching for something that they can't reliably verify.
As you can see, I simply have no chance to prove my point. That is why in a fair justice system there is a presumption of innocence and the burden of proof rests with the prosecution.

So it really comes down to your own credibility. It looks like right now the opinions are kinda split on that. You don't seem to have any particular financial gain from this alleged sockpuppeting. If what you're saying is true you can probably earn you reputation back the hard way - by staying on the forum and contributing to it. If it's not true - I guess you'd just leave the forum or become a disgruntled troll Smiley
I believe in bitcoin and crypto, this is the future, so I'm here. And the hard way doesn't scare me - fewer competitors. The question is about the unjust punishment for an imperfect act. The issue of libel against me, which in all jurisdictions is considered a crime (and my lawyer like a hungry pitbull  Smiley). The question is the adequacy of the entire trust system, which imposes a penalty, ignoring the presumption of innocence. And these are just my personal questions.

And there is still a problem with my son. Which is very cool as a bounty hunter, and from whom his favorite toy was taken. Just see how good he is. Probably best. You as a father let this down on the brakes? As they say, "I killed for less". Smiley

This is a trifle matter, why complicate it? Even if there was a mistake (and it didn’t exist), this is not a gross system violation in order to chop off in a rush. I call for prudence and everyone will benefit from this.


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October 16, 2019, 07:25:37 AM
Merited by be.open (1), taikuri13 (1)
 #31

To the accused, just try appealing the tag from those that have tagged you. As you can see not many DT members are interested in this matter because issue like this bring about double standard in the community. Here's a similar situation (supposedly worst than yours) that the accused (in this scenario) was just left with a warning (Neutral feedback) and so far it has turned out to be the right decision to have been made; [need DT] using multiple account, trading merit, self-talking, trading trust. Get those that tagged you to come into the discussion and appeal your tagged.

Putting into consideration, Sancho18 has (357 merit, 250 airdrop, 99 earned 8 recieved from alt) I would suggest this case should be a forgiveable one. The accused has earned almost 100 merit meaning he's quite a decent poster to have earned that much so unless there are more alts supplying the account with merit he should just be left with a warning (Neutral tagged). The other account only recieved 1 merit in return.

PS: More investigate can be performed on the case and if this is the only offend then he should be given a second chance like others with far more worst offends has recieved considering they all have decent forum activity records and not some bounty/spam/shit posters




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October 16, 2019, 07:54:46 AM
Last edit: October 16, 2019, 08:08:50 AM by be.open
 #32

To the accused, just try appealing the tag from those that have tagged you.
Perhaps there is a motive for personal revenge, which of course does not adorn the current member of the DT. I do not deny her services to the forum in clearing scam, but the vector of her activity is destructive and fraught with professional deformation, when even decent people seem to be scammers. This happens. I like her, but there may be a case of abuse of power.

PS: More investigate can be performed on the case and if this is the only offend then he should be given a second chance like others with far more worst offends has recieved considering they all have decent forum activity records and not some bounty/spam/shit posters
The history of my posts is in my profile, welcome. I think topic starter tried very hard to find at least something. However, some other mistake may emerge or may be two, it is possible. I am not a robot and I can be wrong, the right to make a mistake is one of the most important for humans. This does not negate that I tried as hard as possible to fair play and taught my son the same thing. Tnx.

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October 16, 2019, 08:09:02 AM
Merited by KTChampions (1), lovesmayfamilis (1)
 #33

To the accused, just try appealing the tag from those that have tagged you.
Perhaps there is a motive for personal revenge, which of course does not adorn the current member of the DT. I do not deny her services to the forum in clearing scam, but the vector of her activity is destructive and fraught with professional deformation, when even decent people seem to be scammers. This happens.
If you look at the date of the message that you called personal revenge, you will easily see a contradiction. This post was published on September 7th.
And on September 14, lovesmayfamilis puts you on its trust list. From which she removed you last week.
Where is the logic in your words? Stop blaming her.

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October 16, 2019, 08:21:27 AM
Last edit: October 16, 2019, 08:58:33 AM by be.open
 #34

To the accused, just try appealing the tag from those that have tagged you.
Perhaps there is a motive for personal revenge, which of course does not adorn the current member of the DT. I do not deny her services to the forum in clearing scam, but the vector of her activity is destructive and fraught with professional deformation, when even decent people seem to be scammers. This happens.
If you look at the date of the message that you called personal revenge, you will easily see a contradiction. This post was published on September 7th.
And on September 14, lovesmayfamilis puts you on its trust list. From which she removed you last week.
Where is the logic in your words? Stop blaming her.
You seem not very experienced with women. This is called "aroused and not fucked", a woman can forgive a lot, but not that. There is definitely logic in this, you just need to understand people more deeply. Smiley

Code:
September 7 - I hooked her
September 14 - She is agree
And nothing more
Bingo, the recipe for motive for personal revenge is ready.

I think the decision about the negative tag was impulsively made by a disappointed wet pussy. Perhaps that is why the more sane members of the DT are in no hurry to support.

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October 16, 2019, 08:56:45 AM
 #35

The first message you refer to have nothing to do with my attitude towards you. I did not know you. Later, you began to appear more on the topic of the reputation of the Russian section. Yes, I added you to my trust list, and therefore took the responsibility to tag you. You cannot be loved by everyone, and I try to adhere to the rules of the forum. I meet these stories about brothers and sisters very often. And all your manner of communicating with people, with the admission of your own guilt, does not inspire me to remove the tag.

I also gave you merits.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5105163.msg52422322#msg52422322
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5105163.msg52401597#msg52401597

Tell me why? There are my posts that sound positive in your direction. You say this was a preparation for revenge?  You are nobody to me, and I see a lot of people like you on the forum. I have uncovered many fraudulent projects. Was it my revenge on everyone? Dear, do not exaggerate your significance.


I think the decision about the negative tag was made a wet cunt, which is probably why the more sane members of DT are in no hurry to support.

Don't you think this is very rude?
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October 16, 2019, 08:57:18 AM
 #36

Perhaps there is a motive for personal revenge, which of course does not adorn the current member of the DT. I do not deny her services to the forum in clearing scam, but the vector of her activity is destructive and fraught with professional deformation, when even decent people seem to be scammers. This happens.
If you look at the date of the message that you called personal revenge, you will easily see a contradiction. This post was published on September 7th.
And on September 14, lovesmayfamilis puts you on its trust list. From which she removed you last week.
Where is the logic in your words? Stop blaming her.
You seem not very experienced with women. This is called "aroused and not fucked", a woman can forgive a lot, but not that. There is definitely logic in this, you just need to understand people more deeply. Smiley

Code:
September 7 - I hooked her
September 14 - She is agree
And nothing more
Bingo, the recipe for motive for personal revenge is ready.

I think the decision about the negative tag was made a wet cunt, which is probably why the more sane members of DT are in no hurry to support.
In my opinion, you have chosen the wrong defense tactics. You understand that the final solution to your question will depend on lovesmayfamilis, but you continue to blame and insult her. This has no prospects for resolving the situation.

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October 16, 2019, 09:03:19 AM
Last edit: October 16, 2019, 09:18:21 AM by be.open
 #37

Don't you think this is very rude?
I just call a spade a spade and I think it's true. Don’t pout, honey.
 
In my opinion, you have chosen the wrong defense tactics. You understand that the final solution to your question will depend on lovesmayfamilis, but you continue to blame and insult her. This has no prospects for resolving the situation.
There are two effective strategies if I want to resolve this issue positively. And one of them is to remove lovesmayfamilis from the list of DT for abuse of power on the grounds of personal revenge. I am a man of action and try to work out all the options. I do not like to just wait for mercy.

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October 16, 2019, 09:13:10 AM
 #38

Have you forgotten how to read? What is personal revenge? You are nobody to me. The most common user that I mistakenly entered on my trust list, relying on your decency. What I regret now. You are not worth it.
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October 16, 2019, 09:22:43 AM
Last edit: October 16, 2019, 09:48:13 AM by be.open
 #39

Have you forgotten how to read? What is personal revenge? You are nobody to me. The most common user that I mistakenly entered on my trust list, relying on your decency. What I regret now. You are not worth it.
Glad we resumed our dialogue. I did not deserve to be punished, and with your head you know that. I disappointed you, it happens. But that does not make me and my son a bounty cheater. Please be prudent, cancel your tag and go to peace.

ps And you're still on my trust list. Because I don’t act like a little offended girl. Correct your mistake and do not bury yourself even deeper.

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October 16, 2019, 11:02:02 AM
 #40

To the accused, just try appealing the tag from those that have tagged you.
Perhaps there is a motive for personal revenge, which of course does not adorn the current member of the DT.

Here's an advice buddy don't try to point fingers or play the victim game. Tagging you isn't a wrong decision as the evidence provided above is enough reasons to back that. Many others have ruined their account due to same offends you committed and be mindful of your use of words because you might just draw more attention of other DT members to this situation. The attitude you display towards resolving you case matters alot not forgetting we're mostly humans here.

@Lovesmayfamilis feedback isn't wrong whether it's a personal attack or not. Understand that and appeal your tagged reasonably.




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